From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 00:15:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 22:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] I'm a published author 8-) In-Reply-To: <20010831174126.V23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: > Nah, carefully reviewed those before I started here. If its not Broadwing > proprietary/confidential information, they dont care. I specifically asked > about this before I got the job (re: sunhelp) and they said that one of the > reasons I got the interview was because the guys here had used sunhelp. 8-) Sounds much better than Sun in that respect. Since members of my group have access to all sorts of nasty stuff, we have to be careful what we say, and we cannot (I believe) give interviews. Very different for me, as I was often called upon to do that while @ NCGR. -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 00:27:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 01:27:48 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: nuking from orbit In-Reply-To: <0e3f01c1325a$d97f2b40$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <200108311553.f7VFrJS19385@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> <0dda01c13242$776ce4a0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010831144658.C5614@cs.millersville.edu> <20010831144602.A28412@zilla.nu> <0e3f01c1325a$d97f2b40$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010901012748.B13243@cs.millersville.edu> On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 04:23:46PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > I'd love to see him do proper footnotes and other pagination concerns in > HTML. > > > > Why should it be a problem? > > You know - I suppose it could be, but only if you care what page you're on. > I can't remember the last time I needed to insert a page number in a > document (or footnote/footer/etc). For one thing, because professors can be finiky. > Besides - I'm *confident* it could be done with a need little research on my > part. I put a little (2-3 hours) research into it and couldn't figure it out. Hence why I learned LaTeX. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 00:31:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 01:31:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] LART! LART! LART! ($*%@ kids) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010901013141.C13243@cs.millersville.edu> On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 11:45:13PM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > > God help me if I catch this kid take aim again. I'm just sick enough to > give him a multiple BB enema. BBs are for small animals. Kids aren't that small. Perhaps something larger? -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 09:14:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 10:14:54 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Q: MegaSwitch 10/100 switches... Message-ID: <001601c132f0$834595c0$0301a8c0@kensportege> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C132CE.F1ED5840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Computer Geeks has several hubs and switches from Nbase, like a 12 port = 10/100 expandable/managed switches for $49 - any opinions/exp with = these? See: http://www.compgeeks.com/products.asp?cat=3DNET#Networking%20Hubs http://www.kmj.com/nbase/nbase.html They look good, but I would prefer some advice (these would be for home = use, and my question is how would these be compared with, say, Linksys = etherfast switches?)... Thanks, Ken ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C132CE.F1ED5840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Computer Geeks has several hubs and = switches from=20 Nbase, like a 12 port 10/100 expandable/managed switches for $49 - any=20 opinions/exp with these?
 
See:
    http://www.compgeeks.com/products.asp?cat=3DNET#Networking%20Hubs
 
    http://www.kmj.com/nbase/nba= se.html
 
They look good, but I would prefer some = advice=20 (these would be for home use, and my question is how would these be = compared=20 with, say, Linksys etherfast switches?)...
 
Thanks,
 
Ken
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C132CE.F1ED5840-- From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 12:16:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 13:16:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Q: MegaSwitch 10/100 switches... In-Reply-To: <001601c132f0$834595c0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: > > See: > http://www.compgeeks.com/products.asp?cat=NET#Networking%20Hubs > > http://www.kmj.com/nbase/nbase.html > > They look good, but I would prefer some advice (these would be for home use, and my question is how would these be compared with, say, Linksys etherfast switches?)... I'm not sure about these units, but the bigger (Chassis based...144 ports) NBase switches I used to sell were pretty rock solid and fast. Nbase seems to make a pretty good product. From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 17:39:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 15:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Best place for sun RAM? Message-ID: Got a failed 64M dimm for an ultra (501-2480). Anybody know a good place to pick up a replacement? -Pete ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 18:02:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 18:02:48 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Best place for sun RAM? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010901180248.N23531@mrbill.net> On Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 03:39:54PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > Got a failed 64M dimm for an ultra (501-2480). Anybody know a good place > to pick up a replacement? MemoryX, or your workplace. 8-) (dude, warranty replace it!) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 18:14:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 19:14:38 EDT Subject: [geeks] Sun FDDI Cards Message-ID: <20010901231513.HAFQ23328.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> I've got in my last batch of 20x Sun PCI FDDI Cards. $20/piece shipped or trades. Thanks Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 18:35:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 16:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Q: MegaSwitch 10/100 switches... In-Reply-To: <001601c132f0$834595c0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: Looks like that is actually an 8-port switch for $49, which isn't bad... -P ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." On Sat, 1 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > Computer Geeks has several hubs and switches from Nbase, like a 12 port 10/100 expandable/managed switches for $49 - any opinions/exp with these? > > See: > http://www.compgeeks.com/products.asp?cat=NET#Networking%20Hubs > > http://www.kmj.com/nbase/nbase.html > > They look good, but I would prefer some advice (these would be for home use, and my question is how would these be compared with, say, Linksys etherfast switches?)... > > Thanks, > > Ken > From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 19:21:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 00:21:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] LART! LART! LART! ($*%@ kids) In-Reply-To: <20010901013141.C13243@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Sep 2001, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > BBs are for small animals. Kids aren't that small. Perhaps something > larger? You're right. I should go get some paintball gear. Anyone want to loan me some LN2? >:-) ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 20:50:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 21:50:44 -0400 Subject: [geeks] LART! LART! LART! ($*%@ kids) References: Message-ID: <0fae01c13351$b0cc2160$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > On Sat, 1 Sep 2001, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > BBs are for small animals. Kids aren't that small. Perhaps something > > larger? > > You're right. I should go get some paintball gear. Anyone want to loan me > some LN2? >:-) > Wahooo! I'd offer to loan you one of my paintball guns, but lately the local vermin have been diggin up my lawn - need all the firepower I have. I'm very proud of the low-buck tactical light and laser sight I modded onto my gun. Makes shooting pests at night actually fun, instead of the previous excersises in soiled underwear.... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 21:07:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 21:07:46 -0500 Subject: [geeks] LART! LART! LART! ($*%@ kids) In-Reply-To: <0fae01c13351$b0cc2160$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <0fae01c13351$b0cc2160$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010901210746.Q23531@mrbill.net> On Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 09:50:44PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > I'm very proud of the low-buck tactical light and laser sight I modded onto > my gun. Makes shooting pests at night actually fun, instead of the previous > excersises in soiled underwear.... What I need is an IR LED (like one of those ultra-bright LED keychain lights; I bought a blue one at frys today) and a night vision sight.. "never saw me comin" Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 21:38:29 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 02:38:29 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] LART! LART! LART! ($*%@ kids) In-Reply-To: <20010901210746.Q23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > What I need is an IR LED (like one of those ultra-bright LED > keychain lights; I bought a blue one at frys today) and a night > vision sight.. I've been harboring the idea for the perfect security system: A series of IR emitters all over the place, a few motion sensors, a few IR sensitive cameras, and a few good VCRs. Oh, and a H&K PSG-1 or a Barrett. The motion sensors would alert the owner of the premises to a problem, the owner would then covertly prop himself into a window with the barrel out, videotape rolling. Catch the thief coming out of [my] vehichle with full hands, and put one (I would have said "in", but those are .50 cal rifles) through his head. The getaway driver would probably try to drive away [bonus: newbies would be simultaneously filling thier pants], but since [the getaway driver] has not done anything, there's no point in nailing him. Would just make the situation far more messy [legally]. I'm sure the victim^Wthief's parents would be *thrilled* to have to find out what happened to the other half of thier child's skull. [This does not imply that we've been having lots of problems with neighboorhood kids -- just that most "perps" are juveniles "who don't know any better".] Never know what hit 'em. I need to move to Texas for more than one reason right about now. :) PS: Do Texan families reinforce the values that You Leave Your Neighboor's Stuff Alone or [condition] Happens To You? (Where [condition] equals [parental action] and/or [they shoot].) Hi TLA's; I'm glad you've decided to join the conversation. No, I'm not going to go off and kill people, just protect my land. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 21:47:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 02:47:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Daytime TV Message-ID: So I accidentally caught a episode of "Ricki" (*wharf!*) in which some parents from two popular races were moaning and complainting that thier kids didn't know right from wrong. *Shock* was when these kids were playing with guns and put them down as they heard noise outside the door. The second time they sat back down, one of them got back up and wiped his fingerprints off the gun. The kid was 10. Parents blamed TV. Q: So why when overpriviledged white kids go off the rail do they get assault weapons and open up on the place? A: Because, if their parents had tought them proper respect for firearms, they'd presumably have better marksmanship and not need the extra lead to compensate. Glad I went to a hick high school. Never had a problem with guns; probably a good thing. A few of the folks I know of would run for the parking lot and come back with a toolbox full of scatterguns. (He liked to go hunting afterschool.) That's if someone were *stupid* enough to point a gun at them and they couldn't take it from them by sheer force or razor-sharp pocket-knife. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 22:22:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 23:22:01 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Daytime TV References: Message-ID: <0fd201c1335e$719531f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > fingerprints off the gun. The kid was 10. Parents blamed TV. > I blame the parents. There isn't an excuse - as the one responsible for introducing the offspring into the world, you are the one responsible for ensuring their proper functioning within it. To blame something on TV is to admit that you have no idea how to raise a child, and shouldn't have attempted it to begin with. To paraphrase Adam Corolla - the problem with society today is that all these fucked up people are having fucked up kids, who are having fucked up kids - and an alarming number of people think it's okay! Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 22:37:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 23:37:40 -0400 Subject: [geeks] LART! LART! LART! ($*%@ kids) References: Message-ID: <0fd601c13360$a1c035d0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > I've been harboring the idea for the perfect security system: A series of > IR emitters all over the place, a few motion sensors, a few IR > sensitive cameras, and a few good VCRs. Oh, and a H&K PSG-1 or a Barrett. > I personally prefer (and have) a Bennelli with 00 shot or an un-sabotted slug. Talk about damage! I don't know about actual killing, but removing a portion of an extremity would be easy with such a thing. I know from experience that simply racking the shotgungun and chambering a round is enough to make a thief wet their pants. Imagine it, you've got the slim-jim in the door, fiddling with the lock, almost got it >click< there it is! Reach in, grab for the trunk realease and...... **shalock-lock** followed by "I'm pretty sure you want to do exactly what I tell you". Automatic shotguns are nice for firing off quick successions of rounds, but nothing says "I love you" like the sound of a pump action shotgun. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 22:37:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael S. Schiller) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 23:37:51 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Daytime TV References: <0fd201c1335e$719531f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <3B91A98F.C4365733@agrijag.com> Is it just me, or does anyone else here not see the problem with wiping fingerprints off of a gun? I don't know, whenever somebody hands me their gun to checkout I ALWAYS wipe my fingerprints off of the gun, never know what that person might do (or did) with that gun! I must be a bad parent, when my kid was having trouble with kids picking fights with her I calmly explained that if somebody hits her, she should casually stomp them into the ground, but that she shouldn't get caught doing so. Of course the school said she should 'tell' on anyone hitting her. I told her it's better to handle it herself than running off to the authorities. Maybe this is why I now live in the backwoods of TN where this sort of thing is expected. -Mike Kurt Huhn wrote: > > fingerprints off the gun. The kid was 10. Parents blamed TV. > > > > I blame the parents. There isn't an excuse - as the one responsible for > introducing the offspring into the world, you are the one responsible for > ensuring their proper functioning within it. > > To blame something on TV is to admit that you have no idea how to raise a > child, and shouldn't have attempted it to begin with. > > To paraphrase Adam Corolla - the problem with society today is that all > these fucked up people are having fucked up kids, who are having fucked up > kids - and an alarming number of people think it's okay! > > Kurt > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 22:41:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 23:41:51 -0400 Subject: [geeks] LART! LART! LART! ($*%@ kids) References: <0fae01c13351$b0cc2160$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010901210746.Q23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <0fdc01c13361$37171b30$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > What I need is an IR LED (like one of those ultra-bright LED > keychain lights; I bought a blue one at frys today) and a night > vision sight.. > Part of the low-buck tactical upgrade was a sapphire blue LED light. It makes *all* the difference in the world. I really wanted the turquoise blue - but Target was out of those. Maybe next time. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 22:57:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 03:57:58 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] LART! LART! LART! ($*%@ kids) In-Reply-To: <0fd601c13360$a1c035d0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > I know from experience that simply racking the shotgungun and chambering a > round is enough to make a thief wet their pants. Imagine it, you've got the > slim-jim in the door, fiddling with the lock, almost got it >click< there it > is! Reach in, grab for the trunk realease and...... **shalock-lock** > followed by "I'm pretty sure you want to do exactly what I tell you". > > Automatic shotguns are nice for firing off quick successions of rounds, but > nothing says "I love you" like the sound of a pump action shotgun. Me and a friend were talking about this the other day and he brought up the pump-action shotgun as well. Yeah, show 'em the love. I fully intend to terminate the life of anyone leaving my car with my stuff without my permission. Not a moment before though. I want clear evidence. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 23:14:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 05:14:08 +0100 Subject: Firearms safety ;-) was RE: [geeks] Daytime TV In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c13365$cafa7690$e6ae7dc2@dataedge.ie> Here's an important lesson, never get within arms reach of a man who you are threatening with a gun. I've had to take firearms away from people twice, both rather unpleasant sets of circumstances. The first was when I was riding my quad in a local woodland area with a sand/gravel pit. We had stopped for a rest and all of a sudden heard a LOT of what sounded like 22 shots from fairly near by. So anyway we put on our helmets and are getting ready to go investigate and THWAP, I get hit in the extreme upper left thigh (read: My ARSE!) by what at the time felt like a wasp sting, but turns out was a subsonic 22 round (no penetration, just a surface pop with a nasty bruise and a little subsurface hemoraging. Thank god for heavy duty riding pants). Needless to say I was more than a little bit pissed. So we started shouting to announce ourselves, and circled around the place we thought they were firing from to come from their rear. It was these two drunken morons playing with their AMT lightning's (a relatively cheap .22 that looks a lot like a Ruger 10/22 and a bit like a Mini 14 like they used on the A-Team. When they still made folding stock versions they were very popular with morons and gang kids). They had just gotten a pair of those multi trigger things you see advertised in the back of survivalist magazines and had emptied a few 30 round banana magazines in our general direction before we got to them. As we approached they were complaining because they thought the subsonic rounds would sound like a shot from a silenced weapon. By this time I was well passed pissed and into that stage of anger that only comes when you are fully prepared to remove the burden of life from some truly deserving soul. I removed my helmet and gloves, and walked up to one of the individuals in question, and very quietly but firmly asked him to give me the weapon. Being a drunken idiot he didn't notice the danger inherent in the situation, and actually started the motion to point the rifle at me. Before his hand moved more than an inch I palm heel struck his nose, axe knucked his trach and twisted the rifle out of his hand, breaking his wrist and index finger in the process. His idiot friend started moving toward me but thought better of it, dropped his rifle and his beer, and ran off. We didn't even bother with the police. I was fine though I had a bit of trouble riding the bike back after the excitement wore off, and to be honest I didn't really care if moron #1 was or not (he was, but I did break his nose). Of course I violated some pretty basic survival rules in even getting near them, but I wasn't thinking about it at the time. The first rule: never enter an armed confrontation angry or emotionally distressed I was very angry, and it made me behave stupidly. The second rule: never bring a fist to a gunfight i.e. never enter an armed confrontation without parity of arms The late great Bill Jordan said it in his great book "no second place winner", 'His mistake was simple. He brought a pistol to a rifle fight'. Jeff Cooper later rephrased it as 'never bring a pistol to a rifle fight'. Even more relevant to this situation is a quote from Det. Jim Cirillo, the person who has survived the most police gunfights of anyone in the 20th century 'the first rule of gunfighting is, have a gun'. I had a gun, several actually, but not with me, and I was EXTREMELY STUPID to approach an armed man without myself being armed. The third rule: The three I's. Never under any circumstances approach an armed adversary who is irrational, incapacitated (mentally), or intoxicated. Had I followed those three rules I would certainly have been in far less danger, but I was VERY ANGRY, and disregarded the first rule, putting me into a situation where I inevitably violated rules two and three. Oh, and my friend and I liked our new rifles just fine. The second time I had to take a firearm away from someone was a bit more unpleasant. A female friend of mine had been raped by her ex-boyfriend. I am generally a peaceful person but rape is one of the very few things that makes me angry, and I took exception to this little boy in a mans body's continued existence, rather vocally and in a public place. He of course found out about my comments and decided to do something about them. He got himself quite drunk one night and came to my apartment. When I opened the door he shoved a pistol into my chest. At the time I was living in Prescott, Arizona where Ruger has a manufacturing facility (though not I believe for pistols. Those are all made in Hartford I think) and this pistol happened to be Ruger P90, a weapon I am very familiar with. There were two things working in my favor in this situation. 1. The P90 is a single/double action pistol with a heavy DA pull of between 12 and 14 pounds. The hammer was down. 2. The P90, like most auto pistols using a tilting link lockup system, will generally misfire if the slide is moved back even 1/8th of an inch from lock. This badboy pushed the pistol into my chest very hard and the slide was definitely pushed back more than that. I grabbed his wrist and stuck the underside of his elbow, breaking it rather nastily and causing him to drop the weapon. Then I broke his nose, knocked him to the ground and elbow dropped onto his sternum cracking it, and several of his ribs. Once again I felt no need to involve the police. A few friends and I brought him out into the high desert around Prescott Valley and found a nice stone wall with some broken bottle tops embedded into it... lets just say he wont ever be raping anyone else. I'm guessing he had a hard time getting home without his clothes or shoes, but I don't rightly know. In Arizona they definitely have ideas about how to deal with rapists, so there never was any fallout about it. Chris Byrne -----Original Message----- From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf Of Kris Kirby Sent: 02 September 2001 03:48 To: geeks at sunhelp.org Subject: [geeks] Daytime TV So I accidentally caught a episode of "Ricki" (*wharf!*) in which some parents from two popular races were moaning and complainting that thier kids didn't know right from wrong. *Shock* was when these kids were playing with guns and put them down as they heard noise outside the door. The second time they sat back down, one of them got back up and wiped his fingerprints off the gun. The kid was 10. Parents blamed TV. Q: So why when overpriviledged white kids go off the rail do they get assault weapons and open up on the place? A: Because, if their parents had tought them proper respect for firearms, they'd presumably have better marksmanship and not need the extra lead to compensate. Glad I went to a hick high school. Never had a problem with guns; probably a good thing. A few of the folks I know of would run for the parking lot and come back with a toolbox full of scatterguns. (He liked to go hunting afterschool.) That's if someone were *stupid* enough to point a gun at them and they couldn't take it from them by sheer force or razor-sharp pocket-knife. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." _______________________________________________ GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 23:16:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 00:16:50 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Daytime TV References: <0fd201c1335e$719531f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <3B91A98F.C4365733@agrijag.com> Message-ID: <0fea01c13366$19e45640$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > Is it just me, or does anyone else here not see the problem with wiping > fingerprints off of a gun? I don't know, whenever somebody hands me their gun > to checkout I ALWAYS wipe my fingerprints off of the gun, never know what > that person might do (or did) with that gun! Always prudent behavior - I was refering more to the parents assertion that whatever the kid did wasn't their (the parents) fault, that the TV made them do it. *That* is my problem. Granted - I don't know the activities of the children. But for a parent to disavow any responsibility for a childs actions is reprehensable. > > I must be a bad parent, when my kid was having trouble with kids picking > fights with her I calmly explained that if somebody hits her, she should > casually stomp them into the ground, but that she shouldn't get caught doing > so. Of course the school said she should 'tell' on anyone hitting her. I told I've got to agree here. My dad once told me - "don't pick fights, but if someone starts one with you, make sure you finish it." Words to live by. He also told me to own up to it if I got caught finishing a fight - personal responsibility and all. Now worries, you're doing the right thing as far as I'm concerned. Both my daughters will get the same upbringing as I did. Then again, my family is abunch of rednecks from West Virginia - same peoples as they have in TN, so maybe I'm not a good reinforcement to the point above :) Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 23:17:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael S. Schiller) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 00:17:53 -0400 Subject: [geeks] LART! LART! LART! ($*%@ kids) References: Message-ID: <3B91B2F1.A0000125@agrijag.com> Kris Kirby wrote: > On Sat, 1 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > Automatic shotguns are nice for firing off quick successions of rounds, but > > nothing says "I love you" like the sound of a pump action shotgun. > > Me and a friend were talking about this the other day and he brought up > the pump-action shotgun as well. Yeah, show 'em the love. > A few years ago I was driving a cab for a company who's office was in VERY bad section of Fort Lauderdale. I mean there's action on the street 24/7, always people out on the street doing whatever they're doing. Well one night about a dozen police cars pull up on this one corner, and this doesn't disturb the flow of everything else around it UNTIL one cop pulls out a pump shotgun, and cycles the action! I swear it looked like roaches running when the lights come on, in less than 2 seconds the street was deserted! -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 23:21:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 23:21:03 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Daytime TV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010901232102.S23531@mrbill.net> On Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 02:47:44AM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > Glad I went to a hick high school. Never had a problem with guns; probably > a good thing. A few of the folks I know of would run for the parking lot > and come back with a toolbox full of scatterguns. (He liked to go hunting > afterschool.) That's if someone were *stupid* enough to point a gun at > them and they couldn't take it from them by sheer force or razor-sharp > pocket-knife. I grew up in a fairly rural community. Closet of guns by the front door; thats where you put your (unloaded; the first thing taught was GUN SAFETY) shotgun and/or rifle when you walked in the door, with the birds in the other. 8-) My grandma's house (my mom lives there now) has a "mud room" bathroom DIRECTLY off the front door, so that people coming back covered in mud would clean up/disrobe before going further into the house. I grew up, also, with two parents who were both active duty police-persons. Before he retired, my dad was also working for the Dept. of Justice. We always had a LOT of guns around, but were taught respect, safety, and proper handling from DAY ONE, and there was NEVER a problem. Although it would get interesting; would come home, "Check out what I got today" and hand over something like a 357 snubnose or a 9mm auto. We'd look at it, "ooh, nice. good weight, crisp trigger pull; how's it shoot?" and hand it back. 8-) I dont currently own any guns, but thats more due to a lack of need than a desire... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 23:22:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 23:22:54 -0500 Subject: [geeks] LART! LART! LART! ($*%@ kids) In-Reply-To: References: <0fd601c13360$a1c035d0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010901232254.T23531@mrbill.net> On Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 03:57:58AM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > I fully intend to terminate the life of anyone leaving my car with my > stuff without my permission. Not a moment before though. I want clear > evidence. Personally, my car or anything that may be in it is not, personally, worth going through the hassle that would result from shooting someone. I might hold them there with the gun while someone called the cops, but a $15K Kia and maybe $50 worth of CDs or whatever junk computer I picked up that week, aint worth the legal hassle and/or "I killed someone" on my conscience. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 1 23:38:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 05:38:39 +0100 Subject: [geeks] LART! LART! LART! ($*%@ kids) In-Reply-To: <0fd601c13360$a1c035d0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <000401c13369$3a7fef10$e6ae7dc2@dataedge.ie> I have three words for ya my man 'BOOM Sha-lock-lock BOOM!!!' House of Pain, "Shamrocks and Shenanigans" Or even more to the point from NWA "Straight Outa Compton" 'When I'm called off, I got a sawed off, squeeze the trigger and bodies are hauled off, you too boy if you fuck with me, the police are gonna have to come and get me, off your ass' I used to have a pistol gripped Mossberg 590 with the cruiser pump 20" barrel and the two shot extender. I loaded it with some custom shells a local guy made using flechettes packed with flare powder. Nothing says I love you like a flaming 10" hole in your chest. Man I miss living in Arizona sometimes Chris Byrne -----Original Message----- From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf Of Kurt Huhn Sent: 02 September 2001 04:38 To: geeks at sunhelp.org Subject: Re: [geeks] LART! LART! LART! ($*%@ kids) > > I've been harboring the idea for the perfect security system: A series of > IR emitters all over the place, a few motion sensors, a few IR > sensitive cameras, and a few good VCRs. Oh, and a H&K PSG-1 or a Barrett. > I personally prefer (and have) a Bennelli with 00 shot or an un-sabotted slug. Talk about damage! I don't know about actual killing, but removing a portion of an extremity would be easy with such a thing. I know from experience that simply racking the shotgungun and chambering a round is enough to make a thief wet their pants. Imagine it, you've got the slim-jim in the door, fiddling with the lock, almost got it >click< there it is! Reach in, grab for the trunk realease and...... **shalock-lock** followed by "I'm pretty sure you want to do exactly what I tell you". Automatic shotguns are nice for firing off quick successions of rounds, but nothing says "I love you" like the sound of a pump action shotgun. Kurt _______________________________________________ GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 00:01:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 22:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Reflections on an Ultra 60 Message-ID: Well, believe it or not, the U60 is one of the few Suns I haven't spent much time with. (I think it was limited to tuning one into a SunMC server to test the E10K modules for SunMC.) Gee, this is a pretty beefy box. The dual SCSI is nice, as are the two UPA slots (like the U30). I have a Creator 3D series 3 in slot 0, a C3D series 2 in slot 1. (Now I need to hook up a monitor to the second card...) With 1G of RAM, dual 300's, and a 10K 18G disk, it's pretty quick. OBP is pretty complex as well. There are options here that I usually expect to see only in servers. (Well, the E220R is the U60...) Two thoughts on this subject: 1) If you know what you are doing, you can relly configure this system to do what you want. 2) If you are clueless, you can fuck yourself badly. BTW, plug for docs.sun.com, it's been a while since I've used it, (I usually yank the E10K docs I need off of my shelf) but it's pretty cool. I had some questions, and there was the service manual to answer my questions. Now I need to do some OS loads... I am thinking of splitting the 18G drive into 4G chunks for different OS revs. (Like maybe one reserved for Sol 9 beta.) So, I go to play with my toy now. (I have mixed feelings - on one hand, a U60 for $800 is cool. But, all these used systems are driving my Sun stock into the toilet...) -Pete ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 00:17:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 06:17:38 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Reflections on an Ultra 60 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c1336e$a7e42350$e6ae7dc2@dataedge.ie> Peter, I'll have to agree with you on the U60 being a pretty beefy box. I had always wanted one and then once I got it I was even more impressed than I thought I would be. I still haven't found anything I might want to do with Sun system at home that it couldn't handle. My system is similar to yours except I have two 9 giggers and an E3d m3. Now if I were to use it to do some serious cryptanalysis I'd prolly upgrade to processor modules with max cache (I think it'll take 4mb modules but not 8 mb modules but I'm not 100% on that, it's 6am here and I've been up since this time yesterday), and it might be interesting to try the E3dM6, but other than that it seems to be the ideal machine for me. Chris Byrne -----Original Message----- From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf Of Peter L. Wargo Sent: 02 September 2001 06:01 To: geeks at sunhelp.org Subject: [geeks] Reflections on an Ultra 60 Well, believe it or not, the U60 is one of the few Suns I haven't spent much time with. (I think it was limited to tuning one into a SunMC server to test the E10K modules for SunMC.) Gee, this is a pretty beefy box. The dual SCSI is nice, as are the two UPA slots (like the U30). I have a Creator 3D series 3 in slot 0, a C3D series 2 in slot 1. (Now I need to hook up a monitor to the second card...) With 1G of RAM, dual 300's, and a 10K 18G disk, it's pretty quick. From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 00:32:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 22:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Reflections on an Ultra 60 In-Reply-To: <000501c1336e$a7e42350$e6ae7dc2@dataedge.ie> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Sep 2001, Chris Byrne wrote: > My system is similar to yours except I have two 9 giggers and an E3d m3. Now > if I were to use it to do some serious cryptanalysis I'd prolly upgrade to > processor modules with max cache (I think it'll take 4mb modules but not 8 > mb modules but I'm not 100% on that, it's 6am here and I've been up since > this time yesterday), and it might be interesting to try the E3dM6, but > other than that it seems to be the ideal machine for me. The maximum cache on any of the "UPA slot" CPU's is 4M. A pair of 450's would be neat. I have access to an Elite 3Dm3, but it is in my U10. Also, the m3 generates a fair amount of heat... The m6 somewhat more. I do like the cool "sunburst" logo for the startup banner. -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 00:54:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 06:54:40 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Reflections on an Ultra 60 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c13373$d4971010$e6ae7dc2@dataedge.ie> DOH, I knew that (the cache thing). Like I said, it's 6 am here (now almost 7 actually). I would very much like a pair of 450x4mb nmodules but last time I checked that would have been at least $1500 each which is a bit more than I can do at the moment... like say a cars worth. I hadn't noticed the heat issue with the M3, but then again the '60 has enough airflow through it to fly a fair sized kite. Honestly I don't generally do the kind of serious 3d work that the M6 would be useful for, and if I did I'd prolly buy an Octane anyway (I've been looking for an excuse to buy one ever since I sold my 3 O2's) -----Original Message----- From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf Of Peter L. Wargo Sent: 02 September 2001 06:32 To: geeks at sunhelp.org Subject: RE: [geeks] Reflections on an Ultra 60 The maximum cache on any of the "UPA slot" CPU's is 4M. A pair of 450's would be neat. I have access to an Elite 3Dm3, but it is in my U10. Also, the m3 generates a fair amount of heat... The m6 somewhat more. I do like the cool "sunburst" logo for the startup banner. -Pete _______________________________________________ GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 01:21:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 01 Sep 2001 23:21:40 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Daytime TV In-Reply-To: <3B91A98F.C4365733@agrijag.com> References: <0fd201c1335e$719531f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <3B91A98F.C4365733@agrijag.com> Message-ID: <999411700.1123.281.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Sat, 2001-09-01 at 20:37, Michael S. Schiller wrote: > Is it just me, or does anyone else here not see the problem with wiping > fingerprints off of a gun? I don't know, whenever somebody hands me their gun > to checkout I ALWAYS wipe my fingerprints off of the gun, never know what > that person might do (or did) with that gun! See, I just never ever ever touch a gun from someone that I don't know and trust. There's just no reason for it, especially where I'm living now. > I must be a bad parent, when my kid was having trouble with kids picking > fights with her I calmly explained that if somebody hits her, she should > casually stomp them into the ground, but that she shouldn't get caught doing > so. Of course the school said she should 'tell' on anyone hitting her. I told > her it's better to handle it herself than running off to the authorities. > Maybe this is why I now live in the backwoods of TN where this sort of thing > is expected. See, my parents taught me to use words, even though we lived out in the boonies. I couldn't have beat anybody up had I wanted to, at least not until I got to sophmore year in HS, and by then there wasn't anybody worth beating up. In my middle school, some kid ticked me off one day before class, and I tore into him with all of my verbal skills, and shocked everybody around with comments about his ancestry and such. The principal had the balls to tell us that if I'd beat him up I wouldn't have been suspended. Stupid-assed bastard. There were some good things about living there, but the general attitude of people was NOT one of them. Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 05:17:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 11:17:12 +0100 Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com>; from woods@weird.com on Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 07:12:14PM -0400 References: <20010831201006.D712C11F85@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010831220105.A19420@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 07:12:14PM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote: > [ On Friday, August 31, 2001 at 23:07:17 (+0100), David Cantrell wrote: ] > > Yes. But that doesn't update the display as I update the document, and > > it won't go straight to the right part of the right page when I'm editing > > working the fifth paragraph of sub-section 3 of section 5 of chapter 9 > > of my magnum opus. > > How incremental do you want the update, and how much CPU do you have? Every few seconds would be sufficient, and whilst I have plenty of CPU, I don't have enough to regenerate the postscript that often. > Hopefully you've arranged to have your PS generated on at most a > per-chapter basis, not for the entire book at once!!! I do, but that's largely because of the tools. It makes more sense to treat the entire book as one document and to work on that one document, something which is problematic with current Unixy tools. That I am forced to do this is a tool deficiency which I would rather not have to deal with. > If your PostScript output conforms to the PS DSC then 'gv -watch' will > most definitely always re-display the same page you were looking at > previously and that means you only have to navigate to the table, graph, > or drawing once, and then watch it flash up with new changes every time > you save the source. Ah, I didn't know that. However, I think this fixation on producing postscript and rendering that to the screen is wrong. The existence of (eg) Wordperfect and Word proves that what I want can be done in real time on low-end hardware without me having to dick around with postscript until I'm ready to send the final version off. Please don't get me wrong - I don't want a GUI editor. What I want is to be able to edit the document and its structural markup and to have a close to real-time display of the effects. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david This is a signature. There are many like it but this one is mine. From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 08:07:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 09:07:13 EDT Subject: [geeks] Re: Firearms safety ;-) References: <000101c13365$cafa7690$e6ae7dc2@dataedge.ie> Message-ID: <01340090712.dave.13086@cca.org> chris at chrisbyrne.com writes: >The second rule: never bring a fist to a gunfight i.e. never enter an armed >confrontation without parity of arms I always liked the quote: "Never aim a loaded gun at anyone. Never *ever* aim an unloaded gun at anyone." -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- -------- If it wasn't for good luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all. ------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 08:16:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 09:16:12 -0400 Subject: Firearms safety ;-) was RE: [geeks] Daytime TV References: <000101c13365$cafa7690$e6ae7dc2@dataedge.ie> Message-ID: <0ff601c133b1$73632570$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Omigosh! Another gun geek! Feels like home.... :) > > I grabbed his wrist and stuck the underside of his elbow, breaking it rather > nastily and causing him to drop the weapon. Then I broke his nose, knocked > him to the ground and elbow dropped onto his sternum cracking it, and > several of his ribs. > I had a surprisingly similar set of circustances when I interupted an almost-rape while in college. The attacker didn't have a gun, but he did take a swing at me which ended up in his broken elbow and nose. Wow - talk to enough people, and start to find folks that have done very similar things. It's comforting to know that I'm in good company! Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 08:34:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 09:34:03 -0400 Subject: [geeks] LART! LART! LART! ($*%@ kids) References: <000401c13369$3a7fef10$e6ae7dc2@dataedge.ie> Message-ID: <100501c133b3$f191a0a0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > 'BOOM Sha-lock-lock BOOM!!!' House of Pain, "Shamrocks and Shenanigans" > Jeez - haven't heard that in ages. How long you been outside the US anyway? :) > I used to have a pistol gripped Mossberg 590 with the cruiser pump 20" > barrel and the two shot extender. I loaded it with some custom shells a > local guy made using flechettes packed with flare powder. Nothing says I > love you like a flaming 10" hole in your chest. My wife and I were watching the discovery channell a few months ago when a show on non-lethal arms came on. Now she wants her own shotgun - with beanbag loads. Ballistic cloth surrounding lead shot. Apparently doesn't break the skin - but can cause all sorts of broken bones. You should have see the gin on her face during the slow-motion demonstration clips! Another interesting load a freind (used work for the DOD) told me about is unsabboted dimes. Yes - it's an expensive load, but apparently quite effective. Imagine ten or fifteen dimes flipping and spinning and rotating through the air... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 11:09:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 17:09:08 +0100 Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010902101312.H28412@zilla.nu>; from ward@zilla.nu on Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 10:13:12AM -0500 References: <20010831201006.D712C11F85@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010831220105.A19420@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902101312.H28412@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010902170907.A4241@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 10:13:12AM -0500, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > There once was a TeX editor for NeXTStep that would display the dvi (via > display PS) as you typed. Low-end hardware, postscript, real-time > updates... It's all there. Do you remember what it was called? Maybe it would compile easily in OS X. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 11:43:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 12:43:08 -0400 Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> References: <20010831201006.D712C11F85@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010831220105.A19420@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> On Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 11:17:12AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: > On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 07:12:14PM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote: > > [ On Friday, August 31, 2001 at 23:07:17 (+0100), David Cantrell wrote: ] > > > Yes. But that doesn't update the display as I update the document, and > > > it won't go straight to the right part of the right page when I'm editing > > > working the fifth paragraph of sub-section 3 of section 5 of chapter 9 > > > of my magnum opus. > > > > How incremental do you want the update, and how much CPU do you have? > > Every few seconds would be sufficient, and whilst I have plenty of CPU, > I don't have enough to regenerate the postscript that often. You might be able to coax near realtime updates out of postscript without using too much CPU. The secret comes from using EPS just to regenerate the current paragraph. The difficulty would be dealing with page wraps. But, these would probably be easily dealt with by treating the page as infinate until the paragraph is done, then break things up to fit on realy pages. > However, I think this fixation on producing postscript and rendering that > to the screen is wrong. The existence of (eg) Wordperfect and Word proves > that what I want can be done in real time on low-end hardware without me > having to dick around with postscript until I'm ready to send the final > version off. Postscript can also run on low end gear just fine. Using postscript throughout the programming process is an excelent way to reuse code and save development time. > Please don't get me wrong - I don't want a GUI editor. What I want is > to be able to edit the document and its structural markup and to have > a close to real-time display of the effects. Postscript is great. Just look at how any program would have had to be written during the NeWS era or for the Next machines. They had realtime displaying word processors. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 13:50:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 14:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> References: <20010831201006.D712C11F85@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010831220105.A19420@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010902185036.D718FE8@proven.weird.com> [ On Sunday, September 2, 2001 at 11:17:12 (+0100), David Cantrell wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... > > Every few seconds would be sufficient, and whilst I have plenty of CPU, > I don't have enough to regenerate the postscript that often. Ah, I see a slight misunderstanding creeping/peeping out of your response..... I'll expose it more below.... > > Hopefully you've arranged to have your PS generated on at most a > > per-chapter basis, not for the entire book at once!!! > > I do, but that's largely because of the tools. It makes more sense to > treat the entire book as one document and to work on that one document, > something which is problematic with current Unixy tools. That I am > forced to do this is a tool deficiency which I would rather not have > to deal with. Herein lies another slight misunderstanding. I almost always treat document preparation in an object oriented way -- indeed I've done that since long before I really knew (beyond Smalltalk) what "OO" was.... It's just like having separate compilation units for your source code, and a loading-linker to put them all together into one final program. A large document is simply a collection of objects (smaller documents), or components in those smaller documents, such as images, tables, graphs, diagrams, etc. I don't edit a diagram in a large document by editing the entire large document's source at once. I don't see this as a limitation in the tools, but rather a feature of the tools -- though certainly due to the computing resource requirements of the underlying implementations they can be seen to "encourage" this style of document management. The only time I've ever found this style of document management to be lacking in any way is for doing magazine-style layout. However if you think about it something like Quark's software is really a graphics editor that has good support for breaking and joining and moving about chunks of output from a word processor. With not too much extra magic you could maybe add the same capability to the likes of xfig by writing code that could break apart the PostScript output of your word processor on a line-by-line basis and move about EPSF chunks to lay out a document on a page-by-page basis. > Ah, I didn't know that. Yes, 'gv -watch' gives just about exactly the level of automation necessary to be able to easily preview changes to complex or subtle aspects of any small part of a larger document. > However, I think this fixation on producing postscript and rendering that > to the screen is wrong. The existence of (eg) Wordperfect and Word proves > that what I want can be done in real time on low-end hardware without me > having to dick around with postscript until I'm ready to send the final > version off. Ah, here's where you've gotten confused I think. You see the reason why people generally poo-pooh "WYSIWYG" and make all kinds of fun about how it rarely ever gives a true representation of what you'll see on the printed page is because it's generally always implemented upside down and backwards, often because of the limitations of low-end hardware. I.e. the screen rendering is done in different ways from the print rendering because of the performance issues. The reason more advanced document management and processing systems render something like PostScript and then preview it is because that's the only way to get a real approximation of the final output. You are looking at the final output, just with a lower resolution (though almost all previewers include magnification features to allow you to go from a preview that has a realistic size to a preview that has a realistic resolution). This is, in fact, the way pre-PC computerised typesetting systems always worked too. For example the old CompuGraphic typesetting workstations had a 16x64 (IIRC) ASCII display for entering and editing the source code, and a high-res (probably 800x1024 at the time) bitmap screen for previewing the generated output just before it goes to the printer. I don't recall compugraphic having a magnification feature for their preview screen though.... About the only typesetting system that has a (slightly less) device- specific output format is TeX with it's DVI output. Unfortunately all the DVI previewers I've ever seen for X11 suffer exactly the same kinds of problems most PC-bases so-called WYSIWYG word processors suffer in that the previewed output is never quite exactly the same as the printed output. Xdvi, for example does not render its output in the same way dvi2ps does and as a result alignment and relative sizes of objects on the screen may not be the same as their alignment and relative size on the printed output. After nearly two decades of producing documents of all kinds and sizes in the Unix environment I've come to trust only those systems that can produce, preview, and print, PostScript output. (Mind you I've never used any of the fancy and expensive integrated systems such as Interleaf or FrameMaker, though I've heard enough people complain about them that I doubt I'd find them to be very much better than any PC-based junk.) > Please don't get me wrong - I don't want a GUI editor. What I want is > to be able to edit the document and its structural markup and to have > a close to real-time display of the effects. Then you *do* really want to generate printer-ready output and preview that on your screen! ;-) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 13:55:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 14:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20010831201006.D712C11F85@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010831220105.A19420@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> [ On Sunday, September 2, 2001 at 12:43:08 (-0400), Joshua D Boyd wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... > > Postscript can also run on low end gear just fine. Using postscript > throughout the programming process is an excelent way to reuse code and > save development time. Indeed -- and similarly PDF if you do it right.... Aqua for Mac OSx is entirely PDF driven in the same ay NeWS was PS driven. Supposedly the Adobe engineers present at the first unveiling were literally tripping over themselves when they found out and were able to see how fast and clean the result was. Their bosses had screwed up big time by refusing to lower the PS licensing price so that Apple could afford to practically give away the OS. The result is of course that Apple did their own PDF engine from the published specs and Adobe doesn't get a dime from it. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 16:53:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:53:02 -0500 Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> References: <20010831201006.D712C11F85@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010831220105.A19420@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010902165302.Y23531@mrbill.net> On Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 02:55:50PM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote: > Supposedly the Adobe engineers present at the first unveiling were > literally tripping over themselves when they found out and were able to > see how fast and clean the result was. Their bosses had screwed up big > time by refusing to lower the PS licensing price so that Apple could > afford to practically give away the OS. The result is of course that > Apple did their own PDF engine from the published specs and Adobe > doesn't get a dime from it. Isnt PDF just a postscript variation/subset? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 17:36:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 15:36:59 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Re: Firearms safety ;-) In-Reply-To: <01340090712.dave.13086@cca.org> References: <000101c13365$cafa7690$e6ae7dc2@dataedge.ie> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902153550.023bc2e0@mail.zipcon.net> What I was taught was... "Never point a loaded gun at someone unless you intend to use it. Treat all guns as loaded guns.." At 09:07 AM 9/2/01 -0400, you wrote: >chris at chrisbyrne.com writes: > > >The second rule: never bring a fist to a gunfight i.e. never enter an armed > >confrontation without parity of arms > >I always liked the quote: > > "Never aim a loaded gun at anyone. > Never *ever* aim an unloaded gun at anyone." > >-------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- >-------- If it wasn't for good luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all. ------- >_______________________________________________ >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 17:54:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 15:54:16 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Capacitance question. Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902155047.02490ec0@mail.zipcon.net> If I have 2 100pf caps and need to have a 200pf capacitance am I correct that the following would work i'm VERY rusty on capacitance. |---100pf---| --< >-- |---100pf---| (2 caps connected in parallel in the circuit) or is it ---|---100pf---|------|---100pf---|--- From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 18:13:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 19:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Capacitance question. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902155047.02490ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: Put them in parallel. n On Sun, 2 Sep 2001, Geoff Reed wrote: > If I have 2 100pf caps and need to have a 200pf capacitance am I correct > that the following would work i'm VERY rusty on capacitance. > > |---100pf---| > --< >-- > |---100pf---| > > (2 caps connected in parallel in the circuit) > > or is it ---|---100pf---|------|---100pf---|--- > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 18:22:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 16:22:26 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Capacitance question. In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902155047.02490ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902162158.030e1060@mail.zipcon.net> Thanks :) I -thought- i remembered that was correct, cap's are palled to double value and resistors in serial... At 07:13 PM 9/2/01 -0400, you wrote: >Put them in parallel. > >n >On Sun, 2 Sep 2001, Geoff Reed wrote: > > > If I have 2 100pf caps and need to have a 200pf capacitance am I correct > > that the following would work i'm VERY rusty on capacitance. > > > > |---100pf---| > > --< >-- > > |---100pf---| > > > > (2 caps connected in parallel in the circuit) > > > > or is it ---|---100pf---|------|---100pf---|--- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > >_______________________________________________ >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 2 19:01:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 20:01:15 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: Firearms safety ;-) References: <000101c13365$cafa7690$e6ae7dc2@dataedge.ie> <5.1.0.14.2.20010902153550.023bc2e0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <109c01c1340b$902b83a0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > What I was taught was... > "Never point a loaded gun at someone unless you intend to use it. > Treat all guns as loaded guns.." > My grandpa always said - "Never point a gun, loaded or unloaded, at someone you aren't prepared to kill." Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 01:07:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 02:07:27 -0400 Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> References: <20010831201006.D712C11F85@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010831220105.A19420@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010903020727.A14623@cs.millersville.edu> On Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 02:55:50PM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote: > Supposedly the Adobe engineers present at the first unveiling were > literally tripping over themselves when they found out and were able to > see how fast and clean the result was. Their bosses had screwed up big > time by refusing to lower the PS licensing price so that Apple could > afford to practically give away the OS. The result is of course that > Apple did their own PDF engine from the published specs and Adobe > doesn't get a dime from it. Anyone know why Apple didn't stick with DisplayPostscript, or just simply switch to display Ghostscript? -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 01:10:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 02:10:54 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: Firearms safety ;-) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902153550.023bc2e0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <000101c13365$cafa7690$e6ae7dc2@dataedge.ie> <5.1.0.14.2.20010902153550.023bc2e0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20010903021054.B14623@cs.millersville.edu> On Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 03:36:59PM -0700, Geoff Reed wrote: > What I was taught was... > "Never point a loaded gun at someone unless you intend to use it. > Treat all guns as loaded guns.." Those are somewhat two different things. I mean (and yeah this is definately a border case), assume that I'm holding an unloaded gun, and I want to kill you. By those rules, I should raise the gun, point at you, and pull the trigger (since I'm treating it as loaded). Of course, at this point I'm screwed since you now know it is an unloaded gun, and also now have a good reason to try and kill me. So, you shouldn't ever pointed a gun loaded or unloaded at someone you don't want to kill, however, you especially should point unloaded guns at people since you don't want to provoke them when unarmed. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 01:38:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 02:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010903020727.A14623@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20010831201006.D712C11F85@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010831220105.A19420@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> <20010903020727.A14623@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010903063859.4938EE8@proven.weird.com> [ On Monday, September 3, 2001 at 02:07:27 (-0400), Joshua D Boyd wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... > > Anyone know why Apple didn't stick with DisplayPostscript, or just simply > switch to display Ghostscript? DisplayPostScript is a licensed product of Adobe -- as I undersand that's what they wanted to go with in the first place. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 01:49:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 02:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010902165302.Y23531@mrbill.net> References: <20010831201006.D712C11F85@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010831220105.A19420@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> <20010902165302.Y23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010903064917.3AF43E8@proven.weird.com> [ On Sunday, September 2, 2001 at 16:53:02 (-0500), Bill Bradford wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... > > Isnt PDF just a postscript variation/subset? I've always considered it to be a subset, yes. To repeat what I've been told before: ``PDF is basically PostScript without the "programming language" features removed.'' In PDF the document structure is supposedly required and/or inherent, but in PostScript of course the document structure is a set of "standard" (i.e. defined by Adobe) commenting conventions (PS DSC). It's supposed to be easier and faster to process (I guess you don't need a full procedural language interpreter). >From a licensing point of view though PostScript is still a lot more locked in to Adobe than PDF is. (yes there are free PS interpreters, and others, such as Cannon, have also written their own non-free interpreters too) Adobe supposedly published even more detailed and freely usable specifications about PDF explicitly so that other people would write viewers and print engines and make PDF far more commonplace and palatable to the average user. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 10:27:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:27:22 -0400 Subject: [geeks] IRIS Indigo Prom passwd Message-ID: I'm trying to fix up a friend's R3k indigo with my copy of 5.3 but it has a PROM password that neither of us know. Does anybody know how to clear these things? Normal sun nvram tactics unfortunately won't work as the nvram is on the system backplane. Any suggestions welcome daniel From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 10:47:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Wes) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:47:08 -0600 Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. References: <20010904012147.Z23531@mrbill.net> <20010904013811.C23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <002101c1348f$b4130e80$3628020a@Sentoev> I'm rather frightened by this merger. I work technical support for gateway and the same company I work for also was a HP outsourcer for their Pavilion line. I have a compaq Deskpro 6000, which is a horrible POS. It's does all sorts of bizarre stuff. So...you've got two computer manufacturers that make rather shotty desktop systems, but decent enough servers. I'm frightened. The tech support world is going to get even shittier. From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 12:33:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Muhammad Alkhattab) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 13:33:11 -0400 Subject: [geeks] question Message-ID: <003b01c1349e$81d14fe0$dd259a8e@toshiba> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C1347C.F9BF08C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I have two question.Firstly,I am getting an error when I am in admin = tools.When I go to the browse menu and click on the serial ports.I am = getting this error,"List serial port failed". Secondly,I am trying to access the internet through my modem.Is there a = step by step procedure in doing this.I am running solaris 8 on an intel = base platform(compaq proliant server). Thirdly,On boot up I notice a warning"unsopported opcode".What might be = the cause? Thanks, Muhammad ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C1347C.F9BF08C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
 I have two question.Firstly,I am = getting an=20 error when I am in admin tools.When I go to the browse menu and click on = the=20 serial ports.I am getting this error,"List serial port = failed".
Secondly,I am trying to access the = internet through=20 my modem.Is there a step by step procedure in doing this.I am running = solaris 8=20 on an intel base platform(compaq proliant server).
Thirdly,On boot up I notice a = warning"unsopported=20 opcode".What might be the cause?
Thanks,
 
Muhammad
------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C1347C.F9BF08C0-- From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 14:45:35 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 12:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Capacitance question. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902155047.02490ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20010903194535.72165.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> I think two caps in sequence (series) would still equal 100pf - as soon as the first "shot it's load" it would overwhelm the second cap and pass it right through... I think parallel is what you would want... Ken (Doesn't your DMM have a capacitance setting?) --- Geoff Reed wrote: > If I have 2 100pf caps and need to have a 200pf > capacitance am I correct > that the following would work i'm VERY rusty on > capacitance. > > |---100pf---| > --< >-- > |---100pf---| > > (2 caps connected in parallel in the circuit) > > or is it ---|---100pf---|------|---100pf---|--- > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 14:55:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 12:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Reflections on an Ultra 60 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010903195512.83768.qmail@web14601.mail.yahoo.com> Pete, How do these prices drive down the stock? If these boxes were being bought by businesses, the prices would be higher - since they are not beong bought, the price is *low*. That the dot-bomb took the life out of the Sun market (for one market segment, for now) is not a sign of trouble for Sun, IMHO. Remember, the stock market is an indication of what ignorant investors think of your stock *right now* - it does not mean the company is in bad shape, it means they have a marketing/pr problem ;^) And yess, the glass is half-full! Ken --- "Peter L. Wargo" wrote: > So, I go to play with my toy now. (I have mixed > feelings - on one hand, a > U60 for $800 is cool. But, all these used systems > are driving my Sun > stock into the toilet...) ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 15:00:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 13:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010902101312.H28412@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010903200026.22247.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> Frame. It is a way of life. ;^) I *love* my Framemaker install on my SPARCbook - it is *great*! Nice and zippy, even on an SS/5-170 clone w/128 Meg RAM (SPARCbook 3TX). Highly recommended. Ken --- "Reagen B . Ward" wrote: > On Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 11:17:12AM +0100, David > Cantrell wrote: > > > Please don't get me wrong - I don't want a GUI > editor. What I want is > > to be able to edit the document and its structural > markup and to have > > a close to real-time display of the effects. ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 15:09:24 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 13:09:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] I'm a published author 8-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010903200924.75201.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> All you need to be productive in vi is a 3x5 card with some notes on it, and a five-minute introduction to the wonderful world of modal-editing (navigate vs. edit mode)... Ken (No ducking - that's for wimps, though cross-posted to geeks, for fear of "He who should not be pissed off" ;^) Hi Bill!) --- Paul Sladen wrote: > On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > > > I'm the author of chapter 15, "Working with the vi > editor", > > ....just because vi isn't intitive and > self-documenting enough to be able to > use with out reading a manual first; Try emacs... > [ducks] > > Congrats to Bill anyhows, Paul > > _______________________________________________ > rescue maillist - rescue at sunhelp.org > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 15:13:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 13:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Best place for sun RAM? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010903201326.38127.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> Swap it at the office! ;^) Just kidding... eBay is probably best, but doesn't Sun have a warranty on their RAM? Ken --- "Peter L. Wargo" wrote: > > Got a failed 64M dimm for an ultra (501-2480). > Anybody know a good place > to pick up a replacement? ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 15:35:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (bill pointon) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 16:35:13 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Capacitance question. References: <20010903194535.72165.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B93E980.C43C030E@earthlink.net> Ken Hansen wrote: > I think two caps in sequence (series) would still > equal 100pf - no -- two caps in series devide the capacitance because they increase the gap -- the result of 2 100pf in series would be 50pf -- three would be 33.3pf -- etc From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 16:17:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 14:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Best place for sun RAM? In-Reply-To: <20010903201326.38127.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > Swap it at the office! ;^) > > Just kidding... Of course. :-) > eBay is probably best, but doesn't Sun have a warranty > on their RAM? Yes, but this module lacks the proper barcode. :( -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 16:41:28 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 14:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Reflections on an Ultra 60 In-Reply-To: <20010903195512.83768.qmail@web14601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > How do these prices drive down the stock? Well, it's more of an economic indicator of the slump in the market - when I can pay $800 for a U60 that is only a couple of years old (and being sold new still!), there is a problem. So, our sales sag for a while, our stock (which shouldn't have split) drops to a level that makes me want to cry, and the less useful people at your job get nervous. (That last one may be a *good* thing - IMO, some sections of Sun hired too fast, and got some less than useful bodies. Like individuals who piss and moan about having to do their work on anything but a PC....) > If these boxes were being bought by businesses, the > prices would be higher - since they are not beong > bought, the price is *low*. Actually, I know of some places that would've snapped up stuff quicky, if they could - but, it takes weeks (or more) for most places to get the order through the chain... (Side story, when buying NCGR's now defunct E10K, I had a problem when the price dropped after all the approvals for the PO were made, but the check hadn't been cut. So, I "upgraded" a bit... Like turned one DLT drive into an ETL 7/3500, added some cool software, etc. It was either that or wait two more months for a revised approval. In a 60-person company! Geez....) > That the dot-bomb took the life out of the Sun market > (for one market segment, for now) is not a sign of > trouble for Sun, IMHO. Not in the long run, no. Thinks will be skinny for a while, but I look at it as a long-term investment. I jush wish I had another 10K or so lying around to go buy some more stock, having bought a wad's worth at $15... > Remember, the stock market is an indication of what > ignorant investors think of your stock *right now* - > it does not mean the company is in bad shape, it means > they have a marketing/pr problem ;^) Yep. Part of the whole problem is the "gigahertz gap", which we all know is a non-issue if you know what you are doing. But, there are people out there who think that faster clock speed is a sign of higher performance. (Personally, I'll just sit back w/my G4 and laugh...) > And yess, the glass is half-full! :-) Always the optimist, huh? Well, I actually think this downturn was a good thing for Sun - as a company, Sun was getting too arrogant. The Exx00 class servers were (are) great, but I wonder about the Sun Fire(tm) line - I don't see them as revolutionary (in my perspective) as the Exx00's were. IMO, the Exx00's were the first really capable MP servers from sun - the SS1000 and the SC2000 are great (and durable), but they had some design issues - also, Solaris wasn't mature enough yet. The Exx00's, along with Solaris 2.5.1, became the first "appliance class" MP servers - you could set them up fairly easily, configure them, and site back to watch them run for a few years, especially if you had the by then well-seasoned SSA's for storage. I know of an E4000 that has run for over 4 years w only *two* unscheduled downtimes. An amazing feat, and it is still running 2.5.1.... I'm just being somewhat whiny myself - I seem to end up going to companies just before something weird happens... I have yet to take a job and have nothing eventful happen for even 6 months... _pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 16:47:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 16:47:41 -0500 Subject: [geeks] GAAAHHHH Message-ID: <20010903164741.R23531@mrbill.net> Past few days: Friday: Finish scraping and sanding ceiling in living room, hallway. Saturday: sit around Sunday: paint ceiling in living room, hallway, discover it doesent look as good as we thought Today: Rent sprayer, spray up popcorn ceilings GOD IM A MESS. My dark blue shirt now looks like denim and I look like I spilt cottage cheese all over me. bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 16:49:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 17:49:01 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Which is bad? Message-ID: I have an Axil 320 that won't install solaris. I get this: --------------------------------------------------- Creating and checking UFS file systems - Creating / (c0t3d0s0) - Creating /var (c0t3d0s1) WARNING: /iommu at f,e0000000/sbus at f,e0001000/espdma at f,400000/esp at f,800000 (esp0): data transfer overrun: current esp state: esp: State=DATA Last State=DATA_DONE esp: Latched stat=0x91 intr=0x10 fifo 0x80 esp: last msg out: ; last msg in: IDENTIFY esp: DMA csr=0xa4240010 esp: addr=fc008288 dmacnt=0 last=fc006288 last_cnt=2000 esp: Cmd dump for Target 3 Lun 0: esp: cdblen=6, cdb=[ 0x8 0x2 0x40 0xa0 0x10 0x0 ] esp: pkt_state=0xf pkt_flags=0x0 pkt_statistics=0x1 esp: cmd_flags=0x462 cmd_timeout=60 WARNING: /iommu at f,e0000000/sbus at f,e0001000/espdma at f,400000/esp at f,800000/sd at 3,0 ( sd3): SCSI transport failed: reason 'data_ovr': retrying command WARNING: /iommu at f,e0000000/sbus at f,e0001000/espdma at f,400000/esp at f,800000/sd at 3,0 ( sd3): requeue of command fails (ffffffff) ERROR: File system creation failed for /var (c0t3d0s1) ERROR: Could not check or create system critical file systems ERROR: Could not update disks with new configuration Could not update disks with new configuration ------------------------------------------------------- and I'm not sure if its the ESP on the board or the drive. Are there any SCSI experts out there? daniel From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 18:36:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 16:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Capacitance question. In-Reply-To: <3B93E980.C43C030E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010903233607.61175.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> Ah, thanks... Ken --- bill pointon wrote: > Ken Hansen wrote: > > > I think two caps in sequence (series) would still > > equal 100pf - > > no -- two caps in series devide the capacitance > because they increase the gap > -- the result of 2 100pf in series would be 50pf -- > three would be 33.3pf -- > etc ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 19:30:28 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Geoff Reed) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 17:30:28 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Capacitance question. In-Reply-To: <20010903194535.72165.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010902155047.02490ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010903172551.02ed18b0@mail.zipcon.net> At 12:45 PM 9/3/01 -0700, you wrote: >Ken >(Doesn't your DMM have a capacitance setting?) nope. it was from a phone call from my brother, I've not had to make custom cap values that way in a long time. the place he works is in a cheapskate phase right now, so instead of buying a half dozen caps of the right value, he's supposed to "make some they already have work" they are part of a voltage regulation device on a generator, and the larger the cap, the higher the output voltage.... From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 19:32:24 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Geoff Reed) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 17:32:24 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Best place for sun RAM? In-Reply-To: References: <20010903201326.38127.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010903173128.02ed1370@mail.zipcon.net> At 02:17 PM 9/3/01 -0700, you wrote: >Yes, but this module lacks the proper barcode. :( > >-P Doesn't that just frost your cookies when they rip the barcodes off parts? :(:( From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 20:03:10 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 18:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Best place for sun RAM? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010903173128.02ed1370@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Geoff Reed wrote: > At 02:17 PM 9/3/01 -0700, you wrote: > > >Yes, but this module lacks the proper barcode. :( > > Doesn't that just frost your cookies when they rip the barcodes off parts? :(:( Yep, *very* annoying. I'm not sure as to why it is done, either... -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 21:05:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Best place for sun RAM? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010904020552.20034.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> How else would someone like "sunguk" get a metric buttload of 32 Meg DIMMs for SS/20, Ultras and be able to sell them at $10/ea? I bet he only paid a few dollars a DIMM with no support, that is why *they* have no Sun barcode... They seem to *have had* them in the past... (an odd gummy region on the top-front of each DIMM I got) Ken --- "Peter L. Wargo" wrote: > On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Geoff Reed wrote: > > > At 02:17 PM 9/3/01 -0700, you wrote: > > > > >Yes, but this module lacks the proper barcode. :( > > > > Doesn't that just frost your cookies when they rip > the barcodes off parts? :(:( > > Yep, *very* annoying. I'm not sure as to why it is > done, either... ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 21:22:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Hey look, cheap PPro CPUs (200 MHz @ $9/ea) Message-ID: <20010904022241.66473.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com> I know the PPro chip has a lot of fans here, thought I'd pass along this deal: http://www.pcliquidator.com/ppro200.htm Don't know about S/H costs... Enjoy, Ken ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 3 22:51:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 22:51:17 -0500 Subject: [geeks] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq Message-ID: <20010903225117.U23531@mrbill.net> All I have to say is "woah". According to this New York Times article , HP will be acquiring Compaq in a stock deal worth approximately $25 billion. http://archive.nytimes.com/2001/09/04/business/04DEAL.html bill (hrm, I bet we're having a meeting at work about this tomorrow, as we're a Sun/Compaq shop, with only two HPUX boxes right now...) -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 00:37:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 22:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq In-Reply-To: <20010903225117.U23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > All I have to say is "woah". All I have to say is "holy shit." Man, it's gonna get interesting now - Although, I have little faith in HP/Compaq - they seem to be changing focus way too often. I agree with ol' Scotty-boy: The only competition is IBM... Bet work will be abuzz tomorrow... Although many of my group have seen much already, as they went from Celerity to FP systems to Cray to SGI to Sun... -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 00:40:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 22:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Best place for sun RAM? In-Reply-To: <20010904020552.20034.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > How else would someone like "sunguk" get a metric > buttload of 32 Meg DIMMs for SS/20, Ultras and be able [...] > the past... (an odd gummy region on the top-front of > each DIMM I got) I kinda theorized the same... Although it tests out just fine... All I need is one bloody little 501-2480, and I can't seem to find any for a reasonable price.... AAAAAAGH! -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 00:52:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 01:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq In-Reply-To: <3B94FCA7.6C7163B9@opnsys.com> Message-ID: Why? I really like the HP servers I've worked with, and PA-Risc is rather nifty (I've got a couple I'm playing with). All desktops (compaq, hp, otherwise) pretty much suck. I'm moveing this to geeks btw. Nick On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Kevin Loch wrote: > Suck. > > This is like Miracle Whip buying Sun. > > KL From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 00:59:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 22:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Sep 2001 nick at snowman.net wrote: > Why? I really like the HP servers I've worked with, and PA-Risc is rather > nifty (I've got a couple I'm playing with). All desktops (compaq, hp, > otherwise) pretty much suck. I'm moveing this to geeks btw. > Nick The worse thing is that HP cannot make up their mind, much like DEC/Compaq. -pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 01:03:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D Bhargav) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 11:03:49 +0500 Subject: [geeks] Sun Desktop Systems Message-ID: <14e32b14e898.14e89814e32b@wipro.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everybody, I am evaluating low-end Sparc systems for network driver development. How good is the Sun Blade 100 system vis-a-vis Ultra 5 or Ultra 10? I am specifically interested in a 64-bit system having atleast 2 PCI slots. And I guess that Sun Blade 100 fits the bill. The clinching factor for Sun Blade 100 is the price - just under $1000. Any comments are welcome. Thanks, Bhargav --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary Content-Type: text/plain; name="Wipro_Disclaimer.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Wipro_Disclaimer.txt" The Information contained and transmitted by this E-MAIL is proprietary to Wipro Limited and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If this is a forwarded message, the content of this E-MAIL may not have been sent with the authority of the Company. If you are not the intended recipient, an agent of the intended recipient or a person responsible for delivering the information to the named recipient, you are notified that any use, distribution, transmission, printing, copying or dissemination of this information in any way or in any manner is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please delete this mail & notify us immediately at mailadmin at wipro.com --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary-- From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 01:13:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 23:13:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Sun Desktop Systems In-Reply-To: <14e32b14e898.14e89814e32b@wipro.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, D Bhargav wrote: > Hello everybody, Hello. > I am evaluating low-end Sparc systems > for network driver development. Hmmm... Interesting... Are you deveoping drivers for a piece of hardware, or what? > How good is the Sun Blade 100 system > vis-a-vis Ultra 5 or Ultra 10? I am > specifically interested in a 64-bit > system having atleast 2 PCI slots. And > I guess that Sun Blade 100 fits the bill. > The clinching factor for Sun Blade 100 is > the price - just under $1000. At the risk of hurting my stock options some more, If you are looking for a good development system, you might want to consider a used Ultra 30 or Ultra 60 - they are 4-slot PCI, 64-bit, and have a 3.3v 66MHz slot as well as 3 5v 33mhz slots... Usually, you can find a good Ultra 30 for under $500, and a Ultra 60 for around $1000 or so. Just a thought. -Pete ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 01:21:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 01:21:47 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. Message-ID: <20010904012147.Z23531@mrbill.net> Tomorrow at work (We're a compaq/dec, sun, and minor-HP shop) is going to be VERY interesting. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 01:28:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 23:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. In-Reply-To: <20010904012147.Z23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > Tomorrow at work (We're a compaq/dec, sun, and minor-HP shop) is going > to be VERY interesting. Good excuse to go to all Sun. Hell, at least they don't change the OS/chip/target every 6 months... (386i and that "colbalt" stuff aside...) -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 01:33:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 16:33:33 +1000 (EST) Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Peter L. Wargo wrote: >On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > >> Tomorrow at work (We're a compaq/dec, sun, and minor-HP shop) is going >> to be VERY interesting. > >Good excuse to go to all Sun. Hell, at least they don't change the >OS/chip/target every 6 months... (386i and that "colbalt" stuff aside...) > Where's the story URL? is this public yet? Grant Diffey aka "nevyn" President of Computerbank Victoria Inc. http://www.computerbank.org.au/ From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 01:38:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 01:38:11 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. In-Reply-To: References: <20010904012147.Z23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010904013811.C23531@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 11:28:15PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > > Tomorrow at work (We're a compaq/dec, sun, and minor-HP shop) is going > > to be VERY interesting. > Good excuse to go to all Sun. Hell, at least they don't change the > OS/chip/target every 6 months... (386i and that "colbalt" stuff aside...) > -P We're about 90% Sun, 9% DEC/Compaq, and 1% HP (e.g., we have four HP-UX boxes that are being phased out, about 8-9 Tru64 *big* boxen that run Oracle that were bought before we went "all Sun from now on", and the rest is SPARC/Solaris..) I'm the secondary admin for the Tru64 machines, primary admin for the HPUX boxen (as the only other person in the company who had touched the OS was my manager-who-used-to-have-my-job), and primary on a few of the Sun machines as well... bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 01:38:35 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 01:38:35 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010904013835.D23531@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 04:33:33PM +1000, nevyn-packrat at artificial-stupidity.net wrote: > Where's the story URL? is this public yet? Look at news.com; I've got a link to a NYTimes article up at sunhelp.org. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 01:40:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 01:40:59 -0500 Subject: [geeks] strange question Message-ID: <20010904014058.E23531@mrbill.net> Where the hell can one normally buy checkbook registers? e.g., the little pad of paper with lines and such you write your checks down on... I normally get mine when I order new checks, but occasionally I run out of register before I run out of checks.... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 01:54:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 02:54:17 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. References: <20010904012147.Z23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3B947A99.7A667565@avoidant.org> Bill Bradford wrote: > Tomorrow at work (We're a compaq/dec, sun, and minor-HP shop) is going > to be VERY interesting. Cool, have fun. Hmmm, care to expound on why it'll be so interesting? I've never noticed vendor changes to have _that_ much impact on their clients in such a short time. Unless it's just people's reactions... ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 01:57:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 02:57:05 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq References: Message-ID: <003a01c1350e$ceec6e20$c610b3c6@twmaster.com> > The worse thing is that HP cannot make up their mind, much like > DEC/Compaq. > That is the whole thing in a nutshell. Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 01:58:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 02:58:33 -0400 Subject: [geeks] strange question References: <20010904014058.E23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <005401c1350f$034ddaa0$c610b3c6@twmaster.com> Office despot. Failing that a plain small ledger book will do. Mike N ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 2:40 AM Subject: [geeks] strange question > Where the hell can one normally buy checkbook registers? e.g., the little > pad of paper with lines and such you write your checks down on... I normally > get mine when I order new checks, but occasionally I run out of register before > I run out of checks.... > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 02:22:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:22:19 +0200 Subject: [geeks] Capacitance question. Message-ID: 2 capaticances in serial mode results in half of the value but sum of maximum voltage. It could be used also to build a non polarized capacitance with 2 polarized capacitances. +-|}-*{|-+ = -||- C C C/2 From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 04:38:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Matthew Poertner) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 02:38:09 -0700 Subject: [geeks] strange question References: <20010904014058.E23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3B94A101.1010208@mrplaid.com> You should be able to get them from your bank for free. I used to but that was some time ago. -Matt Bill Bradford wrote: >Where the hell can one normally buy checkbook registers? e.g., the little >pad of paper with lines and such you write your checks down on... I normally >get mine when I order new checks, but occasionally I run out of register before >I run out of checks.... > >Bill > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 07:01:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 08:01:53 -0400 Subject: [geeks] strange question References: <20010904014058.E23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <002101c13539$63e75ec0$0301a8c0@kensportege> You should get a computer to help you manage your budget ;^) Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 2:40 AM Subject: [geeks] strange question > Where the hell can one normally buy checkbook registers? e.g., the little > pad of paper with lines and such you write your checks down on... I normally > get mine when I order new checks, but occasionally I run out of register before > I run out of checks.... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 07:04:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 08:04:18 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. References: <20010904012147.Z23531@mrbill.net> <3B947A99.7A667565@avoidant.org> Message-ID: <002d01c13539$ba3c3340$0301a8c0@kensportege> Just a note - thedeal is *not* done yet, and HP has misfired before. I wonder how institutional investors will view HPs purchase of a struggling computer vendor when they are, in fact, struggling themselves? Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 2:54 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. > Bill Bradford wrote: > > > Tomorrow at work (We're a compaq/dec, sun, and minor-HP shop) is going > > to be VERY interesting. > > > Cool, have fun. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 08:00:29 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:00:29 -0400 Subject: [geeks] GAAAHHHH Message-ID: PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST!!! Thanks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 08:03:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 06:03:23 -0700 Subject: [geeks] GAAAHHHH Message-ID: Haha... I thought I was the only one foolish enough to do home renovation (used to make a living at it). My weekend was spent renovating my barn. 1st step, mucking out the horse stalls that were left full and poorly kept (pity the horses but the roses will like the manure). Second step, rent a skid loader and level the earth in the barn. Third step, rent compactor and compact earth in barn. Fourth step, take wood from demolished stalls and build forms where needed. Next step, on Friday the bigmofo cement truck comes and pours cement. I get to wade in ankle deep cement and push a bull float around. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Bradford [mailto:mrbill at mrbill.net] > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 5:48 PM > To: geeks at mrbill.net > Subject: [geeks] GAAAHHHH > > > Past few days: > > Friday: Finish scraping and sanding ceiling in living room, hallway. > Saturday: sit around > Sunday: paint ceiling in living room, hallway, discover it > doesent look > as good as we thought > Today: Rent sprayer, spray up popcorn ceilings > > GOD IM A MESS. My dark blue shirt now looks like denim and I > look like I > spilt cottage cheese all over me. > > bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 08:19:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:19:55 -0400 Subject: [geeks] GAAAHHHH References: Message-ID: <00c401c13544$4a8a2420$0301a8c0@kensportege> You know, for an engineer this should be a trivial effort - just go to the web page below and follow the instructions... > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 9:00 AM Subject: RE: [geeks] GAAAHHHH > > PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST!!! > > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 10:40:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Mosiejczuk) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] strange question In-Reply-To: <20010904014058.E23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > Where the hell can one normally buy checkbook registers? e.g., the little > pad of paper with lines and such you write your checks down on... I normally > get mine when I order new checks, but occasionally I run out of register before > I run out of checks.... > > Bill I usually just ask at the bank. Easy and free =) --Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 11:10:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:10:22 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. In-Reply-To: <002101c1348f$b4130e80$3628020a@Sentoev> References: <20010904012147.Z23531@mrbill.net> <20010904013811.C23531@mrbill.net> <002101c1348f$b4130e80$3628020a@Sentoev> Message-ID: <20010904111022.Y23531@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 09:47:08AM -0600, Wes wrote: > I'm rather frightened by this merger. I work technical support for gateway > and the same company I work for also was a HP outsourcer for their Pavilion > line. I have a compaq Deskpro 6000, which is a horrible POS. It's does all > sorts of bizarre stuff. So...you've got two computer manufacturers that make > rather shotty desktop systems, but decent enough servers. I'm frightened. > The tech support world is going to get even shittier. I'm guessing that HP's PC division will cease to exist, and the "Compaq" side of things will sell PC servers.. while Compaq/DEC has already killed off the Alpha; the server/workstation line will be PA-RISC/IA64. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 11:15:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 12:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. In-Reply-To: <20010904111022.Y23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: > I'm guessing that HP's PC division will cease to exist, and the "Compaq" > side of things will sell PC servers.. while Compaq/DEC has already killed > off the Alpha; the server/workstation line will be PA-RISC/IA64. You're assuming that that the new HP/Compaq suitdom doesn't kill off the PA-RISC in favor of the IA64. From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 11:23:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:23:34 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. In-Reply-To: References: <20010904111022.Y23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010904112334.A23531@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 12:15:23PM -0400, James Sharp wrote: > > I'm guessing that HP's PC division will cease to exist, and the "Compaq" > > side of things will sell PC servers.. while Compaq/DEC has already killed > > off the Alpha; the server/workstation line will be PA-RISC/IA64. > You're assuming that that the new HP/Compaq suitdom doesn't kill off the > PA-RISC in favor of the IA64. They've already done that, basically - just "re-kickstarted" the PA8600 while IA64 was tooling up. IA64 is basically "half Intel, half PARISC", anyway... I think I even read about binary compatibility a couple of years ago, but they may have changed that. This certainly explains the Alpha stuff, though. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 11:28:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Jennings) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:28:42 -0600 Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. References: <20010904012147.Z23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <001601c1355e$a99fbaa0$1839a3ac@internal> OK, Fiorna is on crack.... C to the R to the A to the C to K... Compaq sucks and must die! Why the hell would HP want to throw money away on them??? GRRR! From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 12:16:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:16:55 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. References: <20010904012147.Z23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <000201c13565$93cd9f60$0501000a@laboffice> Every article I have seen comments that the HP-Compaq merger will make the resulting company almost as big as IBM. This implies to me that the press release mentioned this. As IBM has left the home PC market to focus on their corperate market, and HP seems to want to compete with IBM (Judging by the comparisons that I think are in the press release), does this mean that they will pull back from the PC market? Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 2:21 AM Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. > Tomorrow at work (We're a compaq/dec, sun, and minor-HP shop) is going > to be VERY interesting. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 12:20:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] strange question In-Reply-To: <002101c13539$63e75ec0$0301a8c0@kensportege> References: <20010904014058.E23531@mrbill.net> <002101c13539$63e75ec0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010904172015.1DA23EA@proven.weird.com> [ On Tuesday, September 4, 2001 at 08:01:53 (-0400), Ken Hansen wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] strange question > > You should get a computer to help you manage your budget ;^) Nah, computers are too damn complicated. I just use duplicate cheques. No need for a register even, and I have iron-clad proof of any alterations! ;-) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 12:23:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] GAAAHHHH In-Reply-To: <00c401c13544$4a8a2420$0301a8c0@kensportege> References: <00c401c13544$4a8a2420$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010904172346.8F00DEA@proven.weird.com> [ On Tuesday, September 4, 2001 at 09:19:55 (-0400), Ken Hansen wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] GAAAHHHH > > You know, for an engineer this should be a trivial effort - just go to the > web page below and follow the instructions... Engineers don't do things like that -- that's what technicians are for! ;-) (I can probably be reached at some ieee.org address too, so I guess I should be more careful what I say! ;-) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 12:23:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:23:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] strange question In-Reply-To: <20010904172015.1DA23EA@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: > [ On Tuesday, September 4, 2001 at 08:01:53 (-0400), Ken Hansen wrote: ] > > Subject: Re: [geeks] strange question > > > > You should get a computer to help you manage your budget ;^) > > Nah, computers are too damn complicated. > > I just use duplicate cheques. No need for a register even, and I have > iron-clad proof of any alterations! ;-) James's #1 (and only) rule of finance: Hit ATM, if money comes out then I'm not broke. From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 13:41:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 04 Sep 2001 11:41:18 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq In-Reply-To: <20010904183320.WJTR23328.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> References: <20010904183320.WJTR23328.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: <999628879.1365.31.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Tue, 2001-09-04 at 11:31, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > > >> The article said that the combined company would almost be as big as > >> IBM. Anybody know how close either company is by itself? I always > >> thought Compaq was second, next to IBM. I have heard that Acer is > >> third, but that is probably only PCs. > > > >Dell is probably second to IBM, only if you count everything that IBM > >makes. There are a few lines of IBM equipment that Dell doesn't > compete > >for. :-) I know that Dell Laptops and Desktops outsell everyone else > >on the market, and that Compaq was number 1 until Dell beat them. Not > >sure how servers factor into this. IBM hasn't held the sales crown > for > >PC manufacture for a long time. Can anybody say 'PCjr'? > > IBM is tops by far now. 90billion vs 50 for HP and 47 for Compaq. Dell > is at 33. is that 90billion dollars in sales? Does this count their mainframes? Dell sells more notebook and desktop computers than any other x86 manufacturer out there, according to figures that I've gotten. I'll admit that they might be skewed, but they came with numbers of their sales vs the sales of compaq and ibm. Give us some context so that we know what you're saying. Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 13:50:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 14:50:19 -0400 Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010903012449.M28412@zilla.nu> References: <20010831201006.D712C11F85@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010831220105.A19420@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> <20010903020727.A14623@cs.millersville.edu> <20010903012449.M28412@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010904145019.A8594@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 01:24:49AM -0500, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 02:07:27AM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > > Anyone know why Apple didn't stick with DisplayPostscript, or just simply > > switch to display Ghostscript? > > Licensing. One of the huge cost problems of NeXTStep was in the PS > licensing, from what I understand. DisplayGhostscript would give 2 licensing choices. First, GPL the display server, or pay a small licensing fee to Alladin. I don't know what that licensing fee would be, but I hear that it is far, far cheaper than Adobe. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 13:51:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 14:51:12 -0400 Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010903063859.4938EE8@proven.weird.com> References: <20010831201006.D712C11F85@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010831220105.A19420@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> <20010903020727.A14623@cs.millersville.edu> <20010903063859.4938EE8@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010904145112.B8594@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 02:38:59AM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote: > [ On Monday, September 3, 2001 at 02:07:27 (-0400), Joshua D Boyd wrote: ] > > Subject: Re: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... > > > > Anyone know why Apple didn't stick with DisplayPostscript, or just simply > > switch to display Ghostscript? > > DisplayPostScript is a licensed product of Adobe -- as I undersand > that's what they wanted to go with in the first place. But DisplayGhostscript doesn't have anything to do with Adobe. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 13:54:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 19:54:38 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! Message-ID: <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> All, By now I think you all know my feelings about rape. I mean if my last post on firearms safety didnt make it clear I dont know what would right. And I think most of you know my feelings on personal responsibility as well. Anyway something very very bad has happened in the last few days. Last wednesday I had a small party at my new house, not really a housewarming, jsut a celebration that I finally had a real nice place to live. There were 8 people there age 20 - 30, and the legal drinking age in Ireland is 18. This was a normal, 'adult' dinner party not a wild drinking binge party. I fed my guests (rather well actually, they were all so stuffed they could barely move) and a LARGE quantity of alcohol was consumed by most. Several of my guests decided to stay over, which I was fine with, and had in fact prepared for that eventuality. Two of them, who once had a relationship decided to have sex that night. As it happens they started having sex right in front of me so I can testify to the fact that it was consensual in every way. They were both drinking, and they were both intoxicated, however not to the point where competent and informed consent could not be made. As further confirmation she requested condom use before they continued, and after condoms were procured she was quite happy to do so. They had sex for several hours and went through all of my condoms. Twice during intercourse the condoms broke. The young woman was VERY upset by this fact but this did not prevent her from continuing to have intercourse, however afterwards she seemed very concerned about the possibility of pregnancy. Both individuals are 20 years old, both are college students who live with their parents. The next day she and I discussed what occurred, speciafically we discussed personal responsibility. While we were talking she admited that she had made a choice to have sex, and that it was stupid, and she was absolutely terrified of being pregnant. She then stayed at my home, along with the yong man in question, and several new guests who are friends of both of them and myself through another dinner party, and went home with them all at 3am. She had great fun at this second dinner party and her state of mind was fine. A bit about me, I was a rape and abuse peer counselor during high school and college. I have helped counsel many rape victims, including my own aunt who lived with my family while I was growing up. I was also a drug counselor as well. I have medical training from the USAFR in preperation for becoming a pararescueman, and I was a certified nurses assistant and licensed practical nurse in the state of Arizona. I am trained to recognize the physical and psychological indications of rape, and the indications of drug use. On Saturday evening the young ladies mother found a used pregnancy test. Abortion is illegal in Ireland however the high court has decided that they will not legally prevent someone who has been raped from traveling to england to get an abortion. Later that evening a rape charge was filed against the young man in question. As the young woman admitted to consent, a charge of drugging was also made. Yesterday (Monday morning) I was woken up by Gardai walking into my bedroom. No knock, they jsut walked in my door (I had left it unlocked because I live in a guarded community and I hate having to use a key to get out of my own house) up into my bedroom and I woke up with a strange man walking towards me. Had this been the states there would have been a gun pointed at the man before he took another step, however as it is illegal to own the proper self protection measures in Ireland all I could do was wait to see what happened. They searched my house, completely tearing it apart for several hours. They then questioned me for several hours. All told they were in my home for about seven hours. After they questioned me they siezed all of my photographic equipment including several rolls of exposed film, my webcam, all of my computers including my primary laptop, two DEC servers running tru64, my intergraph, my Amiga, three lowend plain PC's my really high end gaming system, and assorted other computing equipment, as well as the botle of vodka that I keep in the freezer, but not any of the other alcohol, nor any of the empty bottles from the party which were still in the house. They also seized all of my data backups, my external CD-RW, every DVD and video cassette I had in the house, and several adult magazines. They were so clueless about computers they actually asked me to show them how to log in to the systems, and to show them any adult materials I might have on the systems. I did so, knowing that by allowing me to touch the systems they had destroyed any evidentiary value they may have had. I mean I could have had an autowipe setup on there and they wouldnt have known the diference. I wonder what they are going to do when they investigate the Tru64 systems and cant find anyone who knows what they are. My friend was arrested this morning. The Gardai will not of course say when of if I will recieve my systems, or more importantly my data back. Situations like this are why I have two of my main life rules 1. Never have sex with drunk people 2. Always keep an offsite backup, preferably that only you know about. Unfortunately I wasnt following rule #2 and so I'm fairly screwed for that data. Chris Byrne From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 14:08:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Reagen B. Ward) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 14:08:15 -0500 Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010904145019.A8594@cs.millersville.edu>; from jdboyd@cs.millersville.edu on Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 02:50:19PM -0400 References: <20010831220105.A19420@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> <20010903020727.A14623@cs.millersville.edu> <20010903012449.M28412@zilla.nu> <20010904145019.A8594@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010904140815.E4209@rs.rackshack.net> Joshua D Boyd wrote: > DisplayGhostscript would give 2 licensing choices. First, GPL the display > server, or pay a small licensing fee to Alladin. I don't know what that > licensing fee would be, but I hear that it is far, far cheaper than Adobe. Probably a lot faster and cheaper to do it in PDF than to fix DGS. I did a very brief look into DGS, and it looks to be as complete as GNUStep. Reagen From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 14:22:37 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:22:37 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> References: <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> Message-ID: > You aren't in danger of charges are you? If the drugging was mentioned then there needs to be layers for you too or you might get dragged into that. (IANAL, just cautious) >Situations like this are why I have two of my main life rules I would add a rule 0: Nobody but are allowed to have sex in my (our?) house. >1. Never have sex with drunk people >2. Always keep an offsite backup, preferably that only you know about. > >Unfortunately I wasnt following rule #2 and so I'm fairly screwed for that >data. How much of that is related to your business? I know of people who have been put out of bussiness because their systems were taken as evidence and they were a third party. I think the government here is required to do something if they can't get your equipment back to you in a "reasonable" period of time. daniel From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 14:26:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:26:55 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Q: Regarding low/no-cost Oracle licenses for training purposes Message-ID: <32793E399570D511842A0002B35B4AD923BDA2@ICTI_MAIL> Subject line say it all, my company is consiering a migration to Oracle, and I have a deep personal interest in rediscovering my previous Oracle exp. I would like to set up a "good" personal Oracle machine for home training purposes. My thought is to set up my Ultra 2 w/dual 300 MHz CPUs & 512 Meg RAM but would that be a reasonable box? I have not touched Oracle since Oracle 7.4, and it is my hope to get a system as close as possible to a "real, production-level" system. What level of Oracle is good and stable - 8.X? 9.X? Other? On a completely different plane, would an SS/5-170 w/256 Meg be reasonable (again, no production load, just trivial testing/development work)? What about my SPARCbook 3TX (SS/5-170 CPU equivalent) w/128 Meg RAM - just a bad idea to try??? Oh, and licenses are freely available for persoanl/non-commercial use, correct? Pointers to good books appreciated as well... I'm sending this from my office, so I may not see your replies until tonight... Thanks in advance, Ken From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 14:28:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:28:33 -0400 Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010904140815.E4209@rs.rackshack.net> References: <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> <20010903020727.A14623@cs.millersville.edu> <20010903012449.M28412@zilla.nu> <20010904145019.A8594@cs.millersville.edu> <20010904140815.E4209@rs.rackshack.net> Message-ID: <20010904152833.A9309@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 02:08:15PM -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > > DisplayGhostscript would give 2 licensing choices. First, GPL the display > > server, or pay a small licensing fee to Alladin. I don't know what that > > licensing fee would be, but I hear that it is far, far cheaper than Adobe. > > Probably a lot faster and cheaper to do it in PDF than to fix DGS. I did > a very brief look into DGS, and it looks to be as complete as GNUStep. I would think that Apple, having access to all the DisplayPostscript code would be able to very rapidly create a new DisplayGhostscript using the DisplayPostscript code as a reference. I mean, Apple doesn't own Postscript, but if you take DisplayPostscript, and subtract the Postscript, they would own the remainder, wouldn't they? And that remander would hopefully have been written well enough to give them a jumpstart on a new DisplayGhostscript. As it was, they didn't license PDF, but instead did it from scratch, so being able to reuse Ghostscript should have been a help, unless Ghostscript is really crap? -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 14:33:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Mosiejczuk) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Q: Regarding low/no-cost Oracle licenses for training purposes In-Reply-To: <32793E399570D511842A0002B35B4AD923BDA2@ICTI_MAIL> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > My thought is to set up my Ultra 2 w/dual 300 MHz CPUs & 512 Meg RAM but > would that be a reasonable box? > > On a completely different plane, would an SS/5-170 w/256 Meg be reasonable? > What about my SPARCbook 3TX (SS/5-170 CPU equivalent) w/128 Meg RAM - just > a bad idea to try??? All three of the systems should be fine. Heck, the Ultra 2 is beefier than some systems we have in production. The biggest thing oracle wants is memory. Next is disk space, but mainly for data, so if you don't have much data, you won't need much disk. --Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 14:34:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Brian Hechinger) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:34:01 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Q: Regarding low/no-cost Oracle licenses for training purposes In-Reply-To: ; from kurt@csh.rit.edu on Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 03:33:11PM -0400 References: <32793E399570D511842A0002B35B4AD923BDA2@ICTI_MAIL> Message-ID: <20010904153401.E29212@wintermute.arkham.ws> On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 03:33:11PM -0400, Kurt Mosiejczuk wrote: > > The biggest thing oracle wants is memory. Next is disk space, but mainly > for data, so if you don't have much data, you won't need much disk. the more RAM the better. oracle can use it ALL. also, to answer the other question. starting with 8i you can install oracle using a Developer License. it's free. you may use it as long as you want. you may not use it in production. i don't know how that relates to home/hobbyist use though. -brian From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 14:36:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:36:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] strange question References: <20010904014058.E23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <11fa01c13578$f8122190$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > Where the hell can one normally buy checkbook registers? e.g., the little > pad of paper with lines and such you write your checks down on... I normally > get mine when I order new checks, but occasionally I run out of register before > I run out of checks.... > > Here in the NE we have an odd little store called Job Lot (midwesterners may know them as Odd Lots). They sell all kinds of discontinued, last season, warehouse overruns, insurance claims, not pouplar, whatever kind of stuff. I just bought a three-pack of registers from there for 99 cents. Anyplace like that down in Texas? Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 14:41:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Reagen B. Ward) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 14:41:17 -0500 Subject: [geeks] strange question In-Reply-To: <11fa01c13578$f8122190$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH>; from kurt@k-huhn.com on Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 03:36:52PM -0400 References: <20010904014058.E23531@mrbill.net> <11fa01c13578$f8122190$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010904144117.H4209@rs.rackshack.net> Kurt Huhn wrote: > Here in the NE we have an odd little store called Job Lot (midwesterners may > know them as Odd Lots). They sell all kinds of discontinued, last season, > warehouse overruns, insurance claims, not pouplar, whatever kind of stuff. > I just bought a three-pack of registers from there for 99 cents. Anyplace > like that down in Texas? Yup, Big Lots. Probably the same company. Reagen From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 14:50:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 20:50:55 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! References: <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> Message-ID: <010001c1357a$ee51b920$7100000a@deepthought> As of now there are no charges contemplated against me, but as I do have professional medical training and it was in my house then if they decide she had a diminished capacity, that I should have recognized it and prevented anything further from occurring etc...etc... As far as getting the equipment back, remember what happened to Steve Jackson Games? And in Ireland there have been some recent laws enacted on sex crimes that would make US civil liberties lawyers shit themselves. Chris Byrne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Big Endian" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 20:22 Subject: Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! > > > > You aren't in danger of charges are you? If the drugging was > mentioned then there needs to be layers for you too or you might get > dragged into that. (IANAL, just cautious) > > >Situations like this are why I have two of my main life rules > > I would add a rule 0: Nobody but > are allowed to have sex in my (our?) house. > > >1. Never have sex with drunk people > >2. Always keep an offsite backup, preferably that only you know about. > > > >Unfortunately I wasnt following rule #2 and so I'm fairly screwed for that > >data. > > How much of that is related to your business? I know of people who > have been put out of bussiness because their systems were taken as > evidence and they were a third party. I think the government here is > required to do something if they can't get your equipment back to you > in a "reasonable" period of time. > > daniel > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 14:51:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Reagen B. Ward) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 14:51:54 -0500 Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010904152833.A9309@cs.millersville.edu>; from jdboyd@cs.millersville.edu on Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 03:28:33PM -0400 References: <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> <20010903020727.A14623@cs.millersville.edu> <20010903012449.M28412@zilla.nu> <20010904145019.A8594@cs.millersville.edu> <20010904140815.E4209@rs.rackshack.net> <20010904152833.A9309@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010904145154.J4209@rs.rackshack.net> Joshua D Boyd wrote: > I would think that Apple, having access to all the DisplayPostscript code > would be able to very rapidly create a new DisplayGhostscript using the > DisplayPostscript code as a reference. Or just use a PS reference book. > I mean, Apple doesn't own Postscript, but if you take DisplayPostscript, > and subtract the Postscript, they would own the remainder, wouldn't > they? And that remander would hopefully have been written well enough to > give them a jumpstart on a new DisplayGhostscript. Well, if you yank out the PS from NeXTStep's DPS, you just have the display portion, and that part won't be very different whether it's DPS, DDVI, DPDF, or whatever. > As it was, they didn't license PDF, but instead did it from scratch, so > being able to reuse Ghostscript should have been a help, unless > Ghostscript is really crap? Ghostscript is far from fast, and I've had problems with some of its interpretation. DGS is very X centric (by design), and I imagine that it was a lot easier to use pre-existing objects than to convert and optimize someone else's code. Yup, Apple did it from scratch, but it was easy. They already had nice PDF objects to build upon, and there's no benefit to going with DGS over DPDF. Plus, PDF is recognizeable to the masses, PS is not. When you need to market your product, it's good to use things the market recognizes. Reagen From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 14:55:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:55:59 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! References: <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> Message-ID: <12b801c1357b$a1803cb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > The Gardai will not of course say when of if I will recieve my systems, or > more importantly my data back. > > This, my friends, is why I live in the US. Anybody else see the Dateline (or something) segment on Virgin, Utah? All households (yep, all 320 of em) are required to have a firearm in them, and the occupants *must* know how to use it. It's a law. The crime rate is 0%. No that wasn't directly relateable. And yes, this could happen anywhere. But the laws in the US would protect the homeowner from such violations of what we US citizens call basic inviolable rights. NEVER would your property be confiscated - we call that "illegal search and seizure". Not to knock Ireland, but the news from there the last few days is anything but good... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 14:58:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 20:58:39 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! References: <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> <12b801c1357b$a1803cb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <012501c1357c$00a82180$7100000a@deepthought> I say again, remember what happened to Steve Jackson Games? If a judge writes out a broad enough warrant they can sieze whatever the hell they want no matter what. They MAY have to give it back to you eventually if you fight for it. Chris Byrne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt Huhn" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 20:55 Subject: Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! > > > > The Gardai will not of course say when of if I will recieve my systems, or > > more importantly my data back. > > > > > > This, my friends, is why I live in the US. > > Anybody else see the Dateline (or something) segment on Virgin, Utah? All > households (yep, all 320 of em) are required to have a firearm in them, and > the occupants *must* know how to use it. It's a law. The crime rate is 0%. > > No that wasn't directly relateable. And yes, this could happen anywhere. > But the laws in the US would protect the homeowner from such violations of > what we US citizens call basic inviolable rights. NEVER would your property > be confiscated - we call that "illegal search and seizure". > > Not to knock Ireland, but the news from there the last few days is anything > but good... > > Kurt > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 15:17:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 16:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <12b801c1357b$a1803cb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: Nice theory. That is what the constitution says, and what is supposed to happen. That is however not what usually happens. I've had my "rights" violated by the police many times. Anyone been following the storys on what the police in PG county Maryland have been doing? The problem we're running into is "who watches the watchers". Every last "watcher" must be 100% reliable or the whole system falls apart. For instance I've got long hair, this *IS NOT* probable cause to search me for drugs. So what do I do when I, my friends who are with me, my car, anything else nearby get searched and detained for 2-3 hrs? Tell them "no I won't let you search me"? That will quite possibly get them a warrent. Report them afterwards? no thanks. Nick On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > This, my friends, is why I live in the US. > Anybody else see the Dateline (or something) segment on Virgin, Utah? All > households (yep, all 320 of em) are required to have a firearm in them, and > the occupants *must* know how to use it. It's a law. The crime rate is 0%. > No that wasn't directly relateable. And yes, this could happen anywhere. > But the laws in the US would protect the homeowner from such violations of > what we US citizens call basic inviolable rights. NEVER would your property > be confiscated - we call that "illegal search and seizure". > Not to knock Ireland, but the news from there the last few days is anything > but good... > Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 15:38:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:38:52 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage Message-ID: <20010904153852.E23531@mrbill.net> http://images.sunhelp.org/workpics Got a "JamCam 3.0" on sale for $29 at Frys today (normal price $49) and took some pics of the datacenter here at work so my mom can see where I spend my days... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 15:50:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:50:51 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> References: <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> Message-ID: <20010904155051.H23531@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 07:54:38PM +0100, Chris Byrne wrote: > 2. Always keep an offsite backup, preferably that only you know about. > Unfortunately I wasnt following rule #2 and so I'm fairly screwed for that > data. First, good luck. Second, thats why all of my stuff is on a colocated server thats not in my house. If someone takes my computers from the house, they get some MP3s, maybe, and thats it. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 16:49:10 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 17:49:10 EDT Subject: [geeks] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq References: Message-ID: <01352174910.dave.13537@cca.org> linc at thelinuxlink.net writes: >> Whats wrong with SCO?? I LIKE SCO, its a nice OS... >> >> Will J >I like SCO as well.. It's a pain in the rear sometimes but it runs like a >tank when ya get it going. I think they are afraid... (real UNIX(tm) on a >PC? Oh No!) [moved to geeks] SCO sucks so hard! I can't *wait* to replace the one SCO box at work! Add a second scsi drive, and it wants to *rebuild* the kernel! *Glance* at the package instalation software and it kicks all inittab getty entries to 9600 baud! THANKS! It's fast and runs reliably, but I'd rather admin a pack of rabid dogs. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- -------- If it wasn't for good luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all. ------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 16:49:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 17:49:55 EDT Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! References: <12b801c1357b$a1803cb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <01352174955.dave.13825@cca.org> kurt at k-huhn.com writes: >This, my friends, is why I live in the US. >Anybody else see the Dateline (or something) segment on Virgin, Utah? All >households (yep, all 320 of em) are required to have a firearm in them, and >the occupants *must* know how to use it. It's a law. The crime rate is 0%. >No that wasn't directly relateable. And yes, this could happen anywhere. >But the laws in the US would protect the homeowner from such violations of >what we US citizens call basic inviolable rights. NEVER would your property >be confiscated - we call that "illegal search and seizure". You have *GOT* to be kidding! They take whatever they want, and shoot you if they're in the mood. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- -------- If it wasn't for good luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all. ------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 17:02:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:02:58 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! References: <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought><00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> <5.1.0.14.2.20010904150345.03000500@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <001e01c1358d$604d15d0$7100000a@deepthought> I'm arranging a solicitor at the moment. I am the only witness to the act being consensual, however there were several people who could testify to her state of mind that day and after the fact etc... etc... What really pisses me off is that there were no charges files until three days later after her mom found a frikken pregnancy test. That says it all right there for me Chris Byrne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Reed" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 23:06 Subject: Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! > Chris, you HAVE contacted a barrister haven't you? to find out what > protections you can take and what you can do about getting your belongings > back. are you the only one that witnessed that it was consensual? > > At 03:50 PM 9/4/01 -0500, you wrote: > >On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 07:54:38PM +0100, Chris Byrne wrote: > > > 2. Always keep an offsite backup, preferably that only you know about. > > > Unfortunately I wasnt following rule #2 and so I'm fairly screwed for that > > > data. > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 17:06:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:06:12 -0500 Subject: [geeks] FS: CiscoPro FastSwitch 10/00 Message-ID: <20010904170611.I23531@mrbill.net> I've got a Cisco CiscoPro FastSwitch 10/100 27-port switch (25 10baseT, 2 100baseT) for sale. Has Grand Junction logo and coloring, but has the latest Cisco firmware loaded. Works great; this is the younger brother of the Catalyst 2100. Only difference is that it has a one-MAC-address-per-port restriction, so you cant cascade other hubs/switches off of it. Rackmount, 4U. Pictures at http://images.sunhelp.org/rack. $75 plus shipping from Austin, TX. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 17:06:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Geoff Reed) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:06:15 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <20010904155051.H23531@mrbill.net> References: <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010904150345.03000500@mail.zipcon.net> Chris, you HAVE contacted a barrister haven't you? to find out what protections you can take and what you can do about getting your belongings back. are you the only one that witnessed that it was consensual? At 03:50 PM 9/4/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 07:54:38PM +0100, Chris Byrne wrote: > > 2. Always keep an offsite backup, preferably that only you know about. > > Unfortunately I wasnt following rule #2 and so I'm fairly screwed for that > > data. From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 17:06:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Brian Hechinger) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 18:06:58 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <001e01c1358d$604d15d0$7100000a@deepthought>; from chris@chrisbyrne.com on Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 11:02:58PM +0100 References: <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought><00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> <5.1.0.14.2.20010904150345.03000500@mail.zipcon.net> <001e01c1358d$604d15d0$7100000a@deepthought> Message-ID: <20010904180658.L29212@wintermute.arkham.ws> On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 11:02:58PM +0100, Chris Byrne wrote: > > What really pisses me off is that there were no charges files until three > days later after her mom found a frikken pregnancy test. That says it all > right there for me if this isn't good proof why abortion should be legal i don't know what is. this poor guy is going to get his life COMPLETELY fucked up over this. and look what you are going through right now because of it. also, someone should bitchslap this chick's mom but hard. -brian From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 17:27:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Tugrul Galatali) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:27:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [geeks] Q: Regarding low/no-cost Oracle licenses for training purposes In-Reply-To: <32793E399570D511842A0002B35B4AD923BDA2@ICTI_MAIL> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > My thought is to set up my Ultra 2 w/dual 300 MHz CPUs & 512 Meg RAM but would that be a reasonable box? I have not touched Oracle since Oracle 7.4, and it is my hope to get a system as close as possible to a "real, production-level" system. What level of Oracle is good and stable - 8.X? 9.X? Other? > > On a completely different plane, would an SS/5-170 w/256 Meg be reasonable (again, no production load, just trivial testing/development work)? What about my SPARCbook 3TX (SS/5-170 CPU equivalent) w/128 Meg RAM - just a bad idea to try??? > A company I used to work at had it on a E450 4x360Mhz 1GB but all of our needs ended up being faithfully served by a U1/143Mhz 512MB iirc. Oracle 8.1.x is my favorite rev and DB. Haven't tried the 9.xs. > Oh, and licenses are freely available for persoanl/non-commercial use, correct? Developer License... its a learners permit ;) > Pointers to good books appreciated as well... I love Oracle 8 The Complete Reference (ISBN 0-07-88-2396-X). Its not for beginners, but for application development, it covers everything. Anyone got a suggestion more on the DBA side? I need to take up some of their duties now and then. Tugrul Galatali From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 19:19:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 20:19:27 EDT Subject: [geeks] Printers, Printers, Programming, Terminal Servers, and Writingish Message-ID: <20010905002148.FYEM23328.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Couple of questions here: I'm wanting a label printer that can also do barcodes. Can anyone reccomend a good, small, serial label printer where the costs of materials is not too much? Unix compatablility is a must. I also want a laser printer that understands postscript and has a network interface. 100baseT would be nice but 100baseT would work. The cheaper the better. Third, I need reccomendations on a good terminal server. All I need is like 4+ ports and ethernet connection. Rackmount and internal power supply would be real nice. All the recent talk about formatting languages and my long desire to learn one has sparked my interest but I have no idea which one to learn. Any suggestions for something? I'd really like it if there was a "Introduction to ..." or a tutorial website. Lastly, I want write some GUI apps for X11. I know C++ pretty well and have been spoiled silly by BeOS's wonderfull API. But looking quickly at QT and GTK left me with a bad taste in my mouth, is there something better than these? Or a different language that would work? I'd like some cross-platform best which was why I was looking at QT but that's not absolutely necessary. I need to access databases and possibly do other simple networking. If anybody has something for sale that would work for me please contact me off list. TIA Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 19:47:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 20:47:55 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Fwd: SPECIAL NEWS ALERT (posted 09/04/01) Message-ID: <01090420492203.13251@two-time.twmaster.com> I am an Interex member, nice announcment. -Mike N ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: SPECIAL NEWS ALERT (posted 09/04/01) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 14:20:11 -0700 From: "hotnews-editor at interex.org" ************************************************************************** Hot News for HP Computer Users A Weekly Update from Interex http://www.interex.org ************************************************************************** Dear Mike, This is your special Hot News alert produced by Interex. SPECIAL NEWS ALERT (posted 09/04/01) - Hewlett-Packard Co. announced today that it will buy Compaq Computer Corp. for $25 billion in stock, creating a mega-company that will compete with giant IBM. Company officials said they would lay off about 15,000 people as part of the deal. The new, combined company will retain the Hewlett-Packard name and Carly Fiorina as CEO. MORE ON THIS STORY FROM AROUND THE WEB: HP Risks All With Compaq Purchase http://www.forbes.com/work/managementtrends/2001/09/04/0904hppackage.html HP to axe Tru64 Unix? http://www.vnunet.com/News/1125163 CEO Calls HP-Compaq Merger A 'Big Damn Deal' http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/169712.html HP-Compaq Deal Could Spark Antitrust Inquiry http://www.washtech.com/news/software/12292-1.html Top to Bottom: HP, Compaq Merger Shows Off Overlaps http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/breakingnews.asp?ArticleID=29494 HP/Compaq Channel Strategy Up In The Air http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/breakingnews.asp?ArticleID=29506 HP and Compaq: The big chiefs speak http://www.silicon.com/public/door?6004REQEVENT=&REQINT1=47113&REQSTR1=silicon.com Why HP went for Compaq http://www.silicon.com/public/door?6004REQEVENT=&REQINT1=47109&REQSTR1=silicon.com HP and Compaq: The five best quotes yet http://www.silicon.com/public/door?REQUNIQ=999623895&6004REQEVENT=&REQINT1=47107&REQSTR1=ne wsnow Official press release: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/04sep01a.htm From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 19:57:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 20:57:59 EDT Subject: [geeks] Printers, Printers, Programming, Terminal Servers, and Writingish Message-ID: <01352205759.dave.7960@cca.org> legodude at hammycorp.com writes: >I also want a laser printer that understands postscript and has a >network interface. 100baseT would be nice but 100baseT would work. The >cheaper the better. If you've got ethernet between the host & printer, then running ghostscript on the host works really nicely. >Third, I need reccomendations on a good terminal server. All I need is >like 4+ ports and ethernet connection. Rackmount and internal power >supply would be real nice. My netblazer is really nice. I don't know anything about their low-end though. >All the recent talk about formatting languages and my long desire to >learn one has sparked my interest but I have no idea which one to >learn. Any suggestions for something? I'd really like it if there was a >"Introduction to ..." or a tutorial website. If you're doing single pages (flyers, posters) just use postscript. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- -------- If it wasn't for good luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all. ------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 19:58:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 20:58:04 EDT Subject: [geeks] audiophiles again References: <20010904192912.Z28412@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <01352205804.dave.10037@cca.org> ward at zilla.nu writes: >It all started with me restoring AA5 radios. Then I built a guitar amp >for a pal. Then I built a few theremins for local musicians. Now I'm >being asked about hi-fi equipment! What do you know about power amps? My friend has a ~3000 watt rig for playing out, and he keeps blowing the heads. (I think he's got crossovers splitting it up to three heads. Not sure.) -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- -------- If it wasn't for good luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all. ------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 20:23:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (jrr) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 22:23:40 -0300 Subject: [geeks] Checkers Message-ID: <000701c135a9$666ab960$83cab1c8@jrr> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C13590.3F93D420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi I'm searching for the game Checkers from book 101 computer basic games. Do you have the listing ? Thank you Roberto ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C13590.3F93D420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi
 
I'm searching for the game Checkers from book 101 = computer=20 basic games.
Do you have the listing ?
 
Thank you
 
Roberto
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C13590.3F93D420-- From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 20:48:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 02:48:45 +0100 Subject: Abortion (was Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! References: Message-ID: <001401c135ac$e89a2df0$01000001@deepthought> My personal philosophy on the subject is simple I believe abortion is morally wrong as a waste of the potential that a human life offers. No religious implication here at all, nothing about playing god. I also believe that it is non of my god damned business to tell you what your morals ought to be. And finally, I believe that effective birth control, and yes even abortion are necessary in the society (ies) that we have created over the past hundred or so years (mostly since LBJ actually) that denigrates personal responsibility and self reliance and encourages dependance, and external governance. Until and unless every individual is always willing to accept all the consequences of all their actions, abortion will be a necessary part of our society to prevent yet more misery, dependency and external governance. Chris Byrne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tugrul Galatali" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 03:37 Subject: Abortion (was Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! > On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Brian Hechinger wrote: > > > if this isn't good proof why abortion should be legal i don't know what is. > > this poor guy is going to get his life COMPLETELY fucked up over this. and > > look what you are going through right now because of it. also, someone should > > bitchslap this chick's mom but hard. > > I haven't read this thread too closely (poor Chris ;(), but what does > this have to do with the legality of abortion. Just because they can't > elimnate the consequences of their actions doesn't mean this had to be blown > up into a rape case that is dragging innocent bystanders into the grave. The > fact that the mom pushed this to another plateau is what I consider a childish > way of handling this delicate situation. Its not the parents that have to > consent, its the adults involved. > > I'm not against abortion on any religious high, just on principle. > > Tugrul Galatali > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 20:52:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Brian Hechinger) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 21:52:23 -0400 Subject: Abortion (was Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: ; from tugrul@galatali.com on Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:37:56PM -0500 References: <20010904180658.L29212@wintermute.arkham.ws> Message-ID: <20010904215223.P29212@wintermute.arkham.ws> On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:37:56PM -0500, Tugrul Galatali wrote: > > I haven't read this thread too closely (poor Chris ;(), but what does > this have to do with the legality of abortion. Just because they can't > elimnate the consequences of their actions doesn't mean this had to be blown > up into a rape case that is dragging innocent bystanders into the grave. The > fact that the mom pushed this to another plateau is what I consider a childish > way of handling this delicate situation. Its not the parents that have to > consent, its the adults involved. see, here lies the problem. if someone absolutely wants an abortion, it's far too easy to scream rape and fuck someone's life up. is it right? no. but sadly it's going to be far more common than is reasonable. people are slime. there are a LOT of people out there who would have NO qualms about fucking up YOUR life to make their's better. it's not right, it's reality. not being there i can't say, but it's obviously this girl's mother pushing her to do this and if this girl has any decency in her body she will stand up in court and say that it absolutely was not rape. her mom is probably holding something over her in order to force her into this, and for that her mom is the one who should be going to jail, not the guy. > I'm not against abortion on any religious high, just on principle. i'm not stating my position because i refuse to get into a flamewar about this subject. -brian From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 21:01:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Brian Hechinger) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 22:01:20 -0400 Subject: Abortion (was Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <000b01c135af$bc362ae0$0301a8c0@kensportege>; from n2vip@yahoo.com on Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 10:09:02PM -0400 References: <001401c135ac$e89a2df0$01000001@deepthought> <000b01c135af$bc362ae0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010904220120.R29212@wintermute.arkham.ws> On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 10:09:02PM -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > > I would like this thread to stop, only because it is so severly off-topic... i would normally agree with you. especially since i am so sick and tired of this old argument, but this is geeks and "anything goes" so sorry. :( got procmail? i do. it's a neat tool. got a couple email address in there of people i don't EVER want to hear from again. i like that. so since this is such a "hot" topic, let's just promise to not ever chance the subject and then you can just filter it out as you please. sound good? -brian From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 21:09:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 22:09:02 -0400 Subject: Abortion (was Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! References: <001401c135ac$e89a2df0$01000001@deepthought> Message-ID: <000b01c135af$bc362ae0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Wow - could this thread possibly end on a happy note, or do we *have* to wait for someone to earn a "subscriber abortion"? I would like this thread to stop, only because it is so severly off-topic... Juat my $.02, Ken Oh, and I have an opinion on abortion, but it has no relevence to anyone else but me, so it will stay with me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Byrne" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 9:48 PM Subject: Re: Abortion (was Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! > My personal philosophy on the subject is simple _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 21:10:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Matthew Poertner) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 19:10:02 -0700 Subject: Abortion (was Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! References: <001401c135ac$e89a2df0$01000001@deepthought> <000b01c135af$bc362ae0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <3B95897A.5000702@mrplaid.com> I agree... Lets abort it. I've seen some good lists ruined by subject matter this controversial and off -topic. -Matt Ken Hansen wrote: >Wow - could this thread possibly end on a happy note, or do we *have* to >wait for someone to earn a "subscriber abortion"? > >I would like this thread to stop, only because it is so severly off-topic... > >Juat my $.02, > >Ken >Oh, and I have an opinion on abortion, but it has no relevence to anyone >else but me, so it will stay with me. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Chris Byrne" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 9:48 PM >Subject: Re: Abortion (was Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! > > >>My personal philosophy on the subject is simple >> > > > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >_______________________________________________ >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 21:11:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 21:11:12 -0500 Subject: [geeks] MacOS X & ethernet Message-ID: <20010904211112.C24237@mrbill.net> Anybody know how to lock the ethernet port on a mac running OS X to 100megabit full duplex or 10megabit half? Having autoneg problems with a built-in switch on an RT314. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 21:37:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Tugrul Galatali) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 21:37:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Abortion (was Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <20010904180658.L29212@wintermute.arkham.ws> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Brian Hechinger wrote: > if this isn't good proof why abortion should be legal i don't know what is. > this poor guy is going to get his life COMPLETELY fucked up over this. and > look what you are going through right now because of it. also, someone should > bitchslap this chick's mom but hard. I haven't read this thread too closely (poor Chris ;(), but what does this have to do with the legality of abortion. Just because they can't elimnate the consequences of their actions doesn't mean this had to be blown up into a rape case that is dragging innocent bystanders into the grave. The fact that the mom pushed this to another plateau is what I consider a childish way of handling this delicate situation. Its not the parents that have to consent, its the adults involved. I'm not against abortion on any religious high, just on principle. Tugrul Galatali From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 21:57:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 22:57:22 EDT Subject: [geeks] audiophiles again References: <20010904213201.J28412@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <01352225722.dave.8152@cca.org> ward at zilla.nu writes: >On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 08:58:04PM -0400, dave at cca.org wrote: >> What do you know about power amps? My friend has a ~3000 watt rig >> for playing out, and he keeps blowing the heads. (I think he's got >> crossovers splitting it up to three heads. Not sure.) >At that power, I'd assume it's solid-state? I know as much about them >as I know about anything else, I assume. How are the speakers rated? No clue. Part of the problem is the heads overheating. They have tiny fans on them which are completely insufficient. >In home hi-fi, I'd wager that he's trying to push speakers with too >little power, but 3000 watts is a HELL of a lot. It's about two six foot stacks of speaker cabinets. Take a look: http://fortthunder.org/music/lb/photos/v-lb.jpg You can see the amp heads piled up on the left stack. Actually, he hasn't had that much trouble since going to 3000 watts. At 2000 or so, he'd put everything on 10 and have a head fail almost every show. (Mostly overheating and getting better a few hours later, occasionally permenant damage.) -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- --------- "I prefer the rediculous to the sublime." - James Chance --------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 22:04:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:04:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! References: Message-ID: <12eb01c135b7$76505cf0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > warrent. Report them afterwards? no thanks. Hmmm. I guess I have no fear. I would report it. How else will anyone know? Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 22:17:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:17:57 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! References: <12b801c1357b$a1803cb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <01352174955.dave.13825@cca.org> Message-ID: <130d01c135b9$5f48e840$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > You have *GOT* to be kidding! > > They take whatever they want, and shoot you if they're in the mood. > Wow - talk about a dark view. I guess I partly have no fear of the law enforcement folks because I don't do anything wrong/stupid that would illicit their attention (aside from driving too fast, but even at that..). Perhaps I'm ignorant to how other folks are treated by law enforcement - but I've never been mistreated. Even after tearing past a police officer at well over 150MPH one day, I drove away with a ticket for 10MPH over the limit. Lucky? Maybe - but I like to think that I know how to conduct myself - and a little humor doesn't ever hurt either. I don't subscribe to the thought of "evil police". In fact, I get along quite well with all the officers in my locality. It never hurts to interact with the local officers either. Wave at them when they're directing traffic, say hello at the coffee shop, strike up a converstion about nothing in particular, and if you own guns be sure to go down and let the Chief know - in some localities this is a requirement (check your local laws). Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 22:23:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 20:23:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: <20010904153852.E23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > http://images.sunhelp.org/workpics > Cool. Too bad I can't do the same. :-( -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 22:24:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 20:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <20010904155051.H23531@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > Second, thats why all of my stuff is on a colocated server thats not > in my house. If someone takes my computers from the house, they get some > MP3s, maybe, and thats it. I am considering forming a non-profit company for basenji.com, I wonder if that would protect it / vice-versa.... -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 22:29:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:29:53 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Car audio question Message-ID: <136d01c135bb$0a634940$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Slightly more geeky today, I just installed an amplifier/subwoofer combo in my car - but can't utilize it to it's full potential. The reason is, whenever I try to increase the output the subwoofer will thump and hum. It *sounds* like it is firing _roughly_ once per three RPMs. This sort makes sense to me - since my car is a 6 cylinder. This is just by me timing the thumps from the subwoofer - not that I actually hooked up a tach to my tach-less car and ran it against the thumps. It sounds to me like I need a line filter for the power lead - but figgered I'd ask here in case anyone else has come across the same problem. Any ideas? Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 22:37:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Tugrul Galatali) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 22:37:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Abortion (was Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <20010904220120.R29212@wintermute.arkham.ws> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Brian Hechinger wrote: > On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 10:09:02PM -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > > > > I would like this thread to stop, only because it is so severly off-topic... > > i would normally agree with you. especially since i am so sick and tired of > this old argument, but this is geeks and "anything goes" so sorry. :( yeah, sorry. I just figured since he brought it up it was fair game. stopping right here before I get myself into trouble =P Tugrul Galatali From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 22:44:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Printers, Printers, Programming, Terminal Servers, and Writingish In-Reply-To: <20010905002148.FYEM23328.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> References: <20010905002148.FYEM23328.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: <20010905034426.C3C29EA@proven.weird.com> [ On Tuesday, September 4, 2001 at 20:19:27 (EDT), Mike Dombrowski wrote: ] > Subject: [geeks] Printers, Printers, Programming, Terminal Servers, and Writingish > > I also want a laser printer that understands postscript and has a > network interface. 100baseT would be nice but 100baseT would work. The > cheaper the better. Look around for any modern Apple LaserWriter. You don't need 100baseTX on a laser, at least not anything smaller than a very large, hundreds of pages per minute, monster machine, especally not if you don't have too much traffic on your net, and/or you have a good 10/100 switch. Even printing dense images you'll be able to keep well ahead of the print engine (with with that kind of input won't be going full tilt anyway) I've had tons of laser printers in lots of scenarios and I've never had a better one than an Apple one. One place I worked had an original laserwriter that had printed about 300,000 pages. That's ten big boxes. It was still going strong, but slowly of course, when I left. It may still be going today (6 years later! ;-). The only other printer I had which came close was a Dataproducts LZR1200 with a real Adobe PS engine. I still have one I bought used. Unfortunately it takes very expensive drums and fusers and it's only really of the ALW-1 generation too. I also still have a used Varityper that had been used in production at a large legal office for many years. It's 1200dpi, but async only. I've now got an ALW 16/600PS that's absolutely wonderful. In-house Apple wouldn't requisition these to anyone with a workgroup of about 16 people or fewer. That's a 16ppm 600dpi printer with a very good engine, takes ordinary SIMMs, and has internal and external SCSI ports for font cache disks. I ended up installing netatalk to drive it though as the lpd built into it isn't smart enough to report printing errors, but that's easy and quite workable on most any unix. I got mine almost brand new from a leasing company's second-hand store for an absolute steal (they didn't know what to do with it) for $64. They still sell used around here for about $500-$900, depending on their condition, even with tens of thousands of pages on the counter. > All the recent talk about formatting languages and my long desire to > learn one has sparked my interest but I have no idea which one to > learn. Any suggestions for something? I'd really like it if there was a > "Introduction to ..." or a tutorial website. lout. hands down the best formatting language around. http://snark.niif.spb.su/~uwe/lout/lout.html ftp://ftp.cs.usyd.edu.au/jeff/lout/lout-3.24.tar.gz comes with complete already-formatted manuals and user's guide, and slides from a tutorial. there's a _very_ helpful mailing list too: -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 22:52:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Matthew Poertner) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 20:52:19 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Car audio question References: <136d01c135bb$0a634940$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <3B95A173.6090003@mrplaid.com> What kind of car? What kind of amp? Check and make sure you have a good ground... I used to play with audio equipment quite a bit in high school. I had a 1970 VW Fastback. It had a similar problem. Also whenever the bass hit, the headlights would dim. I guess the little generator didn't put out enough juice and it was taking out quite a draw from the battery. So, I went to my computer repair class and tore apart some old computers and took the capacitors (Two - about the size of a coke can). I hooked it up so the amp took the draw off the caps instead of the battery. Sounded hell of clean and the headlights didn't dim anymore. -Matt Kurt Huhn wrote: >Slightly more geeky today, > >I just installed an amplifier/subwoofer combo in my car - but can't utilize >it to it's full potential. The reason is, whenever I try to increase the >output the subwoofer will thump and hum. > >It *sounds* like it is firing _roughly_ once per three RPMs. This sort >makes sense to me - since my car is a 6 cylinder. This is just by me timing >the thumps from the subwoofer - not that I actually hooked up a tach to my >tach-less car and ran it against the thumps. > >It sounds to me like I need a line filter for the power lead - but figgered >I'd ask here in case anyone else has come across the same problem. > >Any ideas? > >Kurt > >_______________________________________________ >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 4 23:10:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael S. Schiller) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 00:10:39 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! References: <12b801c1357b$a1803cb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <01352174955.dave.13825@cca.org> <130d01c135b9$5f48e840$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <3B95A5BF.6D6535A8@agrijag.com> I don't worry too much about the police anymore, well at least since I moved to TN, this is my kind of place! BUT, when I was living in FL, I was worried about them. I know FL, and I'm sure most places in this country, have enough laws on the books that a cop could arrest you at almost anytime. Of course chances are the charges won't stick, but as a friend used to say "You might beat the rap, but you ain't beating the ride". In fact, when I lived in FL, I made it a point to NEVER go out in public wearing anything I wouldn't be comfortable wearing in jail! -Mike Kurt Huhn wrote: > > You have *GOT* to be kidding! > > > > They take whatever they want, and shoot you if they're in the mood. > > > > Wow - talk about a dark view. I guess I partly have no fear of the law > enforcement folks because I don't do anything wrong/stupid that would > illicit their attention (aside from driving too fast, but even at that..). > > Perhaps I'm ignorant to how other folks are treated by law enforcement - but > I've never been mistreated. Even after tearing past a police officer at > well over 150MPH one day, I drove away with a ticket for 10MPH over the > limit. Lucky? Maybe - but I like to think that I know how to conduct > myself - and a little humor doesn't ever hurt either. > > I don't subscribe to the thought of "evil police". In fact, I get along > quite well with all the officers in my locality. It never hurts to interact > with the local officers either. Wave at them when they're directing > traffic, say hello at the coffee shop, strike up a converstion about nothing > in particular, and if you own guns be sure to go down and let the Chief > know - in some localities this is a requirement (check your local laws). > > Kurt > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 00:03:28 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Geoff Reed) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 22:03:28 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <010001c1357a$ee51b920$7100000a@deepthought> References: <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010904220214.02217d90@mail.zipcon.net> I can't remember, you're a US citizen, correct? (please excuse my forgetfullness i've been without needed meds for 2 weeks now :( ) anyways, if so, be sure to contact the US consulate.... From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 00:04:37 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 01:04:37 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <130d01c135b9$5f48e840$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <12b801c1357b$a1803cb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <01352174955.dave.13825@cca.org> <130d01c135b9$5f48e840$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010905010437.B17483@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 11:17:57PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > You have *GOT* to be kidding! > > > > They take whatever they want, and shoot you if they're in the mood. > > Wow - talk about a dark view. I guess I partly have no fear of the law > enforcement folks because I don't do anything wrong/stupid that would > illicit their attention (aside from driving too fast, but even at that..). Yes, but did you ever do anything to piss anyone off? And can you be positive that someone isn't about to use your identity to commit a crime? In some states, it doesn't take more than an acusation of dealing drugs for the police to be able to permenantly seize your assets (unless you get the case into court to be found innocent because just having the charges dropped is no longer enough to get your stuff back when drugs are somehow involved). In many states, the police finding drugs in your car (say you were giving someone a ride, something I do often for other students) is enough to have your car and anything in it seized. > Perhaps I'm ignorant to how other folks are treated by law enforcement - but > I've never been mistreated. Even after tearing past a police officer at > well over 150MPH one day, I drove away with a ticket for 10MPH over the > limit. Lucky? Maybe - but I like to think that I know how to conduct > myself - and a little humor doesn't ever hurt either. Most of my experience with police have been good. I did some work for one local police station (they needed some bugs fixed in an Access database used for managing traffic citations, and no, I didn't modify the program to ingnore citations with my name on them) even. But sometimes they can be real jerks, like the time I got stopped because doing a three point turn on a side road because I missed my turn look suspicious. I was terrified that the police officer might search the car and find surinjous (spelled incorrectly, but I don't care) because my diabetic sister at the time had a habit of leaving them scattered everywhere. > I don't subscribe to the thought of "evil police". In fact, I get along > quite well with all the officers in my locality. It never hurts to interact > with the local officers either. Wave at them when they're directing > traffic, say hello at the coffee shop, strike up a converstion about nothing > in particular, and if you own guns be sure to go down and let the Chief > know - in some localities this is a requirement (check your local laws). Yes, interacting with police is good. But, be extremely careful about interacting with them if you didn't initiate it. The New York Bar Association at one time had a pamphelet about this. I believe it is on the net someplace. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 00:41:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 00:41:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Car audio question In-Reply-To: <136d01c135bb$0a634940$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: does it increase with engine rpms? if so it probly needs a filter, beyond that i have no idea. I've been out of car audio for a while. Hell I had BestBuy install my kenwood z919 for me. BaNo From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 00:42:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 00:42:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Cool. Too bad I can't do the same. :-( Same here. Only pics I got to take was then one of our E6500s caught on fire. |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 00:45:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 00:45:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq In-Reply-To: <01352174910.dave.13537@cca.org> Message-ID: > SCO sucks so hard! > I can't *wait* to replace the one SCO box at work! SCO is a cancer. We are currently trying to phase it out aswell on the few boxes we have it running on. |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 00:47:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 22:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <20010905010437.B17483@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > terrified that the police officer might search the car and find surinjous Joshua- I am in no way making fun of you, but that has *got* to be one of the best ones I've seen in a long time... It took me a good three of four reads to realize that you meant "syringes"... [Middle English syryng, from Medieval Latin sringa, from Late Latin, injection, from Greek srinx, sring-, shepherd's pipe.] -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 00:52:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 05:52:56 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Woah. HP buys Compaq. In-Reply-To: <002101c1348f$b4130e80$3628020a@Sentoev> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Wes wrote: > I'm rather frightened by this merger. I work technical support for gateway > and the same company I work for also was a HP outsourcer for their Pavilion > line. I have a compaq Deskpro 6000, which is a horrible POS. It's does all > sorts of bizarre stuff. So...you've got two computer manufacturers that make > rather shotty desktop systems, but decent enough servers. I'm frightened. > The tech support world is going to get even shittier. That's interesting Wes; I used to work for the HP Vectra Outsourcer. You live in Huntsville? I work on the other side of the world, in South East. $COMPANY has the outsourced contracts on Dell, Gateway [sued over that one], and HP -- that I *know* of. There are probably more. Ah, the joys of working for a Fortune 300 company (usually goes along the lines of "Take it! Take it!"). ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 00:53:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 22:53:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Benjamin Kelley wrote: > > Cool. Too bad I can't do the same. :-( > Same here. Only pics I got to take was then one of our E6500s caught on > fire. Interesting... What caused it? (I rarely hear of systems catching fire, so I find it attention-getting.) -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 00:58:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 05:58:56 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] A+ Guide and Exam numbers? Message-ID: I'm looking at purchasing an A+ guide sometime soon; I'd appreciate any recommendations or so. Also, I'm not familiar with the exam's numbering system; can anyone point me in the direction of an explaination? 220-201 / 220-202 seems to be what I'm looking for, but I found a book on 220-101 / 220-102 also... ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 01:03:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Brian Hechinger) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 02:03:17 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: ; from bkelley@birch.net on Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:42:44AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010905020317.I29212@wintermute.arkham.ws> On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:42:44AM -0500, Benjamin Kelley wrote: > > Cool. Too bad I can't do the same. :-( > Same here. Only pics I got to take was then one of our E6500s caught on > fire. the only pics i have are from when i was at half.com. our datacenter was an absolute MESS. mostly since it was the other admin and i that did all the work and we didn't have time to make it look good. i hear that ebay sent in their datacenter team and made it all proper datacenter looking. let me find those pics. once sec. ok, found them. http://www.arkham.ws/~wonko/half taken with a rather shitty camera. i'll try to get around to making description files for all the machines. -brian From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 01:14:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 01:14:53 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: <20010905020317.I29212@wintermute.arkham.ws> References: <20010905020317.I29212@wintermute.arkham.ws> Message-ID: <20010905011453.J24237@mrbill.net> On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 02:03:17AM -0400, Brian Hechinger wrote: > the only pics i have are from when i was at half.com. our datacenter was an > absolute MESS. mostly since it was the other admin and i that did all the > work and we didn't have time to make it look good. i hear that ebay sent in > their datacenter team and made it all proper datacenter looking. > let me find those pics. once sec. > ok, found them. http://www.arkham.ws/~wonko/half I need to find the URL I had once of Netcom's old LA POP. Worst looking 'datacenter' I ever saw. EVER. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 01:20:29 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:20:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: <20010905011453.J24237@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > I need to find the URL I had once of Netcom's old LA POP. Worst looking > 'datacenter' I ever saw. EVER. I remember that one... Gave me nightmares... _Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 01:24:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Amy) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 01:24:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010905012436.N65953-100000@feeding.frenzy.com> On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > > > I need to find the URL I had once of Netcom's old LA POP. Worst looking > > 'datacenter' I ever saw. EVER. > > I remember that one... Gave me nightmares... sphagetti, anyone? ;) From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 01:51:25 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D Bhargav) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 11:51:25 +0500 Subject: [geeks] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq Message-ID: <16c8d916e50b.16e50b16c8d9@wipro.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > SCO sucks so hard! > > I can't *wait* to replace the one SCO box at work! I wrote a fast ethernet nic driver for SCO Unixware. Can't tell it from a sys admin point of view, but I found the kernel pretty rugged. I mean, despite screwing up the kernel and crashing the system several times, it bounces back to life after a reboot without any file system corruption. > SCO is a cancer. Yes, there are a few problems like though the driver is supposed to be a DLKM (dynamically loadable kernel module), the n/w interface doesn't come up. The system has to be rebooted to bring it up. The other problem that I noticed was in the CDE (Common Desktop Environment). It hangs when trying to open a new window after removing a n/w driver or interface. However, their n/w test suite scores a few points because running it will help you in ironing out all those creases in your driver. Bhargav --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary Content-Type: text/plain; name="Wipro_Disclaimer.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Wipro_Disclaimer.txt" The Information contained and transmitted by this E-MAIL is proprietary to Wipro and/or its Customer and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If this is a forwarded message, the content of this E-MAIL may not have been sent with the authority of the Company. If you are not the intended recipient, an agent of the intended recipient or a person responsible for delivering the information to the named recipient, you are notified that any use, distribution, transmission, printing, copying or dissemination of this information in any way or in any manner is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please delete this mail & notify us immediately at mailadmin at wipro.com --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary-- From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 01:56:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: <20010905012436.N65953-100000@feeding.frenzy.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Amy wrote: > > > I need to find the URL I had once of Netcom's old LA POP. Worst looking > > > 'datacenter' I ever saw. EVER. > > > > I remember that one... Gave me nightmares... > > sphagetti, anyone? ;) More like "Medusa's snakelike locks", for the way it paralyzed me in fear... I used to use Netcom for an ISP... (I am so anal-retentive about datacenters. If I wasn't before, working for Sun has made me aware of just how annoying a rat's nest of unlabled cables can be. Especially when it is the wee hours of the morning, and you are trying to puzzle out the SSP-to-E10K connection that was done 3 years ago by "Bob", who left the company suddenly. Of course, he never bothered to label the ethernet cables, 'cuz he knew where everything went. Or, the truly nitemarish: "Hey! Which one of these (240v, 30A) power cables is plugged into this AC outlet? Is it on battery?" POP! Followed by the roar of 56 fans fading into a stunned silence. "oops." Speaking of power cables, the steller service at SGI comes to mind. Like - "Oh, I'll just kick this cable out of my way." POP! Followed by the roar of a Challenge XL crossfading to my horrified scream as the entire Genome Sequence Database comes slamming to a halt in the middle of the day... Ya know the best part? It really takes almost *no* extra time to label the cables as you go. Sun provides a label kit for the E10K just for this reason... Just imagine a full-up system with 40 2-port FCAL cards, 10 QFE's, and sundry other SCSI, power, ethernet, etc. cables. Tha's something like 150+ cables coming off of ONE box... (Actually, we did a mental excercise one day. Assuming a 16-board domain with one FCAL adaptor for disk and all the other slots full of QFE's, (I can't imagine *why*) you'd have a system with 252 network cables, two fiber cables, and 4 main power cables. The mind boggles. -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 02:10:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 03:10:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010904145154.J4209@rs.rackshack.net> References: <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> <20010903020727.A14623@cs.millersville.edu> <20010903012449.M28412@zilla.nu> <20010904145019.A8594@cs.millersville.edu> <20010904140815.E4209@rs.rackshack.net> <20010904152833.A9309@cs.millersville.edu> <20010904145154.J4209@rs.rackshack.net> Message-ID: <20010905071059.58340EA@proven.weird.com> [ On Tuesday, September 4, 2001 at 14:51:54 (-0500), Reagen B. Ward wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... > > Ghostscript is far from fast, and I've had problems with some of its > interpretation. indeed GS can be pretty crappy -- it's good enough for previewing, but and for previewing most PDFs these days, but that's about it. > Yup, Apple did it from scratch, but it was easy. They already had nice PDF > objects to build upon, and there's no benefit to going with DGS over DPDF. > Plus, PDF is recognizeable to the masses, PS is not. When you need to > market your product, it's good to use things the market recognizes. But Apple doesn't do that kind of marketing? I mean would you ever even imagine Apple to come close to mentioning PDF or PS in one of their ads? "I Don't Think So!!!(tm)" :-) No, PDF was chosen simply because Adobe's greed was too high to choose PS. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 02:12:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 03:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010904152833.A9309@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> <20010903020727.A14623@cs.millersville.edu> <20010903012449.M28412@zilla.nu> <20010904145019.A8594@cs.millersville.edu> <20010904140815.E4209@rs.rackshack.net> <20010904152833.A9309@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010905071226.A13F5EA@proven.weird.com> [ On Tuesday, September 4, 2001 at 15:28:33 (-0400), Joshua D Boyd wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... > > I would think that Apple, having access to all the DisplayPostscript code > would be able to very rapidly create a new DisplayGhostscript using the > DisplayPostscript code as a reference. Licensing man, licensing. Apple wouldn't reverse engineer DPS because they'd be liiable to have to pay Adobe anyway. Starting from scratch with PDF using only the published documentation, and hopefully avoiding any patented algorithms, keeps them completely in the clear. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 02:13:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 03:13:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... In-Reply-To: <20010904145112.B8594@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20010831201006.D712C11F85@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010831220105.A19420@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831214955.9C2E5E8@proven.weird.com> <20010831230715.A19945@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010831231214.62001E8@proven.weird.com> <20010902111710.A3607@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010902124308.A6191@cs.millersville.edu> <20010902185550.43D8CE8@proven.weird.com> <20010903020727.A14623@cs.millersville.edu> <20010903063859.4938EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010904145112.B8594@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010905071348.477C5EA@proven.weird.com> [ On Tuesday, September 4, 2001 at 14:51:12 (-0400), Joshua D Boyd wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] better word-processing previewing.... > > But DisplayGhostscript doesn't have anything to do with Adobe. Well, unless you're Apple and you've already had intimate contact with Adobe about PostScript. Anything with PostScript(TM) in it is liable to cause them licensing issues, even if it's a third-party clean-room implementation..... -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 02:58:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (William S.) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 00:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Abortion (was Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010905075830.7418.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> I agree with this statement. Let's not make another mistake by trying to deal with the first mistake. Bill --- Tugrul Galatali wrote: > > I haven't read this thread too closely (poor Chris > ;(), but what does > this have to do with the legality of abortion. Just > because they can't > elimnate the consequences of their actions doesn't > mean this had to be blown > up into a rape case that is dragging innocent > bystanders into the grave. The > fact that the mom pushed this to another plateau is > what I consider a childish > way of handling this delicate situation. Its not the > parents that have to > consent, its the adults involved. > > I'm not against abortion on any religious high, > just on principle. > > Tugrul Galatali > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 07:16:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 08:16:23 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Car audio question References: <136d01c135bb$0a634940$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <3B95A173.6090003@mrplaid.com> Message-ID: <140d01c13604$97d0d7e0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Ford Taurus - factory stereo, the amp is an American Legacy 300W. I'll double check the ground today - I suspect that might be it. It is *possible* that I forgot to completely ground the chassis of the stereo unit. Kurt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Poertner" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 11:52 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] Car audio question > What kind of car? What kind of amp? > > Check and make sure you have a good ground... > > I used to play with audio equipment quite a bit in high school. I had a > 1970 VW Fastback. It had a similar problem. Also whenever the bass > hit, the headlights would dim. I guess the little generator didn't put > out enough juice and it was taking out quite a draw from the battery. > So, I went to my computer repair class and tore apart some old > computers and took the capacitors (Two - about the size of a coke can). > I hooked it up so the amp took the draw off the caps instead of the > battery. Sounded hell of clean and the headlights didn't dim anymore. > > -Matt > > Kurt Huhn wrote: > > >Slightly more geeky today, > > > >I just installed an amplifier/subwoofer combo in my car - but can't utilize > >it to it's full potential. The reason is, whenever I try to increase the > >output the subwoofer will thump and hum. > > > >It *sounds* like it is firing _roughly_ once per three RPMs. This sort > >makes sense to me - since my car is a 6 cylinder. This is just by me timing > >the thumps from the subwoofer - not that I actually hooked up a tach to my > >tach-less car and ran it against the thumps. > > > >It sounds to me like I need a line filter for the power lead - but figgered > >I'd ask here in case anyone else has come across the same problem. > > > >Any ideas? > > > >Kurt > > > >_______________________________________________ > >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 07:17:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 08:17:26 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Car audio question References: Message-ID: <141101c13604$bd43f0c0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Wasn't able to check. I finished up all the connections at about 10:00pm last night. Couldn't really let it thump while I rev'd the engine. I'll check it again today. Kurt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Kelley" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 1:41 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] Car audio question > does it increase with engine rpms? > if so it probly needs a filter, beyond that i have no idea. > I've been out of car audio for a while. > Hell I had BestBuy install my kenwood z919 for me. > > > BaNo > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 08:57:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 14:57:54 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! References: <00a501c13573$0e215060$7100000a@deepthought> <5.1.0.14.2.20010904220214.02217d90@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <006101c13612$df296db0$01000001@deepthought> Actually I have dual citizenship which means that as far as both the US and Ireland are concerned I'm an Irish Citizen as long as I'm in irish jurisdiction. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Reed" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 06:03 Subject: Re: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! > I can't remember, you're a US citizen, correct? (please excuse my > forgetfullness i've been without needed meds for 2 weeks now :( ) anyways, > if so, be sure to contact the US consulate.... > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 09:31:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg Evans) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:31:57 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010905093157.A14101@parrotheaven.com> Heh, we had an E-10000 catch fire once. Funniest call I ever got from an operator: "Ummm, smoke is coming out of starfire2, what should I do???" -- /* Greg Evans, Bloomington, MN., USA - gje at parrotheaven.com */ ------------- "The more advertising I see, the less I want to by" - Tom Robbins -from "Fierce Invalids Home From Hot Climates" Benjamin Kelley [bkelley at birch.net] wrote: > > Cool. Too bad I can't do the same. :-( > Same here. Only pics I got to take was then one of our E6500s caught on > fire. > > |=================================================| > Benjamin L. Kelley > Birch Telecom > Unix Systems Administrator > Email: bkelley at birch.net > Phone: 816-300-1907 > CellPhone: 816-582-8462 > Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 > Web: HTTP://www.birch.com > |=================================================| > > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 09:34:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg Evans) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:34:32 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: References: <20010905012436.N65953-100000@feeding.frenzy.com> Message-ID: <20010905093432.B14101@parrotheaven.com> We have 3 E-10K's where I work. Our Sun SSE is absolutely ANAL about cable labels. I don't blame him. -- /* Greg Evans, Bloomington, MN., USA - gje at parrotheaven.com */ ------------- "Beware when you do battle with monsters that you do not become one, and remember, when you stare long into the abyss, the abyss also stares into you" - F. Nietzsche Peter L. Wargo [pwargo at basenji.com] wrote: > On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Amy wrote: > > > > > I need to find the URL I had once of Netcom's old LA POP. Worst looking > > > > 'datacenter' I ever saw. EVER. > > > > > > I remember that one... Gave me nightmares... > > > > sphagetti, anyone? ;) > > More like "Medusa's snakelike locks", for the way it paralyzed me in > fear... I used to use Netcom for an ISP... > > (I am so anal-retentive about datacenters. If I wasn't before, working > for Sun has made me aware of just how annoying a rat's nest of unlabled > cables can be. Especially when it is the wee hours of the morning, and > you are trying to puzzle out the SSP-to-E10K connection that was done 3 > years ago by "Bob", who left the company suddenly. Of course, he never > bothered to label the ethernet cables, 'cuz he knew where everything went. > > Or, the truly nitemarish: "Hey! Which one of these (240v, 30A) power > cables is plugged into this AC outlet? Is it on battery?" POP! Followed > by the roar of 56 fans fading into a stunned silence. > > "oops." > > Speaking of power cables, the steller service at SGI comes to mind. Like > - "Oh, I'll just kick this cable out of my way." POP! Followed by the > roar of a Challenge XL crossfading to my horrified scream as the entire > Genome Sequence Database comes slamming to a halt in the middle of the > day... > > Ya know the best part? It really takes almost *no* extra time to label > the cables as you go. Sun provides a label kit for the E10K just for this > reason... Just imagine a full-up system with 40 2-port FCAL cards, 10 > QFE's, and sundry other SCSI, power, ethernet, etc. cables. Tha's > something like 150+ cables coming off of ONE box... > > (Actually, we did a mental excercise one day. Assuming a 16-board domain > with one FCAL adaptor for disk and all the other slots full of QFE's, > (I can't imagine *why*) you'd have a system with 252 network cables, two > fiber cables, and 4 main power cables. The mind boggles. > > -Pete > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 10:01:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:01:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Interesting... What caused it? (I rarely hear of systems catching fire, > so I find it attention-getting.) It was well beyond mtbd (mean time before dusting). Burned 3 power supplies and the system backplane. |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 10:01:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Mosiejczuk) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:01:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: <20010905012436.N65953-100000@feeding.frenzy.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Amy wrote: > sphagetti, anyone? ;) Hmmm... I think I should bring my digital camera to see the rack of spaghetti at one of my customer sites. Very scary and most of the spaghetti is only cat3 wiring =) --Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 10:08:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:08:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hmmm... I think I should bring my digital camera to see the > rack of spaghetti at one of my customer sites. Very scary > and most of the spaghetti is only cat3 wiring =) We purchased a Kc based ISP, So we could get customer base for our ISP. The TFS NOC consisted of a bunch of clone PC's running linux and NT. The main server's harddrives were ducttaped to the table(to keep them from vibrating away). They were too poor to afford rackmount modems. So they took the boards out of USR sportsters and mounted them in a makeshift case. They floor was coverd with cables. you couldnt even see the floor in some places. And you had to make sure to not trip on the ds-3 (also running across the floor) |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 10:27:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:27:08 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: <20010905093157.A14101@parrotheaven.com> References: <20010905093157.A14101@parrotheaven.com> Message-ID: <20010905102708.P6681@mrbill.net> On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 09:31:57AM -0500, Greg Evans wrote: > Heh, we had an E-10000 catch fire once. Funniest call I ever got from an > operator: "Ummm, smoke is coming out of starfire2, what should I do???" Wasnt it the SunOS 4.x man page for "reboot" that gave the "-n" option, "avoid the sync(), use if the CPU or a disk is on fire". Just pray the tech didnt tell you "oh, man reboot". 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 10:32:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:32:00 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010905103200.Q6681@mrbill.net> On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 10:08:27AM -0500, Benjamin Kelley wrote: > They were too poor to afford rackmount modems. > So they took the boards out of USR sportsters and mounted them in a > makeshift case. Hey now, when I worked at Texas.Net, before the shift to lines-coming-in-on- PRI, we actually designed and *sold as a product*, a rackmount chassis and power supply meant to hold (8? I cant remember) USR Courier circuit boards. (remove the outer black plastic shell, and you've got one entirely self-contained modem on a PC board with some red LEDs on the front..) Instead of running 8 power supplies, you'd have one cable for the chassis, and run short plugs from the back of each PC board to the power supply in the bottom of the chassis. Of course, you still had to deal with the hydra serial cables, but those werent too bad, and we were anal about cable organization and labeling. Was one of the coolest sights I'd ever seen, the first time I saw four full racks of these beasts (with Portmaster 2Es) in the dark - it was very WarGames/Connection-Machine-ish, a couple thousand red LEDs... The heat these put off was impressive, too... 8-) We were SO glad to go to digital modems, but man, they didnt have the same blinky-light factor at all. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 10:56:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 08:56:05 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage Message-ID: In our data centers we have implemented building-style cabling. Each rack has a cat-5 patch panel at the top that is trunked back to a patch panel on the rack with the bigmofo switch. No mess possible. We even make cable adapters to allow us to use the cabling plant to carry serial data for consoles. This is the best approach I have seen in 15 years of machine-room visits. > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter L. Wargo [mailto:pwargo at basenji.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 2:56 AM > To: geeks at sunhelp.org > Subject: Re: [geeks] Data Center Braggage > > > On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Amy wrote: > > > > > I need to find the URL I had once of Netcom's old LA > POP. Worst looking > > > > 'datacenter' I ever saw. EVER. > > > > > > I remember that one... Gave me nightmares... > > > > sphagetti, anyone? ;) > > More like "Medusa's snakelike locks", for the way it paralyzed me in > fear... I used to use Netcom for an ISP... > > (I am so anal-retentive about datacenters. If I wasn't > before, working > for Sun has made me aware of just how annoying a rat's nest > of unlabled > cables can be. Especially when it is the wee hours of the > morning, and > you are trying to puzzle out the SSP-to-E10K connection that > was done 3 > years ago by "Bob", who left the company suddenly. Of > course, he never > bothered to label the ethernet cables, 'cuz he knew where > everything went. > > Or, the truly nitemarish: "Hey! Which one of these (240v, 30A) power > cables is plugged into this AC outlet? Is it on battery?" > POP! Followed > by the roar of 56 fans fading into a stunned silence. > > "oops." > > Speaking of power cables, the steller service at SGI comes to > mind. Like > - "Oh, I'll just kick this cable out of my way." POP! > Followed by the > roar of a Challenge XL crossfading to my horrified scream as > the entire > Genome Sequence Database comes slamming to a halt in the middle of the > day... > > Ya know the best part? It really takes almost *no* extra > time to label > the cables as you go. Sun provides a label kit for the E10K > just for this > reason... Just imagine a full-up system with 40 2-port FCAL cards, 10 > QFE's, and sundry other SCSI, power, ethernet, etc. cables. Tha's > something like 150+ cables coming off of ONE box... > > (Actually, we did a mental excercise one day. Assuming a > 16-board domain > with one FCAL adaptor for disk and all the other slots full of QFE's, > (I can't imagine *why*) you'd have a system with 252 network > cables, two > fiber cables, and 4 main power cables. The mind boggles. > > -Pete > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 12:01:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 18:01:42 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Coming in to Chicago Friday night Message-ID: <005001c1362c$737c2020$01000001@deepthought> All, I'm coming in to Chicago friday night, and then heading on to the Jacksonville Il area saturday through tuesday if anyone wants to get together. Chris Byrne From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 12:57:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 13:57:01 EDT Subject: [geeks] Wiring Message-ID: <20010905180012.DUPX23328.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >In our data centers we have implemented building-style cabling. Each rack >has a cat-5 patch panel at the top that is trunked back to a patch panel on >the rack with the bigmofo switch. No mess possible. We even make cable >adapters to allow us to use the cabling plant to carry serial data for >consoles. This is the best approach I have seen in 15 years of machine -room >visits. On the topic of wiring is there a standard "this is how you should do wires"? I ask because in the near future I will have to be wiring a building's datacenter and a couple residences and I don't know all that I need to. It took me a looong time to realize what a 110 tool was for because I've never used one and only had catalogs to look at to figure out what they're for. Everything I know has been from personal experience(be sure to use real cat5 wire, not faux cat5. Also, use the standard color code not your own) or random bits picked up from places(don't coil cat5/run it along power cables). Borders has some books on this topic but I'd like to know if there are any reccomendations. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 13:17:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 05 Sep 2001 11:17:15 -0700 Subject: [geeks] A+ Guide and Exam numbers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <999713835.1126.47.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Tue, 2001-09-04 at 22:58, Kris Kirby wrote: > > I'm looking at purchasing an A+ guide sometime soon; I'd appreciate any > recommendations or so. Also, I'm not familiar with the exam's numbering > system; can anyone point me in the direction of an explaination? Are you talking about the CompTIA A+ exam? Personally, I wouldn't bother with a book. I went down the first day they updated the exam (July 1999), took it, and passed with excelent marks. The only thing I didn't do well on was the stuff on laser printers, because I'd never even seen one, let alone worked on one. :-) Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 13:41:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 13:41:49 -0500 Subject: [geeks] A+ Guide and Exam numbers? In-Reply-To: <999713835.1126.47.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> References: <999713835.1126.47.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Message-ID: <20010905134149.H6681@mrbill.net> On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 11:17:15AM -0700, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > Are you talking about the CompTIA A+ exam? Personally, I wouldn't > bother with a book. I went down the first day they updated the exam > (July 1999), took it, and passed with excelent marks. The only thing I > didn't do well on was the stuff on laser printers, because I'd never > even seen one, let alone worked on one. :-) > Greg And who backs/certifies this "A+" exam? I saw books on this popping up a few years ago, and thought it looked really useless.. Either a tech will know their stuff or they wont; this exam only looked like something for companies to pad their pockets with. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 13:48:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 05 Sep 2001 11:48:26 -0700 Subject: [geeks] A+ Guide and Exam numbers? In-Reply-To: <20010905134149.H6681@mrbill.net> References: <999713835.1126.47.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> <20010905134149.H6681@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <999715706.1126.86.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Wed, 2001-09-05 at 11:41, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 11:17:15AM -0700, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > > Are you talking about the CompTIA A+ exam? Personally, I wouldn't ^^^^^^^^ > > bother with a book. I went down the first day they updated the exam > > (July 1999), took it, and passed with excelent marks. The only thing I > > didn't do well on was the stuff on laser printers, because I'd never > > even seen one, let alone worked on one. :-) > > Greg > > And who backs/certifies this "A+" exam? I saw books on this popping http://www.comptia.org/ > up a few years ago, and thought it looked really useless.. Either a tech > will know their stuff or they wont; this exam only looked like something > for companies to pad their pockets with. Well, coming out of high school looking for a job, it was a nice ego boost to be able to take the exam and do well on it. It's an entry level exam. If you don't know this stuff, you shouldn't be touching computers. Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 14:15:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 20:15:27 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <130d01c135b9$5f48e840$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH>; from kurt@k-huhn.com on Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 11:17:57PM -0400 References: <12b801c1357b$a1803cb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <01352174955.dave.13825@cca.org> <130d01c135b9$5f48e840$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010905201526.B20352@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 11:17:57PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > You have *GOT* to be kidding! > > They take whatever they want, and shoot you if they're in the mood. > Wow - talk about a dark view. I guess I partly have no fear of the law > enforcement folks because I don't do anything wrong/stupid that would > illicit their attention (aside from driving too fast, but even at that..). YMobviouslyV. My experience of the .uk police is that they are arseholes. I have had maybe two positive encounters with someone I knew was a police officer, and a large number of negative encounters with 'em. I'm not a criminal, and yet I still despise them and still know that they are my enemy. > I don't subscribe to the thought of "evil police". I didn't used to until I found out from first-hand experience that so many of them were so vile. Maybe they go into the police force as wonderful human beings, but I guess there's something about the working environment that turns them into scum. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it -- Agatha Christie From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 14:58:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq In-Reply-To: References: <3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010905195843.9FA37EA@proven.weird.com> [[ MOVE IT TO GEEKS!!! ]] [ On Wednesday, September 5, 2001 at 16:42:15 (+0100), Paul Sladen wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq > > Please be /very/ careful about whether you are refering to: > > a) The kernel, scalable enough to run on your Palm Pilot, and your S/390. > Please don't bring up the issue of efficeny; Solaris doesn't run on > a Palm, and NetBSD (a Real-Unix(TM) that does) doesn't `scale' to SMP. Actually, no, the linux kernel is not that scalable. It does not run well under heavy load on an S/390 -- that's why you run hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of virtual linux partions under VM. Even *BSD kernels require major tuning and hackery to run well on really big iron, even really big iX86 iron..... > b) The OS: GNU's Not Unix. Exactly what it says, a clean-room rewrite > (again) of Unix fundmentals. This the same suite of utilities that > you have to install before you can do anything useful on all the > Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, SCO and the BSDs. What about the legendary GCC > compiler that you use for compilation on all the above OS's and which > is the standard Playstation II dev-suite. The bad thing about clean-room rewrites even those done in effect by committee, is the tendency to not re-write, but instead to re-invent. There are lots of horrible abominations that have crept into what would otherwise be good clean tools. Even *BSD, which since 4.3Net-2 is itself a rewrite, has similar warts, but at least in my opinion it has stayed inifintely more true to form than GNU stuff ever did. > After reading the above, I'm very interested to know why GNU/Linux is so > much worse than an alternative, when (as can be seen from the above) all > you've done is swap out the kernel and C library. Well, one problem is that the Linux kernel is still intricately tied to the GCC compiler, and in some senses to GNU libc even; and similarly many GNU tools are intricately tied to GNU libc too. You cannot currently build Linux kernels with any other tools. The *BSD kernel, at least in its NetBSD incarnation, is still highly portable between compilers. The best way to start a port of *BSD to a new platform is to start compiling the kernel with your platform's native C compiler. You do not have to port GCC first. (Of course most *BSD tools are intricately tied to the *BSD libc....) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 15:00:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Data Center Braggage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010905200039.06A48EA@proven.weird.com> [ On Wednesday, September 5, 2001 at 08:56:05 (-0700), Fogg, James wrote: ] > Subject: RE: [geeks] Data Center Braggage > > In our data centers we have implemented building-style cabling. Each rack > has a cat-5 patch panel at the top that is trunked back to a patch panel on > the rack with the bigmofo switch. No mess possible. We even make cable > adapters to allow us to use the cabling plant to carry serial data for > consoles. This is the best approach I have seen in 15 years of machine-room > visits. Hmmm... I did that with a pair of 24-port patch panels just between the two cabinets in my basement! :-) I couldn't even imagine building a data centre any other way.... -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 15:07:21 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] NetBSD SMP support coming along nicely..... In-Reply-To: <15254.26895.15211.669775@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net> <15254.22798.534751.796928@phaduka.neurotica.com> <999711248.1127.12.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> <15254.26895.15211.669775@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20010905200721.23EF4EA@proven.weird.com> [[ MOVE IT TO GEEKS!!! ]] [ On Wednesday, September 5, 2001 at 14:03:59 (-0400), Dave McGuire wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq > > On September 5, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > > Is it only on the Alpha and x86 ports? I just browsed the i386 ports > > page, and couldn't find anything that jumped out at me. > > Alpha, i386, and VAX. I hear SPARC is close. It's not in any > official releases yet, but it's been available for many months. NetBSD SMP is only "on the trunk" for Alpha and VAX. i386 is still on a branch, but one of the main developers let slip the other day that pulling it down to the trunk is next on his priority list. Sparc and Sparc64 are perhaps close, but who knows how close? Do any other already-supported architectures matter to anyone? -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 15:16:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Wiring In-Reply-To: <20010905180012.DUPX23328.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> References: <20010905180012.DUPX23328.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: <20010905201643.A6873EA@proven.weird.com> [ On Wednesday, September 5, 2001 at 13:57:01 (EDT), Mike Dombrowski wrote: ] > Subject: [geeks] Wiring > > On the topic of wiring is there a standard "this is how you should do > wires"? I ask because in the near future I will have to be wiring a > building's datacenter and a couple residences and I don't know all that > I need to. It took me a looong time to realize what a 110 tool was for > because I've never used one and only had catalogs to look at to figure > out what they're for. Everything I know has been from personal > experience(be sure to use real cat5 wire, not faux cat5. Also, use the > standard color code not your own) or random bits picked up from > places(don't coil cat5/run it along power cables). Borders has some > books on this topic but I'd like to know if there are any > reccomendations. Most important of all is to get someone qualified at Ethernet LAN design to look at the building and the suggested layouts, etc., especially if the building is of any significant size. With 100baseTX the bit timings (affected by cable length and quality, component quality, termination quality, installation quality, etc.) are VERY VERY critical. If you ignore any of these issues you could lose from 10-30% of your network's potential capacity, and even on a lightly loaded network that will cause noticable issues for users. I'd also advise getting a CAT-5/e certified installer to do the actual work, and make sure every run and every jack is tested and approved to full CAT-5 (or even CAT-5/e). Installers around here can do that for well under $100/pull, including all the parts and cable. Unless you do cable for a living you cannot do it that cheaply yourself. CAT-6 though is at least twice as expensive still, and probalby not worth it unless you're a multi-media kind of company. If you're going to do it yourself because your time is effectively free, or some such, make sure you learn all these issues and make sure you get a wiring tester that is capable of doing all the normal short, open, pair mis-match tests, as well as one that can qualify a connection as meeting CAT-5 or better. You don't want to find these problems after you go live. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 15:45:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 13:45:13 -0700 Subject: [geeks] wackamole for server failover/load balancing. Message-ID: There was a thread around here about webserver directors/big-ip/cisco content switch for making a group of web servers load balance to a single IP and provide failover if one/some dies. Specifically Bill was looking for a cheap/free solution. This may or may not be a solution (no time for research) but it sounds interesting. It is from a post in the nanog list. % Hi, % % We at the Center for Networking and Distributed Systems at Johns Hopkins % University % (http://www.cnds.jhu.edu) are happy to announce the release of Wackamole, % a software tool that provides N-Way Fail Over for IP Addresses in a cluster. % It is available here: http://www.backhand.org/wackamole/ and is released % under the CNDS open source license % http://www.backhand.org/wackamole/LICENSE.shtml % which is essentially a version of BSD license with a somewhat stronger % advertising % requirement. % % Wackamole is a tool that helps with making a cluster highly available. % It manages a bunch of virtual IPs that should be available to the outside % world at all times. Wackamole ensures that exactly one machine within the % cluster is % listening on each virtual IP address that Wackamole manages. % If it discovers that particular machines within the cluster are not alive, % it will % almost immediately ensure that other machines acquire the virtual IP % addresses the % down machines were managing. At no time will more than one connected machine % be % responsible for any virtual IP. % % Wackamole also works toward achieving a balanced distribution of the public % IPs % within the cluster it manages. % % How it works: % Wackamole runs as root on each of the cluster's machines. It uses the % membership % notifications provided by the Spread Toolkit (http://www.spread.org, also % available % under a similar license) to generate a consistent state that is agreed upon % among % all of the connected Wackamole instances. % Wackamole uses this knowledge to ensure that all of the public IP addresses % served % by the cluster will be covered by exactly one Wackamole instance. % % Wackamole is the newest component in the Backhand project % (http://www.backhand.org), % adding to its predecessors mod_backhand and mod_log_spread. % % For questions or comments - e-mail wackamole at backhand.org % % Best regards, % % :) Yair. http://www.cnds.jhu.edu From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 16:22:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 17:22:58 EDT Subject: [geeks] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq References: Message-ID: <01353172258.dave.13576@cca.org> bkelley at birch.net writes: >> SCO sucks so hard! >> I can't *wait* to replace the one SCO box at work! >SCO is a cancer. We are currently trying to phase it out aswell on the few >boxes we have it running on. Have you tried the SCO compatability feature under any other unix? I've been meaning to try openbsd and just haven't had the time. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- --------- "I prefer the rediculous to the sublime." - James Chance --------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 19:21:29 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 01:21:29 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Fw: LEGO Mindstorms Message-ID: <003f01c13669$f2689250$0301a8c0@chimp> This is cool. (Link nicked from memepool.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Mc Donald" To: ; "Phil Ward" Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 1:18 AM Subject: LEGO Mindstorms > Cor. Mindstorms Rubik's Cube solving robot. (It takes all the stickers off > then sticks 'em back on the right way round. :)) > > > http://mindstorms.lego.com/inventions/invention.asp?ID={72BAE2EC-A6EC-5037-5 > BA0-01A93E6787FC}&slotN=2 > > Or, > > http://makeashorterlink.com/index.php?U2C354D0 > > ... if it wraps. > > > From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 20:01:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:01:12 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Car audio question References: <136d01c135bb$0a634940$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <3B95A173.6090003@mrplaid.com> <140d01c13604$97d0d7e0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <150f01c1366f$6f399900$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Figured it out: for those interested. The problem: My amplifier has a crossover network built in to it - somehow this was not agreeing with the speaker level inputs. For some reason it was amplifying line noise of some kind, that only appeared in the lower ( <50hz) range. Wierd. Still not exactly sure what the issue was. However, I did find that it only happened when the crossover feature was enabled, and the line-in was hooked to the amplifier. The fix: I had a stand-alone crossover unit hanging around that I bought by mistake. Turns out it wasn't a mistake, I just bought it before I needed it. At any rate - I used the crossover to filter the speaker-level input, split off the low-range frequencies, and convert to line-level. Now the amp has line-level input, isn't trying to split frequencies, and is only boosting the signal - which is only the low level ranges. The result - no wierd thumping, and clean sound. Well, almost clean - now I find the subwoofer isn't powerful enough for the amp - figures. Next step - an actual subwoofer instead of some crap I recovered from my attic... Goes to show you - use purpose built components, and let each one do the job it was designed for. It also shows, your whole system is only as strong as the weakest part. Kurt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt Huhn" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] Car audio question > Ford Taurus - factory stereo, the amp is an American Legacy 300W. I'll > double check the ground today - I suspect that might be it. It is > *possible* that I forgot to completely ground the chassis of the stereo > unit. > > Kurt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matthew Poertner" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 11:52 PM > Subject: Re: [geeks] Car audio question > > > > What kind of car? What kind of amp? > > > > Check and make sure you have a good ground... > > > > I used to play with audio equipment quite a bit in high school. I had a > > 1970 VW Fastback. It had a similar problem. Also whenever the bass > > hit, the headlights would dim. I guess the little generator didn't put > > out enough juice and it was taking out quite a draw from the battery. > > So, I went to my computer repair class and tore apart some old > > computers and took the capacitors (Two - about the size of a coke can). > > I hooked it up so the amp took the draw off the caps instead of the > > battery. Sounded hell of clean and the headlights didn't dim anymore. > > > > -Matt > > > > Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > > >Slightly more geeky today, > > > > > >I just installed an amplifier/subwoofer combo in my car - but can't > utilize > > >it to it's full potential. The reason is, whenever I try to increase the > > >output the subwoofer will thump and hum. > > > > > >It *sounds* like it is firing _roughly_ once per three RPMs. This sort > > >makes sense to me - since my car is a 6 cylinder. This is just by me > timing > > >the thumps from the subwoofer - not that I actually hooked up a tach to > my > > >tach-less car and ran it against the thumps. > > > > > >It sounds to me like I need a line filter for the power lead - but > figgered > > >I'd ask here in case anyone else has come across the same problem. > > > > > >Any ideas? > > > > > >Kurt > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 20:58:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 21:58:17 EDT Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! Message-ID: <20010906020211.RVEK23328.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >> terrified that the police officer might search the car and find surinjous > >Joshua- > >I am in no way making fun of you, but that has *got* to be one of the best >ones I've seen in a long time... It took me a good three of four reads to >realize that you meant "syringes"... > >[Middle English syryng, from Medieval Latin sringa, from Late Latin, >injection, from Greek srinx, sring-, shepherd's pipe.] > >-Pete I'm still cracking up from this hours later. I thought that was some kind of diabetes drug with a nasty name. I would have never ever guessed that surinjous was a bastardizationishspelling of syringes were it not for Pete. Next time go for "needles" or "needle pusher thing." Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 21:32:37 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 22:32:37 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix In-Reply-To: <002f01c1367d$cd4ef400$0501000a@laboffice> References: <15252.62713.157302.381517@phaduka.neurotica.com><3B950984.84A104C1@internet1.net><20010904152240.B9135@cs.millersville.edu><3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net><20010905220102.A5301@cs.millersville.edu> <20010906023815.E80B2EA@proven.weird.com> <002f01c1367d$cd4ef400$0501000a@laboffice> Message-ID: <20010905223237.A5678@cs.millersville.edu> On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 10:44:06PM -0400, Zach Malone wrote: > I think he meant that there is no central Linux authority with the money to > get it licensed as an official UNIX. I may be wrong here, but after a > couple readings, that was how I interpreted it. This is getting bad. This is the second time in as many days that people mentioned needing several readings to understand one of my messages. This is apparently what I get for not spending a holiday weekend relaxing. What's really bad is that the past few weeks, if you talk to me in person it is even worse. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 21:38:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 22:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix In-Reply-To: <20010905220102.A5301@cs.millersville.edu> References: <15252.62713.157302.381517@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3B950984.84A104C1@internet1.net> <20010904152240.B9135@cs.millersville.edu> <3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net> <20010905220102.A5301@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010906023815.E80B2EA@proven.weird.com> [[ MOVE IT TO GEEKS!!!!! ]] [ On Wednesday, September 5, 2001 at 22:01:02 (-0400), Joshua D Boyd wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq > > Personally, I think that claiming that Linux isn't unix is a very pathetic > and artificial distinction. The only evidence that has been pointed out > to support this is lack of Unix98 certification and that it wasn't based > directly on either the BSD code or the AT&T code. GNU/Linux doesn't even necessarily try to follow in the spirit of Unix. This is in part due to its extremely strong reliance on GNU tools for its API and user-land, but also in part due to its strange kernel too. > For the Unix98 "problem", I answer that is something not Unix just because > there isn't a central authority to pay for the certification? Not to be too picky or anything (my favourite NetBSD doesn't meet Unix98 either), but there certainly _IS_ a central authority who you can pay to get full and proper Unix certification, and strictly you cannot call your system a "unix system" unless you have had it certified as one. Indeed if you try to declare your system to be a "unix system" without having first obtained the necessary certification to do so that central agency will send you a very scary "cease and desist" letter and if you fail to obey it they'll haul your arse directly into court faster than you can spell "unix". This is a game played by large corporations with many lawyers and lots of funding. Other large corporations who play other similar games by similar rules don't like these petty little up-start things like *BSD, GNU/Linux, etc., because they don't get to play with them by the same rules. > What about > OpenBSD or NetBSD? I doubt anyone could seriously claim that they aren't > Unix, but I don't think they are certified. No, *BSD are most certainly not certified to be real Unix, and as a user, administrator, and kernel hacker of at least NetBSD and FreeBSD I can assure you that though they try VERY hard to follow strictly in the spirit of Unix (and IMNSHO succeed infinitely better then GNU/Linux), they are most definitely not Unix either, even if you ignore the silly corporate certification game and look only at the spirit and philosophy.... -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 21:43:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 22:43:34 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Major League Oh Shit!!! In-Reply-To: <20010906020211.RVEK23328.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> References: <20010906020211.RVEK23328.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: > >> terrified that the police officer might search the car and find >surinjous >> >>Joshua- >> >>I am in no way making fun of you, but that has *got* to be one of the >best >>ones I've seen in a long time... It took me a good three of four reads >to > >realize that you meant "syringes"... >> Hooked on phonics werked for me! From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 21:44:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 22:44:06 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix References: <15252.62713.157302.381517@phaduka.neurotica.com><3B950984.84A104C1@internet1.net><20010904152240.B9135@cs.millersville.edu><3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net><20010905220102.A5301@cs.millersville.edu> <20010906023815.E80B2EA@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <002f01c1367d$cd4ef400$0501000a@laboffice> I think he meant that there is no central Linux authority with the money to get it licensed as an official UNIX. I may be wrong here, but after a couple readings, that was how I interpreted it. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg A. Woods" To: Cc: "Sun Geeks List" Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 10:38 PM Subject: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix > > For the Unix98 "problem", I answer that is something not Unix just because > > there isn't a central authority to pay for the certification? > > Not to be too picky or anything (my favourite NetBSD doesn't meet Unix98 > either), but there certainly _IS_ a central authority who you can pay to > get full and proper Unix certification, and strictly you cannot call > your system a "unix system" unless you have had it certified as one. > Indeed if you try to declare your system to be a "unix system" without > having first obtained the necessary certification to do so that central > agency will send you a very scary "cease and desist" letter and if you > fail to obey it they'll haul your arse directly into court faster than > you can spell "unix". From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 21:50:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 22:50:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix References: <15252.62713.157302.381517@phaduka.neurotica.com><3B950984.84A104C1@internet1.net><20010904152240.B9135@cs.millersville.edu><3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net><20010905220102.A5301@cs.millersville.edu> <20010906023815.E80B2EA@proven.weird.com> <002f01c1367d$cd4ef400$0501000a@laboffice> <20010905214348.S6901@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <001301c1367e$bc01ac50$0501000a@laboffice> I agree, however, if one company were to do so, chances are high that they would just get their distribution approved as being a UNIX, so that they could use it in marketing and such. I must agree with you, it is rather meaningless, none the less. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reagen B . Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix > On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 10:44:06PM -0400, Zach Malone wrote: > > I think he meant that there is no central Linux authority with the money to > > get it licensed as an official UNIX. I may be wrong here, but after a > > couple readings, that was how I interpreted it. > > You'd think that RedHat or one of these other companies that had a ton > of dough at one point would have done it if it were worthwhile. > > It's really not worthwhile, though. Do you care if Solaris is branded > UNIX? I don't. > > Reagen > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 21:54:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 19:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) In-Reply-To: <20010905214348.S6901@zilla.nu> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > It's really not worthwhile, though. Do you care if Solaris is branded > UNIX? I don't. Neither do I, really. What's funny is that when i went to college (back in the Sun-2 and Sun-3 days), we would've given our *eye teeth* to have a *NIX system of our own. (One of my friends installed MINIX on his 286 for a class, we thought it was bitchin') Now, we have so many choices available that we are jaded about it. Wow. -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 21:58:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 22:58:27 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq References: <15252.62713.157302.381517@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3B950984.84A104C1@internet1.net> <20010904152240.B9135@cs.millersville.edu> <3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net> <20010905220102.A5301@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <001f01c1367f$ce48ab60$0301a8c0@kensportege> See below... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua D Boyd" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq > Personally, I think that claiming that Linux isn't unix is a very pathetic > and artificial distinction. The only evidence that has been pointed out > to support this is lack of Unix98 certification and that it wasn't based > directly on either the BSD code or the AT&T code. Well, the logic is simple - if it were based on either BSD or AT&T code it might be possible to "inherit" the certification, but with out a proper certification it is not Unix, it is Unix-like. A generic drug, reverse engineered from samples, is *not* the original drug, and can not claim it is - same logic (well, nearly)... Ken _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 22:00:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 23:00:17 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix References: <15252.62713.157302.381517@phaduka.neurotica.com><3B950984.84A104C1@internet1.net><20010904152240.B9135@cs.millersville.edu><3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net><20010905220102.A5301@cs.millersville.edu> <20010906023815.E80B2EA@proven.weird.com> <002f01c1367d$cd4ef400$0501000a@laboffice> <20010905214348.S6901@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <002701c13680$0f561ca0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Tee-hee, Sun paid a one-time fee for a license to AT&T Unix source code about the time AT&T sold Unix to SCO, IIRC. Solaris *is* Unix,a nd they can say it if they want, as I understand it... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reagen B . Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix > It's really not worthwhile, though. Do you care if Solaris is branded > UNIX? I don't. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 22:06:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 20:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Getting the message across (was Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) In-Reply-To: <20010905223237.A5678@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > This is getting bad. This is the second time in as many days that people > mentioned needing several readings to understand one of my messages. This > is apparently what I get for not spending a holiday weekend relaxing. Or for skipping English class... :-) (I couldn't resist. I just can't help myself!) -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 22:10:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 20:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) In-Reply-To: <006f01c13681$e6708760$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > Remember how Coherent made such a splash ("Near"-Unix) for $100? That was a > great manual... ;^) I actually bought a copy meself, and returned it, as it wouldn't do any networking at the time... -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 22:13:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 23:13:27 -0400 Subject: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) References: Message-ID: <006f01c13681$e6708760$0301a8c0@kensportege> Remember how Coherent made such a splash ("Near"-Unix) for $100? That was a great manual... ;^) Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter L. Wargo" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 10:54 PM Subject: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) > On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > > > It's really not worthwhile, though. Do you care if Solaris is branded > > UNIX? I don't. > > Neither do I, really. What's funny is that when i went to college (back > in the Sun-2 and Sun-3 days), we would've given our *eye teeth* to have a > *NIX system of our own. (One of my friends installed MINIX on his 286 for > a class, we thought it was bitchin') > > Now, we have so many choices available that we are jaded about it. Wow. > > -Pete > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 22:29:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 23:29:01 -0400 Subject: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) References: Message-ID: <00bb01c13684$136120c0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Butthe manual was *great*! I used it on my 286 laptop to manage our invite list to our wedding... (Took intro to Unix course at the same time...) Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter L. Wargo" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 11:10 PM Subject: Re: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) > On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > > > Remember how Coherent made such a splash ("Near"-Unix) for $100? That was a > > great manual... ;^) > > I actually bought a copy meself, and returned it, as it wouldn't do any > networking at the time... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 22:36:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 23:36:20 -0400 Subject: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) References: <006f01c13681$e6708760$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010905221649.T6901@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <00c301c13685$18d447c0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Come on - it ran on a 80286! ;^) Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reagen B . Ward" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 11:16 PM Subject: Re: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) > I couldn't stand the tiny memory model. I recently met the guy who > wrote the C compiler (Michael Spertus). Interesting fellow. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 5 23:05:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) In-Reply-To: <20010905223924.W6901@zilla.nu> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 11:36:20PM -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > > Come on - it ran on a 80286! ;^) > > So did Microport's SVR2.4/AT, a full SystemV. Let's not forget PC Geos... While not UNIX, it was fast, cool, and motif-ish... -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 00:02:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 05 Sep 2001 22:02:34 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq In-Reply-To: <001f01c1367f$ce48ab60$0301a8c0@kensportege> References: <15252.62713.157302.381517@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3B950984.84A104C1@internet1.net> <20010904152240.B9135@cs.millersville.edu> <3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net> <20010905220102.A5301@cs.millersville.edu> <001f01c1367f$ce48ab60$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <999752554.1192.8.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Wed, 2001-09-05 at 19:58, Ken Hansen wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua D Boyd" > > > Personally, I think that claiming that Linux isn't unix is a very pathetic > > and artificial distinction. The only evidence that has been pointed out > > to support this is lack of Unix98 certification and that it wasn't based > > directly on either the BSD code or the AT&T code. > > Well, the logic is simple - if it were based on either BSD or AT&T code it > might be possible to "inherit" the certification, but with out a proper > certification it is not Unix, it is Unix-like. A generic drug, reverse Except that you can't even say that it's "Unix-Like", because The Open Group doesn't like it. ESR got a letter from them about this, because he was calling Linux Unix-Like. Now he just calls Unix Linux-like. Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 00:28:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 05 Sep 2001 22:28:16 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq In-Reply-To: <20010905221446.C5301@cs.millersville.edu> References: <3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net> <15254.22798.534751.796928@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20010905221446.C5301@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <999754096.1191.18.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Wed, 2001-09-05 at 19:14, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:55:42PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > > I run Redhat on my Linux box because that's the distribution that I > > always hear about. Is there a better alternative that I should be > > running? > > It depends on what you are looking for. At school debian is used because > key people feel that apt-get works better than the redhat > equivalent. And they're absolutely right, depending on which features you're talking about. If you're just looking for a tool to update the currently installed packages to the latest releases, then they both offer the same functionality. If you're looking for a tool that will go out, find packages, download the packages and their dependancies, then apt-get is very clearly the competetive choice. > Mandrake and suse seem to be more aggressive about supporting > the cutting edge desktop features, which probably cuts into stability a > little. Slackware seems to appeal to do it yourselfers. I'm not very familiar with SuSE, but Mandrake has a tendancy to ship -pre alpha- software. As in, they'll ship a piece of software that doesn't even have a list of what it's going to do, let alone have those features implemented yet. It does detract from stability from what I've seen, but it also gets them some really Cool Shit (tm). > Redhat generally seems to be the vanilla choice. Sure, if you want to call it that. Its the best known Linux variant, and they've made some pretty good design choices (at least, ones that I like). chkconfig is blatantly stolen (the idea, anyway) from Irix, and a few other handy utils like that (which I can't remember offhand). > The reality is that all differences are cosmetic and if a program supports > Redhat only, a few hours of rearranging should force it to work on any > linux. If that. For a lost of things, you can simply install the Red Hat package on another distribution. I've installed quite a few binary packages designed for Red Hat on Debian and Mandrake, and had them work flawlessly (well, as flawlessly as they worked on Red Hat, anyway. :-)) > running on my file server. I more recently tried debian for apt-get, but > I've found it rather disappointing. I probably am just stupid, but I just > can't figure out how to force a package to install when the depencies > haven't been met (usually because I chose to install a package via source > code). I will most likely go back to Redhat the next time I reinstall, > but Mandrake or Suse are also possibilities. I'm not sure how to do that via apt, but dpkg -f should "force" package installation. I've found that my time learning to package software has paid off pretty well in that upgrades/removals are really clean. Sometimes installing from source works out well, but I always make sure that it installs into it's own prefix (/opt/gnome_cvs, or some such). > From what I hear, NetBSD and OpenBSD look really great. I rather like GNU > everything, but that can be installed ontop of *BSD. The only problem is > that desktop features that I want aren't as well supported. But that > shouldn't be a problem with most RISC boxes or server boxes. Which desktop features? I wouldn't use OpenBSD for a desktop, but mostly because it comes configured with all useful services disabled. :) NetBSD looks pretty nice, but I haven't had time to set it up as a desktop. I might be doing that with my DEC 3000 box, now that I've "found" a 19" monitor for it. Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 00:35:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 01:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) In-Reply-To: <20010905221649.T6901@zilla.nu> References: <006f01c13681$e6708760$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010905221649.T6901@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010906053532.77F3BEA@proven.weird.com> [ On Wednesday, September 5, 2001 at 22:16:49 (-0500), Reagen B . Ward wrote: ] > Subject: Re: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) > > I couldn't stand the tiny memory model. I recently met the guy who > wrote the C compiler (Michael Spertus). Interesting fellow. I still have both copies of my MWC-86 C compiler manuals on my shelf! ;-) Version 2.1.9 and 3.0.7, from about 1986 or so! Back when I first started programming professionally I ended up doing lots of work on early MS-DOS systems, and MWC was the only compiler that was even half-way reliable on 8086 at the time (Lattice C, which M$ re-badged right up until they released their own MS-C 3.0, was an ultimate DOG!) I only ever played with coherent a few times, but their compiler was so damn good I bought both of those copies myself out of my own pocket, even though I never owned a PC or a copy of MS-DOS at the time! ;-) What a joy that compiler was! Whenever I was forced to use Lattice-C for a job I'd always keep it handy just to prove the bugs I was experiencing were not in my code but rather in the stupid lattice compiler! Their source debugger (csd) was also about 5 years ahead of anyone else in the M$-DOG compiler marget, and it was immensely valuable to me at the time! (M$'s visual C debugger was, eventually, much better, esp. if you were forced to use M$-C for the job....) However I probably got more actual mileage out of MicroEMACS, which came with MWC. That was the only editor I'd use on M$-DOG until I finally got a copy of Jove to compile and work.... They had a real clone of 'ed' too, and it really worked well and exactly like unix ed! -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 00:36:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 01:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) In-Reply-To: <20010905221649.T6901@zilla.nu> References: <006f01c13681$e6708760$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010905221649.T6901@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010906053649.01E1CEA@proven.weird.com> [ On Wednesday, September 5, 2001 at 22:16:49 (-0500), Reagen B . Ward wrote: ] > Subject: Re: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) > > I couldn't stand the tiny memory model. I recently met the guy who > wrote the C compiler (Michael Spertus). Interesting fellow. BTW, what's so bad about the tiny memory model? It was just the same as a PDP-11 without separate I+D! ;-) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 02:39:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 03:39:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) In-Reply-To: <20010906001504.A4923@zilla.nu> References: <006f01c13681$e6708760$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010905221649.T6901@zilla.nu> <20010906053532.77F3BEA@proven.weird.com> <20010906001504.A4923@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010906073957.DDEA8EA@proven.weird.com> [ On Thursday, September 6, 2001 at 00:15:04 (-0500), Reagen B. Ward wrote: ] > Subject: Re: It's amazing (was: Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) > > On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 01:35:32AM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote: > > > I only ever played with coherent a few times, but their compiler was so > > damn good I bought both of those copies myself out of my own pocket, > > even though I never owned a PC or a copy of MS-DOS at the time! ;-) > > If you want, I can pass this along to Mr. Spertus. I'm sure he'd be > pleased to hear it. You're certainly welcome to! Tell him "Thank You!" for me! ;-) I should probably also mention that back then I wasn't making a lot of money, and I was a young single fool spending much of my disposable income on entertainment and such stuff (not even on rescuing old computers!). I also came from a freeware/BBS background, So paying for software out of my own pocket was quite a significant thing for me to do. I see I even made a little note in the front of one manual exclaiming about the $120[usa] upgrade price! ;-) I only wish I could have convinced more clients to use MWC at the time! I guess it was for many of the same reasons it's hard to "sell" *BSD or Linux into a large corporation still today! ;-) If I were to do it all over again I'd probably put my foot down and insist on using better tools. Back then though I was just a programmer working on projects that were usually well along the way.... -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 06:40:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 07:40:41 -0400 Subject: Getting the message across (was Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) References: Message-ID: <006a01c136c8$c25209c0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Pete, come on, he is still in school - you expect too much from a high school graduate! ;^) Ken (Kidding, relax...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter L. Wargo" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 11:06 PM Subject: Getting the message across (was Re: [geeks] Re: linux is not unix) > Or for skipping English class... :-) > > (I couldn't resist. I just can't help myself!) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 08:48:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:48:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq In-Reply-To: <999754096.1191.18.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> References: <3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net> <15254.22798.534751.796928@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20010905221446.C5301@cs.millersville.edu> <999754096.1191.18.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Message-ID: <20010906094852.A27742@cs.millersville.edu> On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 10:28:16PM -0700, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > Which desktop features? I wouldn't use OpenBSD for a desktop, but > mostly because it comes configured with all useful services disabled. > :) NetBSD looks pretty nice, but I haven't had time to set it up as a > desktop. I might be doing that with my DEC 3000 box, now that I've > "found" a 19" monitor for it. SBLive support isn't in the BSDs yet, to my understanding. Also 3D acceleration isn't as good in the BSDs (not that I can ever get it working on linux, but in theory it should work). Those two are pretty much the main things, although I also wonder how well things like my DXR2 and video capture cards would work, but they aren't as important. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 09:29:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Paul Sladen) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 15:29:14 +0100 (BST) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq In-Reply-To: <155201c13682$1eebe8f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > > At school debian is used because key people feel that apt-get works > > better than the redhat equivalent. > > We use SuSE almost exclusivley at work. All told, SuSE > seems to be a very mature distibution of Linux. [I've just re-read what I've written, it isn't intended as a flame-bait]. [To Geeks if it turns into one]. FWIW. I used SuSE because it rocked (hey, I even have box-sets on my Shelf), then I get into Sparcs, SuSE just /wouldn't/ install, Debian did, and straight off the net too. So now, I run Debian everywhere, because it runs on most archs out there (don't mention NetBSD); It apt-get's anything I need, on demand. (Tip: When you have 40 Debian Boxen all set up to us a single Mirror site and a Proxy, installs just *fly*). Debian also allows me to work the opposite way; instead of installing everything across 6 cds -- on the off-chance that I might need it -- I install the base 50MB on a machine, and the next time I happen to need {dig,traceroute,emacs,finger,killall}, I just type `apt-get install foo', and there it is, downloaded, installed, and ready to use in 20seconds. (This allows me sell a Debian Managed Server with a 2.1GB disk as 2GB!). Security: `apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade' twice a week in the Cron files, and the machines patch *themselves*. Kudos to the Debian Security team. Paul I once asked the chief tech guy of my local telco if he ever intended to patch the Caldera install he had just done. He said No. I sold him Debian. From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 11:10:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:10:03 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products Message-ID: <20010906111003.L17871@mrbill.net> Is it just me, or is the "cellphone expander antenna" thing that you put under your battery in a cellphone the worst, stupidest, makes-no-sense, scam-the-public product you've ever seen? IF ITS NOT HOOKED UP TO THE ACTUAL ANTENNA, ITS NOT GONNA HELP. "Works on any mobile phone". BULLSHIT. ANTENNA NEEDS TO BE A MULTIPLE OR FRACTION OF THE WAVELENGTH OF THE PHONE TO WORK RIGHT. Grrr. I hate these infomercials almost as much as miss cleo. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 11:26:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:26:03 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products Message-ID: > IF ITS NOT HOOKED UP TO THE ACTUAL ANTENNA, ITS NOT GONNA HELP. Actually, no. Now, let me extingiush the flames before they start. I am not saying these $5 bogus cheapie things work for cell phones. But, there is such a thing as an inductively coupled radiator in antenna design. Thats how the "glass mount" antennas and "beam" directional antennas work. In *theory* such a device could exist for cell phones. I don't think it would look anything like the ones for sale today. Now, on to more bogosities, the "Cell Phone Passive Repeaters" that are a loop of wire or foil that attaches to a cars side window is so freakin far from inductively coupled it should be illegal to sell them. From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 11:28:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 12:28:58 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products References: <20010906111003.L17871@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3B97A44A.3E44144@avoidant.org> Bill Bradford wrote: > Grrr. I hate these infomercials almost as much as miss cleo. But miss cleo helped me find my car keys. She's good. Actually, I've always thought psychics should call ME if I have a problem. If they did, I'd gladly pay. "Hi, this is Miss Cleo. My psychic vision has shown me that your car keys are in the bottom of the washing machine in the front right pocket of your green khakis." "Hold on" {runs for basement} "Cool, MasterCard or Visa?" Heh. ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 11:36:29 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 16:36:29 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products In-Reply-To: <20010906111003.L17871@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > Is it just me, or is the "cellphone expander antenna" thing that you put > under your battery in a cellphone the worst, stupidest, makes-no-sense, > scam-the-public product you've ever seen? Yes. > IF ITS NOT HOOKED UP TO THE ACTUAL ANTENNA, ITS NOT GONNA HELP. > > "Works on any mobile phone". BULLSHIT. ANTENNA NEEDS TO BE A > MULTIPLE OR FRACTION OF THE WAVELENGTH OF THE PHONE TO WORK RIGHT. [Splitting hairs] Unless it's using sub-resonant antenna theory. That's the stuff used with ultra-low power transmitters to do spy work. (http://www.timedomain.com comes to mind -- but they are convinced thier Chief Innovator *invented* Direct Sequence Spread Spectrum -- he just calls it "Wideband". Loads of FUD.) I'd really like to see what the big idea of that piece of metal is -- that one and the companion product that's supposed to block 90% of the RF headed toward your head by covering the speaker with a mesh grille. The *stupidest* hams have a better clue about antenna theory and how radio works than your average person does about their cell phone. But hams have to pass a test. (Probably a good thing if you've ever had to deal with a CB "expert".) ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 11:41:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 12:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products In-Reply-To: <3B97A44A.3E44144@avoidant.org> Message-ID: > "Hi, this is Miss Cleo. My psychic vision has shown me that your car > keys are in the bottom of the washing machine in the front right pocket > of your green khakis." > > "Hold on" {runs for basement} "Cool, MasterCard or Visa?" > > Heh. > If they were that good, they should already have your MC or Visa number. "Hi, this is Miss Cleo. Your keys are downstairs. Your credit card will be charged $10.95". From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 11:47:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:47:17 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products Message-ID: If they were that good I would ask them for stock market picks. > If they were that good, they should already have your MC or > Visa number. > "Hi, this is Miss Cleo. Your keys are downstairs. Your > credit card will > be charged $10.95". > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 11:56:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 12:56:03 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products In-Reply-To: <20010906111003.L17871@mrbill.net> References: <20010906111003.L17871@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010906125603.A32365@cs.millersville.edu> On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 11:10:03AM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > Is it just me, or is the "cellphone expander antenna" thing that you put > under your battery in a cellphone the worst, stupidest, makes-no-sense, > scam-the-public product you've ever seen? > > IF ITS NOT HOOKED UP TO THE ACTUAL ANTENNA, ITS NOT GONNA HELP. > > "Works on any mobile phone". BULLSHIT. ANTENNA NEEDS TO BE A > MULTIPLE OR FRACTION OF THE WAVELENGTH OF THE PHONE TO WORK RIGHT. Local news show tested that thingy and couldn't find a single instance where it improved reception. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 12:38:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 12:38:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products In-Reply-To: <20010906111003.L17871@mrbill.net> Message-ID: If I remember correctly, Digital phones dont even require that much of an antenna when working in digital mode. So if you have digital service(like most of the population does now) it does no good unless your in analog roam. |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 15:43:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 20:43:27 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Benjamin Kelley wrote: > If I remember correctly, Digital phones dont even require that much of an > antenna when working in digital mode. So if you have digital service(like > most of the population does now) it does no good unless your in analog > roam. Nay -- Digital mode uses 1.8 GHz, IIRC; Analog is 800-900 MHz. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 16:44:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] RE: [rescue] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010906214407.4784CEA@proven.weird.com> [[ MOVE TO GEEKS!!!! THIS SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN POSTED ON RESCUE!!!! ]] [ On Thursday, September 6, 2001 at 13:27:40 (-0700), Fogg, James wrote: ] > Subject: RE: [rescue] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) > > We had a simular problem here with an Exchange server migration. The Unix > users were horrified at having to use MSFT to use Windows so they could use > Outlook (Look-out). Since we are doing the groupware thing it required > Outlook (you can use non-outlook mail clients with Exchange if all you want > is mail). group-ware shmoop-ware! You DO NOT need to use such crap. e-mail alone is fine -- your IT guys must be bugged out on M$ juice or something! Once upon a time a BBS, or even private Usenet groups, sufficed.... > Elegant solution.... > Echange Web Interface! They have a web interface that looks, smells and > functions exactly like outlook, but only needs a browser (less bandwidth > hungry too). Its not even Explorer specific. I use it with Linux and > Netscape. You don't always have to use MS crap on the desktop. Probably needs Jscript or similar scary stuff..... :-) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 16:46:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) In-Reply-To: <3B97EA52.25B1666A@agrijag.com> References: <20010906073049.DBE81EA@proven.weird.com> <15255.51224.895024.715720@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3B97EA52.25B1666A@agrijag.com> Message-ID: <20010906214634.DFF8AEA@proven.weird.com> [ On Thursday, September 6, 2001 at 17:27:46 (-0400), Michael S. Schiller wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [rescue] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) > > Well, sometimes it's not a NEED as in will die without it, but rather a > NEED as in a few (very few) programs written for Win do make life easier. > Now if only they would port them to Unix :) Show me just one which fulfills requirements not equally easy to fulfill on a modern Unix desktop. Of course for the GUI-brained masses there's also MacOS, and you don't have to run any M$ crapware on MacOS if you don't want to. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 17:00:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:00:47 -0500 Subject: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) In-Reply-To: <20010906214634.DFF8AEA@proven.weird.com> References: <20010906073049.DBE81EA@proven.weird.com> <15255.51224.895024.715720@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3B97EA52.25B1666A@agrijag.com> <20010906214634.DFF8AEA@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010906170047.B11039@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 05:46:34PM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote: > Show me just one which fulfills requirements not equally easy to fulfill > on a modern Unix desktop. > Of course for the GUI-brained masses there's also MacOS, and you don't > have to run any M$ crapware on MacOS if you don't want to. *cough* Dont go slagging MacOS here, me'boy. Have you looked at OS X lately? Its UNIX, down underneath. You can get at the guts if you want, by opening a Terminal window and getting a bash prompt. I've been using one as my main desk machine at home (SSHing to my other Sun boxen) and love it. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 17:49:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:49:20 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products References: Message-ID: <168b01c13726$2e1b4ab0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> If they were that good, the damn psychics wouldn't be hawking themselves on daytime tv. They'd know the Powerball numbers, and all be filthy rich. Kurt > If they were that good I would ask them for stock market picks. > > > If they were that good, they should already have your MC or > > Visa number. > > "Hi, this is Miss Cleo. Your keys are downstairs. Your > > credit card will > > be charged $10.95". > > From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 18:44:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:44:11 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products In-Reply-To: <168b01c13726$2e1b4ab0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <168b01c13726$2e1b4ab0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010906194411.A13416@cs.millersville.edu> On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 06:49:20PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > If they were that good, the damn psychics wouldn't be hawking themselves on > daytime tv. They'd know the Powerball numbers, and all be filthy rich. But don't you know that they sincerely want to help you? That is why they call when you are in deepest need. Oh wait, they don't. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 18:58:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) In-Reply-To: <20010906170047.B11039@mrbill.net> References: <20010906073049.DBE81EA@proven.weird.com> <15255.51224.895024.715720@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3B97EA52.25B1666A@agrijag.com> <20010906214634.DFF8AEA@proven.weird.com> <20010906170047.B11039@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010906235815.48E86EA@proven.weird.com> [ On Thursday, September 6, 2001 at 17:00:47 (-0500), Bill Bradford wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) > > *cough* Dont go slagging MacOS here, me'boy. Have you looked at > OS X lately? Its UNIX, down underneath. You can get at the guts > if you want, by opening a Terminal window and getting a bash prompt. Oh, I'm not slagging MacOS, and especially not MacOS-X! Yes, I've looked very very closely at MacOS-X. I'm very impressed despite there still being a few warts.... -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 19:46:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael S. Schiller) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 20:46:19 -0400 Subject: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) References: <20010906073049.DBE81EA@proven.weird.com> <15255.51224.895024.715720@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3B97EA52.25B1666A@agrijag.com> <20010906214634.DFF8AEA@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <3B9818DB.DDC676B3@agrijag.com> Greg: well the program I use for keeping track of my ebay auctions is one. It's called Auctiontamer, and while it uses IE as it's browser, it does a lot more than just a browser. Could I get along without it? Sure, but it does make auction management much easier. And besides, if I didn't have at least one app that used Windows, how would I justify having a SunPCi card in my U5? -Mike "Greg A. Woods" wrote: > [ On Thursday, September 6, 2001 at 17:27:46 (-0400), Michael S. Schiller wrote: ] > > Subject: Re: [rescue] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) > > > > Well, sometimes it's not a NEED as in will die without it, but rather a > > NEED as in a few (very few) programs written for Win do make life easier. > > Now if only they would port them to Unix :) > > Show me just one which fulfills requirements not equally easy to fulfill > on a modern Unix desktop. > > Of course for the GUI-brained masses there's also MacOS, and you don't > have to run any M$ crapware on MacOS if you don't want to. > > -- > Greg A. Woods > > +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP > Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 19:56:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) In-Reply-To: <20010906214634.DFF8AEA@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Greg A. Woods wrote: > Of course for the GUI-brained masses there's also MacOS, and you don't > have to run any M$ crapware on MacOS if you don't want to. How about: "Of course, for those who have a need to run commerrcial or educational software that is targeted toward the non-UNIX user, MacOS is a better choice than any mickeysoft POS." Keep in mind that MacOS X is UNIX under the gloss, and prettty good at that. I, as much as anybody, use UNIX for a buttload of things (Ummm... my company prefers it?), but I have both SPARCstations and Macs at home. Different tools for different needs. I would be foolish to trry and shoehorn my needs into one system, if two can cover them better. They're tools, not a religion. If I could rely on Windows (and if it worked in a way that I found productive) I'd use it. But, MacOS and UNIX fill my needs. -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 20:07:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Amy) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 20:07:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010906200641.M87419-100000@feeding.frenzy.com> your 'r' key is sticking, pete :) might wanna blow out your keyboard. --a On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > How about: "Of course, for those who have a need to run commerrcial or > educational software that is targeted toward the non-UNIX user, MacOS is a > better choice than any mickeysoft POS." > > Keep in mind that MacOS X is UNIX under the gloss, and prettty good at > that. I, as much as anybody, use UNIX for a buttload of things (Ummm... > my company prefers it?), but I have both SPARCstations and Macs at home. > Different tools for different needs. I would be foolish to trry and > shoehorn my needs into one system, if two can cover them better. > > They're tools, not a religion. If I could rely on Windows (and if it > worked in a way that I found productive) I'd use it. But, MacOS and UNIX > fill my needs. > > -Pete > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 20:24:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Paul Sladen) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 02:24:39 +0100 (BST) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Flying Pigs In-Reply-To: <20010906170310.C11039@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > but I have to speak up here - until I had a hardware failure, I didnt > reboot my Win2K PC here at work for 2-3 months at a time - Rebooting is admittedly different from Crashing... Yes Bill, we have flying pigs in the UK too. From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 20:31:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 21:31:53 -0400 Subject: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) In-Reply-To: <3B9818DB.DDC676B3@agrijag.com> References: <20010906073049.DBE81EA@proven.weird.com> <15255.51224.895024.715720@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3B97EA52.25B1666A@agrijag.com> <20010906214634.DFF8AEA@proven.weird.com> <3B9818DB.DDC676B3@agrijag.com> Message-ID: <20010906213153.A15086@cs.millersville.edu> On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 08:46:19PM -0400, Michael S. Schiller wrote: > Greg: > > well the program I use for keeping track of my ebay auctions is one. It's called > Auctiontamer, and while it uses IE as it's browser, it does a lot more than just a > browser. Could I get along without it? Sure, but it does make auction management much > easier. And besides, if I didn't have at least one app that used Windows, how would > I justify having a SunPCi card in my U5? OK here is what you do. Port Netbsd to the SunPCi card, then use the linux compatibility layer to run Mathematic for Linux student edition (for $140 with student ID). -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 21:07:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 22:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) In-Reply-To: <3B9818DB.DDC676B3@agrijag.com> References: <20010906073049.DBE81EA@proven.weird.com> <15255.51224.895024.715720@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3B97EA52.25B1666A@agrijag.com> <20010906214634.DFF8AEA@proven.weird.com> <3B9818DB.DDC676B3@agrijag.com> Message-ID: <20010907020745.EC8A1EA@proven.weird.com> [ On Thursday, September 6, 2001 at 20:46:19 (-0400), Michael S. Schiller wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) > > well the program I use for keeping track of my ebay auctions is one. It's called > Auctiontamer, and while it uses IE as it's browser, it does a lot more than just a > browser. Could I get along without it? Sure, but it does make auction management much > easier. OK, so there's a little tool that's highly dependend on M$ software in practice, but not in principle, and it's probably something any half-clued developer could write up for nearly any browser, right? In fact I'll bet there already exist Netscape variants for MacOS. ;-) Often the problem with such tools is that people never look further than the first solution they find, just as in any situation where there are lots of alternatives. M$'s trick is just to get in your face first, or in the case of something like this Auctiontamer thing to get in the developer's face. (Not that Apple and all the rest don't also cozy up to developers and entice them to lock into their platforms....) Personally I just use a couple windows running really simple text-only browsers that won't get hung up because some counter/image server is overloaded, and then I use cut&paste tricks if passwords, etc. are necessary. But I'm not much of an on-line auction nut. If I play the game I'll usually just strike once, very quickly, at the very last second and either I win, or I don't. I usually only have one top price I'm willing to pay, and most auction servers (all the ones I'll use, anyway) are nice enough to only show the seller the amount necessary for me to win the bid, not what my limit was! ;-) > And besides, if I didn't have at least one app that used Windows, how would > I justify having a SunPCi card in my U5? So, you've not only bought into the Evil Empire, you stuck its tentacles directly inside your pretty little Sun machine! Gak! :-) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 21:58:31 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 22:58:31 -0400 Subject: [geeks] 3com audrey References: <20010906110756.B12460@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <004201c13748$fae3f160$0301a8c0@kensportege> That's a CF slot, not PCMCIA... It is used for upgrading the OS/software. I would prefer built-in ethernet, but a $30 USB adapter is fine, really - the only other USB option supported, IIRC, is a few Cannon bubble jet printers... I haven't gotten around to stringing the Cat5 to the Kitchen (just lazy I guess)... I think the channels issues will be resolved, once there is a critical mass of users... An answering machine would be redundant for most folks, and it would offer almost *no* integration with the Palm/Audrey... I want to tinker some more with the audio email stuff.... ;^) Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reagen B. Ward" To: "SunHelp Geeks List" Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:07 PM Subject: [geeks] 3com audrey > Just got my Audrey in. Very cute, very nice. I have to say that I'm > very pleased with it. My only problems are: > > 1. EOL product, so web channels don't work anymore > 2. Have to use USB NIC rather than a nice RealPort in the PCMCIA slot. > 3. Wish it had built-in answering machine, but that's not a big deal _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 22:58:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 23:58:32 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products References: <20010906111003.L17871@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <004301c13751$5d1aca40$0301a8c0@kensportege> Bill, Some benefit is possible, I suspect... A stick-on ground plane could improve the performance of a cellphone, but the benefit will be, uhm, slight *at best* IMHO. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:10 PM Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products > Is it just me, or is the "cellphone expander antenna" thing that you put > under your battery in a cellphone the worst, stupidest, makes-no-sense, > scam-the-public product you've ever seen? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 23:02:25 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 00:02:25 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products References: Message-ID: <005d01c13751$e7a03740$0301a8c0@kensportege> No, they are so good they know you won't belive them, so they don't bother calling you ;^) Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fogg, James" To: Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:47 PM Subject: RE: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products > If they were that good I would ask them for stock market picks. > > > If they were that good, they should already have your MC or > > Visa number. > > "Hi, this is Miss Cleo. Your keys are downstairs. Your > > credit card will > > be charged $10.95". _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 6 23:45:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 21:45:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! (please excuse this OT rant) In-Reply-To: <20010906200641.M87419-100000@feeding.frenzy.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Amy wrote: > your 'r' key is sticking, pete :) might wanna blow out your keyboard. Could be too much nigori sake... :-) (Or, it could be the damn macally keyboard on my g4, it pretty well sucks...) -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 00:36:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D Bhargav) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 11:06:45 +0530 Subject: [geeks] n/w booting through realmode drivers for Solaris References: <14e32b14e898.14e89814e32b@wipro.com> Message-ID: <3B985CED.2FBDC7E3@wipro.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Everybody, I tried to boot my system through the network (diskless network booting) from another Solaris x86 server acting as a RARP server also. The booting proceeds fine till a point where I get the message "Unable to root file" and hangs afterwards. I guess there is problem with the server configuration. Can anybody give me any pointers for the server setup? Thanks, Bhargav --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary Content-Type: text/plain; name="Wipro_Disclaimer.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Wipro_Disclaimer.txt" The Information contained and transmitted by this E-MAIL is proprietary to Wipro and/or its Customer and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If this is a forwarded message, the content of this E-MAIL may not have been sent with the authority of the Company. If you are not the intended recipient, an agent of the intended recipient or a person responsible for delivering the information to the named recipient, you are notified that any use, distribution, transmission, printing, copying or dissemination of this information in any way or in any manner is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please delete this mail & notify us immediately at mailadmin at wipro.com --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary-- From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 01:13:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 02:13:32 -0400 Subject: [geeks] WTB: Laptop hard disk 10-20 GB Message-ID: <01090702143803.01205@two-time.twmaster.com> Anybody got a nice used one around at a reasonable price? IDE for Toshiba laptop. Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 05:28:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 11:28:22 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Grrr. stupid products In-Reply-To: <20010906111003.L17871@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 11:10:03AM -0500 References: <20010906111003.L17871@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010907112821.C21443@plough.barnyard.co.uk> On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 11:10:03AM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > Is it just me, or is the "cellphone expander antenna" thing that you put > under your battery in a cellphone the worst, stupidest, makes-no-sense, > scam-the-public product you've ever seen? Do you not have truth-in-advertising laws? > "Works on any mobile phone". BULLSHIT. ANTENNA NEEDS TO BE A > MULTIPLE OR FRACTION OF THE WAVELENGTH OF THE PHONE TO WORK RIGHT. All phones use one of a small set of frequencies, so provided you can find a length which is an integer multiple (or a fraction) of all of them then you're sorted. As there are generally only two or three frequencies used (for GSM, it's 900MHz, 1800MHz and 1900MHz), this is not a hard problem. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation. -- Johnny Hart From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 06:58:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 07:58:15 -0400 Subject: [geeks] WTB: Laptop hard disk 10-20 GB References: <01090702143803.01205@two-time.twmaster.com> Message-ID: <002b01c13794$616ff820$0301a8c0@kensportege> go to www.dirtcheapdrives.com - $97 for a 10 Gig IBM drive *new*, $120 for 20 Gig IBM drive *new*... Both are 9.5 mm tall, so should work in nearly all applications. BTW, they have a 48 Gig Notebook drive too - I wonder if that would work in my SPARCbook (w/ appropriate SCSI<->IDE adapter)? ;^) How much will you really save buying used? HTH, Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Nicewonger" To: Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 2:13 AM Subject: [geeks] WTB: Laptop hard disk 10-20 GB > Anybody got a nice used one around at a reasonable price? IDE for Toshiba > laptop. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 09:18:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 10:18:47 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Flying Pigs - OT WIN2K speed References: <20010906170310.C11039@mrbill.net> <20010907042920.K11039@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <002101c137a8$08deb110$0501000a@laboffice> (Moved to geeks) Win 2k is fairly fast, outside of a couple things. I have it running on a dual P3 box, and it is very stable, I have never had a full crash in the length of time that I have owned this machine, but partial crashes, where you end up needing to logout are fairly common. Speed wise, with the exception of the IE FTP client flakiness, it is a very fast OS, and very snappy. Hope that helps. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Hames" To: Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 8:40 AM Subject: RE: [rescue] Flying Pigs - OT WIN2K speed > Well, given that Win2K appears to kick NT butt in terms of stability, > what's the speed like? > > Stefan > > > > >On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 02:24:39AM +0100, Paul Sladen wrote: > >> On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > >> > but I have to speak up here - until I had a hardware failure, I didnt > >> > reboot my Win2K PC here at work for 2-3 months at a time - > >> Rebooting is admittedly different from Crashing... > >> Yes Bill, we have flying pigs in the UK too. > > > >This system *never* crashed. I know you're thinking "yeah, right", but > >I'm serious... > > > >Bill > > > -- > ======================================================================== > Stefan Hames > Post-Doctoral Associate > Bird Population Studies > Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology > 159 Sapsucker Woods Road > Ithaca, NY 14850 > Phone: 607-273-4915 (home) > 607-254-2496 (lab) > 607-254-2111 (fax) > > ======================================================================== > _______________________________________________ > rescue maillist - rescue at sunhelp.org > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 09:18:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Simeon Johnston) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 09:18:49 -0500 Subject: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! Apple rules, All hail Apple! References: Message-ID: <3B98D73E.C83E2871@eetc.com> "Peter L. Wargo" wrote: > > On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Greg A. Woods wrote: > > > Of course for the GUI-brained masses there's also MacOS, and you don't > > have to run any M$ crapware on MacOS if you don't want to. > > How about: "Of course, for those who have a need to run commerrcial or > educational software that is targeted toward the non-UNIX user, MacOS is a > better choice than any mickeysoft POS. Agreed. > Keep in mind that MacOS X is UNIX under the gloss, and prettty good at > that. I, as much as anybody, use UNIX for a buttload of things (Ummm... > my company prefers it?), but I have both SPARCstations and Macs at home. > Different tools for different needs. I would be foolish to trry and > shoehorn my needs into one system, if two can cover them better. Looks more like your left index finger is sticking to me. :) tttttttttrrrrrrrrr... Hope the saki was good. > They're tools, not a religion. If I could rely on Windows (and if it > worked in a way that I found productive) I'd use it. But, MacOS and UNIX > fill my needs. Mine too. I agree. M$ sucks big red monkey ***. I've been reading all the comments on MacOS. I LOVE MacOS but don't have a computer that'll handle X yet. I'm stuck w/ 8.6. It's very stable for me. Of course I have to reboot nightly, NOT because the system is unstable but because netcrap takes memory and doesn't give it back. I need all the ram I can get for the nightly server backup (Retrospect rules BTW). I also am learning to program for the mac (pre X). I have grand plans.... What I haven't seen yet is anyone's opinion on Applescript. I have done a bit w/ applescript and find it to be very easy and powerfull. I love being able to automate most of my job. Granted that a dead hering could do my job but still... I have never seen anything like it for *nix machines. If there is please tell me. Anyone have any experience w/ Applescript? sim From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 09:33:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 10:33:32 -0400 Subject: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! Apple rules, All hail Apple! In-Reply-To: <3B98D73E.C83E2871@eetc.com> References: <3B98D73E.C83E2871@eetc.com> Message-ID: > >I've been reading all the comments on MacOS. I LOVE MacOS but don't >have a computer that'll handle X yet. I'm stuck w/ 8.6. >It's very stable for me. Of course I have to reboot nightly, NOT >because the system is unstable but because netcrap takes memory and >doesn't give it back. I need all the ram I can get for the nightly >server backup (Retrospect rules BTW). What netscape are you using? I've had very little problem with 4.0.5 on my 8500 running 8.6. I do have 96mb of ram on it though so that might make a difference. >I also am learning to program for the mac (pre X). I have grand plans.... Oooh... have fun. Make sure to grab all the Inside Macintosh PDFs apple has burried on their website. I have a bunch of them if anybody needs them. I would recommend that you write to the carbon spec if possible just so it runs under both 8.6 and X without recompiles. >What I haven't seen yet is anyone's opinion on Applescript. I have done >a bit w/ applescript and find it to be very easy and powerfull. I love >being able to automate most of my job. Granted that a dead hering could >do my job but still... Apple script rocks. I used to use it all the time back in the 7 Pro days. Anybody remember System 7 Pro? I haven't used it in a long time but I think that I could do a lot with it if I needed to. It was especially usefull with codewarrior when I needed to do something to a large number of files (automate search/replace/indent accross an entire project). The one thing about writing for OS X is I miss my codewarrior scripts that I had built up. >I have never seen anything like it for *nix machines. If there is >please tell me. You can do a lot of what I did with AS with expect/sh/sed/awk/grep but thats limited to file stuff primarily. You can't interact with netscape through those. >Anyone have any experience w/ Applescript? A friend of mine recently wrote an airport network scanner for his iBook. He drives arround torronto with his iBook sysbeeping when ever it finds an open network. Its things like that (interacting with the airport app directly) that can't be done without AS. daniel From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 13:53:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Simeon Johnston) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 13:53:39 -0500 Subject: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! Apple rules, All hail Apple! References: <3B98D73E.C83E2871@eetc.com> Message-ID: <3B991781.51D9CB13@eetc.com> Big Endian wrote: > What netscape are you using? I've had very little problem with 4.0.5 > on my 8500 running 8.6. I do have 96mb of ram on it though so that > might make a difference. 4.78... Maybe that's my problem. I have to downgrade. :) Other than the ram thing (and the network communication stopping for no reason) it works fine. It doesn't do it as much now but every once in a while I'll notice that I'm missing 50MB ram after I quit... BTW, I got 384MB ram - Beige G3 Desktop. > Oooh... have fun. Make sure to grab all the Inside Macintosh PDFs > apple has burried on their website. I have a bunch of them if > anybody needs them. I would recommend that you write to the carbon > spec if possible just so it runs under both 8.6 and X without > recompiles. Inside Macintosh? I thought those were only in printed form... I'll have to find them now. :) > Apple script rocks. I used to use it all the time back in the 7 Pro > days. Anybody remember System 7 Pro? I haven't used it in a long > time but I think that I could do a lot with it if I needed to. It > was especially usefull with codewarrior when I needed to do something > to a large number of files (automate search/replace/indent accross an > entire project). The one thing about writing for OS X is I miss my > codewarrior scripts that I had built up. I've been using it w/ Quark, Retrospect and some basic system maintenance stuff. > You can do a lot of what I did with AS with expect/sh/sed/awk/grep > but thats limited to file stuff primarily. You can't interact with > netscape through those. That's what I mean. No real program control. Of course that depends on the program. If the program supports, say Python, you could probably do some of the things. Not too sure about that though. > A friend of mine recently wrote an airport network scanner for his > iBook. He drives arround torronto with his iBook sysbeeping when > ever it finds an open network. Its things like that (interacting > with the airport app directly) that can't be done without AS. Awesome. sim From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 15:49:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 07 Sep 2001 13:49:57 -0700 Subject: [geeks] another rescue In-Reply-To: <20010807160444.L2815@wintermute.arkham.ws> Message-ID: <86heuebua2.fsf_-_@koyote.cx> But did she rescue me, or did I rescue her? I've found one who has stuck around for more than 2 weeks and is a geek. a solaris geek, no less, though she's not into hardware like I am..... They are out there, I promise! (and we don't even have to fight over boxen, she has a sunblade 100.) -Christof no more yelling about piles of pcb on the bed/couch/table. From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 16:06:35 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:06:35 -0500 Subject: [geeks] another rescue In-Reply-To: <86heuebua2.fsf_-_@koyote.cx> References: <20010807160444.L2815@wintermute.arkham.ws> <86heuebua2.fsf_-_@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <20010907160635.X26352@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 01:49:57PM -0700, koyote at koyote.cx wrote: > But did she rescue me, or did I rescue her? Thats kinda how it was with Amy and myself. 8-) > I've found one who has stuck around for more than 2 weeks > and is a geek. a solaris geek, no less, though she's not > into hardware like I am..... > They are out there, I promise! > (and we don't even have to fight over boxen, she has a sunblade 100.) Woah. Not bad. I remember being SO proud the day I came home and Amy had wiped Windows off her box and installed a dual-boot RedHat/ BeOS config because "I got sick and tired of Windows crashing". She's since turned into a bona-fide Solaris geek. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 16:43:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 07 Sep 2001 14:43:01 -0700 Subject: [geeks] another rescue In-Reply-To: <20010907160635.X26352@mrbill.net> References: <20010807160444.L2815@wintermute.arkham.ws> <86heuebua2.fsf_-_@koyote.cx> <20010907160635.X26352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <86d752brtm.fsf@koyote.cx> >Woah. Not bad. I remember being SO proud the day I came home and >Amy had wiped Windows off her box and installed a dual-boot RedHat/ >BeOS config because "I got sick and tired of Windows crashing". >She's since turned into a bona-fide Solaris geek. She has to use most OSen- she works in software licensing/availability at UCDavis. But she's a secret bsd geek, too. I don't think she has an active linux install right now. I'm actually heading up for the weekend and taking my spare pc (the one windows box between us) to watch dvd's. I think we'll set it up for dual boot and leave it there. (more room for my sparcs) -Christof From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 17:14:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 18:14:08 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Battery for ThinkPad PS/Note 425C.... In-Reply-To: <15436849680.20010907171639@crosswinds.net> References: <15436849680.20010907171639@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <01090718165702.00712@two-time.twmaster.com> > > I'd like to get it running for my cheezy serial/SSH/telnet console > system since it's pretty self-contained. It won't come up without > some type of battery in it despite having the power supply. > (Unless there's a trick I don't know about it...) On the subject of cranky ThinkPads, I have an power series 820 ThinkPad (PPC 603e @ 120 MHz) I am trying to get to wake up. I have a battery but I am not sure if I have the correct power brick. How to lay a charge on the battery to see if this is at all good? Or is there some magical incantation I am missing. Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 17:16:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 17:16:39 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Battery for ThinkPad PS/Note 425C.... Message-ID: <15436849680.20010907171639@crosswinds.net> (Cross-Posted to Geeks.) Anybody got a battery for an old IBM 425C PS/Note? (2618-C45 Codename:Angelfish) Even if it's dead I'll take it - I can get a good choice of ni-cad/nimh batteries locally to refurbish battery packs. I'd like to get it running for my cheezy serial/SSH/telnet console system since it's pretty self-contained. It won't come up without some type of battery in it despite having the power supply. (Unless there's a trick I don't know about it...) Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 7 17:46:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 17:46:46 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Battery for ThinkPad PS/Note 425C.... In-Reply-To: <01090718165702.00712@two-time.twmaster.com> References: <15436849680.20010907171639@crosswinds.net> <01090718165702.00712@two-time.twmaster.com> Message-ID: <17538656577.20010907174646@crosswinds.net> >> >> I'd like to get it running for my cheezy serial/SSH/telnet console >> system since it's pretty self-contained. It won't come up without >> some type of battery in it despite having the power supply. >> (Unless there's a trick I don't know about it...) MN> On the subject of cranky ThinkPads, I have an power series 820 ThinkPad (PPC MN> 603e @ 120 MHz) I am trying to get to wake up. I have a battery but I am not MN> sure if I have the correct power brick. How to lay a charge on the battery to MN> see if this is at all good? I'd start by comparing the output of the brick to the specs of the battery. If they're close then look to see if you can find the amps required by the ThinkPad. You might be able to do a 10-second quick-connect of the brick output directly to the battery so see if you can't get some sort of flicker out of the book via a surface charge on the battery. The link I came up with off the top of my Google was here: http://confusatron.com/tech/Power820.html This guy might have some leads for you. In fact, looking at his page, he has some links to others using this ilk of laptop. Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 8 00:22:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 22:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] MSFT == a-holes! Apple rules, All hail Apple! In-Reply-To: <3B98D73E.C83E2871@eetc.com> Message-ID: > What I haven't seen yet is anyone's opinion on Applescript. I have done > a bit w/ applescript and find it to be very easy and powerfull. I love > being able to automate most of my job. Granted that a dead hering could > do my job but still... Well, I am embarking on a project to build a web-driven MP3 server for our home stereo system, based on a PM7600 (when it arrives!), MacOS 9.X, MacHttp, Soundjam MP, and Applescript. I plan on documejnting the process, should it actually work. > I have never seen anything like it for *nix machines. If there is > please tell me. Hmmm... A combination of shell scripts, pipes, expect, and such. UNIX is like a good instrument - you learn the basics in a short time, but mastery is a delightful liftetime of effort. (Actually, I look forward to trying OS X's trick of linking Applescripts to shell scripts. Too cool.) > Anyone have any experience w/ Applescript? Place I used to work at was in the publishing industry, and had a full-time applescript guy. -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 8 15:01:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 16:01:45 -0400 Subject: It's alive!! [was: [geeks] Battery for ThinkPad PS/Note 425C] In-Reply-To: <14743765460.20010907191154@crosswinds.net> References: <15436849680.20010907171639@crosswinds.net> <01090718495405.00712@two-time.twmaster.com> <14743765460.20010907191154@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <01090816064101.01764@two-time.twmaster.com> Well good news, After taking the battery pack apart and disecting it a bit I was able to charge the pack somewhat and managed to get the ThinkPad Power Series 820 to wake up!! To find some version of AIX that we have no password for :) (next hurdle after the batteries thing) Unforunately the cells are hosed and I will need to find replacement cells since the pack is otherwise unobtainuim. So the word is, Many TP's require a good battery to power on at all. *dumb idea* Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 8 16:53:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 17:53:46 -0400 Subject: It's alive!! [was: [geeks] Battery for ThinkPad PS/Note 425C] References: <15436849680.20010907171639@crosswinds.net> <01090718495405.00712@two-time.twmaster.com> <14743765460.20010907191154@crosswinds.net> <01090816064101.01764@two-time.twmaster.com> Message-ID: <000e01c138b0$bcaae340$0301a8c0@kensportege> Naw, power through the battery pack ensures a clean power source, and (I am sure) simplifies design... There are folks that specialize in restuffing obscure battery packs with similar/better batteries... Since you have the battery pack, rebuilding it should be a snap! Pointers can be found in the backs of ham magazines (Dave M. might also have leads) - if you are stuck, I can find some options for you... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Nicewonger" To: Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 4:01 PM Subject: It's alive!! [was: [geeks] Battery for ThinkPad PS/Note 425C] > Well good news, > > After taking the battery pack apart and disecting it a bit I was able to > charge the pack somewhat and managed to get the ThinkPad Power Series 820 to > wake up!! To find some version of AIX that we have no password for :) (next > hurdle after the batteries thing) > > Unforunately the cells are hosed and I will need to find replacement cells > since the pack is otherwise unobtainuim. > > So the word is, Many TP's require a good battery to power on at all. *dumb idea* > > Mike N > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 8 16:57:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 17:57:44 -0400 Subject: It's alive!! [was: [geeks] Battery for ThinkPad PS/Note 425C] In-Reply-To: <000e01c138b0$bcaae340$0301a8c0@kensportege> References: <15436849680.20010907171639@crosswinds.net> <01090816064101.01764@two-time.twmaster.com> <000e01c138b0$bcaae340$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <01090818010007.01764@two-time.twmaster.com> On Sat, 08 Sep 2001, you wrote: > Naw, power through the battery pack ensures a clean power source, and (I am > sure) simplifies design... > > There are folks that specialize in restuffing obscure battery packs with > similar/better batteries... Since you have the battery pack, rebuilding it > should be a snap! > Finding the correct cells is going to be the bugger. 4/5 A 1800MA NiMH. I build my own packs for my RC planes and boats so rebuilding is easy :) To get the current they need IBM has two banks of 7 cells each to get the 8.4 VDC, 3.6 A out of the pack. Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 8 17:31:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 18:31:43 EDT Subject: [geeks] PPro/Xeon Message-ID: <20010908223836.YSLI557.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >I would LOVE to pick up a 2-way or better PPro box. Those things kick >ass. I really like dual Xeon systems. Much, much better than PPro IMHO - processor pricing is basically linear (200mhz 256k PPro like $10, 450mhz 512k is $20), they support much cheaper ram, often include stuff like 64bit PCI, some systems have a better upgrade path and have AGP. Systems are a bit more exspensive but a 400mhz Xeon(dual capable) with 1gb ram, 1394 and SCSI is a steal at $400 shipped IMHO. I've got two Xeon systems and love them. Mike Forwarded to geeks. From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 01:18:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Andy Pfiffer) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 23:18:34 -0700 Subject: [geeks] PCB layout software? References: <20010908232903.L12964@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <002701c138f7$4479e000$6a01a8c0@bvrtn1.or.home.com> http://www.pcbexpress.com/ I've never tried, but other have. Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: Reagen B. Ward To: Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:29 PM Subject: [geeks] PCB layout software? > I'm looking for some reasonable pcb artwork software for either X or > MacOS. Free, of course. ;) > > Reagen > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 12:00:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 13:00:58 EDT Subject: [geeks] Re: PCB layout software? Message-ID: <20010909170844.OBSV557.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >I'm looking for some reasonable pcb artwork software for either X or >MacOS. Free, of course. ;) Try pcb. It's decent but I've had issues it's output being funky at times. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 12:59:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 13:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: kernel scalability.... In-Reply-To: <01090521164008.12160@raquel.hmv.net> References: <3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net> <20010905195843.9FA37EA@proven.weird.com> <01090521164008.12160@raquel.hmv.net> Message-ID: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> [[ moving to geeks.... ]] [ On Wednesday, September 5, 2001 at 21:16:40 (+0100), Mike Meredith wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq > > I'm not trying to say that the linux kernel is scalable up to zSystem > size, but I believe one of the reasons for running thousands of linux > partitions under VM is to replace thousands of rack mounted linux boxes > in a hosting environment. Yes, that's "one" of the reasons.... > Using it as "proof" that linux doesn't scale > is slightly bogus. Well, it won't -- take the reasons as you will, but you'll likely never see any decent sized 390 or similar architecture machine running a linux kernel on the bare hardware and handling anywhere near the load that you can push through the same machine with multiple VM partitions. The real reason why people run thousands of linux partitions under VM is because they can and because doing so is much less expensive than any other option. The physical and operational requirements necessary to handle the same load with linux kernels running on bare metal of any kind would be much larger and thus much more expensive. I.e. that does definitely mean that the linux kernel cannot, alone, scale into the upper stratosphere of large computer systems. Personally of course if I were to get into a situation where I would be buying or leasing such a solution from IBM I'd find it easy to also pay them the additional price necessary to port NetBSD to run under VM. (though that may already be done before I ever have such a need! ;-) Of course *BSD won't scale all that well either, at least not without a lot of tweaking and hacking. :-) The likes of IBM and Amdahl have spent many tens of man-years making Unix scale even half as well as VM on machines with that kind of architecture, and yet still they recommend running it under VM. A more interesting comparison of linux scalability would be to compare it to NetBSD, which runs VERY WELL on everything from the smallest of ARM or sh3 systems up to the largest DEC Alpha servers, not to mention on a lot of older hardware. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 13:05:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 14:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Checkers In-Reply-To: <000701c135a9$666ab960$83cab1c8@jrr> References: <000701c135a9$666ab960$83cab1c8@jrr> Message-ID: <20010909180550.5B808112@proven.weird.com> [ On Tuesday, September 4, 2001 at 22:23:40 (-0300), jrr wrote: ] > Subject: [geeks] Checkers > > I'm searching for the game Checkers from book 101 computer basic games. > Do you have the listing ? I wrote a wicked game of checkers for Commodore 64 BASIC once upon a time. (It could tie me most times, and I can tie most casual players almost all of the time.) I hope I still have the listing somewhere, but I've no idea which box buried in the back of the garage it might be in. It's on floppy somewhere, and even if I don't have a copy left anywhere there's got to be some Commodore 64 collector somewhere with a copy! ;-) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 15:23:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 21:23:55 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Re: kernel scalability.... In-Reply-To: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com>; from woods@weird.com on Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 01:59:03PM -0400 References: <3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net> <20010905195843.9FA37EA@proven.weird.com> <01090521164008.12160@raquel.hmv.net> <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010909212353.A8624@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 01:59:03PM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote: > take the reasons as you will, but you'll likely never > see any decent sized 390 or similar architecture machine running a linux > kernel on the bare hardware and handling anywhere near the load 'Load' defined how? If it's in terms of raw I/O then sure, VM or OS390 would win every time. But it would be easy to concoct an equally pointless benchmark which it would lose every time. > that you can push through the same machine with multiple VM partitions. That argument is also bogus. You are comparing OSes designed for completely different tasks and which target completely different architectures*. The fact that Linux has been ported to the 390 should not be taken to imply that it is optimised for it. I don't think anyone makes that claim. > The real reason why people run thousands of linux partitions under VM is > because they can Really? I thought that the few commercial installations did it because it gave them a competitive advantage. Are you trying to say that they spent those millions on hardware just so they could *play* with it? > and because doing so is much less expensive than any > other option. Ahhh, so they're actually doing it because it's the right tool for the job. Presumably, for those particular tasks, OS390 or VM can't handle the load - either that or it's so much of a bitch to use that the point is moot anyway. I suspect a bit of both. This second reason, I am quite sure, is far more important than the first. > The physical and operational requirements necessary to > handle the same load with linux kernels running on bare metal of any > kind would be much larger and thus much more expensive. I.e. that does > definitely mean that the linux kernel cannot, alone, scale into the > upper stratosphere of large computer systems. Can't argue with you there, but see below ... > Personally of course if I were to get into a situation where I would be > buying or leasing such a solution from IBM I'd find it easy to also pay > them the additional price necessary to port NetBSD to run under VM. > > Of course *BSD won't scale all that well either, at least not without a > lot of tweaking and hacking. :-) The amount of tweaking and hacking would, IMO, be so large that it would be just as practical to do the same work to the Linux kernel. > The likes of IBM and Amdahl have spent many tens of man-years making > Unix scale even half as well as VM on machines with that kind of > architecture, and yet still they recommend running it under VM. So perhaps the flaw is not with Linux, but with the fundamental concepts underlying any Unix-a-like. Seems pretty reasonable to me, I wouldn't expect a mini- or micro-computer OS like a Unix to perform well when ported to either the very high end (eg a 390) or to the very low end (eg a Palm). And so I'm not at all surprised when both ports run into serious problems of scalability and usability. However, I wouldn't dream of arguing that a failure to run well in such a Unix-hostile environment is a failure of Unix. s/Unix/Linux/g as well. > A more interesting comparison of linux scalability would be to compare > it to NetBSD which runs VERY WELL on everything from the smallest of > ARM or sh3 systems up to the largest DEC Alpha servers, not to mention > on a lot of older hardware. I wouldn't say it's a particularly interesting comparison to make really. Performance and scalability of the OS are not the be-all and end-all of deciding what to use. Most of the bottlenecks I have come across are in applications, not in OSes. * - and I don't just mean 'architecture' in the sense of x86, sparc and arm being different architectures. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david This is nice. Any idea what body-part it is? From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 17:50:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Linc Fessenden) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 18:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... In-Reply-To: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: > Well, it won't -- take the reasons as you will, but you'll likely never > see any decent sized 390 or similar architecture machine running a linux > kernel on the bare hardware and handling anywhere near the load that you > can push through the same machine with multiple VM partitions. > > The real reason why people run thousands of linux partitions under VM is > because they can and because doing so is much less expensive than any > other option. The physical and operational requirements necessary to > handle the same load with linux kernels running on bare metal of any > kind would be much larger and thus much more expensive. I.e. that does > definitely mean that the linux kernel cannot, alone, scale into the > upper stratosphere of large computer systems. That is a load of crap. If you don't like Linux, don't run it, but let's not push opinions here. You want the truth about what Linux is capable of, then you do the homework and contact IBM, Compaq, and HP and ask. They are giving Linux their full support and cooperation and for some very viable, well thought out and good reasons. It's a good OS that has come a long way in an extremely short time frame. It has considerable promise. Now if you really want to do some NetBSD work on those systems, that would be quite cool as well! NetBSD is an awsome OS and deserves it's own attention. -Linc. From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 18:21:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 18:21:50 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Careers Message-ID: <20010909182150.N26352@mrbill.net> Found this on the net: PURPOSE OF YOUR CAREER Astronaut: Advancing scientific knowledge for the good of humanity. Fireman: Saving lives and property. Sysadmin: Assuring uninterrupted access to alt.binaries.erotica.sheep. ADVICE YOU'LL GIVE KIDS WHO WANT TO FOLLOW IN YOUR FOOTSTEPS Astronaut: "Study science and math and eat your vegetables." Fireman: "Study science and math and eat your vegetables." Sysadmin: "DON'T DO IT! RUN AWAY!" QUESTION YOU'LL BE MOST TIRED OF ANSWERING Astronaut: "Where do you go to the bathroom?" Fireman: "Do you really slide down a pole when the alarm goes off?" Sysadmin: "Can't you do anything about all this spam I've been getting?" WILL YOU EVER BE ON TV? Astronaut: Yes! Fireman: Occasionally. Sysadmin: Only MSNBC's "The Site," which doesn't technically count as TV. WILL YOUR JOB EVER GET ANY EASIER? Astronaut: As computers get more and more advanced and able to control more of the functions of the space vehicle, yes. Fireman: As more and more people install smoke detectors in their homes, yes. Sysadmin: As more and more clueless newbies discover the Internet, absolutely not. INSPIRING MOVIE ABOUT YOUR PROFESSION Astronaut: "The Right Stuff" Fireman: "Backdraft" Sysadmin: Uh... gee, I'm really drawing a blank here... "Wargames"? YOUR WORK HOURS Astronaut: Fairly long days during the mission, but lots and lots of time between missions to relax. Fireman: 24-hour shifts, but 48 hours between shifts to relax. Sysadmin: Not really "work hours" or even "work days"... more like "work millenia." FRINGE BENEFITS OF YOUR JOB Astronaut: Lots of good stories to tell to impress members of the opposite sex. Fireman: Lots of good stories to tell to impress members of the opposite sex. Sysadmin: You get ALL of the jokes in "Dilbert." NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT YOUR PROFESSION Astronaut: A few, from people who think the government should be spending its money in different ways. Fireman: A few, from people who think you take too long to arrive following a 911 call. Sysadmin: You'll have to learn what comes after "trillion" to be able to count them all. YOUR VEHICLE Astronaut: Multimillion-dollar space vehicle atop multimillion-dollar rocket. Fireman: Big red truck with flashing lights and siren. Sysadmin: 1978 AMC Gremlin. In conclusion, if the sysadmin option has seemed the most appealing in even one of these categories, you should become a sysadmin. -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 18:35:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 00:35:54 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Careers In-Reply-To: <20010909182150.N26352@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 06:21:50PM -0500 References: <20010909182150.N26352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010910003553.A10523@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Bill's post made me remember what a friend has in his bio on his website: $name's career has been a verb, not a noun -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david If a job's worth doing, it's worth dieing for From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 19:46:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 20:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... In-Reply-To: References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> [ On Sunday, September 9, 2001 at 18:50:30 (-0400), Linc Fessenden wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... > > That is a load of crap. If you don't like Linux, don't run it, but let's > not push opinions here. You want the truth about what Linux is capable > of, then you do the homework and contact IBM, Compaq, and HP and > ask. They are giving Linux their full support and cooperation and for > some very viable, well thought out and good reasons. I've read the papers, and I've studied the work done in the past. I've built and operated large unix servers on traditional mini/micro/super-mini architectures. I've been tuning unix and unix-like kernels for nearly 20 years now. I really do know what the hell I'm talking about in this case. > It's a good OS that > has come a long way in an extremely short time frame. It has considerable > promise. I'm not disputing any of that -- I'm telling you that any unix-like operating systems architecture will have one hell of a hard time ever, and I mean EVER, pushing the same throughput through an s390 architecture machine as the same unix-like kernel running as multiple instances under VM. Period. Even SunOS is being bent, streched, pulled, and pried around to try push the E10k systems architecture to its theoretical limits, and by experts smarter than all the rest of us on this list put together. You'll find more and more mainframe-like features creeping into SunOS if the marketplace really does continue to move back towards large datacentre types of environments. There is no direct fit for a unix architecture operating system on top of an s390 architecture machine. IBM's VM has a very significant purpose and place in the scheme of things and you'd be wise to understand it as best you can. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 20:14:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 20:14:12 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... In-Reply-To: <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> On Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 08:46:34PM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote: > I've built and operated large unix servers on traditional > mini/micro/super-mini architectures. I've been tuning unix and > unix-like kernels for nearly 20 years now. > I really do know what the hell I'm talking about in this case. Speaking of which, "informal survey" "What do you do for a living, and whats your "history" ?" Me: Systems admin (approaching 1.5 years now) with a major telecommunications company (a Bell), managing Solaris. HPUX, IRIX, and Tru64 machines. Before this, I had a short stint as the "Computer Guy" for a local engineering firm managing their internal network, and from '95-98 and '99-2000, worked at an ISP of some sort, usually as a systems admin or the head systems admin (UNIX). Prior to '93 was high school, and '93-95 was college. I'll be 27 in november. Dream job: Working for Sun in some capacity, or winning the lottery and just working at a local ISP or somesuch just to have something to do (I'm a workaholic, and have had a fulltime or near-fulltime job continuously since I was 15..) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 20:22:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 21:22:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <000701c13997$07f18c00$0301a8c0@kensportege> See below... (brief, promise ;^) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg A. Woods" To: "Sun Geeks List" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 8:46 PM Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... > There is no direct fit for a unix architecture operating system on top > of an s390 architecture machine. IBM's VM has a very significant > purpose and place in the scheme of things and you'd be wise to > understand it as best you can. Exactly. Spot on, as some of our friends across the pond would say... It is a different mindset working on mainframes, borne from a different architecture and design philosophy. Everything is different - tha machine is so fast, that the only useful way of sharing the CPU is when you are blocked, waiting for I/O operations to occur, not on an arbitrary time slice representing your "share" of the available CPU time... Ken _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 20:44:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 18:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... In-Reply-To: <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > Speaking of which, "informal survey" > > "What do you do for a living, and whats your "history" ?" Me: Senior Technical Engineer for Sun Microsystems, as part of the CPRE-HSG (Highend Server Group). My job is to debug problems with E10K's that cannot be solved in the field. We also participate in new product development. I've been with Sun a little over a year. Before that, I've held various jobs, from radio DJ to Tech Writer (My degree is in tech writing), to Manager of Systems/Operations at the National Center for Genome Resources (my last stint, where I bought an E10K...) I've been doing systems admin on UNIX (starting with SunOS 3) since the mid-80's. In addition to SunOS/Solaris, I've worked VMS, RSX-11M+, Digital UNIX, AIX, HP-UX, and a few other mutated and twisted things. (It goes w/o saying that I've used Linux, [Open/Net]BSD, and others freebies.) I'm also a Mac addict, and have been since 1984. I tend to collect hardware, and have a pretty good collection of Sun and Mac equipment. My other interest is Basenji rescue, and I've had my own domain (basenji.com) since 1994. I'm 33, married (to Chandra), and have two Basenjis, Keegan and Spritzer. I'm currently holed up in the San Diego area. -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 20:50:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 21:50:22 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Wearables Message-ID: I recently rescued a single board computer. I'm wondering if anybody has any experience with embedded intel style hardware (pc/104) and knows where to get stuff for it. I'm looking for a some solid state storage and a pc/104 pcmcia bay and perhaps a pc/104 sound board. I know the thing works, I've put a celeron and some ram in it and I'm building a plastic case for it. So I'm also looking for ideas on wearable interfaces ( this thing has onboard VGA and ps/2 kb/mouse ports as well as two serial ports) to use on it. If anybody has some of this stuff they don't want of course I'm willing to buy if the price is right. daniel From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 20:53:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 21:53:01 EDT Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... Message-ID: <01350215300.dave.12908@cca.org> woods at weird.com writes: >I'm not disputing any of that -- I'm telling you that any unix-like >operating systems architecture will have one hell of a hard time ever, >and I mean EVER, pushing the same throughput through an s390 >architecture machine as the same unix-like kernel running as multiple >instances under VM. Period. I would expect any unix[-ish] system to do relatively badly on a mainframe, because unix software doesn't know about channel programs, etc. However - why does running multiple unix instances under VM help? Is this a context-switch-to-hide-latency type effect, like barel processors use? -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- --------- "I prefer the rediculous to the sublime." - James Chance --------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 21:05:29 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 22:05:29 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3B9C1FE9.F44BA294@avoidant.org> Bill Bradford wrote: > Speaking of which, "informal survey" > > "What do you do for a living, and whats your "history" ?" Me: Linux sys admin for a web host hosting company (massive server farm at the juncture of three big fat netfeeds) for the past year and a half and "Internet Technology /Security Consultant" for a systems integrator, as well as running a small ASP providing homegrown workflow and time tracking software. And counting backwards... 4-year stint as AIX / OS/2 admin for a financial firm, with some Solaris on the side. A year with an Intel VAR and script monkey for a local UNIX (DEC) consultant. General contractor, Kitchens and bathrooms and the like. Cook in a waterside dive. Manager of a rather popular bar /resaurant. CAD goon at JPL concurrent with Grad school. Plasma Physics Lab research assistant concurrent with undergrad. Combat engineer, which takes us back to '84, when I graduated H.S. Married w/ a matched set of kids, a cocker spaniel and a white boxer. ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 21:22:24 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 22:22:24 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... References: <01350215300.dave.12908@cca.org> Message-ID: <000501c1399f$6e1f1a80$0301a8c0@kensportege> Dave, I suspect that the CPU is *so fast* that if the mainframe were to run a single thread, the relatively slow I/O would really bog down the process (as measured in *clock time*, not CPU time). In my (casual) experience, mainframes have an incredible ability to absorb more tasks without effecting clock time for a given task too much, much like a bus - it doesn't take longer to move 50 people from here to there than if there were only one person in the bus... As i understand it, the *nix kernel does one thing at a time, and task switches based on time slices - in such an implementation of a "classic" *nix kernel on a mainframe, you would spend most of your time waiting for I/O devices. But this is a *real* simplification, but I think it holds true as details are added/model refined to closer map the actual tasks involved... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 9:53 PM Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... > However - why does running multiple unix instances under VM help? > > Is this a context-switch-to-hide-latency type effect, like barel > processors use? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 21:23:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 22:23:36 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Wearables References: Message-ID: <001101c1399f$9975ebf0$0501000a@laboffice> Sweet rescue! PGA PC-104 based machines cost quite a bit new. Check out the Twiddler 2 and the PIC-Key keyboard, a full sized PS-2 mouse and keyboard are inpractical for wearables. For a monitor, the M-1 display is the best value at present (IMHO), it is a 320x240 monocular style B&W display, at present they go for around 450-500$ new. Sony camcorder batteries are the current popular battery for wearables, as they are light and carry quite a bit of juice. I think thats pretty much it, good luck, the wear-hard mailing list seems to be kind of the heart of the wearable community, youmight wish to check it out. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Big Endian" To: Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 9:50 PM Subject: [geeks] Wearables > I recently rescued a single board computer. I'm wondering if anybody > has any experience with embedded intel style hardware (pc/104) and > knows where to get stuff for it. I'm looking for a some solid state > storage and a pc/104 pcmcia bay and perhaps a pc/104 sound board. I > know the thing works, I've put a celeron and some ram in it and I'm > building a plastic case for it. So I'm also looking for ideas on > wearable interfaces ( this thing has onboard VGA and ps/2 kb/mouse > ports as well as two serial ports) to use on it. If anybody has > some of this stuff they don't want of course I'm willing to buy if > the price is right. > > daniel > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 21:42:35 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 22:42:35 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <011101c139a2$4308a610$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > Speaking of which, "informal survey" > > "What do you do for a living, and whats your "history" ?" > Current: Director of Systems for Bungo.com. Going on 3 months now. Thankfully, with the advent of my shiny new $PHB title, my hair didn't get any sharper ;-) Primarily responsible for several farms of Linux servers, firewalls, and some NAS appliances. Previous: Sysadmin for DefendNet (now part of Guardent), Field Consultant for Linc Systems, Consulting Engineer for CIBER Network services, Customer Supprt manager for International Trans*Script, Store Manager (ie. whipping boy) for Cumberland Farms, Personal Trainer for Bally's Health Clubs, myriad of manual labor jobs. Never finished college, almost got a degree in Historic Preservation. Dream Job: The one I have now :) I'd also like to have a great idea (the next Killer Application or Killer Appliance) and get people more experienced in marketing and business admin to make it a financial success. I would be more than happy to cruise the countryside on the dorsal end of motorcycle with my wife and kids, while other people make me filthy rich. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 21:53:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 22:53:13 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... In-Reply-To: <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 08:14:12PM -0500 References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010909225312.B2082@wintermute.arkham.ws> > Speaking of which, "informal survey" > "What do you do for a living, and whats your "history" ?" currently: unemployed past: Senior Solaris Admin for Agere for two months before getting laid off, dealt mostly with NFS home directory servers and a compute farm made up of a silly number of SunBlade 1000 machines (the US-III CPU based 480R machines weren't available yet and Agere/Lucent couldn't wait) as well as several 2TB NetApp F880 NAS boxes. Senior Solaris Admin for Mack Trucks for about 6 months before being laid off, was one of a small team of admins that kept all the sun gear running. about 40 sun boxes ranginf in size from ultra2 to UE4500 as well as some resiliance boxes that ran the raptor filewall stuff. great job. got to use a mainframe, got to play with VMS. very laid back. very pissed off about getting let go since it was 5 minutes from home. it was an ass kicking job too. oh well. one of two admins for half.com where i dealt with linux based web server running ColdFusion (yuck) and of course the big sexy sun hardware. i'm gonna keep this one short lest it degrade into a rant about the morons i worked for. left this job to work at mack. 2 years in brasil, teaching english of all things. junior solaris admin/AT&T UNIX admin for Lucent taking care of boxes that ran inhouse data gathering software to gather usage information off of telephone switches for statistical and planning reasons. two products. one ran on the AT&T 3b2 the other ran on solaris/sparc (sparc20s, this was when they still cost a boatload of cash, right before the ultras were released) prior to that i worked many odd jobs from landscaping to cooking to manual slave labor to electrical to plumbing, to, well, you name it, i've probably done it. recently divorced, one daughter (turns 5 in november) and no real plans. dream job: at this point, i'm not being to picky. my dream job would be A JOB. cheers, -brian From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 22:09:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 22:09:08 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I guess our paranoia is justified... Message-ID: <144227226852.20010909220908@crosswinds.net> I guess our paranoia about making totally self-destructing computer systems is more than a little justified by new laws being proposed: http://www.politechbot.com/docs/hollings.090701.html http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,46655,00.html I don't think it'll pass as it is but I can believe it will be re-written and passed. I used to think all those paranoid people were just overdoing things. Now I'm not so sure. :-( (Yeah, I know - look in the mirror.) Y'know, this is even going to affect certification in the tech business. People who aren't certified are probably not going to be able to get jobs as easily because they would be more likely to do something "unsecure" with the technology. MCIPP - Microsoft Certified IP Professional. IP Property Security 101 - not a class I really want to have to take. Sorry if I'm ranting/droning but things like this make me seriously question moving my family out of this country. The question that keeps stopping me is "Where would this be different?". Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 22:50:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 23:50:47 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I guess our paranoia is justified... References: <144227226852.20010909220908@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <014701c139ab$c9e58e60$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Does this mean that all users of computers everywhere will be forced by the government to upgrade hardware/software/both just to be in compliance? *THAT* sounds felony bad to me. Since when is this a Good Thing? I better get rich soon - I'll have to stop using computers altogether. Kurt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hebel" To: "Geeks at Sunhelp. Org" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 11:09 PM Subject: [geeks] I guess our paranoia is justified... > I guess our paranoia about making totally self-destructing computer > systems is more than a little justified by new laws being proposed: > > http://www.politechbot.com/docs/hollings.090701.html > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,46655,00.html > > I don't think it'll pass as it is but I can believe it will be re-written and > passed. > > I used to think all those paranoid people were just overdoing things. > Now I'm not so sure. :-( (Yeah, I know - look in the mirror.) > > Y'know, this is even going to affect certification in the tech > business. People who aren't certified are probably not going to be > able to get jobs as easily because they would be more likely to do > something "unsecure" with the technology. MCIPP - Microsoft Certified > IP Professional. > > IP Property Security 101 - not a class I really want to have to take. > > Sorry if I'm ranting/droning but things like this make me seriously question > moving my family out of this country. The question that keeps > stopping me is "Where would this be different?". > > Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net > > http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html > > http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 23:12:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 23:12:08 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues Message-ID: <20010909231208.F26352@mrbill.net> Anybody here an attorney, or know one who is familiar with Internet issues and the law? For the past couple of years, a certain individual has been harassing me. Spamming posts on forums on my web sites, subscribing me to 200-300 mailing lists at a time, sending false Yahoo! greeting cards in my name to other people, things like that. He finally "graduated" to creating a web site filled full of pictures of myself and friends (most taken from my web site(s) without my permission) that makes light of the fact that I happen to be a large individual. Despite repeated requests, this person laughs at me and refuses to take down the images (that are copyrighted by me). Due to this person, I've had to remove most all pictures from any of my web sites, and not put much personal information up - for fear of him somenow getting ahold of any more pictures and adding them to the "collection" on this web page. This has gotten to the point where Amy will not allow ANY pictures of her to be on a public web server, and needless to say, our wedding pictures as well. Why is he doing it? Who knows. Apparently he just doesent like me and/or likes my reactions to the shit he pulls. Anyway, I've had enough. Tonight he unveiled "v2.0" of this web site, and its time that I call in the legal eagles, if such a thing is possible. I dont think he should have the right to take images from my web page(s) and use them in turn to make fun of me, or put false information on the page. Suggestions? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 23:25:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 00:25:54 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues In-Reply-To: <20010909231208.F26352@mrbill.net> References: <20010909231208.F26352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <0109100027050B.09143@two-time.twmaster.com> Lawyer shmawyer. Let's go on a large geek ass kickin mission. Mike N BTW that dude needs his ass kicked in a lrage way. From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 23:27:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 00:27:36 -0400 Subject: [geeks] WTB: Adaptec 2940 UW Message-ID: <0109100028350C.09143@two-time.twmaster.com> Hiya geeks! Anybody got a used 2940 UW (for PeeCee) they ain't needin? -Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 23:35:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 23:35:04 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues In-Reply-To: <0109100027050B.09143@two-time.twmaster.com> References: <20010909231208.F26352@mrbill.net> <0109100027050B.09143@two-time.twmaster.com> Message-ID: <20010909233504.H26352@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 12:25:54AM -0400, Mike Nicewonger wrote: > Lawyer shmawyer. > Let's go on a large geek ass kickin mission. > BTW that dude needs his ass kicked in a lrage way. He's not worth that much effort. You've seen the site; I showed it to you and Dave McG when I visited.... 8-( At one point, it wwas funny, and I ignored it. Then, he's just gotten hurtful and vindictive since then. hell, the guy sent me a 1.7L bottle of Jim Beam packed in a box full of twinkies and ho-hos for christmas last year. At one point he's friendly, and the next he's just doing what he can to be a bastard. In any case, i want the site gone. 8-( bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 23:36:24 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 00:36:24 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues In-Reply-To: <20010909233504.H26352@mrbill.net> References: <20010909231208.F26352@mrbill.net> <0109100027050B.09143@two-time.twmaster.com> <20010909233504.H26352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <0109100038220E.09143@two-time.twmaster.com> > hell, the guy sent me a 1.7L bottle of Jim Beam packed > in a box full of twinkies and ho-hos for christmas last > year. Jim Beam Big thumbs up! Junk food semi thumbs down! :) (Editor's note: The author of this email is engaged in a bunch of glasses of Bullit Bourbon presently) > > In any case, i want the site gone. 8-( I understand. What a jerk. Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 9 23:51:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 00:51:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues In-Reply-To: <20010909231208.F26352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: > Anyway, I've had enough. Tonight he unveiled "v2.0" of this > web site, and its time that I call in the legal eagles, if > such a thing is possible. I dont think he should have the > right to take images from my web page(s) and use them in turn > to make fun of me, or put false information on the page. Slap him with some public slander charges? From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 01:08:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 23:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] I guess our paranoia is justified... In-Reply-To: <144227226852.20010909220908@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Sep 2001, Mike Hebel wrote: > I guess our paranoia about making totally self-destructing computer > systems is more than a little justified by new laws being proposed: > > http://www.politechbot.com/docs/hollings.090701.html > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,46655,00.html Gee, Hollings at it again, I see... Man, I hope we survive the next 3.5 years or so, perhaps the idiotic industry bootlicking conservative dorks will all self-destruct. I love how much people like Hollings are "In touch with the people." Vote yes for term limits. :-) -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 01:30:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 02:30:59 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: kernel scalability.... In-Reply-To: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> References: <3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net> <20010905195843.9FA37EA@proven.weird.com> <01090521164008.12160@raquel.hmv.net> <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010910023059.A11867@cs.millersville.edu> On Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 01:59:03PM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote: > The real reason why people run thousands of linux partitions under VM is > because they can and because doing so is much less expensive than any > other option. The physical and operational requirements necessary to > handle the same load with linux kernels running on bare metal of any > kind would be much larger and thus much more expensive. I.e. that does > definitely mean that the linux kernel cannot, alone, scale into the > upper stratosphere of large computer systems. Even if linux on s/390 bare metal could do the same performance wise as it on VM, linux still wouldn't be able to partition the system in any meaningfull way, which to me is the whole point of a mainframe. I haven't heard of any projects to add such partitioning to linux, except that new versions of VMWare can be used to add some partitioning. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 03:05:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Geoff Reed) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 01:05:01 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues In-Reply-To: References: <20010909231208.F26352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010910010257.02523b30@mail.zipcon.net> Only thing I can think of would be to contact his hosting company and inform them that he is hosting stolen copyright images of yours on his site, that should be enough to get his account nuked and the site taken down. if he is hosting on his own machine, contact his upstream provider and bug them about it. if they refuse to take action they can be making themselves party to the copyright infringement. wave the DMCA in their faces :) At 12:51 AM 9/10/01 -0400, you wrote: > > Anyway, I've had enough. Tonight he unveiled "v2.0" of this > > web site, and its time that I call in the legal eagles, if > > such a thing is possible. I dont think he should have the > > right to take images from my web page(s) and use them in turn > > to make fun of me, or put false information on the page. > >Slap him with some public slander charges? > > >_______________________________________________ >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 03:14:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 03:14:50 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010910010257.02523b30@mail.zipcon.net> References: <20010909231208.F26352@mrbill.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20010910010257.02523b30@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20010910031450.G19326@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 01:05:01AM -0700, Geoff Reed wrote: > Only thing I can think of would be to contact his hosting company and > inform them that he is hosting stolen copyright images of yours on his > site, that should be enough to get his account nuked and the site taken > down. if he is hosting on his own machine, contact his upstream provider > and bug them about it. if they refuse to take action they can be making > themselves party to the copyright infringement. wave the DMCA in their > faces :) he is his hosting company, and as far as I know its hosted on his DSL at home. Tried that already... As it is, I left IRC for good tonight, gave up a bunch of good friends, due to the shit this guy is pulling (his girlfriend hangs out on the channel that a bunch of us congregate on). Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 04:32:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:32:08 +0100 Subject: [geeks] informal survey In-Reply-To: <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 08:14:12PM -0500 References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010910103207.B14392@plough.barnyard.co.uk> On Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 08:14:12PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > Speaking of which, "informal survey" > > "What do you do for a living, and whats your "history" ?" Right now, I'm a project manager for BBC Internet Services, working with the developers. The group is responsible for development of large-scale and/or 'business critical' online applications, both as part of www.bbc.co.uk and other internal stuff. Of course, even though the ops guys don't fall under my remit, I still need to work with them too. Previously, I did a year as a network and database admin trainee with a small consultancy, mainly working for estate agents and a Lloyds of London medical malpractice underwriter; several years as a web developer-cum- sysadmin (using NT, SQL Server, Java and Cold Fusion) for publishing companies; a year or so as a developer for a small business ISP, where I switched to Unixy systems and learnt lots of perl (which is odd - they took me on for my NT and Java skills); then head of technology for the UK office of a large web agency, where I did some sysadmin, some dev, and got into security when they set up a specialist security team; when they dot-bombed, I did six months as a developer and security person at another ISP, doing broadband via satellite, which also went down the toilet despite having a working product, making a profit on each installation, and having a full order book - it failed because we needed to raise finance to fund ramping up production of the hardware so we could satisfy those orders. Stupid fscking VCs. I was at first a bit wary of getting into project management, as I didn't want to become non-technical and I've never done it before. But I still get to be a techie, just concentrating more on analysis and design than on banging out the code. And unlike many other PMs, I have my colleagues' respect because I know what I'm talking about. I still write code, I just don't do it at work, so all my coding is on projects that *I* choose, and it's a lot more enjoyable. I'm really happy here. They're a great bunch of people with an absolute minimum of pointy hair. We work up to a standard as opposed to down to a budget. It feels good to be working in a respected public service instead of just for greedy uncaring shareholders. And, because part of my role is to advise 'customers' on what they can and can't (and should and shouldn't) do, I get to have real influence on the shape of the finished product. I took a pay cut of nearly 20% to get this job. OK, admittedly I was unemployed at the time, but I did get offered more elsewhere. I'm not sure what my dream job would be, but ... Only possible in my dreams: tour guide on Olympus Mons; Only if I inherit millions from some rich relative I don't know I have*: fund and direct a lab where talented people can work on interesting free-as-in-speech computery projects, whilst drawing a salary which is competitive with industry, and where the job is reasonably secure; I have *no* clue what sort of vaguely attainable job I'd lust over the most. * - I don't do the lottery. Because I am numerate. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Some people, when confronted with a problem, think ``I know, I'll use regular expressions.'' Now they have two problems. -- jwz From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 04:36:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:36:22 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010910010257.02523b30@mail.zipcon.net>; from geoffr@zipcon.net on Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 01:05:01AM -0700 References: <20010909231208.F26352@mrbill.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20010910010257.02523b30@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20010910103622.C14392@plough.barnyard.co.uk> On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 01:05:01AM -0700, Geoff Reed wrote: > Only thing I can think of would be to contact his hosting company and > inform them that he is hosting stolen copyright images of yours on his > site, that should be enough to get his account nuked and the site taken > down. I would rather hope that *isn't* enough to get him taken down. Otherwise anyone could have their account nuked on a mere accusation. Certainly if I were the service provider, you'd need to do more than just make an accusation. And anyway, if he's really dedicated, just nuking his account won't have any effect, as he'll be back using another within days. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david There is no sigmonster From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 06:06:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 07:06:55 -0400 Subject: Fw: [geeks] 3Com Audrey on sale at tigerdirect.com Message-ID: <007501c139e8$bdda97e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Sorry for the possible repost, but this was stuck in email limbo for three days... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Hansen" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] 3Com Audrey on sale at tigerdirect.com > try http://www.sowbug.com/audrey/ for starters... > > Ken > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Reagen B. Ward" > To: "Ken Hansen" > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:14 AM > Subject: Re: [geeks] 3Com Audrey on sale at tigerdirect.com > > > > Just got mine in. Ever find the hack info? > > > > On Fri, Aug 10, 2001 at 09:46:33PM -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > > > I just ordered two, because if nothing else, I can use one to sync > between > > > two different Palms (Mr. and Mrs.). Cost aprox. $100 incl S/H > > > > > > See > > > > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?sku=m97 > > > 5-9000&SRCCODE=WEBE10807 > > > From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 06:09:21 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 07:09:21 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: kernel scalability.... References: <3B95B959.305FC91A@internet1.net> <20010905195843.9FA37EA@proven.weird.com> <01090521164008.12160@raquel.hmv.net> <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910023059.A11867@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <007901c139e9$0b588b80$0301a8c0@kensportege> Even if you deploy VMWare, it still is all slogging through the one kernel, so the partitoning is not really useful (IMHO) Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua D Boyd" To: Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] Re: kernel scalability.... > Even if linux on s/390 bare metal could do the same performance wise as it > on VM, linux still wouldn't be able to partition the system in any > meaningfull way, which to me is the whole point of a mainframe. > > I haven't heard of any projects to add such partitioning to linux, except > that new versions of VMWare can be used to add some partitioning. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 06:33:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 07:33:50 -0400 Subject: [geeks] informal survey References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> <20010910103207.B14392@plough.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <3B9CA51E.355EBF33@avoidant.org> David Cantrell wrote: > > "What do you do for a living, and whats your "history" ?" > I'm not sure what my dream job would be, but ... I left that out, completely by accident. Attainable dream job would be to drop everything else and focus on the Internet Technology / Security consulting. I'm actually working toward it, and as it grows and pays another bill or two every now and then I scale back on the webmonkey crap (which pays better, but is so-o-o-o tedious). > * - I don't do the lottery. Because I am numerate. I do. I am also numerate, but I bought a ticket once on a whim, and won. It was only 5 numbers out of 6, but it was worth $5300. I decided I'd buy a ticket a week 'till I'd spent the winnings. I'm now 7 years through the 12. I occassionaly win a dollar or two, and twice slightly larger (less than $100 each). I figure it's entirely chance, and people do win, so why should I pass up my opportunity (even if it is 7M:1)? When I do win, the plan is to fund a museum of obsolete technology, and hire Brian Hechinger as the curator. ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 07:06:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:06:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> <20010910103207.B14392@plough.barnyard.co.uk> <3B9CA51E.355EBF33@avoidant.org> Message-ID: <000e01c139f0$fa9e57e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Sambo, Does your 10 year number account for the taxes you paid on your $5.3K winning? BTW, you are paying back your good fortune, $1 at a time back into the gov't. Consider this: You gave them a dollar, they kept $.50 (aprox) for themselves, and put $.50 (again, aprox.) into the pool for winning. So before the drawing occurred, you had given them $.50, or 50% of your investment. Then, lady luck shone on you, and awarded you $5,300 in winnings, for which you probably paid about 40% total in taxes on your winnings, or $2,120. Now the Gov't. has $2,120.50 of your money. Then you embarked on a 10 year refund program, totalling $5,300 (aprox) in total pay-back - this will yield the Gov't. another $2,650 (again, the Gov't. keeps about 50% of every dollar for administration and other purposes, the other 50% goes toward the winnigs pool). So, now the Gov't. has $4,770.50 thanks to you.(90% for them, 10% to you!) (Oh, and if your $5,300 was post-tax winnings, the principles apply, but the numbers get even bigger...) And it is left to you to calculate any additional trivial winnings and their ultimate impact on your states, and your, bottom line. Who is the winner here? Oh, in most states they say the Lottery helps fund programs for senior citizens and/or children - but the dirty little secrets is that the monies go to *existing* programs, and lessen the burden on the average taxpayer (that doesn't play the lottery). So the real beneficiary of the lottery, as their tax burden is lessened (ideally), offset by the lottery proceeds. So, please, keep playing the lottery, but don't think you are going to be the winner - by playing you lose, and I, as a non-player, win. Remember, it is not how much you win, it is how much you keep... That said, I considered getting a ticket in the recent Powerball lottery as it approached $200 Million... Hey, all you need is a $1 and a dream. ;^) Ken (BTW, you *did* claim a deduction of you total investment in non-winning tickets against your winnings right?) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] informal survey > > * - I don't do the lottery. Because I am numerate. > > I do. I am also numerate, but I bought a ticket once on a whim, and won. > It was only 5 numbers out of 6, but it was worth $5300. I decided I'd > buy a ticket a week 'till I'd spent the winnings. I'm now 7 years > through the 12. I occassionaly win a dollar or two, and twice slightly > larger (less than $100 each). _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 07:11:35 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:11:35 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> <20010910103207.B14392@plough.barnyard.co.uk> <3B9CA51E.355EBF33@avoidant.org> <000e01c139f0$fa9e57e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <3B9CADF7.F721050B@avoidant.org> Ken Hansen wrote: > Remember, it is not how much you win, it is how much you keep... Nah, it's the fun of winning. It's just a game 'till I hit the big one. Doesn't even need to be that big, really. I'm numerate, but that doesn't mean I have to do the math for everything. I undertand all the principles you mentioned, but all things considered, I'm throwing away a dollar a week on an admittedly long chance that I'll be able to retire early. Yes, throwing away. I know it, and freely admit that it's OK by me. Besides, the year I won just happened to be one in which I had no reported income other than the lottery winnings, so no taxes! :) And when it's worth $70M, I'll pay the taxes without a complaint. :) ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 07:32:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael S. Schiller) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:32:47 -0400 Subject: [geeks] informal survey References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> <20010910103207.B14392@plough.barnyard.co.uk> <3B9CA51E.355EBF33@avoidant.org> Message-ID: <3B9CB2EF.C2E275D7@agrijag.com> No, the dream job would be getting paid $1,000,000.00 per day to sit at home and play with your computers! Heck, I'd be happy with $1k/day :) -Mike s at avoidant.org wrote: > David Cantrell wrote: > > > > "What do you do for a living, and whats your "history" ?" > > I'm not sure what my dream job would be, but ... > > I left that out, completely by accident. > > Attainable dream job would be to drop everything else and focus on the > Internet Technology / Security consulting. I'm actually working toward > it, and as it grows and pays another bill or two every now and then I > scale back on the webmonkey crap (which pays better, but is so-o-o-o > tedious). > > > * - I don't do the lottery. Because I am numerate. > > I do. I am also numerate, but I bought a ticket once on a whim, and won. > It was only 5 numbers out of 6, but it was worth $5300. I decided I'd > buy a ticket a week 'till I'd spent the winnings. I'm now 7 years > through the 12. I occassionaly win a dollar or two, and twice slightly > larger (less than $100 each). > > I figure it's entirely chance, and people do win, so why should I pass > up my opportunity (even if it is 7M:1)? > > When I do win, the plan is to fund a museum of obsolete technology, and > hire Brian Hechinger as the curator. > > ---sambo > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 07:42:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:42:06 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> <20010910103207.B14392@plough.barnyard.co.uk> <3B9CA51E.355EBF33@avoidant.org> <000e01c139f0$fa9e57e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> <3B9CADF7.F721050B@avoidant.org> Message-ID: <003401c139f6$00d54740$0301a8c0@kensportege> See below... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) > Ken Hansen wrote: > > > Remember, it is not how much you win, it is how much you keep... > > Nah, it's the fun of winning. It's just a game 'till I hit the big one. > Doesn't even need to be that big, really. I'm numerate, but that doesn't > mean I have to do the math for everything. The mantra of nearly all "slot players" - the bread and butter of the Casino industry... > I undertand all the principles you mentioned, but all things considered, > I'm throwing away a dollar a week on an admittedly long chance that I'll > be able to retire early. Yes, throwing away. I know it, and freely admit > that it's OK by me. That's fine -no argument here, and informed choice is fine, and I was just supplying information to help you (and others) make the decison... > Besides, the year I won just happened to be one in which I had no > reported income other than the lottery winnings, so no taxes! :) Hardly an ideal situation for you, but that's nice... > And when it's worth $70M, I'll pay the taxes without a complaint. :) That would be $70M over 20 years, aprox. $35M in one lump sum, then subtract 40-50% taxes, and you are down to about $20M - not complaining, just explaining. A few years ago, I decided that $11M was my stop-working number - once I hit $11 Million "in the bank" (not over-valued tech stock ;^), I stop working and live "La Vita Woz" (live where I like, teach young kids, etc...). Ken _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 09:27:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:27:14 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> <20010910103207.B14392@plough.barnyard.co.uk> <3B9CA51E.355EBF33@avoidant.org> <000e01c139f0$fa9e57e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> <3B9CADF7.F721050B@avoidant.org> <003401c139f6$00d54740$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <3B9CCDC2.30297513@avoidant.org> Ken Hansen wrote: > See below... Below what? ;) > > Nah, it's the fun of winning. > > The mantra of nearly all "slot players" - the bread and butter of the Casino > industry... Yep, and if they had any locally, I might put a dollar in a slot machine every now and again. Maybe. > That's fine -no argument here, and informed choice is fine, and I was just > supplying information to help you (and others) make the decison... Of course. No offense taken, and none intended. > > Besides, the year I won just happened to be one in which I had no > > reported income other than the lottery winnings, so no taxes! :) > > Hardly an ideal situation for you, but that's nice... T'wasn't a bad thing. I had a contract the year before that paid enough that I didn't have to work for a while, so I didn't. I'm no workaholic, I'll take all the time off I can get. :) > That would be $70M over 20 years, aprox. $35M in one lump sum, then subtract > 40-50% taxes, and you are down to about $20M - not complaining, just Yep. Plenty enough to put me on the retirement train. > explaining. A few years ago, I decided that $11M was my stop-working > number - once I hit $11 Million "in the bank" (not over-valued tech stock My number's much lower. When I can invest enough to return $150K/yr, I'm out of the job market. Realistically, that could be as little as $3M, even at very conservative return rates. > ;^), I stop working and live "La Vita Woz" (live where I like, teach young > kids, etc...). Ah, see, I'd live where I do, and teach *my* kids. I don't need a weekend apartment on the Riviera. Jerusalem would be nice... ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 09:40:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 14:40:23 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues In-Reply-To: <20010909231208.F26352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anyway, I've had enough. Tonight he unveiled "v2.0" of this > web site, and its time that I call in the legal eagles, if > such a thing is possible. I dont think he should have the > right to take images from my web page(s) and use them in turn > to make fun of me, or put false information on the page. > > Suggestions? Call in the a.s.r strike force? ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 09:53:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 07:53:20 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues Message-ID: My wife and I have been down this road with a gang of slimeballs that called themselves r33t.org. It was a general Eeleetist hate group that thought anybody less than arian perfect was fodder for their crap. Basically, it takes money and time. All the laws are really written by the big media houses and favor them (with billion$ you too can have your own senator). I can tell you that everything this creep is doing is totally illegal (esp. on a copyright front), and his ISP, while not responsible for this creeps action, is responsible to terminate his access. If he violates the ISP's usage agreement AND the ISP has been informed (by registered mail) the ISP can be held liable. A carefully crafted letter by an experienced attourney (hint, most are just ambulance chasers) can make the ISP poop pineapples. Unfortunately, it takes a 1 or 2 hundred buckoes just to do this much. From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 12:39:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 13:39:08 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> <20010910103207.B14392@plough.barnyard.co.uk> <3B9CA51E.355EBF33@avoidant.org> <000e01c139f0$fa9e57e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> <3B9CADF7.F721050B@avoidant.org> <003401c139f6$00d54740$0301a8c0@kensportege> <3B9CCDC2.30297513@avoidant.org> Message-ID: <01c501c13a1f$81b674a0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > Ah, see, I'd live where I do, and teach *my* kids. I don't need a > weekend apartment on the Riviera. Jerusalem would be nice... > Ah, that's a whole other discussion. A modest farm house in northern Scotland - when I'm there. The rest of the time my family and I would be touring the world by motorcycle(s). No - not practical, but we're talking dreams here. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 13:04:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zimmerman, Jim) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 12:04:00 -0600 Subject: [geeks] audiophiles? Message-ID: <9F2ABADBBA07D311BA2D0008C70718BB0579AF22@DENNTEX003.qwest.net> Sorry for the delay in answering this poll (vacation). Amateur Extra K0JLZ grid DM79lu ---- Jim Zimmerman K0JLZ RHCE Staff IT Systems Engineer Hosting Engineering Unix Product Development 303-226-9937 jim.zimmerman at qwest.com -----Original Message----- From: James Sharp [mailto:jsharp at psychoses.org] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 6:42 PM To: geeks at sunhelp.org Subject: RE: [geeks] audiophiles? > Actually I think it's about time to do another informal poll of the list > members for hams > N5XNS - No Code Tech. _______________________________________________ GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 13:45:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 14:45:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] informal survey In-Reply-To: <3B9CB2EF.C2E275D7@agrijag.com> References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> <20010910103207.B14392@plough.barnyard.co.uk> <3B9CA51E.355EBF33@avoidant.org> <3B9CB2EF.C2E275D7@agrijag.com> Message-ID: <20010910184554.148F8E8@proven.weird.com> [ On Monday, September 10, 2001 at 08:32:47 (-0400), Michael S. Schiller wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] informal survey > > No, the dream job would be getting paid $1,000,000.00 per day to sit at > home and play with your computers! Heck, I'd be happy with $1k/day :) That's my current job -- only problem is the pay isn't for every day! ;-) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 14:59:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 19:59:03 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] I guess our paranoia is justified... In-Reply-To: <014701c139ab$c9e58e60$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Does this mean that all users of computers everywhere will be forced by the > government to upgrade hardware/software/both just to be in compliance? > *THAT* sounds felony bad to me. Since when is this a Good Thing? Looks like 1984 is late. Oh look, I've got a nametag. Why does it say "Winston"? ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 15:03:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 13:03:36 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Windows error mesage haiku Message-ID: This is making the rounds of email circles, but its so funnny I thought I'd share it. In Japan, they have replaced the impersonal and unhelpful Microsoft error messages with Haiku poetry messages. Haiku poetry has strict construction rules. Each poem has only three lines, 17 syllables: five syllables in the first line, seven in the second, five in the third. Haiku is used to communicate a timeless message often Achieving a wistful, yearning and powerful insight through extreme brevity -- the very essence of Zen: Your file was so big. It might be very useful. But now it is gone. The Website you seek Cannot be located, but Countless more exist. Chaos reigns within. Reflect, repent, and reboot. Order shall return. Program aborting: Close all that you have worked on. You ask far too much. Windows NT crashed. I am the Blue Screen of Death. No one hears your screams. Yesterday it worked. Today it is not working. Windows is like that. First snow, then silence. This thousand-dollar screen dies So beautifully. With searching comes loss And the presence of absence: 'My Novel' not found. The Tao that is seen Is not the true Tao-until You bring fresh toner. Stay the patient course. Of little worth is your ire. The network is down. A crash reduces Your expensive computer To a simple stone. Three things are certain: Death, taxes and lost data. Guess which has occurred. You step in the stream, But the water has moved on. This page is not here. Out of memory. We wish to hold the whole sky, But we never will. Having been erased, The document you're seeking Must now be retyped. Serious error. All shortcuts have disappeared. Screen. Mind. Both are blank. From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 15:31:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 16:31:53 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: Geek Guilds In-Reply-To: <00fd01c13a33$5c26bbf0$3800a8c0@diversifiedllc.com> References: <200109060254.WAA18461@vern.bogon.nul><00e701c13a09$5320f4f0$3800a8c0@dive rsifiedllc.com> <175274478320.20010910111632@crosswinds.net> <00fd01c13a33$5c26bbf0$3800a8c0@diversifiedllc.com> Message-ID: >Okay, I'll offer to pay the first 6 months Dues with Bandwidth. >I have an Ultra we can set it up on. Any Intrest? > >George I'm game, I also have bandwidth and server power to spare (MANY Thanks to Christoff and Dave McGuire) and most importantly, an appropriate domain (3geeks.org) I'm not even sure what the 3 stands for now ( it used to represent me and two other people who were going to room together but that fell through). George, are you near the home base of your ISP? If so you're in my area, contact me off list and we can work something out in terms of hosting/designing/building stuff. daniel From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 15:45:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 16:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: Geek Guilds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > home base of your ISP? If so you're in my area, contact me off list > and we can work something out in terms of hosting/designing/building > stuff. Count me in for it too. From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 15:49:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Wes) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 14:49:11 -0600 Subject: [geeks] Multi-Cast Errors on Solaris 7 Message-ID: <002f01c13a3a$10b81c20$3628020a@Sentoev> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C13A07.C0F8D6C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey, I've got a U30 with Solaris 7 setup. It's a fresh install, but when I = boot to the harddisk, it recognizes it's self fine and initializes the = ethernet interface great, but when it comes up setting up the actual = tcp/ip information, it give me messages about setting up multicast and = making it's self as the default gateway. It won't boot into Solaris = totally. How can I get around this. Any help is MUCH appreciated, Reguards, Wes ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C13A07.C0F8D6C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey,
 
I've got a U30 with Solaris 7 setup. = It's a fresh=20 install, but when I boot to the harddisk, it recognizes it's self fine = and=20 initializes the ethernet interface great, but when it comes up setting = up the=20 actual tcp/ip information, it give me messages about setting up = multicast and=20 making it's self as the default gateway. It won't boot into Solaris = totally. How=20 can I get around this.
 
Any help is MUCH = appreciated,
 
 
Reguards,
Wes
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C13A07.C0F8D6C0-- From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 16:21:25 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:21:25 -0400 Subject: [geeks] ISPs was - Re: Geek Guilds In-Reply-To: <000f01c13a3c$f63f31f0$3800a8c0@diversifiedllc.com> References: <200109060254.WAA18461@vern.bogon.nul><00e701c13a09$5320f4f0$3800a8c0@dive rsifiedllc.com><175274478320.20010910111632@crosswinds.net><00fd01c13a33$5 c26bbf0$3800a8c0@diversifiedllc.com> <011701c13a38$a308d850$3800a8c0@dive rsifiedllc.com> <000f01c13a3c$f63f31f0$3800a8c0@diversifiedllc.com> Message-ID: >Actually, My ISP is out of WA, (Speakeasy) you're looking at my covertly >thrice-bounced remailed re-mail mail. > GREAT stuff there, I just got them my self. I'm quite satisfied. I love the fact that they do reverse DNS edits for you if you want. Little things like that rule. I used to use the other isp when they first started, they are worth shit now. I'm supprised that as large as speakeasy is now they still do the little things like a small ISP would. daniel From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 16:29:25 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:29:25 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Flying Pigs - OT WIN2K speed In-Reply-To: <026701c13a3f$cd70b1b0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <002101c137a8$08deb110$0501000a@laboffice> <3B996491.5A18695E@gcstech.net> <20010908011034.F26352@mrbill.net> <20010908070504.1047BEA@proven.weird.com> <20010909180332.M26352@mrbill.net> <20010910010231.4DE0DE8@proven.weird.com> <012301c139a4$aa266fb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010910183023.C2EC0E8@proven.weird.com> <20010910151245.A22921@cs.millersville.edu> <026701c13a3f$cd70b1b0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010910172925.B23633@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 05:30:19PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Attempting a moe to Geeks... > > > I bet that many of us could create something superior (though perhaps not > > a "scalable") for small workgroups within a year. A smaller group of us > > (I don't claim to be part of the second group) could probably create > > something superior on all fronts in another few years, with all the > > replications features, etc. > > A group of are already working on it :) > www.bungo.com - unfortunately, the free service is going away in a matter of > days. Costs too much to maintain, and it is frequently abused by folks > distributing pr0n of all things... Bleh to pron abuse. What I really am interested in is the idea of home application servers. Imagine being able to make a groupware package aimed at organizing and running a home, that runs on a dedicated server for a cost of $150 (server included)? The market isn't ready for this. Servers cheap enough to include in such a package aren't yet here (but I feel they are close), and home networking isn't really ubiquitous enough yet. But, I can hack now, and someone can sell it later when the market is a bit closer to being ready. > At any rate - we're making serious progress, and things look good at least > for the short term. We don't sell the software - instead we sell the > service. I don't think we have plans to sell the software yet - but we've > at least recognized the potential. For business purposes, I feel strongly that this is the way to go. Give them the software (you don't have to make it easy for them to use though...) after you sell them the service. They have a fully supported package, but if you go out of business, well the package was GPLed, so they aren't SOL. But, I notice that you didn't say anything about giving them the GPLed software. Oh well. Services are still the way to go even if you don't give them the software. But, I think any sizable company would be follish not to demand it if they really are going to depend on your services. > The services require no specialized client - just a current browser. IE and > Netscape seem to work wel - Mozilla and Konquerer show some issues though. > Our developers are working on the problem... I think that Mozilla support is extremely important, but then I'm not likely to be one of your customers. > > > > The real fun would be integrating it into things like video survailence, > > palm pilots, mapping GPS unit thingies, and all the other day to day > > devices that perhaps could be better automatted if they could just know > > what we intended to do before hand. > > > > Palm Pilot support is scheduled. We started to work on it, then the dev > environment we were using became unavailable (read: went OOB). However, we > recently found some very helpful stuff, and we're going to pick this up > again soon. You probably don't feel that this is ready enough for you to use, but I personally really enjoy using PocketSmalltalk for Palm dev. It is fast and easy. I still haven't been able to find a decent form designer that I can afford though so I find myself doing it by hand. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 16:30:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:30:19 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Flying Pigs - OT WIN2K speed References: <20010907042920.K11039@mrbill.net> <002101c137a8$08deb110$0501000a@laboffice> <3B996491.5A18695E@gcstech.net> <20010908011034.F26352@mrbill.net> <20010908070504.1047BEA@proven.weird.com> <20010909180332.M26352@mrbill.net> <20010910010231.4DE0DE8@proven.weird.com> <012301c139a4$aa266fb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010910183023.C2EC0E8@proven.weird.com> <20010910151245.A22921@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <026701c13a3f$cd70b1b0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Attempting a moe to Geeks... > I bet that many of us could create something superior (though perhaps not > a "scalable") for small workgroups within a year. A smaller group of us > (I don't claim to be part of the second group) could probably create > something superior on all fronts in another few years, with all the > replications features, etc. A group of are already working on it :) www.bungo.com - unfortunately, the free service is going away in a matter of days. Costs too much to maintain, and it is frequently abused by folks distributing pr0n of all things... At any rate - we're making serious progress, and things look good at least for the short term. We don't sell the software - instead we sell the service. I don't think we have plans to sell the software yet - but we've at least recognized the potential. The services require no specialized client - just a current browser. IE and Netscape seem to work wel - Mozilla and Konquerer show some issues though. Our developers are working on the problem... > > The real fun would be integrating it into things like video survailence, > palm pilots, mapping GPS unit thingies, and all the other day to day > devices that perhaps could be better automatted if they could just know > what we intended to do before hand. > Palm Pilot support is scheduled. We started to work on it, then the dev environment we were using became unavailable (read: went OOB). However, we recently found some very helpful stuff, and we're going to pick this up again soon. Kurt PS: moved to geeks.... From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 17:00:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:00:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: Location check (was Re: [rescue] Geek Guild) In-Reply-To: <003801c13a42$c5c59f40$6500a8c0@cmhcsys.com> Message-ID: > OK, while we're getting the Geek Guild moving, I'd like to register my new > location with whoever is going to take on the job of keeping track of these > things. > If you really want to find me.... http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?n5xns From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 17:06:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:06:07 -0500 Subject: [geeks] testing, ignore Message-ID: <20010910170607.Y18242@mrbill.net> testing, ignore -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 17:07:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:07:07 -0500 Subject: [geeks] *kick* (ignore) Message-ID: <20010910170707.Z18242@mrbill.net> Ignore this - had to send a message through to re-kickstart the list archiving process. bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 18:18:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 16:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) In-Reply-To: <003401c139f6$00d54740$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > explaining. A few years ago, I decided that $11M was my stop-working > number - once I hit $11 Million "in the bank" (not over-valued tech stock > ;^), I stop working and live "La Vita Woz" (live where I like, teach young I figgured out that I need about $2M after taxes to retire for good. Enogh to buy a decent house in New Mexico, and stuff the rest into the appropriate investments, like tax-free munies and the like. (5% on $1M is $50K a year, tax-free. If my house were paid for, that would more than enough to live on.) But, I won't turn down $20M post-taxes, either. :-) "Sunblade 1000's all around!" -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 18:25:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 19:25:57 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Flying Pigs - OT WIN2K speed References: <002101c137a8$08deb110$0501000a@laboffice> <3B996491.5A18695E@gcstech.net> <20010908011034.F26352@mrbill.net> <20010908070504.1047BEA@proven.weird.com> <20010909180332.M26352@mrbill.net> <20010910010231.4DE0DE8@proven.weird.com> <012301c139a4$aa266fb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010910183023.C2EC0E8@proven.weird.com> <20010910151245.A22921@cs.millersville.edu> <026701c13a3f$cd70b1b0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010910172925.B23633@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <02b501c13a4f$f5200bb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > package, but if you go out of business, well the package was GPLed, so > they aren't SOL. But, I notice that you didn't say anything about giving > them the GPLed software. Oh well. Services are still the way to go even > if you don't give them the software. But, I think any sizable company > would be follish not to demand it if they really are going to depend on > your services. > Well - currently we do use some GPL stuff to make our systems run. However that's all changing. The next iteration (6 months out) will be totally written in-house. Truthfully, I can't think of anything we _currently_ use that *is* GPL or uses GPL libraries. It does run on Linux, uses Perl, and uses JRE - but I don't know of anything that *is* GPL. Not exactly sure - I could be mistaken. At any rate - version 2 is totally proprietary. It also is *very* complicated, and depends on Oracle for a *lot* of stuff. We might make the move to something else -since Oracle is such a pain, but that depends on how our DBA feels and what he comes up with. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 19:00:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 20:00:45 EDT Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... References: <000501c1399f$6e1f1a80$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <01361200045.dave.13447@cca.org> n2vip at yahoo.com writes: >> However - why does running multiple unix instances under VM help? >> >> Is this a context-switch-to-hide-latency type effect, like barel >> processors use? >Dave, >I suspect that the CPU is *so fast* that if the mainframe were to run a >single thread, the relatively slow I/O would really bog down the process (as >measured in *clock time*, not CPU time). The ratio of CPU speed to IO is the exact opposite of that in traditional mainframes. Compared to your typical workstation, they have wussy CPUs and mind-numbing IO. >In my (casual) experience, mainframes have an incredible ability to absorb >more tasks without effecting clock time for a given task too much, much like >a bus - it doesn't take longer to move 50 people from here to there than if >there were only one person in the bus... What you're seeing there is a "well balanced machine" as opposed to the jetpack-strapped-on-a-tricycle that most people are used to. How far off Amdahl's Law are PCs these days? >As i understand it, the *nix kernel does one thing at a time, and task >switches based on time slices - in such an implementation of a "classic" >*nix kernel on a mainframe, you would spend most of your time waiting for >I/O devices. But this is a *real* simplification, but I think it holds true >as details are added/model refined to closer map the actual tasks >involved... Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you here, but... Unix does not hang waiting on IO. A process either gives up its timeslice by making a request to the kernel, or it hits its time limit and gets interrupted. A process does not get scheduled for CPU time if it's waiting for IO. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- --------- "I prefer the ridiculous to the sublime." - James Chance --------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 20:38:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:38:01 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Flying Pigs - OT WIN2K speed In-Reply-To: <02b501c13a4f$f5200bb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <20010908011034.F26352@mrbill.net> <20010908070504.1047BEA@proven.weird.com> <20010909180332.M26352@mrbill.net> <20010910010231.4DE0DE8@proven.weird.com> <012301c139a4$aa266fb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010910183023.C2EC0E8@proven.weird.com> <20010910151245.A22921@cs.millersville.edu> <026701c13a3f$cd70b1b0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010910172925.B23633@cs.millersville.edu> <02b501c13a4f$f5200bb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010910213801.A29290@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 07:25:57PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Truthfully, I can't think of anything we _currently_ use that *is* GPL or > uses GPL libraries. It does run on Linux, uses Perl, and uses JRE - but I > don't know of anything that *is* GPL. Not exactly sure - I could be > mistaken. Linux is GPL. Perl is dual licensed, and I don't know about the JRE. But, whatever license you use is your choice. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 20:47:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:47:53 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) In-Reply-To: References: <003401c139f6$00d54740$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010910214753.B29290@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 04:18:45PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > > > explaining. A few years ago, I decided that $11M was my stop-working > > number - once I hit $11 Million "in the bank" (not over-valued tech stock > > ;^), I stop working and live "La Vita Woz" (live where I like, teach young > > I figgured out that I need about $2M after taxes to retire for good. > Enogh to buy a decent house in New Mexico, and stuff the rest into the > appropriate investments, like tax-free munies and the like. (5% on $1M is > $50K a year, tax-free. If my house were paid for, that would more than > enough to live on.) But, I won't turn down $20M post-taxes, either. :-) I think that $2M is probably not enough. Sure, $50k is fine now. But will it be fine in 20 years? On the other hand, if you only need $40k now, then you can send the other $10k back for compound interest, and that will likely get you up to the amount of annual interest you need in 20 years. In Cryptonomicon they had a phrase for this, fsck you money. I don't know what it would need to be for me, but it would need to be fairly considerable. Large enough to buy some nice property, have a comfterble annual income, plus enough extra for regular lab upgrades and philanthropic works. $10M might be enough, but if I actually started being able to talk in millions for personal worth, one of the first things I would do is run to a financial consultant, then double her numbers (I'm a pessimist sometimes). I probably would spend my time split between my own research and persuits, and teaching highschool or college. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 21:16:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 22:16:18 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Flying Pigs - OT WIN2K speed References: <20010908011034.F26352@mrbill.net> <20010908070504.1047BEA@proven.weird.com> <20010909180332.M26352@mrbill.net> <20010910010231.4DE0DE8@proven.weird.com> <012301c139a4$aa266fb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010910183023.C2EC0E8@proven.weird.com> <20010910151245.A22921@cs.millersville.edu> <026701c13a3f$cd70b1b0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010910172925.B23633@cs.millersville.edu> <02b501c13a4f$f5200bb0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010910213801.A29290@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <02ef01c13a67$c1568580$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > Linux is GPL. Perl is dual licensed, and I don't know about the JRE. > > But, whatever license you use is your choice. That struck me as I was hitting the Send button. Total brain fart... It's going to be interesting to see what it turns into. I'm not surewhat the final plan is, but I'm having fun watching them do it! Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 22:55:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 03:55:50 +0000 Subject: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues Message-ID: <20010911035550.PJUC21828.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> I'm no lawyer but maybe you could put some type of "copyright" notice on your material. "All text and images on this site can only be used with written permission....". He has used your image without permission which would be illegal use under photographic law but since you put them up on your website, this might not work, but that notice might give you more legal ground. Personally, I know a few perople that could "visit" the individual. A perk for living in Jersey. From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 23:07:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:07:42 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues In-Reply-To: <20010911035550.PJUC21828.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> References: <20010911035550.PJUC21828.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20010911000742.A31453@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 03:55:50AM +0000, wa2egp at att.net wrote: > I'm no lawyer but maybe you could put some type > of "copyright" notice on your material. "All text and > images on this site can only be used with written > permission....". He has used your image without > permission which would be illegal use under photographic > law but since you put them up on your website, this > might not work, but that notice might give you more > legal ground. Personally, I know a few perople that > could "visit" the individual. A perk for living in Again, no lawyer, but my understanding was that putting a pic on your web site doesn't make it any more public domain than publishing it in a fairly wide spread news letter does. But, I could be wrong. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 23:10:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:10:23 -0400 Subject: [geeks] palm security Message-ID: <20010911001023.B31453@cs.millersville.edu> Someone picked up my palm3 to look it over today. I realized that if it was ever stolen, or if certain people read through it, it would be a Very Bad Thing(tm) in many ways, personally, professionally, and possibly legally. Anyone ever hear of anyway to secure these things? My current plan is to dump stuff more routinely, but frankly I need a place to be able to record things like passwords (there are too many to remeber), and I would like to be able to record personal notes without fear also. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 23:41:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) In-Reply-To: <20010910214753.B29290@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > I think that $2M is probably not enough. Sure, $50k is fine now. But > will it be fine in 20 years? On the other hand, if you only need $40k > now, then you can send the other $10k back for compound interest, and that > will likely get you up to the amount of annual interest you need in 20 > years. Considering that $50K post-tax is about $81K pre-tax, it's not all that bad... You can live pretty damn well in New Mexico on that kind of salary. (Let's put it this way - I made less than that when we lived in New Mexico, and Chandra didn't work, and we had a decent house, and we ate quite well. Considering that our mortgage payment was $1200/month (14,400 per year...), which came out of post-tax earnings, we were doing well on way, way less than $50K/year. (My $2M includes paying for the house/land out of the first $1M and still having plenty left over.) It's all a matter of perspective... -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 10 23:56:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] StarTAC PDA Message-ID: I picked up the (formerly $299) Motorola StarTAC "clip on" PDA for $49. (Direct from motorola.) It seems to be a version of the REX PDA, and I'm looking for any info on a way to sync it with a Mac or *NIX. Anybody have any ideas? -Pete ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 00:00:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 10 Sep 2001 22:00:39 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1000184439.1142.9.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Sun, 2001-09-09 at 18:44, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > I've been with Sun a little over a year. Before that, I've held various > jobs, from radio DJ to Tech Writer (My degree is in tech writing), to Out of curiosity, just what does a tech writing degree cover? Is it focused more on the English language stuff, or more on translating from geek, or what? Just curious, as I've been trying to decide which, if any, venue of school sounds most useful. Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 00:23:10 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 22:23:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... In-Reply-To: <1000184439.1142.9.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Message-ID: On 10 Sep 2001, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > On Sun, 2001-09-09 at 18:44, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > > I've been with Sun a little over a year. Before that, I've held various > > jobs, from radio DJ to Tech Writer (My degree is in tech writing), to > > Out of curiosity, just what does a tech writing degree cover? Is it > focused more on the English language stuff, or more on translating from > geek, or what? Just curious, as I've been trying to decide which, if > any, venue of school sounds most useful. It's a pretty flexible degree (at least at Clarkson), and includes 30 hours of your choice, in addition to rhetoric, various writing and theory classes, editing, graphic design, inteface design, programming, etc. You end up pretty well-rounded, and it hasn't hurt my career to be a geek who can write. (I wrote a successful proposal to buy an E10K!) I'd do it again if I had to do it all over, but I would've paid more attention to some of my software courses, as I find myself having to really concentrate to learn stuff like solaris internals and kernel debugging. (As far as I'm concerned, the "Solaris Internals for Employees" class could easily be a full 3-hour semester-long course, instead of a week of hell...) -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 00:54:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:54:08 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... In-Reply-To: References: <1000184439.1142.9.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Message-ID: <20010911005407.M18242@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 10:23:10PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > I'd do it again if I had to do it all over, but I would've paid more > attention to some of my software courses, as I find myself having to > really concentrate to learn stuff like solaris internals and kernel > debugging. (As far as I'm concerned, the "Solaris Internals for > Employees" class could easily be a full 3-hour semester-long course, > instead of a week of hell...) Is it anything like the "Solaris Internals" book? Thats a GREAT book... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 00:57:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:57:40 -0500 Subject: [geeks] WTB: 4 x 32mb DIMMs for U60 Message-ID: <20010911005740.O18242@mrbill.net> Looking for four 32meg DIMMs for an Ultra 60.... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 01:12:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 06:12:08 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > quite well. Considering that our mortgage payment was $1200/month (14,400 > per year...), which came out of post-tax earnings, we were doing well on > way, way less than $50K/year. (My $2M includes paying for the house/land > out of the first $1M and still having plenty left over.) One of my goals in life will be to acquire enough land so that I can detonate whatever the hell I want without too much trouble from the feds. I've always wanted to see what a dump-truck full of fertilizer can do... but I know the EPA would kill me for "dumping" all that diesel fuel... I'm thinking a massive (15'?) crater, with foundations cracking as far as a mile out, unless it's done in a really rocky area. There's just something about a big damn boom... Imagine the view from a mountain top. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 01:20:35 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 01:20:35 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010911012035.P18242@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 06:12:08AM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > One of my goals in life will be to acquire enough land so that I can > detonate whatever the hell I want without too much trouble from the feds. > I've always wanted to see what a dump-truck full of fertilizer can do... > but I know the EPA would kill me for "dumping" all that diesel fuel... April 19th, 1995. I lived in Oklahoma City at the time. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 01:50:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 01:50:04 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) In-Reply-To: References: <20010911012035.P18242@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010911015004.Q18242@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 06:50:22AM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > > April 19th, 1995. I lived in Oklahoma City at the time. > Ooooohhhh... Well, that took the fun out of that idea. The date was also my first day at ioNET/Internet Oklahoma, Inc., my first UNIX/ISP job (I was tech support, "graduated" to assistant BOFH before I left..) it was a VERY interesting first day, to say the least. We ended up winning a few awards for our online news coverage of what happened, this was back in the day before widespread online news, etc. At the time, we even had a streaming RealVideo (I think) feed of one of the local TV news channels that was doing 24/7 coverage. It was probably illegal, but at the time, NOBODY cared - we just wanted to get as much news as possible out to everyone. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 01:50:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 06:50:22 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) In-Reply-To: <20010911012035.P18242@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > April 19th, 1995. I lived in Oklahoma City at the time. Ooooohhhh... Well, that took the fun out of that idea. Aside: It amazes me about how many "red-letter dates" made their way by me without me noticing. The computer world is full of one innovation after another between 1994 and 1998 and I don't remember reading about them once. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 05:17:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:17:16 +0100 Subject: [geeks] palm security In-Reply-To: <20010911001023.B31453@cs.millersville.edu>; from jdboyd@cs.millersville.edu on Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 12:10:23AM -0400 References: <20010911001023.B31453@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010911111715.E27214@plough.barnyard.co.uk> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 12:10:23AM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > Someone picked up my palm3 to look it over today. > > I realized that if it was ever stolen, or if certain people read through > it, it would be a Very Bad Thing(tm) in many ways, personally, > professionally, and possibly legally. > > Anyone ever hear of anyway to secure these things? My current plan is to > dump stuff more routinely, but frankly I need a place to be able to record > things like passwords (there are too many to remeber), and I would like to > be able to record personal notes without fear also. I use Keyring for storing passwords . It's not 100% secure but it does the job, and I was impressed to see their website explaining its weaknesses and potential attacks. That demonstrates to me that they have actually thought about the product instead of just drooling "encryption ... mmm ... secure". There are several apps and hacks for 'securing' a Palm. Search on for examples. I don't use any such apps myself, as they're too much of a pain for day-to-day use, and because to be really effective they'd need to work at a pretty low level in the Palm OS and I'm worried about losing data to crashes etc. If I ever need to start keeping memopad records secure, then I'll use one of the memopad replacements which supports secure records. Incidentally, don't rely on making records 'private' to keep them secure. All that does is flip a single bit in the record which the built-in apps will honour but which third-party apps are free to ignore. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H. L. Mencken From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 06:55:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 07:55:12 -0400 Subject: [geeks] WTB: 4 x 32mb DIMMs for U60 References: <20010911005740.O18242@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <000901c13ab8$9da4c7e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> sunguk on eBay, by far the cheapest, and you can contact him direct for faster sale. $10/ea, plus $5 for S/H (no matter how many ordered) At that price, no Ultra 1/2/30/60, SS/20 should have empty DIMM slots, IMHO. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:57 AM Subject: [geeks] WTB: 4 x 32mb DIMMs for U60 > Looking for four 32meg DIMMs for an Ultra 60.... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 06:58:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 07:58:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] palm security References: <20010911001023.B31453@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <001501c13ab9$07529d20$0301a8c0@kensportege> Is the internal password security inadequate for your needs? Have you looked into the various Palm sites for freeware alternatives? Please define your wants/needs a bit better... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua D Boyd" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:10 AM Subject: [geeks] palm security > I realized that if it was ever stolen, or if certain people read through > it, it would be a Very Bad Thing(tm) in many ways, personally, > professionally, and possibly legally. > > Anyone ever hear of anyway to secure these things? My current plan is to > dump stuff more routinely, but frankly I need a place to be able to record > things like passwords (there are too many to remeber), and I would like to > be able to record personal notes without fear also. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 07:04:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:04:45 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) References: Message-ID: <002101c13ab9$f3122d20$0301a8c0@kensportege> For me, the $11 million figure was based on the simple idea that with that kind of money, I could live out my own "reasonable" fantasy - house in the mountains or at the shore, house "in town" where I live now, a couple cars, no concerns about my son's school bills, no concerns about medical costs, and enough money to leave a "Big Pile o' Money" for my son... Besides, I plan on living for about another 60-70 years - I'd hate to stop working, then 30 years down the road realize I need more money... That would be bad... Very Bad. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter L. Wargo" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) > Considering that $50K post-tax is about $81K pre-tax, it's not all that > bad... You can live pretty damn well in New Mexico on that kind of > salary. (Let's put it this way - I made less than that when we lived in > New Mexico, and Chandra didn't work, and we had a decent house, and we ate > quite well. Considering that our mortgage payment was $1200/month (14,400 > per year...), which came out of post-tax earnings, we were doing well on > way, way less than $50K/year. (My $2M includes paying for the house/land > out of the first $1M and still having plenty left over.) > > It's all a matter of perspective... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 07:09:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:09:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... References: Message-ID: <002d01c13aba$94ed6b00$0301a8c0@kensportege> If you are technical and can write a decent paper, putting forth an argument or proposition, you will go far in this industry. Many folks worked so hard at being the best programmer, they failed to realize that there are far more things that influence your ability to succeeed than just your ability to program in 8 different languages... YMMV, Ken (Humanities Major, after getting a bad taste in my mouth for my attempted EE, then CS degrees - hasn't hurt my technical career in *any* way) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter L. Wargo" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... > It's a pretty flexible degree (at least at Clarkson), and includes 30 > hours of your choice, in addition to rhetoric, various writing and theory > classes, editing, graphic design, inteface design, programming, etc. You > end up pretty well-rounded, and it hasn't hurt my career to be a geek who > can write. (I wrote a successful proposal to buy an E10K!) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 07:14:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:14:49 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) References: Message-ID: <004301c13abb$5b6ab620$0301a8c0@kensportege> Heh, my first day at work was October 16th or 17th, 1987 - the day teh stock market crashed, the Vincense shot down the Iranian passenger jet. I thought it was a sign from God that I shouldn't be working. At the time, I was working in a datacenter as a mainframe operator, when the second shift came in, we heard about the "events" of the day... Remember, this was pre-Ubiquitous Internet... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris Kirby" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:50 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > > April 19th, 1995. I lived in Oklahoma City at the time. > > Ooooohhhh... Well, that took the fun out of that idea. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 07:16:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:16:13 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Fw: OT:Take a look... Message-ID: <005a01c13abb$91ab42e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C13A9A.05533BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I tried to send this three days ago, but the mailserver wouldn't take it = (Bill's mailserver, as far as I can tell)... Ken ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ken Hansen=20 To: geeks at sunhelp.org=20 Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 7:47 AM Subject: OT:Take a look... http://www.viz-a-ball.com/ Interesting idea, but how does that price compare with more "standard" = items... What would you put on yours? Ken ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C13A9A.05533BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I tried to send this three days ago, = but the=20 mailserver wouldn't take it (Bill's mailserver, as far as I can=20 tell)...
 
Ken
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ken Hansen=20
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 7:47 AM
Subject: OT:Take a look...

http://www.viz-a-ball.com/=
 
Interesting idea, but how does that = price compare=20 with more "standard" items...
 
What would you put on = yours?
 
Ken
------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C13A9A.05533BC0-- From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 07:26:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:26:39 -0400 Subject: [geeks] palm security References: <20010911001023.B31453@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <031a01c13abd$04c71370$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > Anyone ever hear of anyway to secure these things? My current plan is to > dump stuff more routinely, but frankly I need a place to be able to record > things like passwords (there are too many to remeber), and I would like to > be able to record personal notes without fear also. > I *think* that there's a version of PGP for the palm. There also should be a power-on password setting (going by memory) somewhere. You just made me think about this too - my Palm totally unsecured and if it ever fell into bad hands... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 07:44:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:44:38 -0700 Subject: [geeks] palm security Message-ID: I have seen articles that explain that the palm OS is incapable of being secured, and that info can be sucked out using a nearby palm and the infrared port. The article was written by a security guru and made an example from some consulting he did for the US military. As a result of this work, Colin Powel (sp?) is no longer allowed to carry a palm. > > Anyone ever hear of anyway to secure these things? My > current plan is to > > dump stuff more routinely, but frankly I need a place to be > able to record > > things like passwords (there are too many to remeber), and > I would like to > > be able to record personal notes without fear also. > > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 07:56:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:56:43 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues References: <20010911035550.PJUC21828.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> <20010911000742.A31453@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <003f01c13ac1$35f6f240$0501000a@laboffice> I remember reading something which stated that under some interpretations of copyrite law, any thing posted to a news group, web site, or even through email was copyrite by the author UNLESS otherwise noted. I would imagine that this is a bit stricter then what is actually used, but its worth thinking about. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua D Boyd" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:07 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] Internet Legal Issues > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 03:55:50AM +0000, wa2egp at att.net wrote: > > I'm no lawyer but maybe you could put some type > > of "copyright" notice on your material. "All text and > > images on this site can only be used with written > > permission....". He has used your image without > > permission which would be illegal use under photographic > > law but since you put them up on your website, this > > might not work, but that notice might give you more > > legal ground. Personally, I know a few perople that > > could "visit" the individual. A perk for living in > > Again, no lawyer, but my understanding was that putting a pic on your web > site doesn't make it any more public domain than publishing it in a fairly > wide spread news letter does. But, I could be wrong. > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 08:04:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:04:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] palm security References: Message-ID: <007001c13ac2$58fbfbe0$0501000a@laboffice> I found this from a different source, but yeah, thats pretty much the problem with its built in password system (the article I saw used a hacked link cable instead of infrared, and then used the debugger routines to get the info). A seperate PGP system might work ok, it really depends on the technical savvy of those who you are worried might find your palm. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fogg, James" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 8:44 AM Subject: RE: [geeks] palm security > I have seen articles that explain that the palm OS is incapable of being > secured, and that info can be sucked out using a nearby palm and the > infrared port. > > The article was written by a security guru and made an example from some > consulting he did for the US military. As a result of this work, Colin Powel > (sp?) is no longer allowed to carry a palm. > > > > Anyone ever hear of anyway to secure these things? My > > current plan is to > > > dump stuff more routinely, but frankly I need a place to be > > able to record > > > things like passwords (there are too many to remeber), and > > I would like to > > > be able to record personal notes without fear also. > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 09:18:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (linc) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:18:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <20010911093117.V18242@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > My thoughts go out to those killed and injured on the attacks on the > World Trade Center towers (one of which has entirely collapsed) and > the Pentagon and Mall. > > Bill My prayers as well.. -- 10:17am up 29 days, 3:41, 5 users, load average: 1.00, 1.00, 1.00 From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 09:19:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (linc) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <20010911093736.L30699@frankenputer.blinky-lights.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Derrick Daugherty wrote: > Both have collapsed. Car bomb at the state dept, and there is a > hijacked plane on the way to NYC > > these are passenger planes > > This is a _bad_ _bad_ day > > > the WTC is gone Also a major plane crash in western PA.. No doubt from all the diverted air traffic.. -- 10:18am up 29 days, 3:42, 5 users, load average: 1.00, 1.00, 1.00 From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 09:31:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:31:17 -0500 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. Message-ID: <20010911093117.V18242@mrbill.net> My thoughts go out to those killed and injured on the attacks on the World Trade Center towers (one of which has entirely collapsed) and the Pentagon and Mall. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 09:37:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Derrick Daugherty) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:37:36 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <20010911093117.V18242@mrbill.net> References: <20010911093117.V18242@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010911093736.L30699@frankenputer.blinky-lights.org> It's rumored that around Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 09:31:17AM -0500 Bill Bradford wrote: > My thoughts go out to those killed and injured on the attacks on the > World Trade Center towers (one of which has entirely collapsed) and > the Pentagon and Mall. > Both have collapsed. Car bomb at the state dept, and there is a hijacked plane on the way to NYC these are passenger planes This is a _bad_ _bad_ day the WTC is gone From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 09:39:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael S. Schiller) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:39:26 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: <20010911093117.V18242@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3B9E221E.DF83781B@agrijag.com> I understand that both towers are now gone. Is this really happening? -Mike Bill Bradford wrote: > My thoughts go out to those killed and injured on the attacks on the > World Trade Center towers (one of which has entirely collapsed) and > the Pentagon and Mall. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 09:41:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:41:50 +0100 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: <20010911093117.V18242@mrbill.net> <3B9E221E.DF83781B@agrijag.com> Message-ID: <022e01c13acf$e6065320$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> Unfortunately, it seems to be. Car bombs in Washington I heard. Attempts on the Pentagon, all sorts of scary, crazy stuff. Canary Wharf in London has been evacuated just in case. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael S. Schiller" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] oh my god. > I understand that both towers are now gone. Is this really happening? > > -Mike > > Bill Bradford wrote: > > > My thoughts go out to those killed and injured on the attacks on the > > World Trade Center towers (one of which has entirely collapsed) and > > the Pentagon and Mall. > > > > Bill > > > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 09:42:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:42:09 -0500 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <3B9E221E.DF83781B@agrijag.com> References: <20010911093117.V18242@mrbill.net> <3B9E221E.DF83781B@agrijag.com> Message-ID: <20010911094209.W18242@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 10:39:26AM -0400, Michael S. Schiller wrote: > I understand that both towers are now gone. Is this really happening? and I just heard that a 727 hit the pentagon. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 10:45:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:45:12 -0500 Subject: [geeks] news update from cnn Message-ID: <20010911104512.X18242@mrbill.net> http://robots.cnn.com is fast, btw Terror attacks hit U.S. September 11, 2001 Posted: 1457 GMT People walk away from the World Trade Center as ash rains down. NEW YORK (CNN) -- Terrorists struck the United States Tuesday morning in harrowing, widespread attacks that included at least three commercial jet crashes into significant buildings. In the first attack, a plane hit the north tower of the World Trade Center in Manhattan shortly before 9 a.m., followed by another plane into the second tower about 20 minutes later. Both towers later collapsed. About an hour later, a plane crashed into the Pentagon, part of which later collapsed. American Airlines told CNN that it lost two planes in "tragic accidents:" Flight 11 from Boston with 81 passengers and 11 crew aboard and Flight 77 from Washington Dulles airport with 58 passengers and six crew aboard. Both planes were en route to Los Angeles United Airlines Flight 93 airliner headed from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, crashed near Somerset, Pennsylvania -- police said initial reports indicated no survivors. It was not known if this was connected to the attacks. United also said it was "deeply concerned" about Flight l75 from Boston to Los Angeles. The Pentagon, the White House, the State Department, the Justice Department, the Capitol, the CIA and all other government buildings in Washington evacuated. In the first ever national ground stop of aircraft, all flights nationwide have been stopped at their departure airports. All international flights were diverted to Canada. Israel has evacuated all its missions around the world. President Bush cancelled an appearance in Florida to return to Washington, calling the crashes "apparent terrorist attacks" and "a national tragedy." In Chicago, the Sears Tower was evacuated; United Nations in New York evacuated. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta was evacuated. CDC was preparing bioterrorism teams in case they become necessary. The New York Port Authority said it had closed all bridges and tunnels into the city. New York's Bellevue Hospital was designated command central for handling the catastrophe. Several hospitals have already reported receiving victims with burns and head injuries. U.S. stock markets were closed after the New York attacks. -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 10:49:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Rob) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <3B9E221E.DF83781B@agrijag.com> Message-ID: I saw the first oe collapse from the NJ shore. It's happening. - Rob On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Michael S. Schiller wrote: > I understand that both towers are now gone. Is this really happening? > > -Mike > > Bill Bradford wrote: > > > My thoughts go out to those killed and injured on the attacks on the > > World Trade Center towers (one of which has entirely collapsed) and > > the Pentagon and Mall. > > > > Bill > > > > -- > > Bill Bradford > > mrbill at mrbill.net > > Austin, TX > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > -- > -Mike > *------------------------------------------------------------------* > *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * > *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * > *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * > *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 10:59:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:59:07 -0400 Subject: [geeks] news update from cnn References: <20010911104512.X18242@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3B9E34CB.893BD52C@avoidant.org> Bill Bradford wrote: > > http://robots.cnn.com is fast, btw hrm, yeah. I'm listening to AP news radio from radiostorm.com over xmms ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 12:03:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:03:40 -0500 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> R> I saw the first oe collapse from the NJ shore. It's happening. I changed channels and saw it happen as I watched. I really can't believe it's happening/happened. My condolences to anyone even remotely touched by this. It's all I can give until they open up the blood-mobiles. If you're close to any military/commercial targets now would be a good time to visit friends in places like Wyoming. Anybody close to a target? I'm about 20 minutes from Recon Optical in Barrington, IL. Worries me a little. I think my family and I are going to visit friends in upper Wisconsin. Anybody hear if they found the last plane yet? Mike Hebel (Typing to cover his paranoia and calm his fears.) mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 12:30:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:30:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <3B9E4A41.ED2BB4F2@avoidant.org> Mike Hebel wrote: > > Anybody hear if they found the last plane yet? United confirmed that it crashed, they haven't said where. ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 12:36:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D.A. Muran-de Assereto) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:36:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: I work at the US Southern Command. Although there's been no activity down here in Miami, the TV news is full of concern, of course. People are worried about strikes against the nuclear power facilities and such. Just a suspicion, but I bet the PA crash was an error; if it was a terr attack, it's almost anti-climactic after the WTC and the Pentagon. Perhaps something went wrong in their plans. Of course, it could just be a tragic coincidence as well, since it really doesn't seem to fit. Dave Muran-de Assereto From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 12:57:31 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:57:31 -0500 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16366951328.20010911125731@crosswinds.net> DAMdA> I work at the US Southern Command. Although there's been no activity DAMdA> down here in Miami, the TV news is full of concern, of course. People DAMdA> are worried about strikes against the nuclear power facilities and DAMdA> such. DAMdA> Just a suspicion, but I bet the PA crash was an error; if it was a terr DAMdA> attack, it's almost anti-climactic after the WTC and the Pentagon. Perhaps DAMdA> something went wrong in their plans. Of course, it could just be a tragic DAMdA> coincidence as well, since it really doesn't seem to fit. I bet you're right about the PA crash. Maybe somebody chose to crash land instead of hit a target. As coordinated as this is - I'm still worried about being so close to a company that creates quite a large part of the government air surveillance systems. (http://www.roi.bourns.com/salesoffice.htm) My wife and my sister work in Barrington. Thankfully my friend in NYC is ok although he won't be seeing his wife soon because she's in Korea. Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 13:23:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (koyote) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Rob wrote: > The die is cast. I can't see any response less than war being sufficient > to satify American Bloodlust over these events. > > - Rob > I guess it depends on your definition of war. I think it's about time to do a F.O.D. walkdown of a few countries. I don't want to kill random people, but I'd rather see another cold war era germany type of government for any country that is heavly involved in terrorism than continued autonomy and more dead people -C From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 13:25:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:25:39 -0500 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... Message-ID: <85368639484.20010911132539@crosswinds.net> I was wondering what Bush was going to be able to do to make himself appear a strong president. A sick opportunity but one that will probably not be laid aside. McCain's on ABC calling for us to go to war with whoever did this. *sigh* I hope my daughter won't have to grow up during a "real" war. Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 13:52:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D.A. Muran-de Assereto) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:52:07 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <16366951328.20010911125731@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: I just heard on CNN that there was a passenger in the bathroom on the plane that went down in PA who was talking to authorities on his cellphone, apparently up until the last minute. We'll find out more when those tapes come out. I'd like to believe that someone decided to be heroic. Unfortunately, the primary characteristic of something like this is that you're never really sure it's over unless you have a very good estimate of your attacker's resources. The planning on this series of events indicates a fair level of sophistication, but actually, if things are as they seem, the resource expenditure is rather low. I'd estimate that you'd need somewhere between 8 and 15 operational suicidal fanatics to pull this off, based on their level of competence, plus some logistics support. This isn't very many people, considering the types of resources that are available to world terr organizations. Political grandstanding aside, we have a history of pulling together in support of retaliation for events like this. I've never met anyone who had any regrets about ElDorado canyon, except that we missed Qadafi. Same goes for most of the other retaliations -- generally, the complaints are that we missed the prime target or that they went on too long and cost too much. In order to do this right, we will have to put together a massive campaign, and not allow ridiculous protestations of terr-supporting governments to get in our way. It also has to be a quick and surgical response; once the immediacy of the horror wears away, both Americans and foreign governments will start to worry about the potential consequences and cost of retaliation. Much as I hate to say it, either the Israelis or the French generally handle this sort of thing better than we do. Their sense of proportion occasionally leaves something to be desired, but they really don't worry about the public relations aspects of what they do until after the fact. I would expect politicians to make the most of this, but hope that the traditional sense of unity in adversity prevails. As long as they make their hay by standing behind the American people and the efforts of the in-place administration to clean this up and nail the attacker(s), it's all more-or-less irrelevant. What irks me is that, as sure as shooting, someone is going to point a finger at the intelligence community and start a bloodbath. One of these days, we will understand that intelligence agencies are not omniscient, and that effective intelligence collection, analysis, and reporting cost stratospheric amounts of money. Dave Muran-de Assereto From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 13:59:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:59:42 -0400 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... In-Reply-To: <85368639484.20010911132539@crosswinds.net> References: <85368639484.20010911132539@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <20010911145942.A13009@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 01:25:39PM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > I was wondering what Bush was going to be able to do to make himself appear a > strong president. A sick opportunity but one that will probably not > be laid aside. > > McCain's on ABC calling for us to go to war with whoever did this. > > *sigh* I hope my daughter won't have to grow up during a "real" war. It is a bit early to talk about war isn't it? I mean, I would think that we should figure out who is responsible, then consider what reaction is reasonable, war possibly being one of the actions to consider. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 14:23:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:23:40 -0500 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... In-Reply-To: <20010911145942.A13009@cs.millersville.edu> References: <85368639484.20010911132539@crosswinds.net> <20010911145942.A13009@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <54372120554.20010911142340@crosswinds.net> JDB> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 01:25:39PM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: >> I was wondering what Bush was going to be able to do to make himself appear a >> strong president. A sick opportunity but one that will probably not >> be laid aside. >> >> McCain's on ABC calling for us to go to war with whoever did this. >> >> *sigh* I hope my daughter won't have to grow up during a "real" war. JDB> It is a bit early to talk about war isn't it? I mean, I would think that JDB> we should figure out who is responsible, then consider what reaction is JDB> reasonable, war possibly being one of the actions to consider. I agree but I don't think the U.S. gooberment will see it that way. Nor will most of the American public if given the half a push like several people in the media/government seem to be doing. Or is my paranoia flaring up again? Do I need to take my meds? Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 14:27:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Rob) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:27:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Personally, I think the PA crash was a failed attempt to crash into Camp David. It's the only remotely interesting target in the area. I could of course be wrong because I can't think like a heartless psycho-terrorist. It's a sad sad day and it's not going to better for some time. - Rob On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, D.A. Muran-de Assereto wrote: > I work at the US Southern Command. Although there's been no activity > down here in Miami, the TV news is full of concern, of course. People > are worried about strikes against the nuclear power facilities and > such. > Just a suspicion, but I bet the PA crash was an error; if it was a terr > attack, it's almost anti-climactic after the WTC and the Pentagon. Perhaps > something went wrong in their plans. Of course, it could just be a tragic > coincidence as well, since it really doesn't seem to fit. > > > Dave Muran-de Assereto > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 14:29:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Rob) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... In-Reply-To: <20010911145942.A13009@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: The die is cast. I can't see any response less than war being sufficient to satify American Bloodlust over these events. - Rob On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 01:25:39PM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > > I was wondering what Bush was going to be able to do to make himself appear a > > strong president. A sick opportunity but one that will probably not > > be laid aside. > > > > McCain's on ABC calling for us to go to war with whoever did this. > > > > *sigh* I hope my daughter won't have to grow up during a "real" war. > > It is a bit early to talk about war isn't it? I mean, I would think that > we should figure out who is responsible, then consider what reaction is > reasonable, war possibly being one of the actions to consider. > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 14:31:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D.A. Muran-de Assereto) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:31:01 -0400 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... In-Reply-To: <20010911145942.A13009@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: I suspect that he's just echoing the personal feelings of millions of Americans. I know that I have a keen desire for revenge, and, should this incident have been sponsored/tolerated by a nation-state, I'd be ready for some entirely-out-of-proportion retaliation against the government of said state. Cooler heads will prevail; the rhetoric will continue for some time, and perhaps be used as an example of the good character of the speaker during the next election, but the likelihood of us declaring was on, for example, Afghanistan, over this is vanishingly small unless their government actually ordered or carried out the mission. Dave Muran-de Assereto > -----Original Message----- > From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf > Of Joshua D Boyd > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 15:00 > To: geeks at sunhelp.org > Subject: Re: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... > > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 01:25:39PM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > > I was wondering what Bush was going to be able to do to make > himself appear a > > strong president. A sick opportunity but one that will probably not > > be laid aside. > > > > McCain's on ABC calling for us to go to war with whoever did this. > > > > *sigh* I hope my daughter won't have to grow up during a "real" war. > > It is a bit early to talk about war isn't it? I mean, I would think that > we should figure out who is responsible, then consider what reaction is > reasonable, war possibly being one of the actions to consider. > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 14:45:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Phil Brutsche) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:45:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu> Quoting Mike Hebel : > If you're close to any military/commercial targets now would be a good > time to visit friends in places like Wyoming. Well, considering that I'm in Omaha and Air Force One (complete with the President) landed at the airbase about 5 miles south of where I'm sitting... Phil From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 14:52:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:52:34 -0500 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu> References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> <1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu> Message-ID: <75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net> PB> Quoting Mike Hebel : >> If you're close to any military/commercial targets now would be a good >> time to visit friends in places like Wyoming. PB> Well, considering that I'm in Omaha and Air Force One (complete with the PB> President) landed at the airbase about 5 miles south of where I'm sitting... Wow! Might as well paint a bulls-eye on the top of your computer. ;-) Seriously, these attacks were planned carefully. I think we're seeing the outcome of a year or more of planning. I don't think we'll se any more attacks within at least the next 24 hours unless someone is _looking_ to openly start a war with us. Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 15:23:10 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:23:10 -0400 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... References: Message-ID: <04b001c13aff$96de3120$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > The die is cast. I can't see any response less than war being sufficient > to satify American Bloodlust over these events. > A coworker has expressed that he will re-enlist if it comes to that. I honestly don't know what I would do. My emotions call for war, my more pragmatic side (the one currently in control) wants to be absolutely sure of the aggressors - and then wipe them from the face of the earth with a well planned, surgical operation. There's a ton of opinion out there about this. Most of it boils down to "someone's gotta pay the ultimate price". I personally fulfilled my daily goal, by pissing off someone whom I can only describe as bleading heart liberal (appologies - my flame suit is on - I have no other words right now). In fact, myself and another pissed him off so bad that he actually left the office. The discussion was, oddly enough, over the expected (or rather, expected lack of a) lasting financial impact of the morning's events. Odd sort of thing to get so upset about... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 15:42:31 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:42:31 -0400 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... In-Reply-To: References: <04b001c13aff$96de3120$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010911164231.B14455@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 08:49:06PM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > There's a ton of opinion out there about this. Most of it boils down to > > "someone's gotta pay the ultimate price". > > Wrap your minds around this: The 41st president was considered weak until > we almost turned Baghdad into a parking lot. Now the 43rd is in the same > position. Eerie, no? I think that starting a war then failing to turn baghdad into a parking lot might have been a mistake. Or in other words, don't get involved unless you are going to finish it properly. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 15:43:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:43:03 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Mike Hebel wrote: > Anybody close to a target? I'm about 20 minutes from Recon Optical in > Barrington, IL. Worries me a little. I think my family and I are > going to visit friends in upper Wisconsin. Uh.. Uh... Shit! Five miles from Redstone Arsenal, AL. (Home of Army Missle Command [MICOM]) ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 15:48:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:48:06 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: Message-ID: <000f01c13b03$1039d210$0501000a@laboffice> Im just happy that I am within vaporization range of DC, and that I am no longer living in the area that would be hit with heavy fallout. You have to look at these things with the proper perspective. Not making lite of the situation, just pointing out that things could be worse. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris Kirby" To: "Rob" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:43 PM Subject: Re[2]: [geeks] oh my god. > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Mike Hebel wrote: > > Anybody close to a target? I'm about 20 minutes from Recon Optical in > > Barrington, IL. Worries me a little. I think my family and I are > > going to visit friends in upper Wisconsin. > > Uh.. Uh... Shit! Five miles from Redstone Arsenal, AL. (Home of Army > Missle Command [MICOM]) > > ----- > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > | > ------------------------------------------------------- > "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 15:49:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:49:06 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... In-Reply-To: <04b001c13aff$96de3120$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > There's a ton of opinion out there about this. Most of it boils down to > "someone's gotta pay the ultimate price". Wrap your minds around this: The 41st president was considered weak until we almost turned Baghdad into a parking lot. Now the 43rd is in the same position. Eerie, no? ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 16:08:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Tugrul Galatali) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:08:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [geeks] God, I've never seen anything like it... Message-ID: I got up at 9:30 this morning to shower and scramble out of my house for a hour commute to NYU for 11AM classes. My friend called me and told me to scrap any plans of going to school. All the TV channels in NYC but CBS and some local air channels (I don't have cable... which I oddly ordered last night) are gone. The bloody tower just collapsed as I was trying to swallow what I was seeing. I ran down to my mom's store, told her I didn't head into the city, and then I started biking around Queens looking for places overlooking the southern Manhattan skyline. For a person that went to high school a couple of blocks from the WTC, and spent much time in the mall underneath them, jesus. And the summers I spent playing ultimate in their shadow. And from NYU, it will be odd not to see anything when looking down West Broadway, which went down a straight line to between the towers. gah, don't know what to say. Thousands of people in each tower. I just hope they are rebuilt. I will not settle for a stupid memorial, the skyline must be restored. Its like loosing your front two teeth. A mark of a proud city. I will try to bike down to the Brooklyn coast once I get ahold of a map and rest from this mornings trip. Tugrul Galatali From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 16:16:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:16:58 -0400 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... In-Reply-To: <20010911164231.B14455@cs.millersville.edu> References: <04b001c13aff$96de3120$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010911164231.B14455@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: >On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 08:49:06PM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: >> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: >> > There's a ton of opinion out there about this. Most of it boils down to >> > "someone's gotta pay the ultimate price". >> >> Wrap your minds around this: The 41st president was considered weak until >> we almost turned Baghdad into a parking lot. Now the 43rd is in the same >> position. Eerie, no? > >I think that starting a war then failing to turn baghdad into a parking >lot might have been a mistake. Or in other words, don't get involved >unless you are going to finish it properly. Hasn't there been enough bloodshed already? Tens of THOUSANDS of people have just died today. If we go out and start blasting anybody we will generate MORE ill will and we gear up for MORE terrorist attacks. I've studied military history and theory a bit and I think this will become the next vietnam. There is NO target, it could be anyone. They have the freedom to strike without warning and with weapons that are nearly impossible to defend against. In our own war for independence our forces used tactics that the British had no way to defend against. The civilian population of a country is not a valid target in a war, we are, quite rightly so, unwilling to engage in the same terrorist acts that others have done to us. This is a group of criminals, not a military threat. The scale of their crimes deserve death 10 thousand times over but I do NOT believe a military strike will solve anything. daniel From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 16:30:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:30:27 EDT Subject: [geeks] My take Message-ID: <20010911213047.YZUA22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Expected deaths have ranged from 10-30,000. More people probably died than live in the city I live in. Consider that 55,000 Americans died in the whole of Vietnam. This is the highest loss of American lives on a single day ever. It is also quite possible that more American civilians were killed on this day than all of the rest of history put together as a result of terrorism or war. If it turns out to be bin Laden, who I think it is, then here is what I think should happen. 1. Give Afghanistan 24hours to hand him and his fellow terrorists over. 2. If that doesn't happen, go to war. Invade the country. Do NOT do simple surgical bombings. Invade and occupy their cities and land. Possible do this with Russia. I might even support the use of things like nukes. Bring back the B-52s and carpet bomb, Use ICBMs with nuclear or conventional weapons. This is not the place where we do pathetic attempts to get those responsible. We need to fight terror with terror, We need to send a message that states who support terrorism will not be tolerated. Our retribution needs to be so intense and horrific that people who commit these acts wll think twice. A couple cruise missles and a smart bomb run or two won't accomplish anything at all. On another note about plane security. Specifically it sucks. There are reports that the plain that crashed in PA was taken over with knives. There is a very simple solution to these types of problems - put a think door on the cockpit which can only be locked and opened from the inside. Make it bulletproof. That alone would prevent almost all terrorist attacks of this type. Secondly, put the planes on computerized flight control. Override would be from the control towers only or by a code inputed by the pilot. Pressing a hijack button would disallow the pilot to disable the computer. My thoughts are still very cluttered by this absolutely horrible tradegy but the basic ideas are right. My deepest sympathies to those to know anybody involved and to all the poor, innocent people who died. Mike PS. Building 7, 45 stories just collapsed. From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 16:36:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:36:44 -0400 Subject: [geeks] My take In-Reply-To: <20010911213047.YZUA22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> References: <20010911213047.YZUA22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: <20010911173644.A14935@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 05:30:27PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > attempts to get those responsible. We need to fight terror with terror, > We need to send a message that states who support terrorism will not be > tolerated. Our retribution needs to be so intense and horrific that > people who commit these acts wll think twice. A couple cruise missles > and a smart bomb run or two won't accomplish anything at all. Perhaps war is nescesarry (I hope not), but it certainly wouldn't do to go to war for revenge. Revenge starts are unacceptable cycle of blood. Just trying to install terror in other people rather than effect a specific change in government is about as bad. War should only be used to force another country to permenantly and drastically change. Failure to do so is to have wasted lives. I think that pretty much everyone who died in Desert Storm was completely wasted since no apparent change has really happened in Iraq. Saddam still sits there giving every appearance of trying to rebuild enough to fight another war. Likewise Vietnam was a waste since no change was affected against the North Vietnamese. On the other hand, in the WWs, Japan and Germany were forcibly changed and rebuilt with virtually no remnants of the old evil. Were the WWs worth it? Looking at the horrors conducted by the Germans and Japanese, possibly. But we didn't enter WWI out of a sense of nobleness, but rather to protect our shipping routes, and I can't say that we were that much better about WWII. But, these are the details that doctorates are made of. All I can say is that in retrospect, the endings to the WWs were much more satisfactory, and the main difference is that the enemy nations were completely changed in ways that we controlled. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 16:39:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:39:14 -0400 Subject: [geeks] My take In-Reply-To: <20010911154301.O2437@zilla.nu> References: <20010911213047.YZUA22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> <20010911154301.O2437@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010911173914.B14935@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 03:43:01PM -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > Then again, the US is odd about sending aid. We give Israel more cash > than any other nation, but that's OK, because we get most of it back > when they buy arms from us. They then use the arms to kill Palestinians > (right or wrong), and we wonder why the Arab nations still hate us. For the most part, I'd rather pretty much rather cut all countries off from federal aid. If Eastern Mennonite Missions, or whatever, want to send supplies to Isreal or Libya, fine. But don't make loans with interest using federal tax dollars, and don't use the Army to ensure that private banks get their loans paid back. If a bank invests in a war, let the face the risks of loosing the investment. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 16:41:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Phil Brutsche) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:41:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net> References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> <1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu> <75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <1000244464.3b9e84f08a18d@tux.creighton.edu> Quoting Mike Hebel : > PB> Well, considering that I'm in Omaha and Air Force One (complete with > the > PB> President) landed at the airbase about 5 miles south of where I'm > sitting... > > Wow! Might as well paint a bulls-eye on the top of your computer. ;-) It's Win2k Pro. I do *not* have a problem with that :) > Seriously, these attacks were planned carefully. I think we're seeing > the outcome of a year or more of planning. Damn straight it was well planned. > I don't think we'll se any more attacks within at least the next 24 hours > unless someone is _looking_ to openly start a war with us. You mean they're not now? World Wars, leaving millions dead, have been started over less. Phil From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 16:56:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:56:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] My take In-Reply-To: <15262.35026.388496.771232@senator.nodewarrior.org> References: <20010911213047.YZUA22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> <15262.35026.388496.771232@senator.nodewarrior.org> Message-ID: <20010911175609.A15713@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 04:57:38PM -0500, Dan Debertin wrote: > It would, however, be interesting to explore a way (biometrics, > maybe?) of ensuring that the pilot(s) are the *only* people who can > pilot the plane. Perhaps this never occurs, but in movie plots, but what if the pilots are dead? There needs to be a way for someone else to fly the plane with instructions from flight control. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 16:57:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Dan Debertin) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:57:38 -0500 Subject: [geeks] My take In-Reply-To: <20010911213047.YZUA22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> References: <20010911213047.YZUA22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: <15262.35026.388496.771232@senator.nodewarrior.org> Mike Dombrowski writes: [ ... jingoistic, belligerent ranting ... ] > Secondly, put the planes on computerized flight control. Override > would be from the control towers only or by a code inputed by the > pilot. Pressing a hijack button would disallow the pilot to disable > the computer. I think this is a really bad idea. Pilots need a way to react to things that come up -- this means making sudden course adjustments to avoid nasty weather, other planes, etc. I'd like to know that the pilot is in control, not the computer. Most pilots that I've spoken with prefer Boeing planes over Airbus for this exact reason -- Boeing planes, while they have autopilot, supposedly make it much easier for the pilot to take control of the plane should a sudden correction be necessary. (IANAP, though) It would, however, be interesting to explore a way (biometrics, maybe?) of ensuring that the pilot(s) are the *only* people who can pilot the plane. What an awful day. Dan -- Dan Debertin airboss at nodewarrior.org www.nodewarrior.org From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 17:01:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:01:15 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <000f01c13b03$1039d210$0501000a@laboffice> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Zach Malone wrote: > Im just happy that I am within vaporization range of DC, and that I am > no longer living in the area that would be hit with heavy fallout. You have > to look at these things with the proper perspective. > Not making lite of the situation, just pointing out that things could be > worse. > Zach Ah, living ... Wargames style. xy ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 17:01:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:01:34 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> <1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu> <75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net> <1000244464.3b9e84f08a18d@tux.creighton.edu> <104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <20010911180134.B15713@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 05:03:40PM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > My wife called me with horror in her voice when she watched it on TV > and was extremely happy that I'm 32 years old and less likely to be > drafted if such a thing comes to pass. I am prime draft age (I couldn't get into the military if I wanted to, but apparently for the draft the physical standards are dropped), and my mother was expressing concern about myself being drafted. Where does this come from? Are pretty much all terrorist nations really small places that could be easily obliterated using only conventional weapons if we so desired? Further, why do people talk about there having had to be a large network of dedicated people to pull this off? Why couldn't a small group of only 2 people per plane do it? Aren't planes hijacked all the time by only one or two people? If there are less the 20 people, this would easily explain why the intelligence community failed to provide warning than other arguments do. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 17:03:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:03:40 -0500 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <1000244464.3b9e84f08a18d@tux.creighton.edu> References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> <1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu> <75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net> <1000244464.3b9e84f08a18d@tux.creighton.edu> Message-ID: <104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> >> I don't think we'll se any more attacks within at least the next 24 hours >> unless someone is _looking_ to openly start a war with us. PB> You mean they're not now? World Wars, leaving millions dead, have been PB> started over less. My speculation is that they think that America will be "Politically Correct" and back down. I don't think they realize what kind of hornet's nest they've stirred up. We Americans have never been nice or easily stoppable when we actually become united about something. I _do_ think, however unfortunate that it is, that there will be a declaration of war within the next days or so - perhaps even tonight if I know Dubya - and we'll actually be at war with someone. My wife called me with horror in her voice when she watched it on TV and was extremely happy that I'm 32 years old and less likely to be drafted if such a thing comes to pass. Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 17:07:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:07:00 +0000 Subject: [geeks] Lottery (was informal survey) Message-ID: <20010911220701.HZGG1680.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Not any more. NYC 9/11/01. They ain't gonna let you detonate ANYTHING now! > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 06:12:08AM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > > One of my goals in life will be to acquire enough land so that I can > > detonate whatever the hell I want without too much trouble from the feds. > > I've always wanted to see what a dump-truck full of fertilizer can do... > > but I know the EPA would kill me for "dumping" all that diesel fuel... > > April 19th, 1995. I lived in Oklahoma City at the time. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 17:08:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And now out of all of this...gas prices have quadrupled at least. Fucking profiteers. From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 17:26:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:26:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Mike Hebel wrote: > My wife called me with horror in her voice when she watched it on TV > and was extremely happy that I'm 32 years old and less likely to be > drafted if such a thing comes to pass. Oh shit.... I only filed my Selective Service card this year in case I needed loans for school... I'm 22... and desperately in need of a passport.... ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 17:30:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:30:04 +0000 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. Message-ID: <20010911223005.LKSW8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> I work in a high school across the Hudson river from the (former) towers. Many of my students have friends and relatives who work in New York City. Today I was playing psychologist and social worker. Some students actually saw the second tower fall from the classroom window. They called off school for tomorrow and maybe the next day. People are being brought over the river by boat to Jersey hospitals, will be by tunnel and bridge when they are cleared by the authorities. Somebody opened a HUGE can of whoop-ass today. The only thing I can really say is two words....Pearl Harbor. Sorry, but it has been a rough day. > My thoughts go out to those killed and injured on the attacks on the > World Trade Center towers (one of which has entirely collapsed) and > the Pentagon and Mall. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 17:32:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:32:32 +0000 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. Message-ID: <20010911223232.BYNH28026.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Yes. I saw some of it from my school. I still can't believe it (correction, don't want to believe it). > I understand that both towers are now gone. Is this really happening? > > -Mike > > Bill Bradford wrote: > > > My thoughts go out to those killed and injured on the attacks on the > > World Trade Center towers (one of which has entirely collapsed) and > > the Pentagon and Mall. > > > > Bill > > > > -- > > Bill Bradford > > mrbill at mrbill.net > > Austin, TX > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > -- > -Mike > *------------------------------------------------------------------* > *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * > *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * > *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * > *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 17:35:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:35:19 -0500 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <196383621696.20010911173519@crosswinds.net> JS> And now out of all of this...gas prices have quadrupled at least. JS> Fucking profiteers. Hopefully that will last about as long as it takes someone to get on a TV camera and point out that no refinery was destroyed, a good portion of the financial stuff was moved out of the trade towers due to the _last_ bombing, and "In the midst of America's sorrow and horror the gas companies has raised prices!". However I can see it taking a couple of days to drop again so I'm kind of glad I get at least 20+ mpg on one of my cars at least. Maybe I'll let my wife take my car to work tomorrow. Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 17:49:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:49:44 EDT Subject: [geeks] Computerized flying Message-ID: <20010911225007.TIR22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >> It would, however, be interesting to explore a way (biometrics, >> maybe?) of ensuring that the pilot(s) are the *only* people who can >> pilot the plane. > >Perhaps this never occurs, but in movie plots, but what if the pilots are >dead? There needs to be a way for someone else to fly the plane with >instructions from flight control. See my comment about computerized flight control. If the pilot is dead or incapacitated, the plane lands itself. Or ground control can take over. Also, to the comment about pilots needing to make changes, that's why I suggested a code or something. I think my solution would be pretty good. Not the best and I'm not claiming that I'm an expert at planes and their operation. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 17:51:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:51:12 EDT Subject: [geeks] Afghanistan conflict Message-ID: <20010911225135.UGG22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >Looks like you may have gotten your wish. Defense Secretary says it's not us. Might be a faction trying to take control out of fear of US repartations or for other reasons. Lotsa people aren't exactly "Taliban Friendly" in Afghanistan. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 17:59:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:59:54 EDT Subject: [geeks] My take Message-ID: <20010911230017.ZCW22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >> attempts to get those responsible. We need to fight terror with terror, >> We need to send a message that states who support terrorism will not be >> tolerated. Our retribution needs to be so intense and horrific that >> people who commit these acts wll think twice. A couple cruise missles >> and a smart bomb run or two won't accomplish anything at all. > >Perhaps war is nescesarry (I hope not), but it certainly wouldn't do to go >to war for revenge. Revenge starts are unacceptable cycle of blood. Just >trying to install terror in other people rather than effect a specific >change in government is about as bad. >War should only be used to force another country to permenantly and >drastically change. Failure to do so is to have wasted lives. I think The war I suggest is a war to do just that. Taking out the leadership of Afghanistan, taking out terrorist elements and bombing parts of it would most certainally change the country permenantly. Call it a war of revenge or whatever you want but I believe quite strongly that drastic actions but be taken to set an example. In cases of hundreds of people I think that surgical strikes and diplomatic means are the best options. But when you start talking about 10s of thousands of people... >that pretty much everyone who died in Desert Storm was completely wasted >since no apparent change has really happened in Iraq. Saddam still sits >there giving every appearance of trying to rebuild enough to fight another >war. > >Likewise Vietnam was a waste since no change was affected against the >North Vietnamese. Yes, I feel that both were wasted efforts. "If you're going to do something, do it right" >On the other hand, in the WWs, Japan and Germany were forcibly changed and >rebuilt with virtually no remnants of the old evil. Were the WWs worth >it? Looking at the horrors conducted by the Germans and Japanese, >possibly. But we didn't enter WWI out of a sense of nobleness, but rather >to protect our shipping routes, and I can't say that we were that much >better about WWII. But, these are the details that doctorates are made What else is war than an instrument to gain or protect property? Either directly in the case of WWI and WWII or indirectly in the case of Desert Storm and Vietnam. >of. All I can say is that in retrospect, the endings to the WWs were much >more satisfactory, and the main difference is that the enemy nations were >completely changed in ways that we controlled. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:04:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:04:49 -0500 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: References: <104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <20010911180449.D23360@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 10:26:45PM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > Oh shit.... I only filed my Selective Service card this year in case I > needed loans for school... I'm 22... and desperately in need of a > passport.... Passport? So you can run and not be drafted? Coward. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:05:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 00:05:33 +0100 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> <1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu> <75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net> <1000244464.3b9e84f08a18d@tux.creighton.edu> <104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> <20010911180134.B15713@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <013d01c13b16$552b39a0$0301a8c0@chimp> I'm reading up from the bottom here (my cable's been borked this evening) but.... As a non-US citizen type my outsider's view is that any form of proper war - and hence a draft - are highly unlikely. This isn't a conventional enemy. It's terrorism/guerrilla warfare, a large conventional military force doesn't seem that useful as a retaliatory force. I know it's extremely early days but I've been reasonably impressed with Bush's restraint (so far). For a man who took a while to "back down" from China he's been extremely controlled so far. I just hope it stays this way. I'm vaguely getting a grip on the situation now. I was appalled at what I heard on the radio and read on the 'net while at work. When I got home and watched some of the situation on TV I had to switch off and listen to some soothing music for a while. Now I go to read the rest of my mail and catch up on the news. Will. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua D Boyd" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] oh my god. > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 05:03:40PM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > > My wife called me with horror in her voice when she watched it on TV > > and was extremely happy that I'm 32 years old and less likely to be > > drafted if such a thing comes to pass. > > I am prime draft age (I couldn't get into the military if I wanted > to, but apparently for the draft the physical standards are dropped), and > my mother was expressing concern about myself being drafted. > > Where does this come from? Are pretty much all terrorist nations really > small places that could be easily obliterated using only conventional > weapons if we so desired? > > Further, why do people talk about there having had to be a large network > of dedicated people to pull this off? Why couldn't a small group of only > 2 people per plane do it? Aren't planes hijacked all the time by only one > or two people? If there are less the 20 people, this would easily explain > why the intelligence community failed to provide warning than other > arguments do. > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:14:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 11 Sep 2001 16:14:19 -0700 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <20010911180134.B15713@cs.millersville.edu> References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> <1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu> <75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net> <1000244464.3b9e84f08a18d@tux.creighton.edu> <104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> <20010911180134.B15713@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <1000250060.2912.2.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Tue, 2001-09-11 at 15:01, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 05:03:40PM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > > My wife called me with horror in her voice when she watched it on TV > > and was extremely happy that I'm 32 years old and less likely to be > > drafted if such a thing comes to pass. > > I am prime draft age (I couldn't get into the military if I wanted > to, but apparently for the draft the physical standards are dropped), and To the best of my knowledge, this is not true. I haven't confirmed with a gov't agency, but I'm fairly sure. > my mother was expressing concern about myself being drafted. > > Where does this come from? Are pretty much all terrorist nations really > small places that could be easily obliterated using only conventional > weapons if we so desired? Pretty much ALL (not all of them, but very close) nations are small enough that they would fall to the US in a conventional war. I don't believe that nuclear weapons will, or should, ever be used in an act of agression again. Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:18:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Amy) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:18:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <20010911181457.W1805-100000@feeding.frenzy.com> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Mike Hebel wrote: > My speculation is that they think that America will be "Politically > Correct" and back down. I don't think they realize what kind of > hornet's nest they've stirred up. i think you're right. > I _do_ think, however unfortunate that it is, that there will be a > declaration of war within the next days or so - perhaps even tonight > if I know Dubya - and we'll actually be at war with someone. > > My wife called me with horror in her voice when she watched it on TV > and was extremely happy that I'm 32 years old and less likely to be > drafted if such a thing comes to pass. i have relatives who work for the government. when i woke up this afternoon and found out what happened, i called their house and my uncle didnt recognize my voice. thats how fucking shook up i was (pardon the language).... --a From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:18:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:18:13 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> References: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: <20010911181812.E23360@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:18:18PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > "Hijacked with knives", WITH KNIVES. A decently strong lockable door on > our planes would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. A locked door doesent stop "open the door or I start killing people". Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:18:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:18:18 EDT Subject: [geeks] Hijacked Message-ID: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> "Hijacked with knives", WITH KNIVES. A decently strong lockable door on our planes would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:28:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:28:07 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> <20010911181812.E23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <001201c13b19$6a621ac0$0501000a@laboffice> That was what I had been thinking. A knife is any bladed weapon under (6?) inches. You can buy ceramic knifes with plastic and rubber handels for under a hundred bucks. It kind of surprises me that this has not happened sooner. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] Hijacked > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:18:18PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > > "Hijacked with knives", WITH KNIVES. A decently strong lockable door on > > our planes would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. > > A locked door doesent stop "open the door or I start killing people". > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:29:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:29:19 -0500 Subject: [geeks] All Sun NYC Employees Okay Message-ID: <20010911182918.F23360@mrbill.net> >From a friend @ Sun.. ------------- Begin Forwarded Message ------------- Subject: All Sun NYC Employees Okay From: John Driscoll Date: 11 Sep 2001 09:55:43 All, I have just heard that HR has confirmed that all of our Manhattan Sun employees have been accounted for and are safe. We are located in the 2nd building that got hit on the 25th and 26th floors. It appears that everyone from the 33rd floor down got out safely. John Driscoll ------------- End Forwarded Message ------------- -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:29:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 11 Sep 2001 16:29:22 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <001201c13b19$6a621ac0$0501000a@laboffice> References: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> <20010911181812.E23360@mrbill.net> <001201c13b19$6a621ac0$0501000a@laboffice> Message-ID: <1000250963.2912.11.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Tue, 2001-09-11 at 16:28, Zach Malone wrote: > That was what I had been thinking. A knife is any bladed weapon under (6?) [snip] You can't carry a knife onto a plane if the blade is longer than 3.5 or 4 inches (can't remember which). That doesn't mean that you can do it, as they'll let you through US security with damn near a short sword if you show it to them. Airports overseas are a little pickier about these things. They even confiscated my Victorinox multi-tool (think "leatherman", only made of nicer steel). Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:36:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:36:48 -0500 Subject: [geeks] War & economy... Message-ID: <159387311700.20010911183648@crosswinds.net> Y'know - it's a sick commentary but a war _is_ one of the ways to fix a flagging economy. I can't see anyone killing 10k people to make that happen though. Some part of me can't believe that bad of people. Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:40:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:40:14 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: References: <104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <20010911194014.A17487@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 10:26:45PM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Mike Hebel wrote: > > My wife called me with horror in her voice when she watched it on TV > > and was extremely happy that I'm 32 years old and less likely to be > > drafted if such a thing comes to pass. > > Oh shit.... I only filed my Selective Service card this year in case I > needed loans for school... I'm 22... and desperately in need of a > passport.... You could always try putting on a lot of weight. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:46:21 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:46:21 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> References: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: <20010911194621.B17487@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:18:18PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > "Hijacked with knives", WITH KNIVES. A decently strong lockable door on > our planes would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. Think this. Terrorist: Open the door and let us fly to cuba or we will kill hostages. Pilot: Cuba is better than dead people. OK. (click) Terrorist: Sucka, we 0wn j00. f33r u$ a$ w3 cr4$h 7h3 WTC. w3 4re '7337! Pilot: darn. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:51:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:51:06 EDT Subject: [geeks] Hijacked Message-ID: <20010911235131.CBJD22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >> "Hijacked with knives", WITH KNIVES. A decently strong lockable door on >> our planes would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. > >A locked door doesent stop "open the door or I start killing people". No, but it would most certain stop "crash plane and kill thousands." I think that any sane person, given the choice between having all the people on the plane killed and having all the people on a plane killed and many thousands more die would choose the first. Or a door would give the pilot time to contact ground support and tell them what is going on. At which point if the ground can make a decision. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 18:57:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:57:20 EDT Subject: [geeks] oh my god. Message-ID: <20010911235747.CEVK22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >As a non-US citizen type my outsider's view is that any form of proper war - >and hence a draft - are highly unlikely. This isn't a conventional enemy. >It's terrorism/guerrilla warfare, a large conventional military force >doesn't seem that useful as a retaliatory force. IF it's bin Laden which more officials are saying it probably is, then it's a small terrorist force supported by a government. In my mind an attack by a foreign nation directly and an attack by terrorists supported by a foreign nation are no different. A normal army is used to take out this government. From watching CNN and other stations it seems that this is the opinion of our top leaders. I'll get names it people want em but McCain just said the same thing. 22,000 was the most number of Americans killed on a single day. I hope to all that is good that the number dead here does not approach this and that my previous comment will be incorrect but I fear the worse. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:00:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:00:27 EDT Subject: [geeks] Carbombs Message-ID: <20010912000053.CGOT22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Anybody got any links to the rumored car bombs? I've seen nothing conrete on them. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:02:31 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:02:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Computerized flying In-Reply-To: <20010911225007.TIR22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: > See my comment about computerized flight control. If the pilot is dead > or incapacitated, the plane lands itself. Or ground control can take > over. Also, to the comment about pilots needing to make changes, that's > why I suggested a code or something. I think my solution would be > pretty good. Not the best and I'm not claiming that I'm an expert at > planes and their operation. This sounds quite possible, with the advent of entirely glass cockpits. (757, 767, 777, Airbus and many more being retrofitted). Just pipe all the control's and gagues and whatnot back to a ground control center incase of emergency. |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:06:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D.A. Muran-de Assereto) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:06:03 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010911235131.CBJD22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: If I remember correctly, all of the cockpit doors on airliners are lockable, and only open from the inside. I believe current FAA regs require the cockpit door to be closed and locked while the aircraft is airborne. This does not mean that the crew complied, of course, or that the door was not forced open through threats to the passengers or cabin crew. There are many ways that an aircrew can let the ground know they are being hijacked, the most widely known being changing the IFF transponder code, as has been shown on a few movies. And as far as ridiculous hijackings go, back during the Reagan years a Cuban expatriate hijacked a commercial airliner back to Cuba using a GALLON OF GASOLINE and a lighter. Dave Muran-de Assereto > -----Original Message----- > From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf > Of Mike Dombrowski > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 19:51 > To: geeks at sunhelp.org > Subject: Re: [geeks] Hijacked > > > >> "Hijacked with knives", WITH KNIVES. A decently strong lockable door > on > >> our planes would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. > > > >A locked door doesent stop "open the door or I start killing people". > > No, but it would most certain stop "crash plane and kill thousands." I > think that any sane person, given the choice between having all the > people on the plane killed and having all the people on a plane killed > and many thousands more die would choose the first. Or a door would > give the pilot time to contact ground support and tell them what is > going on. At which point if the ground can make a decision. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:11:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:11:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] (no subject) Message-ID: Self lighted glass parking lot space avaliable! Thats all I have to say about this. |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:14:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:14:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > If I remember correctly, all of the cockpit doors on airliners > are lockable, and only open from the inside. I believe current > FAA regs require the cockpit door to be closed and locked while > the aircraft is airborne. > This does not mean that the crew complied, of course, or that the > door was not forced open through threats to the passengers or > cabin crew. The crew would surely have enough time/brains to hit the PANIC/HIJACK button that alerts the FAA and others. The senerio I heard, the one I see mostlikely. Someone bumrushed the cockpit and shot the crew before they could do anything. |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:22:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D.A. Muran-de Assereto) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:22:59 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Reportedly, all the hijackers had were knives and letter openers, according to Ashcroft. These were early-morning flights with few passengers, by all accounts, so I suspect that the cockpit was left unsecured. According to the CNN reporter's account, the hijackers forced the crew and passengers to the rear of the aircraft and then locked them out of the cockpit. Dave Muran-de Assereto > -----Original Message----- > From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf > Of Benjamin Kelley > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 20:15 > To: geeks at sunhelp.org > Subject: RE: [geeks] Hijacked > > > > If I remember correctly, all of the cockpit doors on airliners > > are lockable, and only open from the inside. I believe current > > FAA regs require the cockpit door to be closed and locked while > > the aircraft is airborne. > > This does not mean that the crew complied, of course, or that the > > door was not forced open through threats to the passengers or > > cabin crew. > The crew would surely have enough time/brains to hit the PANIC/HIJACK > button that alerts the FAA and others. > The senerio I heard, the one I see mostlikely. > Someone bumrushed the cockpit and shot the crew before they could do > anything. > > > |=================================================| > Benjamin L. Kelley > Birch Telecom > Unix Systems Administrator > Email: bkelley at birch.net > Phone: 816-300-1907 > CellPhone: 816-582-8462 > Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 > Web: HTTP://www.birch.com > |=================================================| > > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:29:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 01:29:56 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> <20010911194621.B17487@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <002b01c13b22$7add12c0$0301a8c0@chimp> From: "Joshua D Boyd" > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:18:18PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > > "Hijacked with knives", WITH KNIVES. A decently strong lockable door on > > our planes would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. > > Think this. > > Terrorist: Open the door and let us fly to cuba or we will kill hostages. > Pilot: Cuba is better than dead people. OK. > (click) > Terrorist: Sucka, we 0wn j00. f33r u$ a$ w3 cr4$h 7h3 WTC. w3 4re '7337! > Pilot: darn. Josh, this made me smile and I feel that I really shouldn't on a day like this. But thank you anyway. :) (If a ':)' is appropriate.) From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:32:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 01:32:36 +0100 Subject: [geeks] (no subject) References: Message-ID: <002c01c13b23$4203bd40$0301a8c0@chimp> Dude, please. I've only just got over my childhood nightmares about the whole "World blowing the shit out of itself" thing. I'm off to watch the GWB speech now. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Kelley" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 1:11 AM Subject: [geeks] (no subject) > Self lighted glass parking lot space avaliable! > Thats all I have to say about this. From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:34:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Adam Lassek) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:34:09 -0500 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net> References: <1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu> <75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <01091119340900.12800@riff> On Tuesday 11 September 2001 14:52, you wrote: > PB> Quoting Mike Hebel : > >> If you're close to any military/commercial targets now would be a good > >> time to visit friends in places like Wyoming. > > PB> Well, considering that I'm in Omaha and Air Force One (complete with > the PB> President) landed at the airbase about 5 miles south of where I'm > sitting... > > Wow! Might as well paint a bulls-eye on the top of your computer. ;-) You think that's bad, Air Force One flew right over my house when it took off. I live a couple of minutes from the base :-/ > > Seriously, these attacks were planned carefully. I think we're seeing > the outcome of a year or more of planning. I don't think we'll se > any more attacks within at least the next 24 hours unless someone is > _looking_ to openly start a war with us. > > Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net > > http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html > > http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:48:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 00:48:36 +0000 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. Message-ID: <20010912004836.MZRE8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> It would fit if the passengers knew what happened and tried to take back the plane. Yeah, I know, a real wild idea, but after seeing what happened in CA after the last earthquake and what little is of is coming out of NYC, it makes me feel better with that idea. I work right across the river in Jersey City. Sorry, but I had to deal with students who may have had relatives working there and I'm burned out. > I work at the US Southern Command. Although there's been no activity > down here in Miami, the TV news is full of concern, of course. People > are worried about strikes against the nuclear power facilities and > such. > Just a suspicion, but I bet the PA crash was an error; if it was a terr > attack, it's almost anti-climactic after the WTC and the Pentagon. Perhaps > something went wrong in their plans. Of course, it could just be a tragic > coincidence as well, since it really doesn't seem to fit. > > > Dave Muran-de Assereto > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:49:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (William Barnett-Lewis) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:49:11 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Re: geeks digest, Vol 1 #437 - 18 msgs References: <20010911233902.4CF1011BC2@ohno.mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3B9EB107.DE151150@mailbag.com> geeks-request at sunhelp.org wrote: > > Send geeks mailing list submissions to > geeks at sunhelp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > geeks-request at sunhelp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > geeks-admin at sunhelp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of geeks digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: oh my god. (Joshua D Boyd) > 2. Re[6]: [geeks] oh my god. (Kris Kirby) > 3. Re: oh my god. (wa2egp at att.net) > 4. Re: oh my god. (wa2egp at att.net) > 5. Re[4]: [geeks] oh my god. (Mike Hebel) > 6. Computerized flying (Mike Dombrowski) > 7. Afghanistan conflict (Mike Dombrowski) > 8. Re: My take (Mike Dombrowski) > 9. Re: oh my god. (Will Mc Donald) > 10. Re: oh my god. (Bill Bradford) > 11. Re[6]: [geeks] oh my god. (Amy) > 12. Hijacked (Mike Dombrowski) > 13. Re: oh my god. (Gregory Leblanc) > 14. Re: Hijacked (Bill Bradford) > 15. Re: Hijacked (Zach Malone) > 16. All Sun NYC Employees Okay (Bill Bradford) > 17. Re: Hijacked (Gregory Leblanc) > 18. War & economy... (Mike Hebel) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > From: Joshua D Boyd > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:01:34 -0400 > To: geeks at sunhelp.org > Subject: Re: [geeks] oh my god. > Reply-To: geeks at sunhelp.org > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 05:03:40PM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > > My wife called me with horror in her voice when she watched it on TV > > and was extremely happy that I'm 32 years old and less likely to be > > drafted if such a thing comes to pass. > > I am prime draft age (I couldn't get into the military if I wanted > to, but apparently for the draft the physical standards are dropped), and > my mother was expressing concern about myself being drafted. Actually the draft is simpler. If you can't you will be 4F'd. > Where does this come from? Are pretty much all terrorist nations really > small places that could be easily obliterated using only conventional > weapons if we so desired? No. Look at the history of the British and the Soviets in Afganistan. If we make the mistake of just thrashing out, these people will have died for nothing. > Further, why do people talk about there having had to be a large network > of dedicated people to pull this off? Why couldn't a small group of only > 2 people per plane do it? Aren't planes hijacked all the time by only one > or two people? If there are less the 20 people, this would easily explain > why the intelligence community failed to provide warning than other > arguments do. This is at least 1000 people in concerted effort. No proof, just my military experiances. I can't say any more than that. > -- > Joshua D. Boyd (Snick.) > Oh shit.... I only filed my Selective Service card this year in case I > needed loans for school... I'm 22... and desperately in need of a > passport.... No, You are in need of a pair between your legs. Get one or deal with it. > ----- > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > | William -- You better watch out What you wish for; It better be worth it So much to die for. Courtney Love From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:50:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:50:42 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: geeks digest, Vol 1 #437 - 18 msgs In-Reply-To: <3B9EB107.DE151150@mailbag.com> References: <20010911233902.4CF1011BC2@ohno.mrbill.net> <3B9EB107.DE151150@mailbag.com> Message-ID: <20010911205042.A18576@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:49:11PM -0500, William Barnett-Lewis wrote: > > I am prime draft age (I couldn't get into the military if I wanted > > to, but apparently for the draft the physical standards are dropped), and > > my mother was expressing concern about myself being drafted. > > Actually the draft is simpler. If you can't you will be 4F'd. Err, what does 4F'd mean? Wasn't around when the draft still was (at I wasn't around long). -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:54:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:54:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <002c01c13b23$4203bd40$0301a8c0@chimp> Message-ID: > Dude, please. I've only just got over my childhood nightmares about the > whole "World blowing the shit out of itself" thing. And your saying the same thing can't happen today? Imagine how "OUR" children feel. It's just as much a reality today as it was in the 50s-80s. Even more so today. We only had larger countries to worry about back then(USSR and China). Now we have hundreds of countries who have nukes and who could give a rats ass about killing several million( if not more ) people. Atleast the USSR, China, USA had enough sence to not do anything. During the cold war, people fled to the US Land of oppertunity and freedom and whatnot. These countries now see us as enemys and have no problem killing our people. Did the russians ever fly planes into building in downtown NewYork? Did they hijack planes and kill innocent civilians? Did they ever bomb embassys, or kill americans in the streets? You dont have to worry about bombs dropping from the sky as much anymore. You have to worry about someone who is willing to give their life to god just to kill innocent people. |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 19:55:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 00:55:05 +0000 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... Message-ID: <20010912005508.NBSW8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Somebody else already declared war...on us. Whatever happens, I hope it ends quickly. > I was wondering what Bush was going to be able to do to make himself appear a > strong president. A sick opportunity but one that will probably not > be laid aside. > > McCain's on ABC calling for us to go to war with whoever did this. > > *sigh* I hope my daughter won't have to grow up during a "real" war. > > > Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net > > http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html > > http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:04:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 01:04:23 +0000 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... Message-ID: <20010912010425.IVFV26461.mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Pearl Harbor wasn't reason for war either. This time, it just isn't a country. Some countries/people absolutely hate the USA and what we stand for. Thye would be willing to help any one who would do this. It is going to be a rough one and it isn't going to be a war like any we have been involved with before. I've heard it discussed that in the next war, the enemy will be within 20 feet of you behind a wall in the same building as you. Guess I have to warm up Doom/Quake. > It is a bit early to talk about war isn't it? I mean, I would think that > we should figure out who is responsible, then consider what reaction is > reasonable, war possibly being one of the actions to consider. > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:05:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (koyote) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010911181812.E23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:18:18PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > > "Hijacked with knives", WITH KNIVES. A decently strong lockable door on > > our planes would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. > > A locked door doesent stop "open the door or I start killing people". Bill- mabe it's time to allow armed citizens (those with CCW permits or e5 and above military personell) to carry on airplanes. I doubt this would have worked against on averagely armed texan. -Christof (excuse the email, I'm stuck off site with a broke down car > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:08:31 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 01:08:31 +0000 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... Message-ID: <20010912010833.NGDV8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Then what do you suggest? > The die is cast. I can't see any response less than war being sufficient > to satify American Bloodlust over these events. > > - Rob From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:11:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:11:11 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <001201c13b19$6a621ac0$0501000a@laboffice> References: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> <20010911181812.E23360@mrbill.net> <001201c13b19$6a621ac0$0501000a@laboffice> Message-ID: <20010911201111.H23360@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:28:07PM -0400, Zach Malone wrote: > That was what I had been thinking. A knife is any bladed weapon under (6?) > inches. You can buy ceramic knifes with plastic and rubber handels for > under a hundred bucks. It kind of surprises me that this has not happened > sooner. You can legally carry folding knives under 6" on an airplane, anyway. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:12:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:12:00 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010911235131.CBJD22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> References: <20010911235131.CBJD22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: <20010911201200.I23360@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:51:06PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > No, but it would most certain stop "crash plane and kill thousands." I > think that any sane person, given the choice between having all the > people on the plane killed and having all the people on a plane killed > and many thousands more die would choose the first. Or a door would > give the pilot time to contact ground support and tell them what is > going on. At which point if the ground can make a decision. They have no way of knowing what the intentions of the hijackers were - think about it - most of them will be like "take me to cuba". Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:12:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:12:12 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Carbombs References: <20010912000053.CGOT22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: <006201c13b27$f4a59460$0501000a@laboffice> The car bomb outside of the state department turned out to be a false rumor, as did the supposed fire outside of the white house. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Dombrowski" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 8:00 PM Subject: [geeks] Carbombs > Anybody got any links to the rumored car bombs? I've seen nothing > conrete on them. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:12:31 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:12:31 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010911194621.B17487@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> <20010911194621.B17487@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010911201231.J23360@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:46:21PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > Think this. > Terrorist: Open the door and let us fly to cuba or we will kill hostages. > Pilot: Cuba is better than dead people. OK. > (click) > Terrorist: Sucka, we 0wn j00. f33r u$ a$ w3 cr4$h 7h3 WTC. w3 4re '7337! > Pilot: darn. For once, josh is right. Sadly. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:13:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:13:18 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> <1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu> <75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net> <1000244464.3b9e84f08a18d@tux.creighton.edu> <104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <053001c13b28$1eb87420$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > My wife called me with horror in her voice when she watched it on TV > and was extremely happy that I'm 32 years old and less likely to be > drafted if such a thing comes to pass. > My wife has expressed that she will "break both your legs if I need to". She's knows me - I feel very passionately that there should be action taken. A side note - the local gun shop was *packed* as I passed by it on my way home from work today. Literaly, cars were parked on the street in front. There's no doubt that a lot of folks are getting ready for something... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:16:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:16:42 -0500 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <053001c13b28$1eb87420$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> <1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu> <75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net> <1000244464.3b9e84f08a18d@tux.creighton.edu> <104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> <053001c13b28$1eb87420$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010911201642.K23360@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 09:13:18PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > A side note - the local gun shop was *packed* as I passed by it on my way > home from work today. Literaly, cars were parked on the street in front. > There's no doubt that a lot of folks are getting ready for something... All the local gas stations were packed today as well, and the special edition of the local paper sold out 20K copies in less than an hour. Local surplus store sold over 50 gas masks, it was reported. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:17:37 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:17:37 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010911201231.J23360@mrbill.net> References: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> <20010911194621.B17487@cs.millersville.edu> <20010911201231.J23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010911211737.A18720@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 08:12:31PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > For once, josh is right. Sadly. I have my moments. I prefer they not happen during times of tragedy, but I suppose one takes them when they can. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:22:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:22:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: <196383621696.20010911173519@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <054601c13b29$5b4ceaf0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > However I can see it taking a couple of days to drop again so I'm kind > of glad I get at least 20+ mpg on one of my cars at least. Maybe I'll > let my wife take my car to work tomorrow. > As it is - my wife and I fill our cars once every two weeks at most. My daily commute is a 15 mile round trip - my wife doesn't work. However - the next car we buy is going to be something else small and economical. The Ford Taurus may go away, and be replaced by a new Cooper Mini S - should look good in the driveway next to the PT Cruiser... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:29:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:29:13 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: <055c01c13b2a$57f258d0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > "Hijacked with knives", WITH KNIVES. A decently strong lockable door on > our planes would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. > I recently was drooling over the Cabelas catalog, Boker Knives makes a very sweet looking ceramic knife. It's been a long time, but I've also seen fiberglass and plastic knives - both with razor sharp edges. Knives exist that could be passed through metal detectors - no doubt about it. You can't X-Ray everyone though, and these are risks you take for having certain freedoms. My wife would like to see flourascopes (sp?) at airport terminals - not sure that will happen.... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:29:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:29:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <056401c13b2a$c9b76870$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net><1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu><75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net><1000244464.3b9e84f08a18d@tux.creighton.edu><104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> <20010911180134.B15713@cs.millersville.edu> <1000250060.2912.2.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> <056401c13b2a$c9b76870$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010911212916.A19137@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 09:32:24PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > I don't honestly know. My Dad has severe asthma - but was drafted into the > Navy during the VietNam action. On the other hand, one of my uncles > (mothers side) was refused entrance into the army due to asthma - he > volunteered though. My dad wasn't allowed into the AF due to knee problems, but he too volunteered. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:32:24 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:32:24 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net><1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu><75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net><1000244464.3b9e84f08a18d@tux.creighton.edu><104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> <20010911180134.B15713@cs.millersville.edu> <1000250060.2912.2.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Message-ID: <056401c13b2a$c9b76870$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > I am prime draft age (I couldn't get into the military if I wanted > > to, but apparently for the draft the physical standards are dropped), and > > To the best of my knowledge, this is not true. I haven't confirmed with > a gov't agency, but I'm fairly sure. > I don't honestly know. My Dad has severe asthma - but was drafted into the Navy during the VietNam action. On the other hand, one of my uncles (mothers side) was refused entrance into the army due to asthma - he volunteered though. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:34:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:34:27 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> <20010911181812.E23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <056801c13b2b$12ea44e0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:18:18PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > > "Hijacked with knives", WITH KNIVES. A decently strong lockable door on > > our planes would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. > > A locked door doesent stop "open the door or I start killing people". The risk - I suppose. Personally, I would rather take my chances with crazed knife-wielding terrorists - than one at the controls of a plane. What's worse? That's for each of us to decide. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:34:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:34:56 -0500 Subject: [geeks] circuit city In-Reply-To: <20010911192746.R2437@zilla.nu> References: <20010911192746.R2437@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010911203456.L23360@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:27:46PM -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > Circuit City take returns on cash purchases without receipt? Probably if you're exchanging for something else or store credit.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:36:25 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:36:25 -0500 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <056401c13b2a$c9b76870$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net><1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu><75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net><1000244464.3b9e84f08a18d@tux.creighton.edu><104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> <20010911180134.B15713@cs.millersville.edu> <1000250060.2912.2.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> <056401c13b2a$c9b76870$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010911203625.M23360@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 09:32:24PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > I don't honestly know. My Dad has severe asthma - but was drafted into the > Navy during the VietNam action. On the other hand, one of my uncles > (mothers side) was refused entrance into the army due to asthma - he > volunteered though. I was told when I was 17 and ready to go into the Marines that the current standards mean that if you have had ANY asthsmatic symptoms past the age of 12, you're ineligible for any service in any branch of the armed forces. They dont want guys dying in Basic Training. Ah well, i was later diagnosed with tracheal stenosis and about seven months ago with obstructive sleep apnea. Never would have made it anyway. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:37:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 01:37:17 +0000 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... Message-ID: <20010912013717.UBAX6924.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Some Democratic presidents were also in that position too. Funny how that gets forgotten. > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > There's a ton of opinion out there about this. Most of it boils down to > > "someone's gotta pay the ultimate price". > > Wrap your minds around this: The 41st president was considered weak until > we almost turned Baghdad into a parking lot. Now the 43rd is in the same > position. Eerie, no? > > ----- > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > | > ------------------------------------------------------- > "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:40:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:40:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <055c01c13b2a$57f258d0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: > Knives exist that could be passed through metal detectors - no doubt about > it. You can't X-Ray everyone though, and these are risks you take for > having certain freedoms. Ever walk thru a airport metal detector with steeltoed boots on? They dont ask any questions, just scan your feet with the wand to make sure thats where it's being picked up.. Also you can scoot your feet and not set it off. You could easily hide a large knife or other killing instrament in a shoe and nobody will notice. I've only had 1 officer ask me to turn my cellphone on to make sure it is a working phone and not a bomb. It's oversights like these that can let anyone take anything they want on a plane. It's things like these that need to be changed. |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:47:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:47:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <20010911203625.M23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: > I was told when I was 17 and ready to go into the Marines that the current > standards mean that if you have had ANY asthsmatic symptoms past the age of > 12, you're ineligible for any service in any branch of the armed forces. I told one recruiter that I had asthma and never got another call from any branch of military. It's funny how they feed ya full of BS till you tell them that your a cripple(yes I see asthma as a disability), then they suddenly lose interest (must work off commission). I would love to be in the military, just can't because of asthma. That leaves some of us to stay here and protect the Internet. :) |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:52:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:52:38 EDT Subject: [geeks] Today's Children Message-ID: <20010912015309.EQYD22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >And your saying the same thing can't happen today? >Imagine how "OUR" children feel. I was thinking about that same thing today. As long as I can remember terrorism has been one of the major threats. I remember the end of the old era threats(fall of Berlin wall, USSR Coup) and the entrance of new domestic targetted terrorism(WTC boming and whatnot) Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:52:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:52:47 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: <20010912004836.MZRE8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <05a001c13b2d$a2c6a8e0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > Just a suspicion, but I bet the PA crash was an error; if it was a terr > > attack, it's almost anti-climactic after the WTC and the Pentagon. Perhaps > > something went wrong in their plans. Of course, it could just be a tragic > > coincidence as well, since it really doesn't seem to fit. God I hope someone decided to be a hero. *That* would truly be a fitting end to the day. Unfortunate, but fitting. terrorist: "get out of the cockpit and go to the back of the plane!" pilot: "Fuck you! Eat dirt..." Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 20:54:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Rob) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <1000250963.2912.11.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Message-ID: The blade length is based on your hand size. The blade can't be larger than your four fingers. My dad brings a short sword on flight since he has sausage fingers. :) - Rob On 11 Sep 2001, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > On Tue, 2001-09-11 at 16:28, Zach Malone wrote: > > That was what I had been thinking. A knife is any bladed weapon under (6?) > [snip] > > You can't carry a knife onto a plane if the blade is longer than 3.5 or > 4 inches (can't remember which). That doesn't mean that you can do it, > as they'll let you through US security with damn near a short sword if > you show it to them. Airports overseas are a little pickier about these > things. They even confiscated my Victorinox multi-tool (think > "leatherman", only made of nicer steel). > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:02:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:02:47 -0400 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... References: <20010912010425.IVFV26461.mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <05b601c13b2f$08324b20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > I've heard it discussed that in the next war, the enemy > will be within 20 feet of you behind a wall in the same > building as you. Guess I have to warm up Doom/Quake. > I feel as if this might be off topic today: Anybody know if SGI Doom is still around - I just found it again after an install of 6.5.4 (thanks go to Mike Thompson for media). Odd, after several years you still only get the shareware version... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:03:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:03:06 EDT Subject: [geeks] Hijacked Message-ID: <20010912020342.EXTA22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >> Knives exist that could be passed through metal detectors - no doubt about >> it. You can't X-Ray everyone though, and these are risks you take for >> having certain freedoms. >Ever walk thru a airport metal detector with steeltoed boots on? >They dont ask any questions, just scan your feet with the wand to make >sure thats where it's being picked up.. Also you can scoot your feet and >not set it off. You could easily hide a large knife or other killing >instrament in a shoe and nobody will notice. I've only had 1 officer ask >me to turn my cellphone on to make sure it is a working phone and not a >bomb. It's oversights like these that can let anyone take anything they >want on a plane. It's things like these that need to be changed. See, this is not the problem IMHO. Sure, security needs to be beefed up. But no matter what happens it's still pathetically easy to get weapons onto planes. The ground crew is a huge security hole and is hard to secure. That's why I say that we need different kinds of security - mandatory lockable doors and things like computer controls. Even with things like computer controls it would still be possible for a determined terrorist to take control of a plane. They could replace computer systems or repogram them or have people in the control tower. But with other measures(checksums, multiple tower control) these could be kept to a minimum. Someone made the comment that doors much be on all planes, if so then why this tradegy happened is a mystery. Still not believing they're gone and that the poor people are gone. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:03:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:03:19 +0000 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... Message-ID: <20010912020325.JRRR26461.mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> > Hasn't there been enough bloodshed already? Tens of THOUSANDS of > people have just died today. If we go out and start blasting anybody > we will generate MORE ill will and we gear up for MORE terrorist > attacks. I've studied military history and theory a bit and I think > this will become the next vietnam. Nope. It's us now. > There is NO target, There is. We just not sure who or where they are located. > it could be > anyone. They have the freedom to strike without warning and with > weapons that are nearly impossible to defend against. In our own war > for independence our forces used tactics that the British had no way > to defend against. The civilian population of a country is not a > valid target in a war, we are, quite rightly so, unwilling to engage > in the same terrorist acts that others have done to us. This is a > group of criminals, not a military threat. The scale of their crimes > deserve death 10 thousand times over but I do NOT believe a military > strike will solve anything. Depends how you do it. Obviously, "war" has changed again. From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:04:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Rob) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... In-Reply-To: <20010912010833.NGDV8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: I'd like to find the people responsible and turn them into a lump of ash small enough to fit in a glove compartment. - Rob On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 wa2egp at att.net wrote: > Then what do you suggest? > > The die is cast. I can't see any response less than war being sufficient > > to satify American Bloodlust over these events. > > > > - Rob > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:06:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Rob) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <053001c13b28$1eb87420$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: HA. In NJ you couldn't buy guns. They turned off the NICS system. (The instant check system to run background checks for guns.) Luckily I didn't need anything today that required a check. and am far enough from any target that I can think of. - Rob On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > My wife called me with horror in her voice when she watched it on TV > > and was extremely happy that I'm 32 years old and less likely to be > > drafted if such a thing comes to pass. > > > > My wife has expressed that she will "break both your legs if I need to". > She's knows me - I feel very passionately that there should be action taken. > > A side note - the local gun shop was *packed* as I passed by it on my way > home from work today. Literaly, cars were parked on the street in front. > There's no doubt that a lot of folks are getting ready for something... > > Kurt > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:12:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:12:00 +0000 Subject: [geeks] My take Message-ID: <20010912021201.EUVU28026.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> > On another note about plane security. Specifically it sucks. There are > reports that the plain that crashed in PA was taken over with knives. > There is a very simple solution to these types of problems - put a > think door on the cockpit which can only be locked and opened from the > inside. Make it bulletproof. That alone would prevent almost all > terrorist attacks of this type. Secondly, put the planes on > computerized flight control. Override would be from the control towers > only or by a code inputed by the pilot. Pressing a hijack button would > disallow the pilot to disable the computer. > Try airport security. Once when going to a plane at Newark Airport I observed a "worker" walk through a door from an area that I was in, walk across a "road", through a gate in a chain-link fence and up to a plane that was boarding from my terminal. He could have delievered a "package" to the luggage bay. I have to go though a metal detector and they search my carry-on. What ever happened to those "sky marshals" they hired years ago when hijackings were epidemic? From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:14:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:14:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... In-Reply-To: <20010911005407.M18242@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 10:23:10PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > > I'd do it again if I had to do it all over, but I would've paid more [...] > > Employees" class could easily be a full 3-hour semester-long course, > > instead of a week of hell...) > > Is it anything like the "Solaris Internals" book? Thats a GREAT > book... Very similar, but more depth. Also, we get to discuss bugs. :-) -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:15:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] WTB: 4 x 32mb DIMMs for U60 In-Reply-To: <20010911005740.O18242@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > Looking for four 32meg DIMMs for an Ultra 60.... > How about Sunguk? He has plenty, $10 per... _P From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:18:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:18:40 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: Message-ID: <05ea01c13b31$40aed340$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > The blade length is based on your hand size. The blade can't be larger > than your four fingers. My dad brings a short sword on flight since he has > sausage fingers. :) > The blade on my "companion" is only 3.25 inches long - exactly the width of my hand, at the base of my fingers. It's a Junglee Sahara Jr - by all accounts a wicked looking blade. Tanto blade and thumb wheel so that it can be opend with a flick of my wrist. I make no bones about it though. I display it proudly - clipped to my pocket. I even use it in daily use. Need a box opened, lunch sliced, fingernails trimmed, etc - it's here. The sound as it opens is unique. A freind who used to work for the DOD was startled one day as I opened it while standing at the urinal next to him. He likened it to the sound of a pump action shotgun being racked. He made me promise to never do that again.... Sorry - just felt as if I needed to talk about something else for a moment.... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:19:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:19:51 +0000 Subject: [geeks] My take Message-ID: <20010912021952.BDJE21828.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> > Likewise Vietnam was a waste since no change was affected against the > North Vietnamese. > We weren't allowed to win that one. We win, pull out and the South Vietnamese government loses. We lose, pull out, same outcome. As long as we were there, they remained in power and the North couldn't slip in and take over. From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:21:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D.A. Muran-de Assereto) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:21:56 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hmmmm. Hard to understand how anyone would think that a gun (modulo a AAA cannon or somesuch) would have helped prevent today. Still, I guess the imperative for self-protection isn't always reasonable. I have heard many commentators today speak about the lack of security in the US ADIZ. As if just telling someone to stay out of restricted airspace would keep a terrorist or other miscreant at bay. This thing that really pisses me off is that these are the same people that threw a fit when the Peruvians shot down that religious charter flight because they misidentified it, tried to have the captain of the USS Vicennes burned at the stake for shooting down an unarmed airliner, and still flinch at the idea of a US military or civilian casualty during a military action. The only way to enforce these rules, or the will of our nation, on some recalcitrant bastard who doesn't care about world opinion, is to kill him. And then kill all those who would replace him, a la the old Roman attitude with respect to Carthage. Then we run into the "qui custodiat?" phase, where we have to figure out what incorruptible body gets to decide who to kill. This action is liable to cause backlash in the daily political and social life of this country for a long time. Dave Muran-de Assereto > -----Original Message----- > From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf > Of Rob > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 22:06 > To: geeks at sunhelp.org > Subject: Re: Re[6]: [geeks] oh my god. > > > HA. In NJ you couldn't buy guns. They turned off the NICS system. (The > instant check system to run background checks for guns.) Luckily I didn't > need anything today that required a check. and am far enough from any > target that I can think of. > > - Rob > > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > > > > My wife called me with horror in her voice when she watched it on TV > > > and was extremely happy that I'm 32 years old and less likely to be > > > drafted if such a thing comes to pass. > > > > > > > My wife has expressed that she will "break both your legs if I need to". > > She's knows me - I feel very passionately that there should be > action taken. > > > > A side note - the local gun shop was *packed* as I passed by it > on my way > > home from work today. Literaly, cars were parked on the street > in front. > > There's no doubt that a lot of folks are getting ready for something... > > > > Kurt > > > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:25:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:25:45 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: Message-ID: <05fe01c13b32$3d92d0c0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > HA. In NJ you couldn't buy guns. They turned off the NICS system. (The > instant check system to run background checks for guns.) Luckily I didn't > need anything today that required a check. and am far enough from any > target that I can think of. > Here in RI you don't need to have a check run on anything except handguns. To my knowledge! YMMV of course.... The last rifle I bought was an old Czech antique bolt-action that was more club than rifle. No background check - handed my credit card over and walked out with a gun. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:30:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:30:30 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: Message-ID: <001d01c13b32$e537af80$0501000a@laboffice> I saw some pics of a guard patrolling the Whitehouse with what looked like a stinger missile launcher, that would help what prevented today I suppose. I doubt you will find such hardware at your local gun shop though. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "D.A. Muran-de Assereto" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:21 PM Subject: RE: Re[6]: [geeks] oh my god. > Hmmmm. Hard to understand how anyone would think that a gun (modulo > a AAA cannon or somesuch) would have helped prevent today. Still, I > guess the imperative for self-protection isn't always reasonable. From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:34:28 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Someone is alive... Message-ID: Chan heard on the radio that someone trapped in the rubble called his sister via a cell phone... _P ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:34:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ross Alexander) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:34:51 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <20010911223005.LKSW8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net>; from wa2egp@att.net on Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 10:30:04PM +0000 References: <20010911223005.LKSW8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20010911223451.E93575@cc175284-a.union1.nj.home.com> I live in Jersey and work in a hospital in Brooklyn. Got to watch the WTC burn as I drove to work and then spend the day doing what we could to get ready for the flood of casualties. A flood that never came. Apparently people either got out and walked away or didn't make it out at all... A very rough day. > I work in a high school across the Hudson river from the > (former) towers. Many of my students have friends and > relatives who work in New York City. Today I was > playing psychologist and social worker. Some students > actually saw the second tower fall from the classroom > window. They called off school for tomorrow and maybe > the next day. People are being brought over the river > by boat to Jersey hospitals, will be by tunnel and > bridge when they are cleared by the authorities. > Somebody opened a HUGE can of whoop-ass today. The only > thing I can really say is two words....Pearl Harbor. > Sorry, but it has been a rough day. > > My thoughts go out to those killed and injured on the attacks on the > > World Trade Center towers (one of which has entirely collapsed) and > > the Pentagon and Mall. -- Ross Alexander rossalexander at home.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:34:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:34:55 +0000 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. Message-ID: <20010912023504.VATE6924.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> War changes constantly. During our fight for independence, Britain couldn't easily deal with our tactics (sorry to all our .uk readers for bring this up), then we learned this in 'nam and several other spots in the world. Now it changes again. > I'm reading up from the bottom here (my cable's been borked this evening) > but.... > > As a non-US citizen type my outsider's view is that any form of proper war - > and hence a draft - are highly unlikely. This isn't a conventional enemy. > It's terrorism/guerrilla warfare, a large conventional military force > doesn't seem that useful as a retaliatory force. > > I know it's extremely early days but I've been reasonably impressed with > Bush's restraint (so far). For a man who took a while to "back down" from > China he's been extremely controlled so far. I just hope it stays this way. > > I'm vaguely getting a grip on the situation now. I was appalled at what I > heard on the radio and read on the 'net while at work. When I got home and > watched some of the situation on TV I had to switch off and listen to some > soothing music for a while. > > Now I go to read the rest of my mail and catch up on the news. > > Will. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua D Boyd" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:01 PM > Subject: Re: [geeks] oh my god. > > > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 05:03:40PM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > > > My wife called me with horror in her voice when she watched it on TV > > > and was extremely happy that I'm 32 years old and less likely to be > > > drafted if such a thing comes to pass. > > > > I am prime draft age (I couldn't get into the military if I wanted > > to, but apparently for the draft the physical standards are dropped), and > > my mother was expressing concern about myself being drafted. > > > > Where does this come from? Are pretty much all terrorist nations really > > small places that could be easily obliterated using only conventional > > weapons if we so desired? > > > > Further, why do people talk about there having had to be a large network > > of dedicated people to pull this off? Why couldn't a small group of only > > 2 people per plane do it? Aren't planes hijacked all the time by only one > > or two people? If there are less the 20 people, this would easily explain > > why the intelligence community failed to provide warning than other > > arguments do. > > > > -- > > Joshua D. Boyd > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:39:21 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Reflections on terror, pain, and airlines. Message-ID: I just arrived home from the bay area last night, and woke up to something that wasn't Howard Stern this AM. We dashed (I more or less hobbled) out to the living room, just in time to watch the replay of the second airliner crashing into the trade towers, and watched live in horror as the second tower collapsed. I felt like howling my pain and rage. I could see the pentagon as a target, but the cold-blooded destruction of so many innocent lives just about tripped my mental breakers. Some thoughts: 1) Rudy G is an awesome mayor, I like how he told people who thought they would profiteer that they wouldn't get away with it. 2) I truly thought that the children today would grow up in a happier world, now that the cold war is over. Not so, it seems. 3) As a former resident of NY state, and having travelled to NYC countless times, I cannot believe the trade center is gone. 4) I hope we catch whoever did this, and kill them. I hate violence, but those with that much disregard for human life do not derserve to live. 5) Explosives on the GW bridge? I am stunned. I stayed home today, as by the time I was ready to leave, San Diego traffic was a mess as they closed everything and put security around the bases. I have never felt this kind of mental agony... Something about watching those buildings collapse hurt me more than I expected, and I have seen much over the years. I pray to whatever powers are out there that this never happens again. _pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:42:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:42:03 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: <001d01c13b32$e537af80$0501000a@laboffice> <20010911203254.S2437@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <001301c13b34$81ba6860$0501000a@laboffice> I would imagine that you would have to hit from quite a bit of distance (probably outside of the stingers range) to cause it to avoid hitting whatever you were sitting. I would imagine that it was more a case of trying to get something out there, no matter how insignifigant, for morale/PR reasons. This whole thing seems to be straight out of a video game or a Tom Clancy novel. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reagen B. Ward" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:32 PM Subject: Re: Re[6]: [geeks] oh my god. > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 10:30:30PM -0400, Zach Malone wrote: > > I saw some pics of a guard patrolling the Whitehouse with what looked like a > > stinger missile launcher, that would help what prevented today I suppose. I > > doubt you will find such hardware at your local gun shop though. > > Stinger vs. jumbo jet? Remember that the sum of the parts momentum is > the same. > > Reagen > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:42:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <20010911203254.S2437@zilla.nu> Message-ID: > > I saw some pics of a guard patrolling the Whitehouse with what looked like a > > stinger missile launcher, that would help what prevented today I suppose. I > > doubt you will find such hardware at your local gun shop though. > > Stinger vs. jumbo jet? Remember that the sum of the parts momentum is > the same. All you need to do is ignite the fuel vapor in the tanks..*BOOM*, there will be pieces scattered about but nothing big enough to take out buildings that size. Of course, a stinger will home in on one of the engines and not the fuel tank...so you'd have to rely on the golden BB theory. From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:43:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:43:52 +0000 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. Message-ID: <20010912024353.BLQL21828.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Run north, young man! Run north! (sorry, flashback) > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 10:26:45PM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > > Oh shit.... I only filed my Selective Service card this year in case I > > needed loans for school... I'm 22... and desperately in need of a > > passport.... > > Passport? So you can run and not be drafted? Coward. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:46:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:46:53 +0000 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. Message-ID: <20010912024654.OQKR8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> > I don't believe that nuclear weapons will, or should, ever be used in an act of > agression again. > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks Only aggression against some mile wide asteroid heading toward earth. From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 21:53:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:53:00 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: <20010912024654.OQKR8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <000701c13b36$09efae60$0501000a@laboffice> And even then, only if it was FAR away from earth (or other occupied planets), the fallout from a nucler detonation in orbit might suck. A lot. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] oh my god. > > > I don't believe that nuclear weapons will, or should, ever be used in an act of > > agression again. > > Greg > > > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > Only aggression against some mile wide asteroid heading toward earth. > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:07:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:07:30 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <05ea01c13b31$40aed340$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <05ea01c13b31$40aed340$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010911220730.Q23360@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 10:18:40PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > It's a Junglee Sahara Jr - by all accounts a wicked looking blade. Tanto > blade and thumb wheel so that it can be opend with a flick of my wrist. URL? I recently got one of the "mini" Leathermans that opens then the "handle extensions" fold out again, to make a full-sized pair of pliers. Nice, but WAY heavy. Bill (2 parents as cops, I love guns and knives..) -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:09:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 03:09:52 +0000 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked Message-ID: <20010912030953.KPFH26461.mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> > And as far as ridiculous hijackings go, back during the Reagan years > a Cuban expatriate hijacked a commercial airliner back to Cuba using > a GALLON OF GASOLINE and a lighter. > > Dave Muran-de Assereto > Got a better one. A pilot was demonstrating the guidence computer to a passenger visiting the cabin on a New York to Miami flight. As an example, the pilot typed in the code for Havana and told the passenger that the plane would fly there. After the cabin visit the pilot went back to "flying" the plane. Getting close to southern Florida, the plane started to turn east. The pilot started to check for any malfunctions and suddenly realized he forgot to clear the code. The computer was hijacking the plane. (I don't know true this is, <- disclaimer, but it is funny.) From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:18:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Rob) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010911220730.Q23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: It looks like there are good pictures at: http://www1.gutmanncutlery.com/sahara.htm - Rob On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 10:18:40PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > It's a Junglee Sahara Jr - by all accounts a wicked looking blade. Tanto > > blade and thumb wheel so that it can be opend with a flick of my wrist. > > URL? > > I recently got one of the "mini" Leathermans that opens then the "handle > extensions" fold out again, to make a full-sized pair of pliers. Nice, > but WAY heavy. > > Bill (2 parents as cops, I love guns and knives..) > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:26:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 03:26:17 +0000 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked Message-ID: <20010912032617.FUCZ28026.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Ah.....I'm not sure of that. I once brought a "Swiss Army" knife on a plane and security just about shit themselves. They did finally let me on with extrememly strong warnings not to do it again. > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:28:07PM -0400, Zach Malone wrote: > > That was what I had been thinking. A knife is any bladed weapon under (6?) > > inches. You can buy ceramic knifes with plastic and rubber handels for > > under a hundred bucks. It kind of surprises me that this has not happened > > sooner. > > You can legally carry folding knives under 6" on an airplane, anyway. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:29:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010912032617.FUCZ28026.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: They have occasionally flipped over my micro victornox knife (it really pisses me off that "swiss army" means nothing now). The entire thing is smaller than my pinky finger. Nick On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 wa2egp at att.net wrote: > Ah.....I'm not sure of that. I once brought a "Swiss > Army" knife on a plane and security just about shit > themselves. They did finally let me on with extrememly > strong warnings not to do it again. > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:28:07PM -0400, Zach Malone wrote: > > > That was what I had been thinking. A knife is any bladed weapon under (6?) > > > inches. You can buy ceramic knifes with plastic and rubber handels for > > > under a hundred bucks. It kind of surprises me that this has not happened > > > sooner. > > > > You can legally carry folding knives under 6" on an airplane, anyway. > > > > Bill > > > > -- > > Bill Bradford > > mrbill at mrbill.net > > Austin, TX > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:34:28 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael S. Schiller) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:34:28 -0400 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... References: <04b001c13aff$96de3120$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <3B9ED7C4.AC62FBBD@agrijag.com> Kurt Huhn wrote: > > The die is cast. I can't see any response less than war being sufficient > > to satify American Bloodlust over these events. > > > > A coworker has expressed that he will re-enlist if it comes to that. > > I honestly don't know what I would do. My emotions call for war, my more > pragmatic side (the one currently in control) wants to be absolutely sure of > the aggressors - and then wipe them from the face of the earth with a well > planned, surgical operation. Why does every one use the term 'surgical'? I think we should find out who was responsible, AND what government supported it, then just wipe that country off the map, gone doesn't exist anymore. That will send the ONLY message these kind of people understand, and make other governments think twice about supporting terrorists. The US is currently the strongest country on the planet, it's time we started acting like it! > > There's a ton of opinion out there about this. Most of it boils down to > "someone's gotta pay the ultimate price". > > I personally fulfilled my daily goal, by pissing off someone whom I can only > describe as bleading heart liberal (appologies - my flame suit is on - I > have no other words right now). In fact, myself and another pissed him off > so bad that he actually left the office. The discussion was, oddly enough, > over the expected (or rather, expected lack of a) lasting financial impact > of the morning's events. Odd sort of thing to get so upset about... > > Kurt > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:38:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael S. Schiller) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:38:18 -0400 Subject: [geeks] My take References: <20010911213047.YZUA22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> <20010911154301.O2437@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <3B9ED8AA.C8D5205E@agrijag.com> "Reagen B. Ward" wrote: > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 05:30:27PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > > think it is, then here is what I think should happen. 1. Give > > Afghanistan 24hours to hand him and his fellow terrorists over. 2. If > > that doesn't happen, go to war. Invade the country. > > This would be ironic considering the aid we send to Afghanistan. > > Then again, the US is odd about sending aid. We give Israel more cash > than any other nation, but that's OK, because we get most of it back > when they buy arms from us. They then use the arms to kill Palestinians > (right or wrong), and we wonder why the Arab nations still hate us. Screw the Arabs! > > > Reagen > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:41:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael S. Schiller) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:41:08 -0400 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. References: <000f01c13b03$1039d210$0501000a@laboffice> Message-ID: <3B9ED954.841D4DAD@agrijag.com> Zach Malone wrote: > Im just happy that I am within vaporization range of DC, and that I am > no longer living in the area that would be hit with heavy fallout. You have > to look at these things with the proper perspective. I live about 60 miles from Oak Ridge TN, so I guess I'm in a fallout area :( Personally I hope Oak Ridge is gearing up their production, I think the US needs to reduce a country or two to being a sheet of glass. > > Not making lite of the situation, just pointing out that things could be > worse. > Zach > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kris Kirby" > To: "Rob" > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:43 PM > Subject: Re[2]: [geeks] oh my god. > > > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Mike Hebel wrote: > > > Anybody close to a target? I'm about 20 minutes from Recon Optical in > > > Barrington, IL. Worries me a little. I think my family and I are > > > going to visit friends in upper Wisconsin. > > > > Uh.. Uh... Shit! Five miles from Redstone Arsenal, AL. (Home of Army > > Missle Command [MICOM]) > > > > ----- > > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > > | > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." > > > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:44:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:44:55 -0500 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... In-Reply-To: <3B9ED7C4.AC62FBBD@agrijag.com> References: <04b001c13aff$96de3120$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <3B9ED7C4.AC62FBBD@agrijag.com> Message-ID: <67402200469.20010911224455@crosswinds.net> MSS> Kurt Huhn wrote: >> > The die is cast. I can't see any response less than war being sufficient >> > to satify American Bloodlust over these events. >> > >> >> A coworker has expressed that he will re-enlist if it comes to that. >> >> I honestly don't know what I would do. My emotions call for war, my more >> pragmatic side (the one currently in control) wants to be absolutely sure of >> the aggressors - and then wipe them from the face of the earth with a well >> planned, surgical operation. MSS> Why does every one use the term 'surgical'? I think we should find out who was MSS> responsible, AND what government supported it, then just wipe that country off MSS> the map, gone doesn't exist anymore. That will send the ONLY message these kind MSS> of people understand, and make other governments think twice about supporting MSS> terrorists. The US is currently the strongest country on the planet, it's time MSS> we started acting like it! Translation: *German accent* Sieg Heil! Ve are ze master race! (A little flaming but I think that makes my point. Not something we want to become.) Seriously while this would probably be quite satisfying we would do two things to ourselves: 1) We would martyrize the offending nation to like nations with similar ideas. Can you say Jihad? 2) We would most likely alienate the more pacifistic elements of our foreign allies. Not something you want to do if you want to _stop_ terrorism in your country as pacifists forced to fight are often _more_ fierce than the "normal" warriors. Cornered animal syndrome. What we need is state approved assassinations of anyone even remotely related to the incident. Much as I don't approve it would need to be done men, women, children, and friends style to have the desired effect. You can't leave anyone alive to continue the chain of evil. Unfortunately you often become the evil you sought to remove. Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:45:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 03:45:56 +0000 Subject: [geeks] Today's Children Message-ID: <20010912034557.PHYW8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> I know how they feel! I teach (across the river from the former WTC) > And your saying the same thing can't happen today? > Imagine how "OUR" children feel. From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:49:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 03:49:30 +0000 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... Message-ID: <20010912034931.CEJH21828.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Now that's what I call restraint. (Ducking) > I'd like to find the people responsible and turn them into a lump of ash > small enough to fit in a glove compartment. > > - Rob From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:50:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Amy) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:50:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010911224842.U1805-100000@feeding.frenzy.com> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 nick at snowman.net wrote: > They have occasionally flipped over my micro victornox knife (it really > pisses me off that "swiss army" means nothing now). The entire thing is > smaller than my pinky finger. well, i doubt few others on this list have experienced what i have..being repeatedly scanned, searched, and questioned at houston intercontinental due to wearing an underwire bra :P --a From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:50:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 03:50:51 +0000 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. Message-ID: <20010912035051.CERO21828.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> I teach in an "urban environment". If I wanted too.... > HA. In NJ you couldn't buy guns. They turned off the NICS system. (The > instant check system to run background checks for guns.) Luckily I didn't > need anything today that required a check. and am far enough from any > target that I can think of. > > - Rob From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:54:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:54:03 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: Message-ID: <063401c13b3e$93658680$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> That's it! Mine is silver with kraton inserts - the black versions wasn't around when I bought mine. However - I might pick one up now that I've seen it... Kurt > It looks like there are good pictures at: > > http://www1.gutmanncutlery.com/sahara.htm > > - Rob > > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 10:18:40PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > It's a Junglee Sahara Jr - by all accounts a wicked looking blade. Tanto > > > blade and thumb wheel so that it can be opend with a flick of my wrist. > > > > URL? > > > > I recently got one of the "mini" Leathermans that opens then the "handle > > extensions" fold out again, to make a full-sized pair of pliers. Nice, > > but WAY heavy. > > > > Bill (2 parents as cops, I love guns and knives..) > > > > -- > > Bill Bradford > > mrbill at mrbill.net > > Austin, TX > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:54:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 11 Sep 2001 20:54:13 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <055c01c13b2a$57f258d0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> <055c01c13b2a$57f258d0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <1000266856.2644.16.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Tue, 2001-09-11 at 18:29, Kurt Huhn wrote: > My wife would like to see flourascopes (sp?) at airport terminals - not sure > that will happen.... What's a flourascope? Google doesn't have any useful information, except that it's something that can be used to find "foreign bodies" in people. Is it akin to an X-ray? Is it less harmful? How's it work? Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 22:56:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 03:56:32 +0000 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. Message-ID: <20010912035632.MKDH1680.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Blow it in small enough pieces and air friction takes over. > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 10:30:30PM -0400, Zach Malone wrote: > > I saw some pics of a guard patrolling the Whitehouse with what looked like a > > stinger missile launcher, that would help what prevented today I suppose. I > > doubt you will find such hardware at your local gun shop though. > > Stinger vs. jumbo jet? Remember that the sum of the parts momentum is > the same. > > Reagen > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 23:00:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 04:00:47 +0000 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. Message-ID: <20010912040047.LCTO26461.mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Fallout depends on how much matter gets vaporized. Modern devices are cleaner when properly used (?) than what was dropped on Japan eventhough a hell of a lot more powerful. > And even then, only if it was FAR away from earth (or other occupied > planets), the fallout from a nucler detonation in orbit might suck. A lot. > Zach > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:46 PM > Subject: Re: [geeks] oh my god. > > > > > > > I don't believe that nuclear weapons will, or should, ever be used in an > act of > > > agression again. > > > Greg > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > > Only aggression against some mile wide asteroid heading toward earth. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 23:08:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 04:08:17 +0000 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked Message-ID: <20010912040818.CIMJ21828.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> No, I haven't :-> but I did get stopped for trying to walk into a Six Flags park with 26 cents in my pocket. > > > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 nick at snowman.net wrote: > > > They have occasionally flipped over my micro victornox knife (it really > > pisses me off that "swiss army" means nothing now). The entire thing is > > smaller than my pinky finger. > > well, i doubt few others on this list have experienced what i have..being > repeatedly scanned, searched, and questioned at houston intercontinental > due to wearing an underwire bra :P > > --a > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 23:12:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 04:12:20 +0000 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. Message-ID: <20010912041221.POBJ8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Wing tank. Remember what happened to flight 800 off of Long Island? Just a few sparks from a wire and almost full tanks. > On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 03:56:32AM +0000, wa2egp at att.net wrote: > > Blow it in small enough pieces and air friction takes > > Again, Stinger vs. jumbo jet? Need a few stingers to get to that point.. > > Reagen > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 23:21:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 00:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <20010911231725.X2437@zilla.nu> Message-ID: Fairly unrelated to this particular post, but I'm sure most of you have heard of Janes http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jid/jid010911_1_n.shtml Nick On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 04:12:20AM +0000, wa2egp at att.net wrote: > > Wing tank. Remember what happened to flight 800 off of > > Long Island? Just a few sparks from a wire and almost > > full tanks. > > Good point. The Stinger will hunt the engine and would almost > positively ignite the wing tank. > > Reagen > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 11 23:28:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:28:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <1000266856.2644.16.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Message-ID: > What's a flourascope? Google doesn't have any useful information, > except that it's something that can be used to find "foreign bodies" in > people. Is it akin to an X-ray? Is it less harmful? How's it work? Not to sure about the actual technology but it's a pre x-ray x-ray. Your more likely to die from cancer than from what you were being flourascoped for. http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00261.html |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 01:42:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (William S.) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010911201200.I23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010912064253.13997.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> I think commercial airliners should not have any door between the passengers and flight crew. There should be a bullet proof wall separating the two areas. Therefor, no passengers could gain entry to the cockpit and directly harm or threaten the crew. Bill Amsterdam, NL --- Bill Bradford wrote: > > They have no way of knowing what the intentions of > the hijackers were - > think about it - most of them will be like "take me > to cuba". __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 01:53:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael S. Schiller) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:53:22 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: <20010912064253.13997.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B9F0662.9C1FFEE1@agrijag.com> Big problem with this idea is that they just grab a passenger, and kill (or hurt) them. Pilot will probably do whatever he's told after that. "William S." wrote: > I think commercial airliners should not have any door > between the passengers and flight crew. There should > be a bullet proof wall separating the two areas. > Therefor, no passengers could gain entry to the > cockpit and directly harm or threaten the crew. > > Bill > > Amsterdam, NL > > --- Bill Bradford wrote: > > > > > > They have no way of knowing what the intentions > of > > > the hijackers were - > > > think about it - most of them will be like "take > me > > > to cuba". > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger > http://im.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 02:29:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:29:50 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: <20010911231842.BJHC22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> <055c01c13b2a$57f258d0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <1000266856.2644.16.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> <20010911220334.W2437@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <00ea01c13b5c$d6797a80$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> From: "Reagen B. Ward" > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 08:54:13PM -0700, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > > On Tue, 2001-09-11 at 18:29, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > My wife would like to see flourascopes (sp?) at airport terminals - not sure > > > that will happen.... > > > > What's a flourascope? Google doesn't have any useful information, > > except that it's something that can be used to find "foreign bodies" in > > people. Is it akin to an X-ray? Is it less harmful? How's it work? > > Isn't it the nifty device that lets you see people's nude outline? > Lotsa folks got mad at the idea of folks seeing nicely detailed outlines > of their privates. As a result, they're not very common and are used as > an alternative to a strip search. > > I could be thinking of something else, though. > > Reagen I suspect Google didn't turn anything up because it's "flouroscope" IIRC. http://www.google.com/search?q=flouroscope From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 07:09:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:09:26 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: Message-ID: <066c01c13b83$c7cf7120$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > What's a flourascope? Google doesn't have any useful information, > > except that it's something that can be used to find "foreign bodies" in > > people. Is it akin to an X-ray? Is it less harmful? How's it work? > Not to sure about the actual technology but it's a pre x-ray x-ray. > Your more likely to die from cancer than from what you were being > flourascoped for. > http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00261.html > That's exactly it. There's a reason they're not in widespread use anymore. The radiation from these things scatters over a fairly wide area - and aadministers *huge* doses of it. They are *not* a good thing unless technology advances in the last 40 years or so have reduced the dangers. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 08:01:21 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:01:21 +0100 Subject: [geeks] My take Message-ID: <20010912140121.G9318@plough.barnyard.co.uk> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 05:30:27PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > Invade the country. Do NOT do simple > surgical bombings. Invade and occupy their cities and land. Possible do > this with Russia. I might even support the use of things like nukes. > Bring back the B-52s and carpet bomb, Use ICBMs with nuclear or > conventional weapons. I am appalled at that. Actually no I'm not, I'm disgusted. Do you *really* think that it is acceptable to kill innocents in retaliation? It doesn't matter what nationality those innocents are, or who their government is, anyone who plans or carries out those attacks would be committing a despicably evil crime. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Educating this luser would be something to frustrate even the unflappable Yoda and make him jam a lightsaber up his arse while screaming "praise evil, the Dark Side is your friend!". -- Derek Balling, in the Monastery From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 08:11:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (William S.) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 06:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] My take In-Reply-To: <20010912140121.G9318@plough.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010912131104.79043.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> I agree with you David on this one. We should not add more evil to what already has happened. I admit though, when this first happened I was inclined towards the same method but having some time to settle down a bit, we really need to think things through. To set in motion something that will prevent this from happening again and really think out how the world is and what direction it is going. Bill Amsterdam, NL --- David Cantrell wrote: > I am appalled at that. Actually no I'm not, I'm > disgusted. Do you *really* > think that it is acceptable to kill innocents in > retaliation? It doesn't > matter what nationality those innocents are, or who > their government is, > anyone who plans or carries out those attacks would > be committing a > despicably evil crime. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 08:20:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:20:54 +0100 Subject: [geeks] oh my god. In-Reply-To: <20010911180134.B15713@cs.millersville.edu>; from jdboyd@cs.millersville.edu on Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 06:01:34PM -0400 References: <194363719919.20010911120340@crosswinds.net> <1000237533.3b9e69dd7901d@tux.creighton.edu> <75373855306.20010911145234@crosswinds.net> <1000244464.3b9e84f08a18d@tux.creighton.edu> <104381722732.20010911170340@crosswinds.net> <20010911180134.B15713@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010912142054.I9318@plough.barnyard.co.uk> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 06:01:34PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > Where does this come from? Are pretty much all terrorist nations really > small places that could be easily obliterated using only conventional > weapons if we so desired? What is this "terrorist nations" and "rogue states" thing? By any sane definition, plenty of supposedly civilised countries qualify just as easily as places like North Korea and Syria, including the US and UK. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david If a job's worth doing, it's worth dieing for From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 08:58:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:58:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <3B9F0662.9C1FFEE1@agrijag.com> References: <20010912064253.13997.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> <3B9F0662.9C1FFEE1@agrijag.com> Message-ID: <20010912095816.A29732@cs.millersville.edu> On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 02:53:22AM -0400, Michael S. Schiller wrote: > Big problem with this idea is that they just grab a passenger, and kill (or > hurt) them. Pilot will probably do whatever he's told after that. Well, I wouldn't think he would do whatever told. I mean, if he is ordered to kill hundreds of people, or a few passengers would die, which would you choose? -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 09:40:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:40:54 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010912095816.A29732@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20010912064253.13997.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> <3B9F0662.9C1FFEE1@agrijag.com> <20010912095816.A29732@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010912094054.V23360@mrbill.net> On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 09:58:16AM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > Well, I wouldn't think he would do whatever told. I mean, if he is > ordered to kill hundreds of people, or a few passengers would die, which > would you choose? Think about it - the pilots had no way of knowing the hijackers were going to fly into a building. As far as they knew, they just wanted to go to Cuba... >From what I've seen of the pilot's union, they agree unanimously that if faced between killing himself and the people on the plane, or killing thousands of people in the WTC, the pilot would choose to auger the plane in. Wasnt it Asimov (along with the Laws of Robotics) that said "the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few" ? Same argument could be used if the US did/had to/was faced with having to shoot down a hijacked airliner. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 09:44:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:44:03 +0100 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... In-Reply-To: <05b601c13b2f$08324b20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH>; from kurt@k-huhn.com on Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 10:02:47PM -0400 References: <20010912010425.IVFV26461.mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> <05b601c13b2f$08324b20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010912154403.B12111@plough.barnyard.co.uk> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 10:02:47PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Anybody know if SGI Doom is still around - I just found it again after an > install of 6.5.4 (thanks go to Mike Thompson for media). Odd, after several > years you still only get the shareware version... That's all you ever got. For the full game, you copied the .wad file from the registered Windows version. I believe the same executable would also play Doom 2 with the appropriate .wad. I have both if you're interested. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H. L. Mencken From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 10:29:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Phil Brutsche) Date: 12 Sep 2001 10:29:30 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010912094054.V23360@mrbill.net> References: <20010912064253.13997.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> <3B9F0662.9C1FFEE1@agrijag.com> <20010912095816.A29732@cs.millersville.edu> <20010912094054.V23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <1000308571.4894.30.camel@fury> On Wed, 2001-09-12 at 09:40, Bill Bradford wrote: > Wasnt it Asimov (along with the Laws of Robotics) that said "the needs of > the many outweight the needs of the few" ? He said that? The Laws of Robotics probably come down to that, but I remember first hearing "the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few" in the 2nd & 3rd Star Trek movies. > Same argument could be used if the US did/had to/was faced with having > to shoot down a hijacked airliner. Yep. -- Phil From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 10:37:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:37:04 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: <20010912064253.13997.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> <3B9F0662.9C1FFEE1@agrijag.com> <20010912095816.A29732@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <009101c13ba0$c7089880$0501000a@laboffice> All the high jackings took place within a short period of time, I would imagine that the pilots didn't have a clue what was going on, nor did air traffic controllers, which is what made it work. If all the passengers were aware of what was happening, chances are that they would just rush the people with the knifes. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua D Boyd" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] Hijacked > On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 02:53:22AM -0400, Michael S. Schiller wrote: > > Big problem with this idea is that they just grab a passenger, and kill (or > > hurt) them. Pilot will probably do whatever he's told after that. > > Well, I wouldn't think he would do whatever told. I mean, if he is > ordered to kill hundreds of people, or a few passengers would die, which > would you choose? > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 10:45:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:45:42 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010912094054.V23360@mrbill.net> References: <20010912064253.13997.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> <3B9F0662.9C1FFEE1@agrijag.com> <20010912095816.A29732@cs.millersville.edu> <20010912094054.V23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010912114542.A32168@cs.millersville.edu> On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 09:40:54AM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 09:58:16AM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > Well, I wouldn't think he would do whatever told. I mean, if he is > > ordered to kill hundreds of people, or a few passengers would die, which > > would you choose? > > Think about it - the pilots had no way of knowing the hijackers were > going to fly into a building. As far as they knew, they just wanted to > go to Cuba... Not in the above case (which perhaps I shouldn't have clipped) because the idea was the there is no door between the cockpit and cabin, so the highjackers can't take the stick, but instead have to pass orders up to the pilot. Not sure if totally sealing off the cockpit is a good idea, but I was just pointing out a flaw in the argument against it. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 12:51:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:51:26 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <1000308571.4894.30.camel@fury>; from pbrutsch@tux.creighton.edu on Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 10:29:30AM -0500 References: <20010912064253.13997.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> <3B9F0662.9C1FFEE1@agrijag.com> <20010912095816.A29732@cs.millersville.edu> <20010912094054.V23360@mrbill.net> <1000308571.4894.30.camel@fury> Message-ID: <20010912185126.E14593@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 10:29:30AM -0500, Phil Brutsche wrote: > On Wed, 2001-09-12 at 09:40, Bill Bradford wrote: > > > Wasnt it Asimov (along with the Laws of Robotics) that said "the needs of > > the many outweight the needs of the few" ? > > The Laws of Robotics probably come down to that, but I remember first > hearing "the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few" in the > 2nd & 3rd Star Trek movies. It's a paraphrase of Lenin, IIRC. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david If a job's worth doing, it's worth dieing for From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 13:07:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:07:27 EDT Subject: [geeks] Hijacked Message-ID: <20010912180845.VWWP22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >> Well, I wouldn't think he would do whatever told. I mean, if he is >> ordered to kill hundreds of people, or a few passengers would die, which >> would you choose? > >Think about it - the pilots had no way of knowing the hijackers were >going to fly into a building. As far as they knew, they just wanted to >go to Cuba... > >From what I've seen of the pilot's union, they agree unanimously that >if faced between killing himself and the people on the plane, or killing >thousands of people in the WTC, the pilot would choose to auger the plane >in. That's the point exactly. If the terrorists cannot get into the cockpit then they have to tell the pilot what to do. Like you said, no pilot would fly his plane into a building because terrorists would kill people in the back. If the hijackers said "Fly to Cuba" the pilot could fly to Cuba, no buildings would be destroyed. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 13:09:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Mosiejczuk) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:09:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010912040818.CIMJ21828.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 wa2egp at att.net wrote: > No, I haven't :-> but I did get stopped for trying to > walk into a Six Flags park with 26 cents in my pocket. I thought that they stop you getting out with any money left in your pocket? =) --Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 13:41:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:41:46 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Iris Crimson Rescue Message-ID: I've been offered the opportunity to take an Iris Crimson for $30 -- the major caveat is that it has no hard drives. Do SGIs take plain old SCSI hard drives? Can they boot headless a la Sun Sparc? Lastly, is this thing *really* going to suck 1100W? 8-| ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 13:46:24 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:46:24 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Iris Crimson Rescue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I've been offered the opportunity to take an Iris Crimson for $30 -- the >major caveat is that it has no hard drives. Do SGIs take plain old SCSI >hard drives? Can they boot headless a la Sun Sparc? Lastly, is this thing >*really* going to suck 1100W? 8-| > yes, plain scsi, yes they boot headless (if you are going to do this I'll pay you 3x what you're paying PLUS shipping for it, the only SGI to run headless is a challenge/origin), it COULD suck 1100w, depends on the configuration. daniel From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 13:51:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:51:49 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Iris Crimson Rescue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>I've been offered the opportunity to take an Iris Crimson for $30 -- the >>major caveat is that it has no hard drives. Do SGIs take plain old SCSI >>hard drives? Can they boot headless a la Sun Sparc? Lastly, is this thing >>*really* going to suck 1100W? 8-| >> > >yes, plain scsi, yes they boot headless (if you are going to do this >I'll pay you 3x what you're paying PLUS shipping for it, the only >SGI to run headless is a challenge/origin), it COULD suck 1100w, >depends on the configuration. Ooops... forgot to mention you will need drive sleds. I *THINK* onyx drive sleds will work but others will have to confirm that. >daniel >_______________________________________________ >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 14:11:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 19:11:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Iris Crimson Rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Big Endian wrote: > yes, plain scsi, yes they boot headless (if you are going to do this > I'll pay you 3x what you're paying PLUS shipping for it, the only SGI > to run headless is a challenge/origin), it COULD suck 1100w, depends > on the configuration. I've got no idea what video it's got, but from what I've been able to scare up, the machine can take up to 256MB of RAM (which it may have). It does have an ethernet transciever included, FWIW. I'm looking for a source on a recent copy of IRIX for it, installation instructions, and so on. Leads as to how to attach an SGI to an independant monitor (5BNC) or SVGA monitor would be nice as well. Some one needs to write an SGI hardware guide like the Sun one. :) ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 14:12:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:12:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Iris Crimson Rescue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Big Endian wrote: >> yes, plain scsi, yes they boot headless (if you are going to do this >> I'll pay you 3x what you're paying PLUS shipping for it, the only SGI >> to run headless is a challenge/origin), it COULD suck 1100w, depends >> on the configuration. > >I've got no idea what video it's got, but from what I've been able to >scare up, the machine can take up to 256MB of RAM (which it may have). It >does have an ethernet transciever included, FWIW. > >I'm looking for a source on a recent copy of IRIX for it, installation >instructions, and so on. Leads as to how to attach an SGI to an >independant monitor (5BNC) or SVGA monitor would be nice as well. > >Some one needs to write an SGI hardware guide like the Sun one. :) > www.sgihelp.org are there anymore?? I'd LOVE to have a deskside SGI, especially if its RE graphics. From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 14:32:21 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 19:32:21 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Iris Crimson Rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Big Endian wrote: > are there anymore?? I'd LOVE to have a deskside SGI, especially if > its RE graphics. It's just a single machine... ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 15:23:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:23:23 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: <20010912064253.13997.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> <3B9F0662.9C1FFEE1@agrijag.com> <20010912095816.A29732@cs.millersville.edu> <20010912094054.V23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <06e101c13bc8$c89d8930$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > >From what I've seen of the pilot's union, they agree unanimously that > if faced between killing himself and the people on the plane, or killing > thousands of people in the WTC, the pilot would choose to auger the plane > in. > Pilots are a strange breed. Usually they're former military, and believe that they're just a step away from God. They are the epitome of macho men - so they believe. Having known a few pilots over the years, I can attest that the above is (downing the plane) a *very* safe assumption. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 15:37:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:37:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Iris Crimson Rescue References: Message-ID: <071f01c13bca$c889ef40$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > I've been offered the opportunity to take an Iris Crimson for $30 -- the > major caveat is that it has no hard drives. Do SGIs take plain old SCSI > hard drives? Can they boot headless a la Sun Sparc? Lastly, is this thing > *really* going to suck 1100W? 8-| > It doesn't matter - GRAB IT! If you don't want it - email me for my shipping address :-) Yes - that SGI should take any plan vanilla SCSI drive. It *might* require sleds - dunno too much about the Crimsons. At any rate - it's worth at least $30 in bragging rights. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 16:51:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D.A. Muran-de Assereto) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:51:14 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <06e101c13bc8$c89d8930$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: According to the news, the PA flight was indeed an act of self-sacrifice on the part of some of the folks in the air. Not sure if it was just the pilots or not, but apparently someone was on the phone with a family member, said that since they were going to die anyway, they were going to try something. And then the plane augured in. Dave Muran-de Assereto > -----Original Message----- > From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf > Of Kurt Huhn > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 16:23 > To: geeks at sunhelp.org > Subject: Re: [geeks] Hijacked > > > > >From what I've seen of the pilot's union, they agree unanimously that > > if faced between killing himself and the people on the plane, or killing > > thousands of people in the WTC, the pilot would choose to auger > the plane > > in. > > > > Pilots are a strange breed. Usually they're former military, and believe > that they're just a step away from God. They are the epitome of > macho men - > so they believe. > > Having known a few pilots over the years, I can attest that the above is > (downing the plane) a *very* safe assumption. > > Kurt > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 17:38:21 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Amer Chaudhry) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:38:21 +0100 Subject: [geeks] display servers Message-ID: <000a01c13bdb$a09a54f0$49de11ac@sungardbrass.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C13BE4.02218CE0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What is a display server and what does it do? ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C13BE4.02218CE0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
What is a display server and what does = it=20 do?
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C13BE4.02218CE0-- From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 18:34:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 19:34:54 EDT Subject: [geeks] My take Message-ID: <20010912233629.FCZH22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >> Invade the country. Do NOT do simple >> surgical bombings. Invade and occupy their cities and land. Possible do >> this with Russia. I might even support the use of things like nukes. >> Bring back the B-52s and carpet bomb, Use ICBMs with nuclear or >> conventional weapons. > >I am appalled at that. Actually no I'm not, I'm disgusted. Do you * really* >think that it is acceptable to kill innocents in retaliation? It doesn't >matter what nationality those innocents are, or who their government is, >anyone who plans or carries out those attacks would be committing a >despicably evil crime. Having thought about it more I'd still have to say yes. When we say to Afghanistan "Hand over bin Laden or be bombed" they have to realize that we are serious and to start evacuating cities if they don't want to hand him over. As sad as it is I think these terrorists will only understand terror and that killing their countrymen might be the only choice. When it comes down to "loose more Americans from terrorist attacks" or "Kill their civilians" I would chose the first one in a heartbeat. This same choice has been made before - the A-Bombings of Japan are an example and I support those decisions. In every war except for the Persian Gulf civilians have been a valid target. It's messy, it's ugly but it's war. Attacks on this magnitude demand a different response than past response which were attacks on valid(terrorist) targets. In my mind there is no other way, previous attempts at surgical strikes have been completely unsucessful and would be in this case I think because bin Laden would hole up in some cave and survive. So that means either bombing cities, sending in troops or both. I fear that sending in troops might be a Vietnam 2.0 and simply be a waste of American lives. Once again the choice is American or Afghani lives. I would obviously support only going after non-civilian targets first - military locations, Taliban government buildings, etc. If that worked then great, we don't have to kill innocents. Now if the terrorists had "merely" attacked the Pentagon with a car bomb or missle then I would not support any kind of action against civilians. In my mind the Pentagon and other military things are "valid" for attacks. But when people use civilian aircraft to attack military and civilian targets we need to play hardball. Everything I've said assumes that bin Laden did the attack which most news reports are starting to say and that Afghanistan will not hand him over, which I also think is possible. If "Bob" from Iran did it I would support the same thing. Do you *really* think that letting more Americans die in the future because of a failure of the US to take drastic enough action is not an evil crime? Coming from Britian you may think differently from us but your country did the same thing last time they suffered an attack of this magnitude. (WW2) Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 19:29:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:29:07 EDT Subject: [geeks] More thoughts Message-ID: <20010913003044.GTEY22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> I've been thinking more about this and talked it over with my dad. Give Afghanistan a week to turn him over. If they don't immediately start firebombing every city into the ground. Torch any cluster of buildings. Even if bin Laden didn't do it we want him for other crimes and now the kid gloves come off. Tell Russia they can have what's left of Afghanistan after we're done bombing it. I heard that the group fighting the Taliban claimed responsibility, kill them too. And any other group that claims responsibility. If other countries are harboring suspected terrorists give them a list and the same week. Also, drop interest rates and restart commercial air traffic now. Make a law making it illegal to give control of plane to hijackers. The pilot would have to land at the nearest airport and let SWAT teams deal with the hijackers. I think the Air Marshalls are an excellent idea. As I think I've said here before, the Pentagon is one of the most distressing things out of all of this. Why was that plane not shot down by SAMs? Simply exploding the jet fuel would have done away with most of the power of a plane to do damage. The fires are another mystery, why did they burn for so long? What is the effect, if any, of the documents which were lost, the papers and possibly hard drives which are scattered? Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 19:31:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 00:31:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, koyote wrote: > Bill- > mabe it's time to allow armed citizens (those with CCW permits or e5 and > above military personell) to carry on airplanes. I doubt this would have > worked against on averagely armed texan. IIRC, military personnel can carry anyway; if you have a FFL you can as well. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 19:48:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 12 Sep 2001 17:48:05 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86sndrapbu.fsf@koyote.cx> miltary personell can carry on a flight?!?! since when? I had my freaking *darts* confiscated on an AA flight when I was active duty. -Christof From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 20:05:31 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:05:31 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <86sndrapbu.fsf@koyote.cx> References: <86sndrapbu.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <20010912200531.D23360@mrbill.net> On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 05:48:05PM -0700, koyote at koyote.cx wrote: > miltary personell can carry on a flight?!?! since when? I had my freaking *darts* confiscated on an AA flight when I was active duty. AFAIK the only people who can carry are active law enforcement personnel (e.g., transporting prisoners). My mother is a cop, and she cant carry (has to check it) unless she's actively transporting someone in handcuffs.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 20:06:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 02:06:50 +0100 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... References: Message-ID: <001101c13bf0$71724ab0$0301a8c0@chimp> When you say "country heavily involved in terrorism" being subjected to a cold-war type government (by which I suspect you mean little in the way of human rights or freedoms, a state dictatorship if you will) do you really think this is what will/should happen in the countries that are the source of these attacks? If anything anywhere near what I think you're getting at emerges from this situation I think it could be us who are the people living in nations/states where liberties are take from... us for the sake of security. To me, lack of autonomy and therefore an absence of terrorism do not seem to go hand-in-hand. Will. ----- Original Message ----- From: "koyote" > I don't want to kill random people, but I'd rather see another cold war > era germany type of government for any country that is heavly involved in > terrorism than continued autonomy and more dead people > > -C From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 20:09:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:09:09 EDT Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: Message-ID: <01363210908.dave.8427@cca.org> kris at catonic.net writes: >On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, koyote wrote: >> Bill- >> mabe it's time to allow armed citizens (those with CCW permits or e5 and >> above military personell) to carry on airplanes. I doubt this would have >> worked against on averagely armed texan. >IIRC, military personnel can carry anyway; if you have a FFL you can as >well. I do not believe rank-and-file military can carry on commercial flights. A friend of mine who specializes in NBC for the National Guard was telling me he wanted to get into some federal anti-terrorist branch of the military, and one cool thing was that he'd be able to carry on flights. So I don't think normal military can. I'll be seeing him tonight actually, maybe I'll remember to ask... -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- --------- "I prefer the ridiculous to the sublime." - James Chance --------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 20:29:24 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 12 Sep 2001 18:29:24 -0700 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... In-Reply-To: <001101c13bf0$71724ab0$0301a8c0@chimp> References: <001101c13bf0$71724ab0$0301a8c0@chimp> Message-ID: <86ofofanez.fsf@koyote.cx> When you say "country heavily involved in terrorism" being subjected to a cold-war type government (by which I suspect you mean little in the way of human rights or freedoms, a state dictatorship if you will) do you really think this is what will/should happen in the countries that are the source of these attacks? perhaps i wasn't clear. Hell, I know I wasn't clear. what i'm saying is that any nation (specific to mind are libya, iraq, algeria, and afghanistan) wiht heavy ties to terrorism and a track record of protection (refusal to cooperate with other nations, harboring terrorist figures) should perhaps be forced to submit to outside rule. what I mean by this, specifically is a coalition supervisory government (maybe under the auspices of the UN) which supervises the national government. The way gernamy was supposed to be, perhaps, instead of the way it was. I think that this, in the case of the specific nations cited, would end up with more liberties for the average citizen than those which they manage to have now. to take it the rest of the way (flame proof suit on) I'm an imperialist at heart. I see no reason not to have a few more states. but that's just an aside. -Christof From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 20:34:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:34:54 -0500 Subject: [geeks] McCain's calling for war... In-Reply-To: <001101c13bf0$71724ab0$0301a8c0@chimp> References: <001101c13bf0$71724ab0$0301a8c0@chimp> Message-ID: <9932698750.20010912203454@crosswinds.net> WMD> When you say "country heavily involved in terrorism" being subjected to a WMD> cold-war type government (by which I suspect you mean little in the way of WMD> human rights or freedoms, a state dictatorship if you will) do you really WMD> think this is what will/should happen in the countries that are the source WMD> of these attacks? _NOT_. They'll operate as if they're under war and just go about a day-to-day war-type schedule. They're really already under those type of conditions already so it won't be a big change for them. WMD> If anything anywhere near what I think you're getting at emerges from this WMD> situation I think it could be us who are the people living in nations/states WMD> where liberties are take from... us for the sake of security. Welcome to the excuse to institute 1984. Expect to see pushes to hand over encryption keys, loss of the ability to possess handguns of any type, restrictions on Concealed Carry and FFL, removal of and of the restrictions on "unreasonable search and seizure". I honestly don't think people are being paranoid enough about this. WMD> To me, lack of autonomy and therefore an absence of terrorism do not seem to WMD> go hand-in-hand. I agree. Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 20:45:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Rob) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sounds like at the minimum, bring back the skymarshal program. This would have armed guards on airplanes to discourage terrorist actions on airplanes. I wouldn't mind CCW on airplanes either however. - Rob On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, koyote wrote: > > > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:18:18PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > > > "Hijacked with knives", WITH KNIVES. A decently strong lockable door on > > > our planes would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. > > > > A locked door doesent stop "open the door or I start killing people". > > Bill- > mabe it's time to allow armed citizens (those with CCW permits or e5 and > above military personell) to carry on airplanes. I doubt this would have > worked against on averagely armed texan. > > -Christof > > (excuse the email, I'm stuck off site with a broke down car > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > -- > > Bill Bradford > > mrbill at mrbill.net > > Austin, TX > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 21:01:37 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I really like the idea of sky marshals, but my thought is two different agencies each post one marshal to each flight, independantly both under cover. Nick On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Rob wrote: > Sounds like at the minimum, bring back the skymarshal program. This would > have armed guards on airplanes to discourage terrorist actions on > airplanes. I wouldn't mind CCW on airplanes either however. > > - Rob > > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, koyote wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:18:18PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > > > > "Hijacked with knives", WITH KNIVES. A decently strong lockable door on > > > > our planes would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. > > > > > > A locked door doesent stop "open the door or I start killing people". > > > > Bill- > > mabe it's time to allow armed citizens (those with CCW permits or e5 and > > above military personell) to carry on airplanes. I doubt this would have > > worked against on averagely armed texan. > > > > -Christof > > > > (excuse the email, I'm stuck off site with a broke down car > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > -- > > > Bill Bradford > > > mrbill at mrbill.net > > > Austin, TX > > > _______________________________________________ > > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 21:02:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 12 Sep 2001 19:02:45 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010912205214.J2437@zilla.nu> References: <20010912205214.J2437@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <86k7z3alve.fsf@koyote.cx> >I think it's patently stupid to allow folks to carry standard loads on >airplanes, and I doubt they could enforce what ammo is carried. enforcing the ammo is easy. take off your gun, airport checks loads and you go through metal detector. and standard loads are a LOT less tupid than what happened yesterday. -Christof From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 21:04:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010912205214.J2437@zilla.nu> Message-ID: I agree. Most weapons that I'd be intrested in carrying would punch straight through most airplane walls if I missed, or heck, possibly even if I didn't. Planes can't take that kind of abuse. Nick On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 12:31:33AM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, koyote wrote: > > > Bill- > > > mabe it's time to allow armed citizens (those with CCW permits or e5 and > > > above military personell) to carry on airplanes. I doubt this would have > > > worked against on averagely armed texan. > > > > IIRC, military personnel can carry anyway; if you have a FFL you can as > > well. > > I think it's patently stupid to allow folks to carry standard loads on > airplanes, and I doubt they could enforce what ammo is carried. > > Reagen > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 21:06:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 12 Sep 2001 19:06:32 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86g09ralp3.fsf@koyote.cx> >Sounds like at the minimum, bring back the skymarshal program. This would >have armed guards on airplanes to discourage terrorist actions on >airplanes. I wouldn't mind CCW on airplanes either however. no arguments. I wouldn't mind seeing all those ex-mil pilots armed, either. I've taken a suprising amount of flack for the CCW on aircraft stance in other forums. People seem to HATE the idea of citizens being in control of anything. it's depressing. -Christof From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 21:13:25 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D.A. Muran-de Assereto) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:13:25 -0400 Subject: [geeks] More thoughts In-Reply-To: <20010913003044.GTEY22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: > > > As I think I've said here before, the Pentagon is one of the most > distressing things out of all of this. Why was that plane not shot down > by SAMs? Simply exploding the jet fuel would have done away with most > of the power of a plane to do damage. The fires are another mystery, > why did they burn for so long? The reason the plane was shot down is simple. The Pentagon is less than two miles from Reagan National Airport. Unless an Air Defense commander had an incontrovertible reason to believe that the aircraft was bent on destruction, he would not fire for fear of killing innocent civilians. Remember the Vicennes, near Iran? This country has a long flirtation with the idea of killing innocent civilians in order to defend ourselves. As an example, we will not fire upon unidentified aircraft entering our ADIZ. We simply WILL NOT. We don't shoot down drug traffickers who routinely fly over our country; no matter that they could easily be carrying some other lethal cargo than cocaine; the risk of killing a comm-out civilian is too great. OTOH, we almost require other countries to shoot down unidentified probable drug traffickers in order to be certified and continue to receive counterdrug monies. This is blatant hypocrisy, and makes us look like fools in many Latin American countries. Because of a long history of questionable military and intelligence operations, and our national obsession with self-examination and love of blame, we in many cases lost our political will. Granted, many of the questionable operations were abominably stupid (Castro's poisoned cigars, for example), but, instead of identifying the idiots in question and making them pay the price of their stupidity, we have overhauled the system in an attmept to keep mistakes from every happening. As a consequence, we have taken away many of our own instruments of national power. As an aside, has anyone else noticed the new law being proposed which will make "leaks" prosecutable? One of the folk mentioned as primary sponsor is the John Deutch (sp?) ex-director of the CIA who kept highly-classified documents on his personal computer at home. You know, the one connected to the internet. The one his kids used to connect to porn sites. He was not prosecuted.... Dave Muran-de Assereto > > What is the effect, if any, of the documents which were lost, the > papers and possibly hard drives which are scattered? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 21:19:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D.A. Muran-de Assereto) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:19:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010912205214.J2437@zilla.nu> Message-ID: IIRC, the US skymarshal program wasn't exceptionally effective. I believe the Brits use of SASmen on aircraft and the Israeli program worked out well, though. Also keep in mind that the terrs are quite capable of getting permits and registering weapons if it will make their terrorist actions easier. These folks do not magically appear here, ready to perform some sort of horrendous act; they have support networks throughout the world, just as the Cold War spy networks did. According to some sources, the primary source of PIRA financing is.....Boston, Massachusetts. PIRA and Sinn Fein (sp?) leaders used to regularly visit Boston to acquire money and support. Dave Muran-de Assereto > -----Original Message----- > From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf > Of Reagen B. Ward > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 21:52 > To: geeks at sunhelp.org > Subject: Re: [geeks] Hijacked > > > On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 12:31:33AM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, koyote wrote: > > > Bill- > > > mabe it's time to allow armed citizens (those with CCW > permits or e5 and > > > above military personell) to carry on airplanes. I doubt this > would have > > > worked against on averagely armed texan. > > > > IIRC, military personnel can carry anyway; if you have a FFL you can as > > well. > > I think it's patently stupid to allow folks to carry standard loads on > airplanes, and I doubt they could enforce what ammo is carried. > > Reagen > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 21:22:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:22:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I agree. Most weapons that I'd be intrested in carrying would punch > straight through most airplane walls if I missed, or heck, possibly even > if I didn't. Planes can't take that kind of abuse. > Nick Tranquilizer darts. You'd be hard pressed to punch one of those through the fuselage. From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 22:02:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:02:16 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010912220216.K23360@mrbill.net> On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 09:45:02PM -0400, Rob wrote: > Sounds like at the minimum, bring back the skymarshal program. This would > have armed guards on airplanes to discourage terrorist actions on > airplanes. I wouldn't mind CCW on airplanes either however. They're doing this, according to what I've read today. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 22:10:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:10:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: <86g09ralp3.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <07fb01c13c01$9fe651f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > I've taken a suprising amount of flack for the CCW on aircraft stance in other forums. People seem to HATE the idea of citizens being in control of anything. it's depressing. > I personally don't think that allowing CCW civilians to carry on planes is *entirely* good. However - I'm listening. There may be a good way to do that - but I don't know what it is. I'm interested though, and wondering who that would include - mostly LEOs I'm sure. *That* can't be entirely bad - since we trust those guys to carry on the streets anyway. Perhaps deputizing any LEOs that get on a plane? LEOs and family fly for half price? I think that might be doable. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 22:20:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:20:13 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: Message-ID: <080c01c13c03$03f71f20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > Tranquilizer darts. You'd be hard pressed to punch one of those through > the fuselage. > Paintball pistol loaded with pepperball rounds (www.pepperball.net). No - not foolproof - but guaranteed not to pierce the fuselage. It also is a "proximity" weapon - it has a radius of something like 3 feet. Tranquilizer darts, while safe for the airplane, must hit the *target* to be effective. I've been trying to score a few through a freind (former LEO) to check em out. A few other pop into mind - stun guns, tazers, pepper spray, and so on. I for one am interested in the types of "safe" or less-destructive weapons we may be seeing in the next couple of years as some sort of sky-marshall program is implemented. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 22:21:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:21:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: <20010912220216.K23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <080f01c13c03$3f50c170$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > Sounds like at the minimum, bring back the skymarshal program. This would > > have armed guards on airplanes to discourage terrorist actions on > > airplanes. I wouldn't mind CCW on airplanes either however. > > They're doing this, according to what I've read today. Same here - I would *really* like to see this. I haven't seen anything concrete, but indications are that it's being considered again. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 22:38:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 03:38:43 +0000 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked Message-ID: <20010913033843.WIIL28026.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> True. $2.50 for a 20 oz Pepsi. $7.50 for what looks like Chicken McNuggests extra value meal. No way! I really don't like parks that walk you through a metal detector and search your bags. What's next, body cavity searches? I know. With the recent events, security is on everybody's mind but I don't like being treated as if I'm going to do something evil, especially when they checked you more thoroughly than at an airport (until recently). > On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 wa2egp at att.net wrote: > > > No, I haven't :-> but I did get stopped for trying to > > walk into a Six Flags park with 26 cents in my pocket. > > I thought that they stop you getting out with any money > left in your pocket? =) > > --Kurt > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 23:01:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 12 Sep 2001 21:01:55 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <07fb01c13c01$9fe651f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <86g09ralp3.fsf@koyote.cx> <07fb01c13c01$9fe651f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <867kv3agcs.fsf@koyote.cx> >I personally don't think that allowing CCW civilians to carry on planes is >*entirely* good. However - I'm listening. listening helps :) >There may be a good way to do that - but I don't know what it is. I'm >interested though, and wondering who that would include - mostly LEOs I'm >sure. *That* can't be entirely bad - since we trust those guys to carry on >the streets anyway. We trust certain citizens to carry on the streets, too. as far as weapons go, they are dangerous to have on aircraft. I know a bit about how decom feels. I can't say that playing boot hill on a commercial aircraft is a good idea, but i can't say it's worse than what happened yesterday. requirements: foreign nationals do not generally get CCW permits. adn something like this would almost necessitate a federal licensing and qualification program for this type of permit extension. keeping this type of ability out of the hands of terrorists isn't the same as trying to keep them from buying windows 2000. >Perhaps deputizing any LEOs that get on a plane? LEOs and family fly for >half price? I think that might be doable. hell yes. i just do NOT like the idea of this being restricted to law enforcement personell. I may have some unpopular atavistic tendencies, but I really don't trust governments, and making people *more* reliant on any arm of strikes me as bad. if i had to go through another background check (please just reference the ones i went through in the military and be done with it?) some straining (even if I had to pay for it), and special ammunition requirements. *shrug* I'd do it. I don't mean to bring heavy politics into this. I think it relates right now to some very important issues. i think maybe the level of disarmament in america has gotten dangerous..... -Christof From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 23:24:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 04:24:45 +0000 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked Message-ID: <20010913042446.FQUQ8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Maybe we should just put the passengers to sleep with a knockout gas. Can't hijack a plane when you're asleep. > > > > Tranquilizer darts. You'd be hard pressed to punch one of those through > > the fuselage. > > > > Paintball pistol loaded with pepperball rounds (www.pepperball.net). No - > not foolproof - but guaranteed not to pierce the fuselage. It also is a > "proximity" weapon - it has a radius of something like 3 feet. Tranquilizer > darts, while safe for the airplane, must hit the *target* to be effective. > > I've been trying to score a few through a freind (former LEO) to check em > out. > > A few other pop into mind - stun guns, tazers, pepper spray, and so on. I > for one am interested in the types of "safe" or less-destructive weapons we > may be seeing in the next couple of years as some sort of sky-marshall > program is implemented. > > Kurt > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 12 23:27:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 00:27:04 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: References: <20010911181812.E23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010913002704.A17912@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 06:05:46PM -0700, koyote wrote: > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 07:18:18PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > > > "Hijacked with knives", WITH KNIVES. A decently strong lockable door on > > > our planes would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. > > > > A locked door doesent stop "open the door or I start killing people". > > Bill- > mabe it's time to allow armed citizens (those with CCW permits or e5 and > above military personell) to carry on airplanes. I doubt this would have > worked against on averagely armed texan. > > -Christof CCW permits? Do you mean conceal weapons permit? My question is what if you miss the terrorist and hit an exterior wall? In most cases, this would be worse then letting things just play themselves out, wouldn't it? -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 00:18:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 00:18:02 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <080c01c13c03$03f71f20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <080c01c13c03$03f71f20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010913001802.U23360@mrbill.net> On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 11:20:13PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Paintball pistol loaded with pepperball rounds (www.pepperball.net). No - > not foolproof - but guaranteed not to pierce the fuselage. It also is a > "proximity" weapon - it has a radius of something like 3 feet. Tranquilizer > darts, while safe for the airplane, must hit the *target* to be effective. Now *that* is cool. Wonder if they sell to the general public. Throw 10 of those at random in your paintball hopper to add an extra "oomph" to those paintball wars. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 01:24:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 01:24:48 -0500 Subject: [geeks] From the NY Post.. Message-ID: <20010913012448.Y23360@mrbill.net> SIMPLY KILL THESE BASTARDS By STEVE DUNLEAVY September 12, 2001 -- THE response to this unimaginable 21st century Pearl Harbor should be as simple as it is swift - kill the bastards. No, I don't mean hunt them, arrest them, extradite them and prosecute them in a court of law. I mean a far quicker and neater form of retribution for this cabal of cowards. A gunshot between the eyes, blow them to smithereens, poison them if you have to. President George W. Bush should right now be putting his name to a fresh document - one that rescinds Executive Order 12333, signed by President Gerald Ford on Feb. 18, 1976. It reads in part: "No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States should engage in assassination or conspire to engage in assassination." Right for that time, wrong for this time. Train assassins (we've done it before), hire mercenaries, put a couple of million bucks up for bounty hunters to get them dead or alive, preferably dead. As for cities or countries that host these worms, bomb them into basketball courts. No, it won't bring back the thousands of innocents and the brave cops and firefighters lost, but it might stop the sacrifice of other innocents. "This is an act of war of an enormity that is staggering," Sen. John McCain of Arizona said yesterday. Former Secretary of State Gen. Alexander Haig said: "We should be ready to take resolute action, which we have failed to in the past." The point is that Osama bin Laden has been at war with us for a decade - make no mistake, he's behind the attacks. At the beginning of the year, he issued a video to his followers urging them "to penetrate" the United States. Only three weeks ago, he was quoted in an Arabic newspaper saying he was preparing a big action against our country. He is the sole individual who has the billions of dollars, the training camps and the fanatics to have perpetrated this sophisticated bloodbath. Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich said yesterday: "This wasn't planned in a handful of homes by a handful of fanatics." When we put a rocket in the pocket of Moammar Khadafy, he went as quiet as a mouse. If the CIA can't find this ameba Osama Bin Laden, leave it to someone else. We should give the Taliban, which protects this monster, 24 hours to clear the city of Kabul of innocent civilians and then start the process of urban renewal with high-altitude bombing. Then we should go into the interior, hunt down the desert rat and execute him and his followers on the spot. And if Saddam Hussein makes so much as a peep, do him, too. The time has come. -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 01:25:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 02:25:20 -0400 Subject: [geeks] From the NY Post.. In-Reply-To: <20010913012448.Y23360@mrbill.net> References: <20010913012448.Y23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <01091302254306.00715@two-time.twmaster.com> Amen Brother Bill. Mike N On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, you wrote: > SIMPLY KILL THESE BASTARDS > > By STEVE DUNLEAVY > > September 12, 2001 -- THE response to this unimaginable > 21st century Pearl Harbor should be as simple as it is swift - > kill the bastards. > > No, I don't mean hunt them, arrest them, extradite them and > prosecute them in a court of law. > > I mean a far quicker and neater form of retribution for this > cabal of cowards. A gunshot between the eyes, blow them > to smithereens, poison them if you have to. > > President George W. Bush should right now be putting his > name to a fresh document - one that rescinds Executive > Order 12333, signed by President Gerald Ford on Feb. 18, > 1976. > > It reads in part: "No person employed by or acting on behalf > of the United States should engage in assassination or > conspire to engage in assassination." > > Right for that time, wrong for this time. > > Train assassins (we've done it before), hire mercenaries, put > a couple of million bucks up for bounty hunters to get them > dead or alive, preferably dead. > > As for cities or countries that host these worms, bomb them > into basketball courts. > > No, it won't bring back the thousands of innocents and the > brave cops and firefighters lost, but it might stop the sacrifice > of other innocents. > > "This is an act of war of an enormity that is staggering," Sen. > John McCain of Arizona said yesterday. > > Former Secretary of State Gen. Alexander Haig said: "We > should be ready to take resolute action, which we have failed > to in the past." > > The point is that Osama bin Laden has been at war with us > for a decade - make no mistake, he's behind the attacks. > > At the beginning of the year, he issued a video to his > followers urging them "to penetrate" the United States. > > Only three weeks ago, he was quoted in an Arabic > newspaper saying he was preparing a big action against our > country. > > He is the sole individual who has the billions of dollars, the > training camps and the fanatics to have perpetrated this > sophisticated bloodbath. > > Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich said yesterday: > "This wasn't planned in a handful of homes by a handful of > fanatics." > > When we put a rocket in the pocket of Moammar Khadafy, > he went as quiet as a mouse. > > If the CIA can't find this ameba Osama Bin Laden, leave it > to someone else. > > We should give the Taliban, which protects this monster, 24 > hours to clear the city of Kabul of innocent civilians and then > start the process of urban renewal with high-altitude > bombing. > > Then we should go into the interior, hunt down the desert rat > and execute him and his followers on the spot. > > And if Saddam Hussein makes so much as a peep, do him, > too. > > The time has come. > > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 01:47:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 12 Sep 2001 23:47:00 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <20010913002704.A17912@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20010911181812.E23360@mrbill.net> <20010913002704.A17912@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <863d5ra8pn.fsf@koyote.cx> >My question is what if you miss the terrorist and hit an exterior >wall? In most cases, this would be worse then letting things just play >themselves out, wouldn't it? Not tueday. and I've been through decompression. it's not a nuclear bomb. *shrug* i guess it depends on how you feel about it. i'd rather try and make a safe landing in a 2 egnines down 747 than let *any* hijacker succeed *ever* again. I think it's time to say enough is enough. -Christof From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 02:30:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua Goins) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 03:30:54 -0400 Subject: [geeks] on a lighter note Message-ID: <20010913033053.A7742@intelos.net> It has been suggested that perhaps the WTC should be rebuilt like this. http://www.filepile.org:8080/f/pictures/rebuilding_the_wtc.jpg It seems appropriate to me anyway... -- Joshua Goins From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 04:16:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 05:16:13 -0400 Subject: [geeks] on a lighter note Message-ID: <01c13c34$bbcfac80$c6b310ca@powerlite> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Goins To: geeks at mrbill.net Date: Thursday, September 13, 2001 3:37 AM Subject: [geeks] on a lighter note >It has been suggested that perhaps the WTC should be rebuilt like >this. > >http://www.filepile.org:8080/f/pictures/rebuilding_the_wtc.jpg > >It seems appropriate to me anyway... > You may say something like the message is camoflaged :) Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 04:57:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:57:01 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] God bless America In-Reply-To: <20010912222809.21E1011CE6@ohno.mrbill.net>; from rescue-request@sunhelp.org on Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 05:28:09PM -0500 References: <20010912222809.21E1011CE6@ohno.mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010913105700.A22198@plough.barnyard.co.uk> [taken to geeks cos it's waaaaay off-topic. flames will be ignored] BSD Bob wrote: > Why is it that terrorists of any kind, never learn from history but > always choose to repeat it... For the same reason that the US doesn't seem to learn from history but always chooses to repeat it. People are stupid. But you really should consider that terrorism has proved to be rather effective in the past. It has achieved a great deal for people all over the world, ranging from the state of Israel (founded by terrorists), South Africa, Ireland (both the republic and the occupied zone), France, and others. "G W Adkins" wrote: > And [we should kill] those groups who blamed our foreigh policy for > these attacks I guess that includes me then. I don't think many Americans realise quite how much they are hated by the huge numbers of people who are victims of your government's foreign policies. You crow about your much-vaunted democracy, and yet you fail to use your democracy to elect decent people, instead electing racist war-mongers. THAT is how much of the world sees you, and your failure to use that democracy, unfortunately, makes many see individual citizens as being the enemy. Y'know, I find the vile reaction of a great many American citizens who I had thought were decent, intelligent people to be far more disturbing than the attack itself. That 'only' killed a few thousand people, but there are literally *hundreds* of thousands of innocent casualties of US foreign policy. And now, there seems to be a clamour to make even more of them. There's plenty of you (both on this list and more generally) who should be ashamed of yourselves. I imagine that most will be when they get over the immediate emotional impact. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation. -- Johnny Hart From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 05:03:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael S. Schiller) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 06:03:30 -0400 Subject: [geeks] My take References: <20010912233629.FCZH22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: <3BA08472.B72BA1DC@agrijag.com> Mike Dombrowski wrote: > Having thought about it more I'd still have to say yes. When we say to > Afghanistan "Hand over bin Laden or be bombed" they have to realize > that we are serious and to start evacuating cities if they don't want > to hand him over. > Mike, I fully agree with you! I think the point should be made that if a country harbors a known terrorist that they're putting themselves (their whole country) at a major risk is the only way to get these countries to stop supporting terrorists. Once a few countries realize this, and the terrorists have fewer and fewer places that are a safe haven for them I think the terror might start to slow down or end. -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 05:13:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:13:47 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: ; from jsharp@psychoses.org on Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 10:22:54PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010913111347.B22198@plough.barnyard.co.uk> On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 10:22:54PM -0400, James Sharp wrote: > > I agree. Most weapons that I'd be intrested in carrying would punch > > straight through most airplane walls if I missed, or heck, possibly even > > if I didn't. Planes can't take that kind of abuse. > > Nick > > Tranquilizer darts. You'd be hard pressed to punch one of those through > the fuselage. You'd also be hard-pressed to have it be effective. They don't stop someone *immediately* and it is very obvious to the people hit by them what has happened. If I was the terrorist and you shot me with a tranq dart, I'd start shooting and blowing things up, and damn the consequences cos I would *know* that I had no hope of a fair hearing if I let them take me. Oh, GOOD sigmonster! -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david The voices said it's a good day to clean my weapons From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 05:53:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:53:00 +0100 Subject: [geeks] My take In-Reply-To: <20010912233629.FCZH22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com>; from legodude@hammycorp.com on Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 07:34:54PM -0400 References: <20010912233629.FCZH22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> Message-ID: <20010913115259.A23107@plough.barnyard.co.uk> On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 07:34:54PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > Do you *really* think that letting more Americans die in the future > because of a failure of the US to take drastic enough action is not an > evil crime? If you consider that the alternative is to become that which you most despise* - that is, to gratuitously slaughter innocents - then it seems to be the lesser of two evils. The only way you could possibly justify it would be to say that Americans are somehow worth more than others. > Coming from Britian you may think differently from us but > your country did the same thing last time they suffered an attack of > this magnitude. (WW2) Yes, I know. And as far as I'm concerned, the people who made those decisions are criminals**. Of course, the situation is radically different. We were at war. You are not. But even so, the destruction of (eg) Dresden and Hamburg and the slaughter of their populations was an act of appalling barbarism which will live in infamy just as other terrorist attacks do. * - not that your govt doesn't do that already. ** - they're all dead now though -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david The voices said it's a good day to clean my weapons From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 06:20:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Amy) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 06:20:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] God bless America In-Reply-To: <20010913105700.A22198@plough.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010913052150.N1805-100000@feeding.frenzy.com> note: i apologize for my at-times rhetoric below, but its something i honestly feel and believe. don't laugh at my idiocy before you think about it first. *** On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, David Cantrell wrote: > [taken to geeks cos it's waaaaay off-topic. flames will be ignored] i had no idea things had begun to get this bad on the other lists. i suppose i was remiss/naive in believing bill when he said things were 'under control'. first off, you've made some excellent points whether people agree with them or not. > For the same reason that the US doesn't seem to learn from history but > always chooses to repeat it. People are stupid. stupid, ignorant, or naive? the average american has little knowledge of world history (let alone the history of western civilization). the majority of us weren't taught it, never read it, or simply have forgotten much of it due to feeling far too safe/secure for far too long. if any history is taught its usually a miss-mosh of condensed american history for one semester. thats about 16 weeks to absorb 500 years--and you can bet it didnt cover the political aspects of europe or foreign policy of spain in 1492. i spent 5 years studying western civilization prior to the middle ages. the one thing that was as apparent to me at 14 as it is now is that much of the middle east and europe has been at war due to X god since before christ. so apparently *noone* has learned from history. not them, not us, not you, not nato, not anyone if we're gonna sit here and spend our time placing blame instead of fixing the problems. united we stand and united we will all fall as long as religious ideals are in the mix somewhere. there is no good that comes from arguing and fighting people who are willing to die for their own martyrhood. > But you really should consider that terrorism has proved to be rather > effective in the past. effective, yes. its already achieved some very good (and very horrific) results here in the states. ones i hope wont be forgotten next week when all of our mortgages are due. > > And [we should kill] those groups who blamed our foreigh policy for > > these attacks > > I guess that includes me then. I don't think many Americans realise quite > how much they are hated by the huge numbers of people who are victims of > your government's foreign policies. You crow about your much-vaunted > democracy, and yet you fail to use your democracy to elect decent people, > instead electing racist war-mongers. THAT is how much of the world sees > you, and your failure to use that democracy, unfortunately, makes many > see individual citizens as being the enemy. i'm of the opinion that you are absolutely correct in this. david, i'm sure statistics are available somewhere from your recent elections up there. how much of the voting populace participated in the latest p.m. race? > Y'know, I find the vile reaction of a great many American citizens who I > had thought were decent, intelligent people to be far more disturbing than > the attack itself. understand i am making no excuses here for anyone but i believe at least some explanations are overdue. many of us talking dont remember a time of war or what it is/was like, we were too busy to pay attention, or simply didnt worry since we were hell and gone from the action. that ignorance and naivety is hurting us now. give the people time to think and recover from all this and you might find a few changed minds, policies, and agendas. as for my own opinion, i feel very strongly that i've heard and seen enough of blood being shed to last another few lifetimes. many people want revenge; all i want is justice. justice doesnt mean turning a country into a sheet of glass in order to find one man or punish a country for harboring a known and wanted terrorist. if it were, that country might well be our own for all 'we the people' know--the hijackers involved were living in florida for god's sake. WE HARBORED THESE PEOPLE. justice may mean extradition and a trial. justice may mean whoever is responsible going door to door for the rest of his life and apologizing for his directives. justice might be his ostracization from all societies (a truly historical way of dealing with infidels, look it up) because noone knows why all this was done because we've been force fed the ideal of not seeing the big picture for so long. we assumed people we elected were doing their jobs and we were comfortable being led along like sheep to a slaughterhouse as long as our bills were paid, our kids were healty and our employment secure. > That 'only' killed a few thousand people, but there > are literally *hundreds* of thousands of innocent casualties of US foreign > policy. And now, there seems to be a clamour to make even more of them. > There's plenty of you (both on this list and more generally) who should be > ashamed of yourselves. I imagine that most will be when they get over the > immediate emotional impact. am i ashamed of myself? when given my only choice between two evils and i chose the least evil? no. am i ashamed of my countrymen who are calling for the slaughter of millions and have for years? yes. am i ashamed of my country three days ago that tended to jump the gun in order to look like mr. bad-ass? absolutely, yes. am i ashamed of my country *today*, where my president is taking his time to identify fully and completely those responsible before any further action is taken and seems to be listening to the sane minority of people and majority of world leaders when they say war and further bloodshed is not necessary for justice? hell no, and neither should you or anyone else. for one of the first times, people here are waking up to a different world. let it sink in, let them think. then, instead of throwing blame, support us in our ignorance and show us gently what its like to be civilized. only then can we all stand united and live at peace. --a From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 07:08:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:08:07 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: <080c01c13c03$03f71f20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010913001802.U23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <083f01c13c4c$c4e927c0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 11:20:13PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > Paintball pistol loaded with pepperball rounds (www.pepperball.net). No - > > not foolproof - but guaranteed not to pierce the fuselage. It also is a > > "proximity" weapon - it has a radius of something like 3 feet. Tranquilizer > > darts, while safe for the airplane, must hit the *target* to be effective. > > Now *that* is cool. Wonder if they sell to the general public. Throw > 10 of those at random in your paintball hopper to add an extra "oomph" to > those paintball wars. 8-) > Did a quick search this morning and found an LA Times article that says that there's a bill in CA making it's way though legislation to do just that. However - all indications seem to point that Jaycor wants to sell a specialized and proprietary launcher about the size of a flashlight - cost ~$200. Not that I *dislike* the idea - but I hope that they'll allow those of us with paintball guns to buy just the pepperballs. Now I can't find the URL - but here's a link to another one that basically says the same thing. http://www.thesandiegochannel.com/sand/news/stories/news-89517720010730-0907 20.html Of course, police organizations oppose the idea... I'm not sure if I like the idea that a states legislation is passing a law to allow civilians to buy them, or if I'm disgusted that a states legislation had to step in to allow civilians to buy them. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 09:12:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:12:05 -0400 Subject: [geeks] From the NY Post.. References: <20010913012448.Y23360@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <003501c13c5e$12692e80$0501000a@laboffice> Come again? Do you really wish for the US to be executing leaders who we do not approve of again? As I understand it, before that law was passed, the CIA in particular, was very busy knocking of leaders of socialistic/communist countries and dictators who choose to side with Russia, especially in Africa and South America. I do not think we should return to such a policy, over time it will lead to a return to the practice of killing leaders who get in the was of the US government, whether or not said leader has done anything other then oppose the US. Zach > It reads in part: "No person employed by or acting on behalf > of the United States should engage in assassination or > conspire to engage in assassination." > > Right for that time, wrong for this time. From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 11:12:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:12:52 -0500 Subject: [geeks] remove cover from C110 HP? Message-ID: <20010913111252.K24473@mrbill.net> ANybody know how to open up a HP C110? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 11:35:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:35:57 -0500 Subject: [geeks] remove cover from C110 HP? In-Reply-To: <20010913113258.T2437@zilla.nu> References: <20010913111252.K24473@mrbill.net> <20010913113258.T2437@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010913113556.L24473@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 11:32:58AM -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 11:12:52AM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > > ANybody know how to open up a HP C110? > Thumbscrews. Unscrewed the thumbscrews. pulled on the handle. wont budge. Got the floppy tray out tho. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 11:36:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael S. Schiller) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:36:50 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked References: <86g09ralp3.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <3BA0E0A2.91A26FA4@agrijag.com> Christof: More pro-gun than me you can't get, but this is one case where I have to disagree with you. The average citizen (heck, even the non average ones) wouldn't know the proper procedures for shooting within a pressurized cabin of an aircraft. I'm an NRA certified instructor, and I haven't got a clue what special requirements there might be. Skymarshalls use special loads, AND special training. And just so you know, as far as I'm concerned, the second amendment has been broken (by the government) since the GCA of 1934 as far as I'm concerned. If you're interested, email me off list, and I'll explain my position. -Mike koyote at koyote.cx wrote: > >Sounds like at the minimum, bring back the skymarshal program. This would > >have armed guards on airplanes to discourage terrorist actions on > >airplanes. I wouldn't mind CCW on airplanes either however. > > no arguments. I wouldn't mind seeing all those ex-mil pilots armed, either. > > I've taken a suprising amount of flack for the CCW on aircraft stance in other forums. People seem to HATE the idea of citizens being in control of anything. it's depressing. > > -Christof > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 11:46:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:46:34 -0500 Subject: [geeks] remove cover from C110 HP? In-Reply-To: <20010913113556.L24473@mrbill.net> References: <20010913111252.K24473@mrbill.net> <20010913113258.T2437@zilla.nu> <20010913113556.L24473@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010913114634.M24473@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 11:35:57AM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > Unscrewed the thumbscrews. pulled on the handle. wont budge. > Got the floppy tray out tho. > Bill Got it figured out, and got everything reseated. Powers up now, whee! Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 13:06:21 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 13 Sep 2001 11:06:21 -0700 Subject: [geeks] From the NY Post.. In-Reply-To: <003501c13c5e$12692e80$0501000a@laboffice> References: <20010913012448.Y23360@mrbill.net> <003501c13c5e$12692e80$0501000a@laboffice> Message-ID: <86pu8v7yoy.fsf@koyote.cx> >Come again? Do you really wish for the US to be executing leaders who we do >not approve of again? As I understand it, before that law was passed, the >CIA in particular, was very busy knocking of leaders of >socialistic/communist countries and dictators who choose to side with >Russia, especially in Africa and South America. I do not think we should >return to such a policy, over time it will lead to a return to the practice >of killing leaders who get in the was of the US government, whether or not >said leader has done anything other then oppose the US. > Zach Ah yes! the days when we offed 5 world leaders a week! we must have killed 15,000 politicians! Assassinating bin laden strikes me as more equitable that carpet bombing the country. -Christof From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 13:09:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 13 Sep 2001 11:09:43 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <3BA0E0A2.91A26FA4@agrijag.com> References: <86g09ralp3.fsf@koyote.cx> <3BA0E0A2.91A26FA4@agrijag.com> Message-ID: <86lmjj7yjc.fsf@koyote.cx> >More pro-gun than me you can't get, but this is one case >where I have to disagree with you. The average citizen (heck, >even the non average ones) wouldn't know the proper procedures >for shooting within a pressurized cabin of an aircraft. I'm >an NRA certified instructor, and I haven't got a clue what >special requirements there might be. I do allow for special training and certification programs. Hell, in this case, I'd demand them. with fingerprints. (not for owning the weapon, but so terrorists don't fake permits) >And just so you know, as far as I'm concerned, the second >amendment has been broken (by the government) since the GCA of >1934 as far as I'm concerned I tend to agree, though I do want to hear your particular take on it. thanks, Christof From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 13:15:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:15:39 EDT Subject: [geeks] My take Message-ID: <20010913181806.DZZD22533.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@mike.hammycorp.com> >> Do you *really* think that letting more Americans die in the future >> because of a failure of the US to take drastic enough action is not an >> evil crime? > >If you consider that the alternative is to become that which you most >despise* - that is, to gratuitously slaughter innocents - then it seems >to be the lesser of two evils. The only way you could possibly justify >it would be to say that Americans are somehow worth more than others. > >> Coming from Britian you may think differently from us but >> your country did the same thing last time they suffered an attack of >> this magnitude. (WW2) > >Yes, I know. And as far as I'm concerned, the people who made those >decisions are criminals**. Of course, the situation is radically different. >We were at war. You are not. But even so, the destruction of (eg) We are at war. They were at war. The situation is the same. I wonder what you would think if bin Laden did this to London then the Afghanis refused to turn him over and your government couldn't find him. "Oh well, let him and other terrorists blow up more of my countrymen"? I do not want to kill Afghanis just to "even the score." What is your opinion on the A-Bombs? Do you think that was wrong because in all probability is saved hundreds of thousands of both Japanese and American lives? If bombing Afghanistan into the ground would prevent a possible future biological attack on England which would kill hundreds of thousands what would you think? I usually go through life choosing the lesser of two evils, in this case the choice is bomb the Afghanis killing a small segment of the civilian population or loose many tens of thousands of people to terrorism in the future I choose the option which results in the least amount of deaths. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 13:20:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 13 Sep 2001 11:20:53 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] God bless America In-Reply-To: <20010913105700.A22198@plough.barnyard.co.uk> References: <20010912222809.21E1011CE6@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010913105700.A22198@plough.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <86heu77y0q.fsf@koyote.cx> >> And [we should kill] those groups who blamed our foreigh policy for >> these attacks >I guess that includes me then. I don't think many Americans realise quite >how much they are hated by the huge numbers of people who are victims of >your government's foreign policies. so.... lemme get this straight. you say that this attack is *excusable* or that the peoiple who died *deserved* it? We didn't *force* anyone to attack anything. This is like a 6 year old saying that I "made" her hit me because I wouldn't let her have ice cream. >You crow about your much-vaunted >democracy, and yet you fail to use your democracy to elect decent people, >instead electing racist war-mongers. one word, if you want to throw around this kind of crap. Thatcher. >Y'know, I find the vile reaction of a great many American citizens who I >had thought were decent, intelligent people to be far more disturbing than >the attack itself. I fail to see anything vile about wanting all of the terrorists dead. I not that I'm not in favor of carpet bombing any particular nation. I'm also not in favor of machine gunning innocent Indians, but that would be a different kind of foreign policy, perhaps. > That 'only' killed a few thousand people, but there >are literally *hundreds* of thousands of innocent casualties of US foreign >policy out of those hundreds of thusands, how many were in armed conflict, how many were directly killed innocents (I mean US citizen pulls trigger) and how many were the victims of another government misusing aid? We don't always make great choices about who we help, but overall, we *try*. Blaming the passengers of, say, flight 77, seems a bit far fetched. Personally, anyone who thinks that any of this justifies what happened tuesday is sick. -Christof From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 14:23:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:23:09 +0200 Subject: [geeks] remove cover from C110 HP? In-Reply-To: <20010913170125.2333811E1B@ohno.mrbill.net> References: <20010913170125.2333811E1B@ohno.mrbill.net> Message-ID: <1000408989.3ba1079d227c0@webmail.dds.nl> > On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 11:35:57AM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > > Unscrewed the thumbscrews. pulled on the handle. wont budge. > > Got the floppy tray out tho. > > Bill > > Got it figured out, and got everything reseated. Powers up now, whee! The only way I found, was to pick up the machine with the front facing up and shake it till the mainboard falls out. I have a C110 and a partial C100 (missing PS and memory, anybody interested in Europe?). I suspect there is a somewhat more acceptable way to take this machine apart, but someone with a B132L I talked to, also did it this way.... One thing to watch for: on both my machines the connector between the drive sled and the backplane was flaky. And since the power button is on the drive sled, you can have severe problems powering the machine up if you have just taken it apart and the drive sled isn't properly seated. The person I got these machines from couldn't get them to power on at all.... I'm also looking for memory and drives for this machine; the memory I found was 89 UKP per 128MB nad it uses HVD drives (also has a SE scsi chain, but that's only 5MB/s). regards, Michiel From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 15:06:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:06:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] From the NY Post.. In-Reply-To: <003501c13c5e$12692e80$0501000a@laboffice> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Zach Malone wrote: > Come again? Do you really wish for the US to be executing leaders who we do > not approve of again? As I understand it, before that law was passed, the > CIA in particular, was very busy knocking of leaders of > socialistic/communist countries and dictators who choose to side with > Russia, especially in Africa and South America. I do not think we should IIRC, we didn't do much assassination directly without a military operation. Several other countries (GB, etc) have using covert operatives, but we've stayed away from that, instead responding with military might toward small targets. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 15:07:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:07:26 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] God bless America In-Reply-To: <20010913052150.N1805-100000@feeding.frenzy.com>; from nospam@frenzy.com on Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 06:20:47AM -0500 References: <20010913105700.A22198@plough.barnyard.co.uk> <20010913052150.N1805-100000@feeding.frenzy.com> Message-ID: <20010913210726.A1780@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 06:20:47AM -0500, Amy wrote: > On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, David Cantrell wrote: > > For the same reason that the US doesn't seem to learn from history but > > always chooses to repeat it. People are stupid. > stupid, ignorant, or naive? One would hope that those making the decisions are none of the above. But given the evidence of their actions, I would have to accuse them of all of the above. > apparently *noone* has learned from history. not them, not us, > not you, not nato, not anyone if we're gonna sit here and spend our time > placing blame instead of fixing the problems. I'm not going to deny that - the British Empire screwed up in pretty similar ways, and previous superpowers, like Spain and Rome, had too. However, to fix a problem you first need to know what the cause of the problem is. I'm not really blaming individuals, other than individuals in power who really should have known better. > > I don't think many Americans realise quite > > how much they are hated by the huge numbers of people who are victims of > > your government's foreign policies. You crow about your much-vaunted > > democracy, and yet you fail to use your democracy to elect decent people, > > instead electing racist war-mongers. THAT is how much of the world sees > > you, and your failure to use that democracy, unfortunately, makes many > > see individual citizens as being the enemy. > > i'm of the opinion that you are absolutely correct in this. > > david, i'm sure statistics are available somewhere from your recent > elections up there. how much of the voting populace participated in the > latest p.m. race? Not enough. If only I could be bothered to do anything about apathy :-) Assuming you mean the latest parliamentary elections (there is no seperate election for the prime minister), then depending on how you massage the figures it was either the lowest turnout for 80-odd years or the lowest ever, at 59.2% of the adult population. The confusion arises because the immediately post-WW1 election had a *vastly* increased franchise, so a huge number of first-time voters who didn't know what to do, and plenty of soldiers were still abroad. It's probably not a particularly good comparison. FWIW, I don't think that *any* of the so-called democracies come even close to real democracy, with Switzerland possibly coming closest. The constitution of the Swiss Federation makes a *really* interesting read. See http://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/law/sz00000_.html for an English translation. > give the people time to think and > recover from all this and you might find a few changed minds, policies, > and agendas. Yes, I think so too. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david This is nice. Any idea what body-part it is? From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 15:07:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:07:39 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Hijacked In-Reply-To: <86lmjj7yjc.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: On 13 Sep 2001 koyote at koyote.cx wrote: > I tend to agree, though I do want to hear your particular take on it. ditto. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 15:08:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:08:14 +0000 Subject: [geeks] From the NY Post.. Message-ID: <20010913200815.XKZG6924.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> I'm simply amazed by your restraint. Actually, I agree. Especially after I saw a replay of a Sixty Minutes II piece where this character was talking about what would we do if a thousand people in the US got killed and that is what they are doing after we hammered some place in Afghanistan which only had civilians (I believe our intelligence placed it as the site of one of these cockroaches' headquarters). Yeah, right. Then he called us cowards because we throw missiles at them from thousands of miles away. During Desert Storm they put civilian bomb shelters on top of military bunkers so when they got hit, they could trot out the bodies and claim we hit innocents and celebrate in private that these martyrs are now with their God. WTC was not a military target unless it was one of the biggest above ground missile silos ever made. BTW, I think those towers should be rebuilt just to show these bone-heads that we will not knuckle under (although it will never happen). They are into "symbols". I think it would be a fitting symbol second only to a nuclear suppository. I used to be more moderate until I saw that SMII piece. Give me five minutes in a room with these characters (I'm 50, I need four minutes to rest up before I come out). > SIMPLY KILL THESE BASTARDS + From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 15:12:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:12:23 +0000 Subject: [geeks] on a lighter note Message-ID: <20010913201224.LPHV26461.mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> I almost lost my connection from inactivity since I fell outta my chair and was on the floor laughing for the longest time. I love it! > It has been suggested that perhaps the WTC should be rebuilt like > this. > > http://www.filepile.org:8080/f/pictures/rebuilding_the_wtc.jpg > > It seems appropriate to me anyway... > > -- > > Joshua Goins > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 15:24:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:24:07 -0500 Subject: [geeks] remove cover from C110 HP? In-Reply-To: <1000408989.3ba1079d227c0@webmail.dds.nl> References: <20010913170125.2333811E1B@ohno.mrbill.net> <1000408989.3ba1079d227c0@webmail.dds.nl> Message-ID: <20010913152406.W24473@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 09:23:09PM +0200, roosmcd at dds.nl wrote: > shake it till the mainboard falls out. I have a C110 and a partial C100 > (missing PS and memory, anybody interested in Europe?). I suspect there is a > somewhat more acceptable way to take this machine apart, but someone with a > B132L I talked to, also did it this way.... Actually I was just pulling on the wrong part.. Was expecting a cover to come off, not a backplane unit. > One thing to watch for: on both my machines the connector between the drive > sled and the backplane was flaky. And since the power button is on the drive > sled, you can have severe problems powering the machine up if you have just >taken it apart and the drive sled isn't properly seated. The person I got these > machines from couldn't get them to power on at all.... I had to reseat the drive unit 2 or 3 times and re-seat all the scsi cables before I could get it to power on and install. Working fine now, except the video card is a HCRX8. Anybody got a HCRX24? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 15:50:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:50:49 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] God bless America In-Reply-To: <86heu77y0q.fsf@koyote.cx>; from koyote@koyote.cx on Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 11:20:53AM -0700 References: <20010912222809.21E1011CE6@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010913105700.A22198@plough.barnyard.co.uk> <86heu77y0q.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <20010913215049.C1780@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 11:20:53AM -0700, koyote at koyote.cx wrote: > >I guess that includes me then. I don't think many Americans realise quite > >how much they are hated by the huge numbers of people who are victims of > >your government's foreign policies. > > so.... lemme get this straight. you say that this attack is *excusable* or that the peoiple who died *deserved* it? No, I never said that. > >Y'know, I find the vile reaction of a great many American citizens who I > >had thought were decent, intelligent people to be far more disturbing than > >the attack itself. > > I fail to see anything vile about wanting all of the terrorists dead. You should want to see JUSTICE, not retribution. Killing them would be retribution. > I not that I'm not in favor of carpet bombing any particular nation. I'm glad to hear it. Perhaps you would like to join me in condemning those who are. > I'm also not in favor of machine gunning innocent Indians, but that would be a different kind of foreign policy, perhaps. I believe that both our nations have slaughtered defenceless Indians (for different values of Indian). > > That 'only' killed a few thousand people, but there > >are literally *hundreds* of thousands of innocent casualties of US foreign > >policy > > out of those hundreds of thusands, how many were in armed conflict, how > many were directly killed innocents (I mean US citizen pulls trigger) > and how many were the victims of another government misusing aid? The point is not whether they are 'directly' killed or not - to me, it certainly doesn't matter whether someone dies because of a badly aimed 'smart' bomb or because they happen to work in the wrong place, or any other reason. Try putting yourself in the victim's shoes. Would you prefer me to deliberately shoot your loved one, to accidentally kill them with a bomb, or to deny them access to food and medication? > We don't always make great choices about who we help, but overall, we > *try*. Blaming the passengers of, say, flight 77, seems a bit far fetched. Indeed it would seem farfetched. Good thing I didn't do that then. > Personally, anyone who thinks that any of this justifies what happened > tuesday is sick. At no point have I said that I think it justifies it. I have said that I think it helps explain why it happened. I'll reiterate, NOTHING justifies the killing of innocent civilians. Doesn't matter what nationality they are, nor where they are, nor who their govt is, nor what that govt does. ANYONE who does that is a criminal. ANYONE who advocates it disgusts me. This makes an interesting read: http://www.nettime.org/nettime.w3archive/200109/msg00130.html and it doesn't even touch on the secular motivations of potential attackers. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Do not be afraid of cooking, as your ingredients will know and misbehave -- Fergus Henderson From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 15:58:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:58:59 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Bomb Threats, In-Reply-To: <002901c13c98$797682f0$0501000a@laboffice> References: <002901c13c98$797682f0$0501000a@laboffice> Message-ID: <20010913165859.A7751@cs.millersville.edu> On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 05:10:09PM -0400, Zach Malone wrote: > I just attended my Calc 1 class. It was canceled on Tuesday due to > events which have been previously discussed, and today, someone called in a > bomb threat to the college. This means that out of my normal 9 classes a > week (for all my courses), I will attend a little under half of them. Why > do people choose to call in bomb threats to colleges? Is it so that they > can pay money to the college/university and not get anything back for it? > Stuff like this is very annoying, not to mention the fact that it is really > not in very good taste. I believe that the people who call in bomb threats to colleges are not the ones who give money to the schools. Most likely it is their parents who give the money. Either that or grants and loan officers. I've met very few people who are actually paying for school themselves, in cash. Well check. But one of these days, I'm going to walk into the bursars office and pay for the next semesters tuition in a stack of $20s. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 16:10:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:10:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Bomb Threats, Message-ID: <002901c13c98$797682f0$0501000a@laboffice> I hate some people, I just attended my Calc 1 class. It was canceled on Tuesday due to events which have been previously discussed, and today, someone called in a bomb threat to the college. This means that out of my normal 9 classes a week (for all my courses), I will attend a little under half of them. Why do people choose to call in bomb threats to colleges? Is it so that they can pay money to the college/university and not get anything back for it? Stuff like this is very annoying, not to mention the fact that it is really not in very good taste. Zach From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 16:15:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:15:13 +0000 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] God bless America Message-ID: <20010913211513.ORNL1680.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> > > note: i apologize for my at-times rhetoric below, but its something i > honestly feel and believe. don't laugh at my idiocy before you think about > it first. > It's not idiocy. I read it several times. > i had no idea things had begun to get this bad on the other lists. i > suppose i was remiss/naive in believing bill when he said things were > 'under control' It's more polite here than other lists. > stupid, ignorant, or naive? the average american has little knowledge of > world history (let alone the history of western civilization). the > majority of us weren't taught it, never read it, or simply have forgotten > much of it due to feeling far too safe/secure for far too long. if any > history is taught its usually a miss-mosh of condensed american history for > one semester. thats about 16 weeks to absorb 500 years--and you can bet it > didnt cover the political aspects of europe or foreign policy of > spain in 1492. > We do have World His-story in school too but it is the same mish-mosh. Although I could never understand why nothing "important" happened east of Poland. > i spent 5 years studying western civilization prior to the middle ages. > the one thing that was as apparent to me at 14 as it is now is that much > of the middle east and europe has been at war due to X god since before > christ. so apparently *noone* has learned from history. not them, not us, > not you, not nato, not anyone if we're gonna sit here and spend our time > placing blame instead of fixing the problems. united we stand and united > we will all fall as long as religious ideals are in the mix somewhere. > there is no good that comes from arguing and fighting people who are willing > to die for their own martyrhood. > > > But you really should consider that terrorism has proved to be rather > > effective in the past. > > effective, yes. its already achieved some very good (and very horrific) > results here in the states. ones i hope wont be forgotten next week when all > of our mortgages are due. Less likely than at other times. > > I guess that includes me then. I don't think many Americans realise quite > > how much they are hated by the huge numbers of people who are victims of > > your government's foreign policies. You crow about your much-vaunted > > democracy, and yet you fail to use your democracy to elect decent people, > > instead electing racist war-mongers. THAT is how much of the world sees > > you, and your failure to use that democracy, unfortunately, makes many > > see individual citizens as being the enemy. > > i'm of the opinion that you are absolutely correct in this. > > david, i'm sure statistics are available somewhere from your recent > elections up there. how much of the voting populace participated in the > latest p.m. race? > I think what happened is that this govenemnt went from a bottom-up govenemnt to a top-down govenment. > > Y'know, I find the vile reaction of a great many American citizens who I > > had thought were decent, intelligent people to be far more disturbing than > > the attack itself. > > understand i am making no excuses here for anyone but i believe at least > some explanations are overdue. many of us talking dont remember a time of > war or what it is/was like, we were too busy to pay attention, or simply > didnt worry since we were hell and gone from the action. that > ignorance and naivety is hurting us now. give the people time to think and > recover from all this and you might find a few changed minds, policies, > and agendas. I've said this on other lists. But this would be the reaction from anybody, anywhere. > as for my own opinion, i feel very strongly that i've heard and seen > enough of blood being shed to last another few lifetimes. many people want > revenge; all i want is justice. justice doesnt mean turning a country into > a sheet of glass in order to find one man or punish a country for > harboring a known and wanted terrorist. if it were, that country might > well be our own for all 'we the people' know--the hijackers involved were > living in florida for god's sake. WE HARBORED THESE PEOPLE. > We didn't harbor these people. They came and lived here. We did not hide them from anyone. > justice may mean extradition and a trial. justice may mean whoever is > responsible going door to door for the rest of his life and apologizing for > his directives. justice might be his ostracization from all societies (a > truly historical way of dealing with infidels, look it up) because noone > knows why all this was done because we've been force fed the ideal of not > seeing the big picture for so long. we assumed people we elected were > doing their jobs and we were comfortable being led along like sheep to a > slaughterhouse as long as our bills were paid, our kids were healty and > our employment secure. > Agreed. And the people that run our government want to keep it that way. > > That 'only' killed a few thousand people, but there > > are literally *hundreds* of thousands of innocent casualties of US foreign > > policy. And now, there seems to be a clamour to make even more of them. > > There's plenty of you (both on this list and more generally) who should be > > ashamed of yourselves. I imagine that most will be when they get over the > > immediate emotional impact. > > am i ashamed of myself? when given my only choice between two evils and i > chose the least evil? no. > Same here. > am i ashamed of my countrymen who are calling for the slaughter of millions > and have for years? yes. > Same here. > am i ashamed of my country three days ago that tended to jump the gun in > order to look like mr. bad-ass? absolutely, yes. > NO, I'm not. I think it is a reaction that is normal. > am i ashamed of my country *today*, where my president is taking his time > to identify fully and completely those responsible before any further action is > taken and seems to be listening to the sane minority of people and majority > of world leaders when they say war and further bloodshed is not necessary > for justice? hell no, and neither should you or anyone else. > > for one of the first times, people here are waking up to a different > world. let it sink in, let them think. then, instead of throwing blame, > support us in our ignorance and show us gently what its like to be > civilized. only then can we all stand united and live at peace. Nicely put. I've noticed one thing on every list I'm on, the only people who seem to be blasting the reaction of those of us in the US seem to come .uk sites. Could it be that others from around the world can understand the reactions to this event and are just letting us vent without comment since they know this is a typical reaction? I don't intend to start flames here but it was an observation. From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 16:22:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:22:54 +0000 Subject: [geeks] remove cover from C110 HP? Message-ID: <20010913212254.NCBR26461.mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> I thought he was joking......ahhhhhh!...AAHHHHH!..I'll talk, I'll talk. (Running and ducking) > On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 11:32:58AM -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 11:12:52AM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > > > ANybody know how to open up a HP C110? > > Thumbscrews. > > Unscrewed the thumbscrews. pulled on the handle. wont budge. > > Got the floppy tray out tho. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 16:34:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:34:49 -0500 Subject: [geeks] sad, really Message-ID: <20010913163449.Y24473@mrbill.net> Its sad that it takes something like this to make people patriotic. On a side note, EVERYWHERE in austin is completely sold out of American flags. I just called target (2 locations), 3 wal-marts, Hobby Lobby, Office Depot, etc.... Even the grocery stores. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 21:46:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:46:01 -0500 Subject: [geeks] testing 5 Message-ID: <20010913214601.M24473@mrbill.net> testing 5 -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 21:53:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:53:14 -0500 Subject: [geeks] LIST ADMIN NOTE Message-ID: <20010913215313.O24473@mrbill.net> We had a list problem and any mails sent to the list(s) between 5pm and 10pm CST were probably lost; please re-send. (I had to whack a queue directory to get mailman working again). Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 21:59:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:59:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] FS/FT: LJ II Postscript printer cartridge Message-ID: <014201c13cc9$53e08280$0301a8c0@kensportege> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_013F_01C13CA7.CC2709C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bought off eBay for my LJ IIP printer, but it does not seem to work - = anyone interested in it? Looking to get out of it what I put into it, $11 Shipped USPS Mail. Please contact me off-list, at n2vip at bellatlantic.net Thanks, Ken ------=_NextPart_000_013F_01C13CA7.CC2709C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bought off eBay for my LJ IIP printer, = but it does=20 not seem to work - anyone interested in it?
 
Looking to get out of it what I put = into it, $11=20 Shipped USPS Mail.
 
Please contact me off-list, at n2vip at bellatlantic.net<= /DIV>
 
Thanks,
 
Ken
------=_NextPart_000_013F_01C13CA7.CC2709C0-- From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 23:06:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 04:06:52 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Cisco STS-10x Terminal Server Programming Message-ID: [resend: not seen] Hi all, I've got in my hands an old Cisco (back when they were cicso, har har) STS-10x Terminal Server. I've done the password recovery routine but neglected to record the configuration register beforehand. My problem is that I cannot set the terminal server and then remove power and have it keep it's settings. Do these little guys always boot from the network, or can I make it hold the settings itself? (I'd prefer not to boot from the network if at all possible. Security concerns and the possibility of the BOOTP host going down.) ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 23:43:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (William S.) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] remove cover from C110 HP? In-Reply-To: <20010913152406.W24473@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010914044327.29106.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Bill, Just curious, what do you plan to do with the C110 HP? Will it be a home machine? Somewhere, I think I read that the cpu could be upgraded. Have you done that? Bill Amsterdam, NL --- Bill Bradford wrote: . . . . > Actually I was just pulling on the wrong part.. Was > expecting a cover to > come off, not a backplane unit. > . . . . __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 23:44:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 00:44:53 -0400 Subject: [geeks] remove cover from C110 HP? In-Reply-To: <20010914044327.29106.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010914044327.29106.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0109140045330G.00715@two-time.twmaster.com> The C110 is CPU upgradeable by replacing the CPU board asembely Mike N On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, you wrote: > Bill, > > Just curious, what do you plan to do with the C110 HP? > Will it be a home machine? Somewhere, I think I read > that the cpu could be upgraded. Have you done that? > > Bill > Amsterdam, NL > > --- Bill Bradford wrote: > . . . . > >> Actually I was just pulling on the wrong part.. Was > > expecting a cover to > > come off, not a backplane unit. > > > . . . . > > > __________________________________________________ > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > Donate cash, emergency relief information > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 13 23:56:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 23:56:13 -0500 Subject: [geeks] remove cover from C110 HP? In-Reply-To: <20010914044327.29106.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010913152406.W24473@mrbill.net> <20010914044327.29106.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010913235613.W24473@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 09:43:27PM -0700, William S. wrote: > Bill, > Just curious, what do you plan to do with the C110 HP? > Will it be a home machine? Nope - right now its an "experimental" box at work. I own it, but it sits on my desk connected to the office network. Will probably use it to test patches before I apply them to the work machines, and to run monitoring software. > Somewhere, I think I read > that the cpu could be upgraded. Have you done that? Never heard of it, never tried it... dunno where I'd get the cpu board.. but its fast enough for me as is.. This is the first 110 I've used - but had plenty of C220s and B160s. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 06:56:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ross Alexander) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:56:11 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Re: kernel scalability.... In-Reply-To: <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 08:14:12PM -0500 References: <20010909175903.E7F4610C@proven.weird.com> <20010910004634.3BB4EE8@proven.weird.com> <20010909201412.Y26352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010914075611.B19076@cc175284-a.union1.nj.home.com> > Speaking of which, "informal survey" > > "What do you do for a living, and whats your "history" ?" Currently manager of technical resources for a NY hopital. Before that in reverse chronological order: Network architect -- 5 years Manager, help desk & end user computing -- 3 years Novell system admin -- 2 years IBM s/370 systems programmer / db admin -- 5 years COBOL applications programmer -- 2 years -- Ross Alexander rossalexander at home.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 07:54:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] vi/emacs t-shirts on sale at ThinkGeek.com Message-ID: <20010914125413.2285.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> Here is your chance to express your preference! ThinkGeek has the vi/emacs t-shirts on sale, $10/ea, normally $15/ea. I won't suggest which shirt everyone should buy, but I am clear on what I will get... See: http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/clearance/ Ken ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 09:46:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:46:43 -0500 Subject: [geeks] CrystalReports Message-ID: <20010914094643.A24473@mrbill.net> Anybody know where I can find a user manual for CrystalReports 7 in PDF format? I've got the software here at work, fully legal, but the manual has been long lost... and they wont buy a newer version 8-( Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 10:02:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:02:16 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Cisco STS-10x Terminal Server Programming Message-ID: I am not familiar with the STS-10x, but based on every other peice of Cisco I have touched in 10 years, you are looking at a config register issue. Anything with a CF issue will behave this way. If you find yourself stuck I can get tech support to tell me the one or two places that CF should be. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kris Kirby [mailto:kris at catonic.net] > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:07 AM > To: Geeks > Cc: rescue at sunhelp.org > Subject: [geeks] Cisco STS-10x Terminal Server Programming > > > > [resend: not seen] > > Hi all, > > I've got in my hands an old Cisco (back when they were cicso, har har) > STS-10x Terminal Server. I've done the password recovery routine but > neglected to record the configuration register beforehand. My > problem is > that I cannot set the terminal server and then remove power > and have it > keep it's settings. Do these little guys always boot from the > network, or > can I make it hold the settings itself? (I'd prefer not to > boot from the > network if at all possible. Security concerns and the > possibility of the > BOOTP host going down.) > > ----- > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > | > ------------------------------------------------------- > "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 10:19:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 14 Sep 2001 08:19:03 -0700 Subject: [geeks] terror> In-Reply-To: <20010913215049.C1780@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <86n13x6brs.fsf_-_@koyote.cx> I'm sruggling with this. Let's see if I can express it at all clearly: I don't want more innocent deaths. I *do* want the terrorists dead. all of them. Why? 1. they will not stop while they are alive. I think we've had this proven quite dramatically. If not, then perhaps the next suicide airliner should hit the Tower of London. Or islamabad. This may be a good time to bring up Juan Rico's views. If these people really understood *what* they were doing, suicide would be their only option. If they are insane enough to feel happy about this, then- well, you shoot a mad dog, don't you? Imprisoning them isn't enough. they may escape. they may fuel the fires. And it's a waste. They aren't going to get "rehabilitated". 2. I want them dead. I'm very righteuously pissed. By my moral code, this type of action requires death. (don't bore me with misconstrued idiocies. I don't want to hear how the misuse of humanitarian and security minded funding by the governments of other people is *my* fault for helping to provide the aid. I don't want to hear about CIA ops in the 70's. If you want to dredge up past history, I can show you atrocities the likes of which America simply doesn' thave the age or stomach to match. Our support to Isreal is overmatched by far by our support in times of need to saudi arabia, kuwait, afghanistan, etc. [further, no bullshit about oil wars. we DID stop iraq, regardles of the political reasons.]) now, this all having been said: I don't want innocents to die. I know that any serious attempt to stamp out terrorism will include this, and I don't like it. But, like stopping hitler, this needs to be done. I dont' want smart bombs or carpet bombs, I don't want nukes. I want dead terrorists. And no, I don't think it's easy. This isn't something where we can taag all the terrorists in a week and hunt them down cleanly. But as difficult as it may be to stamp the fsckers out, it needs to be done. And- no, I don't think this is unreasonable. I'm talking about a subset of humanity (if you can apply that word to them) that has something worse than an asocial disregard for life. I'm talking about people who are far, far worse. People who glory in making non-combatants, innocents, bystanders, into tortured, maimed, dead persons. The only thing unreasonable is letting them continue. I don't *care* if you think we "caused" this in some way. There is not a citizen of this country who forced whoever did this to do so. I am not responsible for the willfull actions fo a sentient being other than myself. I do not accept that anything- anything! the US has done with aid to the world is justification for an act like this. You can try to tell me that i should feel guilty because terrorists want to kill me. It won't work. I am not a 6 year old kicking your kneecaps because you won't let me have ice cream. and I won't accept that as an excuse for the actions of armed persons killing my fellow humans. (and no, don't try and say that's what we are doing in retaliating. We *know* what we are doing, and no one is forcing us. motivating. perhaps, but never forcing) -C From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 10:40:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] CrystalReports In-Reply-To: <20010914094643.A24473@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010914154003.24304.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> Why not look for a book on Crystal Reports at a book store? There are lots of them (books on Crystal Reports, not book stores!). Ken --- Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know where I can find a user manual for > CrystalReports > 7 in PDF format? I've got the software here at > work, fully > legal, but the manual has been long lost... and they > wont buy a > newer version 8-( ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 10:47:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:47:13 -0500 Subject: [geeks] CrystalReports In-Reply-To: <20010914154003.24304.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010914094643.A24473@mrbill.net> <20010914154003.24304.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010914104713.J24473@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 14, 2001 at 08:40:03AM -0700, Ken Hansen wrote: > Why not look for a book on Crystal Reports at a book > store? There are lots of them (books on Crystal > Reports, not book stores!). If I cant find anything for free, I'll pick up "Crystal Reports 7 For Dummies".. This is for work, and I dont want to have to lay down my own money. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 11:15:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:15:07 -0500 Subject: [geeks] CrystalReports In-Reply-To: <007801c13d39$4429b9e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> References: <20010914094643.A24473@mrbill.net> <20010914154003.24304.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> <20010914104713.J24473@mrbill.net> <007801c13d39$4429b9e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010914111507.L24473@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 14, 2001 at 12:21:09PM -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > There are real books on Crystal Reports, and for R7 (old release) they may > even be discounted. You will probably exhaust all the info in a "Dummies" > book inside of your first day... Yes, but its better than no manual *at all*. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 11:21:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:21:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] CrystalReports References: <20010914094643.A24473@mrbill.net> <20010914154003.24304.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> <20010914104713.J24473@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <007801c13d39$4429b9e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> There are real books on Crystal Reports, and for R7 (old release) they may even be discounted. You will probably exhaust all the info in a "Dummies" book inside of your first day... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] CrystalReports > On Fri, Sep 14, 2001 at 08:40:03AM -0700, Ken Hansen wrote: > > Why not look for a book on Crystal Reports at a book > > store? There are lots of them (books on Crystal > > Reports, not book stores!). > > If I cant find anything for free, I'll pick up "Crystal Reports 7 > For Dummies".. > > This is for work, and I dont want to have to lay down my own money. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 12:23:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zimmerman, Jim) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:23:05 -0600 Subject: [geeks] terror> Message-ID: <9F2ABADBBA07D311BA2D0008C70718BB0579AF38@DENNTEX003.qwest.net> VERY well said... ---- Jim Zimmerman K0JLZ RHCE Staff IT Systems Engineer Hosting Engineering 303-226-9937 jim.zimmerman at qwest.com -----Original Message----- From: koyote at koyote.cx [mailto:koyote at koyote.cx] Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 9:19 AM To: geeks at sunhelp.org Subject: [geeks] terror> I'm sruggling with this. Let's see if I can express it at all clearly: I don't want more innocent deaths. I *do* want the terrorists dead. all of them. Why? 1. they will not stop while they are alive. I think we've had this proven quite dramatically. If not, then perhaps the next suicide airliner should hit the Tower of London. Or islamabad. This may be a good time to bring up Juan Rico's views. If these people really understood *what* they were doing, suicide would be their only option. If they are insane enough to feel happy about this, then- well, you shoot a mad dog, don't you? Imprisoning them isn't enough. they may escape. they may fuel the fires. And it's a waste. They aren't going to get "rehabilitated". 2. I want them dead. I'm very righteuously pissed. By my moral code, this type of action requires death. (don't bore me with misconstrued idiocies. I don't want to hear how the misuse of humanitarian and security minded funding by the governments of other people is *my* fault for helping to provide the aid. I don't want to hear about CIA ops in the 70's. If you want to dredge up past history, I can show you atrocities the likes of which America simply doesn' thave the age or stomach to match. Our support to Isreal is overmatched by far by our support in times of need to saudi arabia, kuwait, afghanistan, etc. [further, no bullshit about oil wars. we DID stop iraq, regardles of the political reasons.]) now, this all having been said: I don't want innocents to die. I know that any serious attempt to stamp out terrorism will include this, and I don't like it. But, like stopping hitler, this needs to be done. I dont' want smart bombs or carpet bombs, I don't want nukes. I want dead terrorists. And no, I don't think it's easy. This isn't something where we can taag all the terrorists in a week and hunt them down cleanly. But as difficult as it may be to stamp the fsckers out, it needs to be done. And- no, I don't think this is unreasonable. I'm talking about a subset of humanity (if you can apply that word to them) that has something worse than an asocial disregard for life. I'm talking about people who are far, far worse. People who glory in making non-combatants, innocents, bystanders, into tortured, maimed, dead persons. The only thing unreasonable is letting them continue. I don't *care* if you think we "caused" this in some way. There is not a citizen of this country who forced whoever did this to do so. I am not responsible for the willfull actions fo a sentient being other than myself. I do not accept that anything- anything! the US has done with aid to the world is justification for an act like this. You can try to tell me that i should feel guilty because terrorists want to kill me. It won't work. I am not a 6 year old kicking your kneecaps because you won't let me have ice cream. and I won't accept that as an excuse for the actions of armed persons killing my fellow humans. (and no, don't try and say that's what we are doing in retaliating. We *know* what we are doing, and no one is forcing us. motivating. perhaps, but never forcing) -C _______________________________________________ GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 16:36:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:36:34 +0100 Subject: [geeks] RE: Re: [rescue] God bless America In-Reply-To: <20010914185312.160A212028@ohno.mrbill.net>; from rescue-request@sunhelp.org on Fri, Sep 14, 2001 at 01:53:12PM -0500 References: <20010914185312.160A212028@ohno.mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010914223633.N3812@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Taken to geeks - hey, I know it didn't work last time, but at least I'm trying :-) wa2egp at att.net wrote: > OK, we drop the tariffs and many of our farms will go out of business. Who needs farms. Who needs the food? Standard capitalist ideology is that if the food is needed businesses will exist to fulfil the demand. So which is it to be, farms going bankrupt, or capitalism? > Sometimes we need to be watched. Feedback is very important in any system. > In spite of mistakes, I think the US has done pretty good for a relatively young > country. But now we have someone who has attacked us directly, first in history (Hawaii > was not part of the US at the time of Pearl Harbor). Your laws applied there; your currency was valid there ... If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it damned well is a duck. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Considering the number of wheels Microsoft has found reason to invent, one never ceases to be baffled by the minuscule number whose shape even vaguely resembles a circle. -- anon, on Usenet From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 17:39:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:39:30 -0400 Subject: [geeks] display servers References: <000a01c13bdb$a09a54f0$49de11ac@sungardbrass.com> Message-ID: <004901c13d6e$1f2b1aa0$0301a8c0@kensportege> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C13D4C.97486F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Context? Sounds like a fancy name for X Windows terminals/thin clients, but = without a context it is hard to be sure... Ken ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Amer Chaudhry=20 To: geeks at sunhelp.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 6:38 PM Subject: [geeks] display servers What is a display server and what does it do? ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C13D4C.97486F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Context?
 
Sounds like a fancy name for X Windows=20 terminals/thin clients, but without a context it is hard to be=20 sure...
 
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Amer Chaudhry
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, = 2001 6:38=20 PM
Subject: [geeks] display = servers

What is a display server and what = does it=20 do?
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C13D4C.97486F00-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 19:11:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 14 Sep 2001 17:11:03 -0700 Subject: [geeks] RE: Re: [rescue] God bless America In-Reply-To: <20010914223633.N3812@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> References: <20010914185312.160A212028@ohno.mrbill.net> <20010914223633.N3812@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <1000512663.8104.2.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Fri, 2001-09-14 at 14:36, David Cantrell wrote: > wa2egp at att.net wrote: > > Sometimes we need to be watched. Feedback is very important in any system. > > In spite of mistakes, I think the US has done pretty good for a relatively young > > country. But now we have someone who has attacked us directly, first in history (Hawaii > > was not part of the US at the time of Pearl Harbor). > > Your laws applied there; your currency was valid there ... > > If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it damned well is a duck. I think the point was that Hawaii was a territory of the US, and not a full-fledged state. I don't make a distinction in terms of attacks on the US, but I suppose one could. Territories are territories for the purpose of recieving aid, often in the form of military protection, from the country that they're a territory of, aren't they? Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 19:18:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:18:27 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Am I nuts? Message-ID: I've got a 1+ here with sunos 4.11 and I'm thinking about putting an NPI sas fddi card on it... daniel From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 20:26:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:26:48 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Am I nuts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010914212648.A7277@cs.millersville.edu> On Fri, Sep 14, 2001 at 08:18:27PM -0400, Big Endian wrote: > I've got a 1+ here with sunos 4.11 and I'm thinking about putting an > NPI sas fddi card on it... Sounds resonably sane to me. Don't know if it will work though. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 22:14:21 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 03:14:21 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Cisco STS-10x Terminal Server Programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Fogg, James wrote: > I am not familiar with the STS-10x, but based on every other peice of Cisco > I have touched in 10 years, you are looking at a config register issue. > Anything with a CF issue will behave this way. > > If you find yourself stuck I can get tech support to tell me the one or two > places that CF should be. Have tried setting the CF register to 0x2102 but it doesn't stick and doesn't change the default behavior. I'm also unable to locate another Cisco STS-10x in my area. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 14 22:26:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:26:36 -0400 Subject: [geeks] NeXT UFS Message-ID: I need to mount the disk from next boxen on a different machine and write to it. Any OS suggestions? daniel From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 00:44:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 05:44:59 +0000 Subject: [geeks] RE: Re: [rescue] God bless America Message-ID: <20010915054500.OTFP1680.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> > Standard capitalist ideology is that if the food is needed businesses will > exist to fulfil the demand. So which is it to be, farms going bankrupt, > or capitalism? > Capitalism. But sometimes conditions do exist where certain industries may need to be protected. But the US is not the only country that does this. Let's give a tougher choice. Capitalism or imperialism? > > Sometimes we need to be watched. Feedback is very important in any system. > > In spite of mistakes, I think the US has done pretty good for a relatively > young > > country. But now we have someone who has attacked us directly, first in > history (Hawaii > > was not part of the US at the time of Pearl Harbor). > Your laws applied there; your currency was valid there ... Maybe I should have spelled it out. Hawaii was not part of the United STATES at the at the time. Our currency is valid in Puerto Rico, our laws apply (at least most of them)there but you better not call them part of the United States. :-> > If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it damned well is a duck. And you could never accept it if it wasn't a duck. From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 01:54:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 14 Sep 2001 23:54:43 -0700 Subject: [geeks] RE: Re: [rescue] God bless America In-Reply-To: <20010915054500.OTFP1680.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> References: <20010915054500.OTFP1680.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <864rq5ueoc.fsf@koyote.cx> > But the US is not the only country that does this. Let's give a >tougher choice. Capitalism or imperialism? the two are mutually exclusive? When did this happen? -Christof From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 03:08:10 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 03:08:10 -0500 Subject: [geeks] FT: SGI Indigo2 for ham radio equipment Message-ID: <20010915030810.N880@mrbill.net> I've got one more I2 than I need, so I've got the following available: SGI Indigo2. Teal case, 200Mhz R4400SC (1M L2 cache), 128meg RAM, Extreme graphics, 2G HD (may be able to find a 4G). No CDROM, but I might be able to throw an old 1X in if you have an external case and cables for it. IRIX 6.5.10 media (on CD-R). SGI "Granite" PS/2 keyboard and mouse. Looking to trade for: 2 meter transceivers and/or packet radio equipment HF/shortwave receivers or transceivers (solid state only, please - no tubes) Scanners (Radio Shack Pro-2004/5/6, etc, or a newer trunking- capable unit) All offers considered. I've just re-evaluated some of my priorities and right now I have too much computer equipment and not enough ham radio equipment... so I'm reversing that balance to have more things that could be useful in times of crisis. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 03:33:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (bill pointon) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 04:33:59 -0400 Subject: [geeks] FT: SGI Indigo2 for ham radio equipment References: <20010915030810.N880@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3BA31276.969EDC54@earthlink.net> hi bill(b) - i dont have any ham gear to trade but what is your asking price , if you will sell it ? -------- thanks ------- bill(p) Bill Bradford wrote: > I've got one more I2 than I need, so I've got the following > available: > > SGI Indigo2. Teal case, 200Mhz R4400SC (1M L2 cache), 128meg > RAM, Extreme graphics, 2G HD (may be able to find a 4G). No > CDROM, but I might be able to throw an old 1X in if you have an > external case and cables for it. IRIX 6.5.10 media (on CD-R). > SGI "Granite" PS/2 keyboard and mouse. > > Looking to trade for: > > 2 meter transceivers and/or packet radio equipment > > HF/shortwave receivers or transceivers (solid state only, > please - no tubes) > > Scanners (Radio Shack Pro-2004/5/6, etc, or a newer trunking- > capable unit) > > All offers considered. I've just re-evaluated some of my priorities > and right now I have too much computer equipment and not enough ham > radio equipment... so I'm reversing that balance to have more things > that could be useful in times of crisis. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 17:22:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 18:22:26 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq References: <5.0.2.1.1.20010905212805.00b342f0@10.1.1.10><15254.22320.134648.471743@phaduka.neurotica.com><00bb01c13650$2fd61f50$3800a8c0@diversifiedllc.com><007d01c13683$2b5522e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> <15254.60196.181892.988527@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <002801c13e32$7d5f77a0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <000701c13e34$e6cb01d0$6701a8c0@laboffice> The PPro was the first of the P6 core processors. Other processors in this family include the Pentium II, Pentium III, the P2 and P3 Xeons, and the Celerons. One thing about the PPro that makes them popular is that they are extremely stable, and you can assemble a machine with a lot of them for a lot less then a Xeon machine with more then 2 processors. Finally, as I understand it (correct me if I am wrong), the PPro was the first x86 processor that has a RISC core, with a CISC interpreter, giving it better performance then similar era Pentium MMX chips. Zach (Moved to geeks) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt Huhn" To: Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq > > Ken Hansen writes: > > > > > > But the real find was a PPro 200 system > > > > Okay, this time I'll bite. What's so great about the PPro that makes > > it better than other Intel chips? Are they still worth getting nowadays? > > > > Well, performance-wise, they're not as great as some of the chips out these > days. However, the PPro is still an excellent and *very* viable chip for > all sorts of CPU intensive stuff. You won't get *incredible* performance, > but you will get *solid* and *consistent* performance. > > They run relatively cool (as far as intel processors go), don't require > strange cooling fans (a heatsink and some measure of airflow through the > case is usually fine), they usually have a good amount of on-chip cache > memory, the cache runs at core speed, a 180mhz is essentially a 200Mhz (good > if you bought a 180 :), not as sensitive to heat as other processors, are > low-profile (makes custom cases easy), will run all day without a single > hiccup. > > Yes, other Intel chips will do the same, but the PPro is the yardstick of > quality that other chips are measured by. The PPRo was the first "quality" > chip that intel produced - that made it possible for Intel x86 to compete in > the server and graphic/engineering workstations arenas. The PPro can go > into MP systems too - I'm not positive, but I think PPros can be configured > in up to 8-way with the right motherboard. > > All in all, the PPro is a very flexible and configurable chip. > > That, and these chips are now very inexpensive. I recently bought a pair at > $29 per, and now the price is nearly half that at some places (on sale). I > recall when these chips first came out - they cost in the neighborhood of > $2000 if you had friends at the store... > > Kurt > > _______________________________________________ > rescue maillist - rescue at sunhelp.org > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 18:20:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 19:20:36 -0400 Subject: [geeks] RE: Re: [rescue] God bless America In-Reply-To: <20010916002413.A6266@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> References: <20010915054500.OTFP1680.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> <20010916002413.A6266@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010915192036.C22853@cs.millersville.edu> On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 12:24:14AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: > On Sat, Sep 15, 2001 at 05:44:59AM +0000, wa2egp at att.net wrote: > > > > > Hawaii was not part of the US at the time of Pearl Harbor. > > > > > Your laws applied there; your currency was valid there ... > > Maybe I should have spelled it out. Hawaii was not part of the United STATES at the > > at the time. Our currency is valid in Puerto Rico, our laws apply (at least most of them)there but you > > better not call them part of the United States. :-> > > As far as everyone else in the entire world is concerned Hawaii was part > of the US and Puerto Rico is. Puerto Rico doesn't have any embassies > abroad, it is represented by US embassies. *That* is what matters, not > some trivial minutiae of domestic law. Puerto Rico is (and at WWII Hawaii was) a territory of the .us. Territories don't get to vote for federal officials nor are they represented in congress. But they also don't get taxed. In all other ways they are part of the .us. If they wanted to, I expect that they could easily become a state, but puerto rico keeps voting not to become one because they don't really want to be part of the .us. > Same applies to the Isle of Man, BTW. As far as the UK is concerned, it > isn't part of the UK. As far as the rest of the world is concerned, it > is. And sensible .UKians realise that it really is part of our country > and that the obscure laws governing its relationship with us are pretty > irrelevant. Who rules the Isle of Man? GB? UK and GB aren't the same thing are they? -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 18:24:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 00:24:14 +0100 Subject: [geeks] RE: Re: [rescue] God bless America In-Reply-To: <20010915054500.OTFP1680.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net>; from wa2egp@att.net on Sat, Sep 15, 2001 at 05:44:59AM +0000 References: <20010915054500.OTFP1680.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20010916002413.A6266@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Sat, Sep 15, 2001 at 05:44:59AM +0000, wa2egp at att.net wrote: > > > Hawaii was not part of the US at the time of Pearl Harbor. > > > Your laws applied there; your currency was valid there ... > Maybe I should have spelled it out. Hawaii was not part of the United STATES at the > at the time. Our currency is valid in Puerto Rico, our laws apply (at least most of them)there but you > better not call them part of the United States. :-> As far as everyone else in the entire world is concerned Hawaii was part of the US and Puerto Rico is. Puerto Rico doesn't have any embassies abroad, it is represented by US embassies. *That* is what matters, not some trivial minutiae of domestic law. Same applies to the Isle of Man, BTW. As far as the UK is concerned, it isn't part of the UK. As far as the rest of the world is concerned, it is. And sensible .UKians realise that it really is part of our country and that the obscure laws governing its relationship with us are pretty irrelevant. > > If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it damned well is a duck. > And you could never accept it if it wasn't a duck. Huh? -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H. L. Mencken From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 19:30:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 20:30:22 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Overdrive Chips References: Message-ID: <002701c13e46$c5f3da10$6701a8c0@laboffice> > Check out pcsurplusonline.com for the 333 version of the PPro, called > Overdrive. They are new, in box, and have a fan included. Just $49.99. I > purchased 2, installed them in my Pr440 motherboard (dual PPro) and it just > sings! The Overdrive is a PII with a full speed cache on a Socket 8 (PPro) > chip. Will the Overdrive chips work in 4 and 6 way setups? Or is it like the P2 in that only 2 way SMP is supported? Zach From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 19:45:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 00:45:06 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Woah (WTC) Message-ID: I have had a little quote running halfway through my head and searched it out recently. Go find Def Leppard's "Gods Of War" -- in the last few seconds of the track, you hear a (Ronald) Reagan quote: "He counted on America to be passive. He counted wrong." This is scary especially in the context of the name of the song. Ever scarier that history is repeating within 20 years. (Well, terrorists are all alike.) ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 19:59:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 20:59:14 EDT Subject: [geeks] Re: Woah (WTC) References: Message-ID: <01366205914.dave.14546@cca.org> kris at catonic.net writes: >I have had a little quote running halfway through my head and searched it >out recently. Go find Def Leppard's "Gods Of War" -- in the last few >seconds of the track, you hear a (Ronald) Reagan quote: Even if I knew for a fact that it would prevent the senseless death of innocent American civilians, I would not listen to Def Leppard. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- --------- "I prefer the ridiculous to the sublime." - James Chance --------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 20:14:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 21:14:46 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Overdrive Chips In-Reply-To: <002701c13e46$c5f3da10$6701a8c0@laboffice> References: <002701c13e46$c5f3da10$6701a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: <01091521161000.03074@two-time.twmaster.com> > > Will the Overdrive chips work in 4 and 6 way setups? Or is it like the P2 > in that only 2 way SMP is supported? Depends on the machine. It says in the documentation that the PII Overdrive for PPro is only supposed to do 2 way SMP. I have an ALR Quad6 that seems to like 4 of them. Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 21:09:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 15 Sep 2001 19:09:06 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Overdrive Chips In-Reply-To: <002701c13e46$c5f3da10$6701a8c0@laboffice> References: <002701c13e46$c5f3da10$6701a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: <1000606146.2208.6.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> I mean to reply to the beginning of this thread, but I seem to have misplaced it. On Sat, 2001-09-15 at 17:30, Zach Malone wrote: > > Check out pcsurplusonline.com for the 333 version of the PPro, called > > Overdrive. They are new, in box, and have a fan included. Just $49.99. I > > purchased 2, installed them in my Pr440 motherboard (dual PPro) and it > just > > sings! The Overdrive is a PII with a full speed cache on a Socket 8 (PPro) > > chip. > > Will the Overdrive chips work in 4 and 6 way setups? Or is it like the P2 > in that only 2 way SMP is supported? There was never an Intel chipset that supported more than 4 processor PPro configurations (well, not one that you could buy and build a commertial motherboard with, anyway). There were actually boxes that used quite a few more than 8 PPro CPUs, for "strange" systems. I believe that Sequent had boxes that would take at least 24 PPro chips. As for the overdrives, Intel only "supports" them in dual processor configs. I think Mike has had luck with more than that. As for why the PPro is so well liked, it's -not- because it's the first reasonable processor that Intel produced (clearly the 80386 holds that). The PPro does 32-bit math a lot better than any previous intel chip, at the expense of it's 16-bit operations. When they were new, not all that many things were using 32-bit mode, but now that advantage really pays off. Later, Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 21:20:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 22:20:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: Woah (WTC) References: <01366205914.dave.14546@cca.org> Message-ID: <000d01c13e56$37496130$6701a8c0@laboffice> > Even if I knew for a fact that it would prevent the senseless death > of innocent American civilians, I would not listen to Def Leppard. This is one of those "soda on the keyboard" moments for me. Zach From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 21:38:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 02:38:41 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Re: Woah (WTC) In-Reply-To: <01366205914.dave.14546@cca.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Sep 2001 dave at cca.org wrote: > Even if I knew for a fact that it would prevent the senseless death > of innocent American civilians, I would not listen to Def Leppard. Well, it's only the last four seconds of the track, and there is no musical accompaniment. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 21:46:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 19:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Overdrive Chips In-Reply-To: <01091521161000.03074@two-time.twmaster.com> Message-ID: <20010916024642.82964.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> I think what you are seein mike is a system with a hybrid arrqngement - 2x dual CPU subsystems (it is wired as two seperate dual CPU arrangements, with "custom" glue to provide a nice 4-way arrangement). I think the Overdrive has the same limitation that the PPro does, and your MB handles up to 6 (nice...) Ken --- Mike Nicewonger wrote: > Depends on the machine. It says in the documentation > that the PII Overdrive for > PPro is only supposed to do 2 way SMP. > > I have an ALR Quad6 that seems to like 4 of them. > > Mike N > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 22:42:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 22:42:42 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Overdrive Chips In-Reply-To: <01091521161000.03074@two-time.twmaster.com> References: <002701c13e46$c5f3da10$6701a8c0@laboffice> <01091521161000.03074@two-time.twmaster.com> Message-ID: <17386341568.20010915224242@crosswinds.net> MN> I have an ALR Quad6 that seems to like 4 of them. I have one of those boards (4x4) complete with all the risers and a 72pin SIMM or DIMM memory board. Is your's a whole system or did you have to find a case for it? If you had to get a case where did you get it from? With PPO CPUs coming down in price I'd like to put this up as a replacement for my single P-II 233 SUSE/Samba server at home. Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 15 22:50:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 22:50:39 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Re: Woah (WTC) In-Reply-To: <01366205914.dave.14546@cca.org> References: <01366205914.dave.14546@cca.org> Message-ID: <20010915225039.W880@mrbill.net> On Sat, Sep 15, 2001 at 08:59:14PM -0400, dave at cca.org wrote: > Even if I knew for a fact that it would prevent the senseless death > of innocent American civilians, I would not listen to Def Leppard. Now *that* is what you call Not Liking a Band. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 02:04:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 00:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Fw: OT:Take a look... In-Reply-To: <005a01c13abb$91ab42e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > http://www.viz-a-ball.com/ Hmmm... The site wouldn't load for me... _pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 08:58:28 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 09:58:28 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [SunHELP] Re: Terrorism References: <20010916103222.85552.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00e901c13eb7$ad1a8c20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> First - trim your reply quotes. I realize that these are emotional times, but it only took me 3 seconds to trim the previous messages to acceptable levels. Second - I tire of this. Especially when someone replies with content like you did Faisal. Racsist/Anti-Semetic/AntiUS views are NOT ON TOPIC FOR THIS LIST. If you must discuss it - move it to Geeks. Third - check your facts before sending a message to the list. A mistake about the thermal dynamics of a PPro chip are one thing - mistated figures about how many children died in Iraq post-desert-storm will start a flame war. Fourth - can we please end the accusatory tone? I get the feeling that many people, from very different walks of life feel as if the terrorsists were justified. Or at the minimum, that the US shouldn't respond in any fashion simply because to do so would be fruitless. I simply won't comment on that - I've already expressed my feelings. I would like everyone else to *please* drop the accusations. *PLEASE* Fifth - YOU CAN'T MAKE ME THINK DIFFERENTLY!!! Barrageing the list with your point of view won't change it. Think about it - can *I* change *your* point of view? If not, what makes you think you can change mine. Believe me - I am a dtubborn motherfscker. Sixth - (my only opinion on the subject) Nobody has been more critical of the US government's handling of mid-east relations than it's own people. US Citizens have the ability to change the direction of US policy - not terrorists slamming planes into buildings. If anything, the result of the actions on Sept 11 steeled the resolve and changed the point of view of many citizens. Have you checked the polls lately? Greater than 80% of US citizens support "extreme military action" according to a CNN poll. Two weeks ago, that might have been 15% - so what do you think the accomplishement was? By slamming planes into the WTC, the terrorists turned an overwhelming majority of US citizens that might have been willing to listen to words, into bloodthirsty berserkers. Counterproductive, to say the least... Seventh - ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US (obligitory humor injection) Kurt ----- Original Message ----- From: "faisal gillani" To: Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [SunHELP] Re: Terrorism > Hello there everyone .... > > First of all they dont know for sure that usama did > it it is not necessory he did it .... > Well i am a muslim from Pakistan & all you guys are > network admins so your job is to find the root of the > problem right ? From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 09:13:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 10:13:56 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Fw: OT:Take a look... References: Message-ID: <002e01c13eb9$d3457160$0301a8c0@kensportege> Fine here... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter L. Wargo" To: Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 3:04 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] Fw: OT:Take a look... > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > > > http://www.viz-a-ball.com/ > > Hmmm... The site wouldn't load for me... > > _pete > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 09:47:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:47:49 +0100 Subject: [geeks] RE: Re: [rescue] God bless America In-Reply-To: <20010915192036.C22853@cs.millersville.edu>; from jdboyd@cs.millersville.edu on Sat, Sep 15, 2001 at 07:20:36PM -0400 References: <20010915054500.OTFP1680.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> <20010916002413.A6266@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010915192036.C22853@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010916154749.D20318@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Sat, Sep 15, 2001 at 07:20:36PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > Who rules the Isle of Man? GB? UK and GB aren't the same thing are they? GB == Great Britain == England, Wales and Scotland UK == United Kingdom == Great Britain and Northern Ireland The Isle of Man is a Crown Dependency. It has its own parliament and it's own laws (but also observes English common law), but the head of state is the same parasite as the rest of Britain. In theory it has its own currency, but the Manx Pound is interchangeable with the UKP. It is represented abroad by the UK and defence is the responsibility of the UK. This means that its situation in relation to UK is approximately the same as that of Puerto Rico to the US. The Manx are vociferous about their 'independence', but no-one in GB gives a shit. And certainly as far as every other government is concerned is is part of the UK. Incidentally, I shoud point out that the situation regarding GB and UK is ... complex. When I'm talking about just general international stuff, I use UK. But when talking about internal issues and issues between the isles of Britain and Ireland, I am careful to use the right term. I am one of the very large majority of Britons who do not want anything to do with Northern Ireland. Only 26% of us want to keep Ulster, according to an ICM poll conducted a month ago. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Some people, when confronted with a problem, think ``I know, I'll use regular expressions.'' Now they have two problems. -- jwz From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 12:17:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 16 Sep 2001 10:17:46 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1000660667.9647.8.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Sun, 2001-09-16 at 08:04, Matthew Haas wrote: > On Sun, 16 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > > I did find something at Radio Shack the other day that intrigued me. Some > > sort of electronic cooling device - the bottem gets very cool, while the top > > gets hot. Apparently you place it between the CPU and the heatsink - witha > > fan on top. Looked pretty trick - anyone know how well it works? > > > > Sounds like a Peltier device to me... check this out before playing with > it: Woah, I've been looking for a peltier device for like 6 months now, the only things that I've been able to find up to now are things designed for much larger applications than cooling a CPU or such (they're the size of a letter piece of paper or something). I don't suppose you know any other sites where one can buy these, do you? I actually want to run it in reverse of what these guys are doing. I've got a couple of chunks of metal, one is a stand to hold things up off of the wood stove, and the other is a set of heat-sinc fans. The peltier device gets sandwiched in between these two, and a small electric motor, with a fan, gets hooked to the peltier device. The heat from the wood stove causes the peltier device to generate electrical power output, which then runs the motor fan. The peltier device that I had has a few broken links, so I need to replace it. Greg P.S. reply to geeks, as this isn't a rescue topic anymore From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 12:38:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 13:38:48 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq References: <1000660667.9647.8.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Message-ID: <000b01c13ed6$71e48650$6701a8c0@laboffice> Check out x86 based overclocking websites. Overclockers.com has a lot of interesting articles. Peltiers are very nice, most people end up using peltiers which are rated for more watts then the processor puts out, so as to lower the temperature enough to reach higher clock speeds. When mounting one on a processor, make certain to insulate the surrounding area, this is often done using petroleum based goos and such like to fill the pins of the socket, and neoprene to insulate the area surrounding the socket, by doing this, you can avoid condensation on the equipment. Things get very complex, and most good peltier-processor set ups use water cooling, air is not sufficient for all but the weekest peltiers. Good luck, you can buy peltiers from http://www.3dcool.com/peltiers.shtml, and a number of other places, look around. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Leblanc" To: Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq > Woah, I've been looking for a peltier device for like 6 months now, the > only things that I've been able to find up to now are things designed > for much larger applications than cooling a CPU or such (they're the > size of a letter piece of paper or something). I don't suppose you know > any other sites where one can buy these, do you? From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 13:25:31 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 14:25:31 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [SunHELP] Re: Terrorism References: <20010916103222.85552.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com> <00e901c13eb7$ad1a8c20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010916104756.A2588@frii.com> Message-ID: <016001c13edc$fb3ed210$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Oh fuck.......MOVE IT TO GEEKS!!!!! I stand by my statement BTW. Planes ramrodding the WTC won't change politics. > You state that the "Citizens" (sic) of the U.S. have been more critical > of our policies in Middle East than any other people. In which cases > have we been so? What were the criticisms and thir effects? Did policies > change? If so, how? URLs or book citations are welcome, on- or off-list. > From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 13:31:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 14:31:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq References: <1000660667.9647.8.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Message-ID: <016f01c13edd$d7f819a0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Check Radioshack.com - I'm not sure that they actually *are* Peltier devices - but they seem similar. I found them in the store - logic dictates that the website would also have them. Kurt > Woah, I've been looking for a peltier device for like 6 months now, the > only things that I've been able to find up to now are things designed > for much larger applications than cooling a CPU or such (they're the > size of a letter piece of paper or something). I don't suppose you know > any other sites where one can buy these, do you? > From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 13:44:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Nicholas Dronen) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 12:44:42 -0600 Subject: [geeks] [ndronen@frii.com: Re: [SunHELP] Re: Terrorism] Message-ID: <20010916124442.B6729@frii.com> In resonse to Kurt's request to move the thread to geeks, here it is. ----- Forwarded message from Nicholas Dronen ----- Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 10:47:56 -0600 From: Nicholas Dronen To: sunhelp at sunhelp.org Subject: Re: [SunHELP] Re: Terrorism X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <00e901c13eb7$ad1a8c20$2002a8c0 at TRIUMPH>; from kurt at k-huhn.com on Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 09:58:28AM -0400 On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 09:58:28AM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > First - trim your reply quotes. I realize that these are emotional times, > but it only took me 3 seconds to trim the previous messages to acceptable > levels. > > Second - I tire of this. Especially when someone replies with content like > you did Faisal. Racsist/Anti-Semetic/AntiUS views are NOT ON TOPIC FOR THIS > LIST. If you must discuss it - move it to Geeks. Faisail's email contained a racist statement (the one linking U.S. greed to Jewish ownership of corporations, an unsupported statement that smacks of the old image of the unscrupulous, Mammon-loving Jew [e.g., "The Merchant of Venice" (?)]), which I decry as well, but the rest of it -- I'm inclined to think, given the interviews I've heard of Pakistani shopkeepers -- is fairly representative of the views of some Pakistani Muslims. While it *is* off-topic on this list, it's right and proper to give his email a sympathetic reading. Political views -- unlike racist ones -- deserve a fair shake. There is, after all, nothing reprehensible about expressing anti-U.S. views, whether you're from Pakistan, Sweden, or the U.S. -- unless, of course, you're a blindly strident nationalist. > Third - check your facts before sending a message to the list. A mistake > about the thermal dynamics of a PPro chip are one thing - mistated figures > about how many children died in Iraq post-desert-storm will start a flame > war. So how many children *have* died as a result of sanctions against a country whose infrastructure the U.S. destroyed in the Persian Gulf War? Do you have numbers? If so, please divulge them and their source. Or do you deny that sanctions have such a perverse effect at all? If so, what is the basis for your denial? Do you disagree with UNICEF's findings? http://www.unicef.org/newsline/99pr29.htm The article says that the infant mortality rate has *more* than doubled since the end of the Persian Gulf War. (That, after making good progress in the 1980s.) It then covers interesting statistical ground: Ms. Bellamy noted that if the substantial reduction in child mortality throughout Iraq during the 1980s had continued through the 1990s, there would have been half a million fewer deaths of children under-five in the country as a whole during the eight year period 1991 to 1998. As a partial explanation, she pointed to a March statement of the Security Council Panel on Humanitarian Issues which states: "Even if not all suffering in Iraq can be imputed to external factors, especially sanctions, the Iraqi people would not be undergoing such deprivations in the absence of the prolonged measures imposed by the Security Council and the effects of war." So, there's another figure: 500,000. You can round down in proportion to the degree to which you wish to delude yourself that the U.S. is *invariably* a force for good in the world, necessarily the "good" in the formula of "good v. evil" invoked by Bush in a recent speech. Skeptical? "We are happy with the quality of these surveys. They have been thoroughly reviewed by a panel of independent experts and no major problems were found with either the results or the way the surveys were conducted," Ms. Bellamy stated. The article also states that technical support for the survey was provided by the World Health Organization. [ snip ] > Sixth - (my only opinion on the subject) Nobody has been more critical of > the US government's handling of mid-east relations than it's own people. US > Citizens have the ability to change the direction of US policy - not > terrorists slamming planes into buildings. [ snip ] You state that the "Citizens" (sic) of the U.S. have been more critical of our policies in Middle East than any other people. In which cases have we been so? What were the criticisms and thir effects? Did policies change? If so, how? URLs or book citations are welcome, on- or off-list. Regards, Nicholas Dronen ----- End forwarded message ----- From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 13:50:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 14:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Peltier devices.... In-Reply-To: <1000660667.9647.8.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> References: <1000660667.9647.8.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Message-ID: <20010916185002.CBF1FEA@proven.weird.com> [ On , September 16, 2001 at 10:17:46 (-0700), Gregory Leblanc wrote: ] > Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq > > I actually want to run it in reverse of what these guys are doing. I've > got a couple of chunks of metal, one is a stand to hold things up off of > the wood stove, and the other is a set of heat-sinc fans. The peltier > device gets sandwiched in between these two, and a small electric motor, > with a fan, gets hooked to the peltier device. The heat from the wood > stove causes the peltier device to generate electrical power output, > which then runs the motor fan. The peltier device that I had has a few > broken links, so I need to replace it. You can buy these things made commercially, though the models I've seen are not terribly effective, and they're quite expensive ($160[cdn] for a small one with a two-bladed fan and maybe 1" square Peltier device). One major problem with these things is that you have to be careful not to over-heat the Peltier device as you can easily destroy them at the temperatures a modern air-tight wood stove can commonly get to. The patented commercial models have a little bi-metal spring under the base which will tilt the whole thing up so that the base is not in full contact once the temerature gets high enough. Unfortunately this isn't always enough as the whole device will be heated by radiant heat too. IIRC the pamphlet that came with the model I've seen new gave 700F as the maximum safe temperature, but other references suggest the reflow temperature of the solder used is the critical factor in failure. Some manufactures claim much lower temperatures, such as 80C or 120C; and as with anything related to temperature change, the size of the device is also an important consideration. This, from www.melcore.com, is the best detailed explanation I've found of failures in these devices so far: Inadvertent overheating of the module. The direct soldering process does result in temperature restriction for operation or storage of the modules. At temperatures above 80C two phenomena seriously reduce useful life: Above 80C copper diffusion into the thermoelements occurs due to increasing solid solubility in the thermoelectric material and increasing diffusion rate. At 100 - 110C the combined solubility and diffusion rate could result in approximately 25% loss of device performance within 100 hours. Above 85C in the soldering process (using Bismuth-Tin Alloy) small amounts of selenium, tellurium, antimony and nickel are inherently dissolved into the bismuth-tin solder. Although the melting point of the base solder is 136C, the combined mixture of all elements results in either a minute eutectic phase or a highly effective solid state reaction occurring at above 85C that starts to delaminate the ends of the thermoelements by physical penetration between cleavage planes in the thermoelectric material. This results in a mechanical failure of the interface. See also these sites: http://www.peltier-info.com/accessories.html http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/peltier/ck500.htm -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 14:22:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:22:46 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] Overdrive Chips In-Reply-To: <17386341568.20010915224242@crosswinds.net> References: <01091521161000.03074@two-time.twmaster.com> <17386341568.20010915224242@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <01091615231601.10383@two-time.twmaster.com> On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, you wrote: > MN> I have an ALR Quad6 that seems to like 4 of them. > > I have one of those boards (4x4) complete with all the risers and a 72pin > SIMM or DIMM memory board. > > Is your's a whole system or did you have to find a case for it? If > you had to get a case where did you get it from? > > With PPO CPUs coming down in price I'd like to put this up as a > replacement for my single P-II 233 SUSE/Samba server at home. > I bought 4 complete machines. Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 14:25:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Nicholas Dronen) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 13:25:23 -0600 Subject: [geeks] Re: [SunHELP] Re: Terrorism In-Reply-To: <016001c13edc$fb3ed210$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH>; from kurt@k-huhn.com on Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 02:25:31PM -0400 References: <20010916103222.85552.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com> <00e901c13eb7$ad1a8c20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010916104756.A2588@frii.com> <016001c13edc$fb3ed210$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010916132523.C6729@frii.com> On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 02:25:31PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Oh fuck.......MOVE IT TO GEEKS!!!!! > > I stand by my statement BTW. Planes ramrodding the WTC won't change > politics. > > > You state that the "Citizens" (sic) of the U.S. have been more critical > > of our policies in Middle East than any other people. In which cases > > have we been so? What were the criticisms and thir effects? Did policies > > change? If so, how? URLs or book citations are welcome, on- or off-list. That indeed was your statement. What I'm calling into question is the argument you use to justify it. The argument is supposed to distinguish your statement from bald, willful assertion. In other words, you can "stand by" it, but that doesn't make the way you purported to convince others more or less true. If you can cite instances where Americans have been more critical of U.S. policies in the Middle East than any other people, I'd be genuinely happy to hear of them in as much detail as you can or or care to provide. Really, it should not be difficult to back this up. You said it . . . you must have had some context for believing it to be true . . . so what did you have in mind? Surely you're not scoffing at my request for clarification of a claim you made in public? Also, you're free to challenge the information I provided about infant mortality rates in Iraq. To challenge Faisal's numbers in such a way (viz., " . . . check your facts before") while not providing any data of your own seems like a bait-and-switch tactic. That is, to warn your interlocutor to check his facts, as though you have the correct numbers, and then not to provide those numbers leaves many readers only with the impression that you know better than Faisal (e.g., the paternalistic tone of " . . . check your facts before") and therefore he's just an uninformed Arab. The irony of this element of your resonse to Faisal's email is, of course, that is was Faisal who went out on a limb with data (30,000 children dead in Iraq); and, on most intelligent planets, providing data is an essential component of well-reasoned arguments about political matters. So where are the numbers in which you put faith? As for myself, I would think the UNICEF numbers are a good starting point for discussion. Do you disagree? I don't have any experience in the field in Iraq, so I can only rely on what I would expect to be reliable data. UNICEF + WHO isn't an unreliable pair of groups, is it? Regards, Nicholas Dronen P.S. I've CC'ed Faisal: I don't know if he's on geeks at sunhelp.org. From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 14:38:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:38:11 -0400 Subject: [geeks] [ndronen@frii.com: Re: [SunHELP] Re: Terrorism] References: <20010916124442.B6729@frii.com> Message-ID: <01a201c13ee7$22082090$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> That's more like it - this is slightly closer to the proper forum... > some Pakistani Muslims. While it *is* off-topic on this list, it's > right and proper to give his email a sympathetic reading. Political > views -- unlike racist ones -- deserve a fair shake. > I disagree. He may have right to say whatever he wants. I have a right to "delete with extreme prejudice". I no more have to read his diatribe than he does mine. You can't make me read it no more than I can force you to read the Vi Pocket Reference. That is my perogative, and I stand by it. > There is, after all, nothing reprehensible about expressing anti-U.S. > views, whether you're from Pakistan, Sweden, or the U.S. -- unless, > of course, you're a blindly strident nationalist. hmmmm.... "blindly strident nationalist" smacks of the type that might engage in terrorist activities (WTC anyone?). No, thank you. I will support every person's right to say whatever and think whatever they want. However, when someone that has never posted to the list before (at least that I can recall), posts a diatribe of that type, at this time - I take offense. The forum is not appropriate. Rescue at sunhelp is a list setup for and about rescuing older sun equipment. It not a place to argue theology/politics/philosphy/etc. For the record, I also disagree with his post. It was composed in a manner that can only be meant to raise an emotional response. Calling names, makeing assertions that the US doens't care about any Muslims, saying that US soldiers are going to shoot stone throwing children. It was not composed intelligebly, well thought out, or even logically - MY OPINION. > > > Third - check your facts before sending a message to the list. A mistake > > about the thermal dynamics of a PPro chip are one thing - mistated figures > > about how many children died in Iraq post-desert-storm will start a flame > > war. > > So how many children *have* died as a result of sanctions against > a country whose infrastructure the U.S. destroyed in the Persian > Gulf War? Do you have numbers? If so, please divulge them and > their source. Or do you deny that sanctions have such a perverse > effect at all? If so, what is the basis for your denial? Do you > disagree with UNICEF's findings? > Frankly, I don't know. Yes, that's right, I don't know. However, 30,000 seems like a very arbitrary figure. My statement was meant as a warning to ensure the facts are there - not as a rebuttal to the statement. If the figure is correct, then so be it, if it is wrong (higher or lower) then I feel justitifed in my statement. I do not, however, feel compelled to find out. The rest of the statements you make, I'll leave to people who actually care or have a vested interest in to argue over. They simply fall on dead ears (or eyes) here.... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 14:40:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 14:40:32 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Peltier devices.... In-Reply-To: <20010916185002.CBF1FEA@proven.weird.com> References: <1000660667.9647.8.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> <20010916185002.CBF1FEA@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <38143819593.20010916144032@crosswinds.net> GAW> [ On , September 16, 2001 at 10:17:46 (-0700), Gregory Leblanc wrote: ] >> Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] This Just In: HP to buy Compaq >> >> I actually want to run it in reverse of what these guys are doing. I've >> got a couple of chunks of metal, one is a stand to hold things up off of >> the wood stove, and the other is a set of heat-sinc fans. The peltier >> device gets sandwiched in between these two, and a small electric motor, >> with a fan, gets hooked to the peltier device. The heat from the wood >> stove causes the peltier device to generate electrical power output, >> which then runs the motor fan. The peltier device that I had has a few >> broken links, so I need to replace it. GAW> You can buy these things made commercially, though the models I've seen GAW> are not terribly effective, and they're quite expensive ($160[cdn] for a GAW> small one with a two-bladed fan and maybe 1" square Peltier device). GAW> One major problem with these things is that you have to be careful not GAW> to over-heat the Peltier device as you can easily destroy them at the GAW> temperatures a modern air-tight wood stove can commonly get to. The GAW> patented commercial models have a little bi-metal spring under the base GAW> which will tilt the whole thing up so that the base is not in full GAW> contact once the temerature gets high enough. Unfortunately this isn't GAW> always enough as the whole device will be heated by radiant heat too. GAW> IIRC the pamphlet that came with the model I've seen new gave 700F as GAW> the maximum safe temperature, but other references suggest the reflow GAW> temperature of the solder used is the critical factor in failure. Some GAW> manufactures claim much lower temperatures, such as 80C or 120C; and GAW> as with anything related to temperature change, the size of the device GAW> is also an important consideration. This, from www.melcore.com, is the GAW> best detailed explanation I've found of failures in these devices so far: GAW> Inadvertent overheating of the module. GAW> The direct soldering process does result in temperature restriction GAW> for operation or storage of the modules. At temperatures above 80C GAW> two phenomena seriously reduce useful life: GAW> Above 80C copper diffusion into the thermoelements occurs due to GAW> increasing solid solubility in the thermoelectric material and GAW> increasing diffusion rate. At 100 - 110C the combined solubility GAW> and diffusion rate could result in approximately 25% loss of device GAW> performance within 100 hours. GAW> Above 85C in the soldering process (using Bismuth-Tin Alloy) small GAW> amounts of selenium, tellurium, antimony and nickel are inherently GAW> dissolved into the bismuth-tin solder. Although the melting point of GAW> the base solder is 136C, the combined mixture of all elements GAW> results in either a minute eutectic phase or a highly effective solid GAW> state reaction occurring at above 85C that starts to delaminate the GAW> ends of the thermoelements by physical penetration between cleavage GAW> planes in the thermoelectric material. This results in a mechanical GAW> failure of the interface. GAW> See also these sites: GAW> http://www.peltier-info.com/accessories.html GAW> http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/peltier/ck500.htm You can also get smaller ones through surplus Mac places and even a couple of 1 - 2" ones here: www.sciplus.com (American Science and Surplus) although their stock varies greatly and regularly. Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 14:51:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:51:57 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [SunHELP] Re: Terrorism References: <20010916103222.85552.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com> <00e901c13eb7$ad1a8c20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010916104756.A2588@frii.com> <016001c13edc$fb3ed210$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010916132523.C6729@frii.com> Message-ID: <01b001c13ee9$0e5d4460$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > I stand by my statement BTW. Planes ramrodding the WTC won't change > > politics. > > > > That indeed was your statement. What I'm calling into question > is the argument you use to justify it. The argument is supposed > to distinguish your statement from bald, willful assertion. > In other words, you can "stand by" it, but that doesn't make > the way you purported to convince others more or less true. I don't have to justify it. Plain truth. I can say what I want, feel what I want, think what I want. So can you. So can Faisal. I don't have to justify my assertions to anyone - ain't freedom of expression wonderful? Read my previous post. It was only meant as a warning to ensure the that posted figures are correct. From my POV the figure 30,000 seemed very arbitrary. I didn't post a link to any other figures because I didn't care enough to find out. Yes, that's right. I don't care enough to find out. He didn't post supporting documentation, why should I? I appreciate the post you made to the artical, but I didn't read it. Why? I don't care enough. Take it or leave it. I wasn't trying to justify anything. Fact is, I don't care if you agree or not. > > If you can cite instances where Americans have been more critical > of U.S. policies in the Middle East than any other people, I'd > be genuinely happy to hear of them in as much detail as you can > or or care to provide. Really, it should not be difficult to > back this up. You said it . . . you must have had some context > for believing it to be true . . . so what did you have in mind? > Surely you're not scoffing at my request for clarification of > a claim you made in public? Yes, I scoff. SCOFF SCOFF! Call it what you will. I don't feel as if I need to back it up with supporting documentation. I MYSELF have been critical of US involvement in the mideast - that's all I care about. I write letters, make phone calls, etc. I do my part. > > Also, you're free to challenge the information I provided about Again, I don't care enough to find out. It doesn't interest me, I don't care. I don't have time for such discussion. I've already wasted enough time on this. I'm supposed to be waxing my wife's car, and I'm continuing a pointless discussion about something I for which I have no opinion. Shame on me. I'll remove myself from the conversation - having moved it to geeks at . Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 16:50:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (John) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:50:12 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: Terrorism Message-ID: <000d01c13ef9$914e6f60$1100a8c0@techworld> > So how many children *have* died as a result of sanctions against > a country whose infrastructure the U.S. destroyed in the Persian > Gulf War? Do you have numbers? If so, please divulge them and > their source. Or do you deny that sanctions have such a perverse > effect at all? If so, what is the basis for your denial? Do you > disagree with UNICEF's findings? > Personally, I see no obligation for the US to have dealings with anyone that they do not desire to. One of Afghanistan's biggest beefs has, in fact, been with the UN as well as the US because they will not send the amount of help requested. You can not tell me that blowing innocent people to death for the UN saying no is just. The fact is, they have ruined any chance they may have had for aid from us. There was growing sympathy for many groups in the middle east. That is no more. They have ruined US opinion of all Muslim nations in this act. It will take many years for there to be any hope now of lifting said sanctions. They have also ruined things for the west bank refugees. Israel will be even more strict. I doubt they will get anything now. From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 17:40:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:40:23 +0100 Subject: [geeks] OT: WTC Images... References: Message-ID: <00fc01c13f00$a5b83fb0$0301a8c0@chimp> I received a link to these astounding satellite images the other day... http://www.spaceimaging.com/newsroom/attack_gallery.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tugrul Galatali" To: Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 12:06 AM Subject: [geeks] OT: WTC Images... > I just want to build an archive of images of the towers before their > demise. I don't personally have enough of them because I kinda figured they > would always be there. So if you have scanned or otherwise digital shots, can > you email them to me with the date they were taken? > > *Remember to send them directly to me... hate to have binaries tossed > around the list* > > I might throw together a website in tribute. > > Also, any good/bad words about the Kodak DX3900 (digital camera). I'll > probably order one tomorrow and start photographing the city I know before > something else happens to it. > > Thanks in advance, > Tugrul Galatali > From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 18:06:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Tugrul Galatali) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:06:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [geeks] OT: WTC Images... Message-ID: I just want to build an archive of images of the towers before their demise. I don't personally have enough of them because I kinda figured they would always be there. So if you have scanned or otherwise digital shots, can you email them to me with the date they were taken? *Remember to send them directly to me... hate to have binaries tossed around the list* I might throw together a website in tribute. Also, any good/bad words about the Kodak DX3900 (digital camera). I'll probably order one tomorrow and start photographing the city I know before something else happens to it. Thanks in advance, Tugrul Galatali From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 18:13:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 19:13:02 -0400 Subject: [geeks] OT: WTC Images... References: <00fc01c13f00$a5b83fb0$0301a8c0@chimp> Message-ID: <003401c13f05$26123b80$0301a8c0@kensportege> *Great* link - it will be saved for off-line use.. Thanks! Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Mc Donald" To: Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] OT: WTC Images... > I received a link to these astounding satellite images the other day... > > http://www.spaceimaging.com/newsroom/attack_gallery.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tugrul Galatali" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 12:06 AM > Subject: [geeks] OT: WTC Images... > > > > I just want to build an archive of images of the towers before their > > demise. I don't personally have enough of them because I kinda figured > they > > would always be there. So if you have scanned or otherwise digital shots, > can > > you email them to me with the date they were taken? > > > > *Remember to send them directly to me... hate to have binaries tossed > > around the list* > > > > I might throw together a website in tribute. > > > > Also, any good/bad words about the Kodak DX3900 (digital camera). I'll > > probably order one tomorrow and start photographing the city I know before > > something else happens to it. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Tugrul Galatali > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 19:43:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Phil Brutsche) Date: 16 Sep 2001 19:43:58 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Re: Terrorism In-Reply-To: <000d01c13ef9$914e6f60$1100a8c0@techworld> References: <000d01c13ef9$914e6f60$1100a8c0@techworld> Message-ID: <1000687438.29396.1.camel@fury> On Sun, 2001-09-16 at 16:50, John wrote: > You can not tell me that blowing innocent people to death > for the UN saying no is just. The fact is, they have ruined any chance they > may have had for aid from us. There was growing sympathy for many groups in > the middle east. That is no more. They have ruined US opinion of all Muslim > nations in this act. Quite a dramatic demonstration that a few suicidal lunatics will ruin it for everyone else. -- Phil From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 20:52:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:52:36 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Authors Message-ID: <20010916205236.F2061@mrbill.net> I just finished "Cuba" by Stephen Coonts, and will finish "Hong Kong" by the time the night is out. Looking forward to "America" coming out in paperback. Started "The Bear and the Dragon" by Clancy yesterday, butman, thats a big book. I like to read while in bed lying on my side, and 800+ pages is just too big to hold with one hand while in the first half of the book. 8-) Anybody know if Dale Brown has anything new coming out soon? My favorite three authors (non-scifi) are Clancy, Brown, and Coonts... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 21:08:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 22:08:15 -0400 Subject: [geeks] sony repair experience In-Reply-To: <20010916210147.H20759@zilla.nu> References: <20010916210147.H20759@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010916220815.A11515@cs.millersville.edu> On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 09:01:47PM -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > I could probably use the digital out just fine, but the cost of a > TOSlink DAC for my preamp/amp would be enormous. Have you considered building your own TOSlink DAC? It seems that it could be done realatively easy these days. One DAC chip (from say Crystal Semiconductors) and perhaps the smallest bit of logic should be about all you need. There are numerous documents out on the net about doing so. I keep intending to take this sort of project up. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 21:28:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 22:28:03 -0400 Subject: [geeks] sony repair experience In-Reply-To: <20010916212548.P20759@zilla.nu> References: <20010916210147.H20759@zilla.nu> <20010916220815.A11515@cs.millersville.edu> <20010916212548.P20759@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010916222803.A11816@cs.millersville.edu> On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 09:25:48PM -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 10:08:15PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > > Have you considered building your own TOSlink DAC? It seems that it could > > be done realatively easy these days. One DAC chip (from say Crystal > > Semiconductors) and perhaps the smallest bit of logic should be about all > > you need. There are numerous documents out on the net about doing so. I > > keep intending to take this sort of project up. > > Hmmn. That may be cheaper than repairing the juke. Perhaps a harder project than absoutely nescesary, but particularly interesting is this: http://www.quadesl.com/dac.shtml A tube dac. It doesn't say what format signal it expects. This is where the possibility of a small bit of logic comes into play. http://www.diyaudio.com/ also seems to have a fair amount of relevent info. I keep wanted to get into tube hacking, and getting things to interface with a PeeCee afforably for fun and profit. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 21:51:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 22:51:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] sony repair experience In-Reply-To: <20010916214600.Q20759@zilla.nu> References: <20010916210147.H20759@zilla.nu> <20010916220815.A11515@cs.millersville.edu> <20010916212548.P20759@zilla.nu> <20010916222803.A11816@cs.millersville.edu> <20010916214600.Q20759@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010916225116.B11816@cs.millersville.edu> On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 09:46:00PM -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 10:28:03PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > > http://www.diyaudio.com/ also seems to have a fair amount of relevent > > info. I keep wanted to get into tube hacking, and getting things to > > interface with a PeeCee afforably for fun and profit. > > Well, I could set you up with some of our rejected designs and some > not-quite-prime tubes and parts, if you're interested. Alas, the problem is lack time and energy more than it is lack of money. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 22:20:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 22:20:06 -0500 Subject: [geeks] sony repair experience In-Reply-To: <20010916225116.B11816@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20010916210147.H20759@zilla.nu> <20010916220815.A11515@cs.millersville.edu> <20010916212548.P20759@zilla.nu> <20010916222803.A11816@cs.millersville.edu> <20010916214600.Q20759@zilla.nu> <20010916225116.B11816@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010916222006.J2061@mrbill.net> On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 10:51:16PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > Alas, the problem is lack time and energy more than it is lack of money. I thought you were a college student with plenty of free time? 8-) Bill (why am I addicted to the little cups of pineapple-in-jello for the past two days???) -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 22:36:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:36:36 -0400 Subject: [geeks] sony repair experience In-Reply-To: <20010916222006.J2061@mrbill.net> References: <20010916210147.H20759@zilla.nu> <20010916220815.A11515@cs.millersville.edu> <20010916212548.P20759@zilla.nu> <20010916222803.A11816@cs.millersville.edu> <20010916214600.Q20759@zilla.nu> <20010916225116.B11816@cs.millersville.edu> <20010916222006.J2061@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010916233636.A12320@cs.millersville.edu> On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 10:20:06PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 10:51:16PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > Alas, the problem is lack time and energy more than it is lack of money. > > I thought you were a college student with plenty of free time? 8-) You mistake me for one of those freshmen or sophomores whos parents are paying for everything. No, instead I go to class, go to work, then do homework most evenings. From time to time I find time to see my girlfriend, and rarer still I find time to play guitar or work on imaging or graphics projects. Other projects dealing with robotics or sound hacking are generally limited to the wishlist of things to someday do. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 22:38:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:38:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] sony repair experience In-Reply-To: <20010916222006.J2061@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 10:51:16PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > Alas, the problem is lack time and energy more than it is lack of money. > > I thought you were a college student with plenty of free time? 8-) > > Bill (why am I addicted to the little cups of pineapple-in-jello for the > past two days???) You could be pregnant... -Pedro From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 16 22:39:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] sony repair experience In-Reply-To: <20010916210147.H20759@zilla.nu> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Sep 2001, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > I seem to have damaged the left channel of my sony CD jukebox. Has > anyone ever had any sony stereo eq repaired? Is it worth it, or should > I buy new? I was already thinking about a different CD player as a > primary, using this thing for parties, but now it has no left channel. I've got a pioneer jukebox, if you are interested. _P From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 00:03:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 00:03:33 -0500 Subject: [geeks] sony repair experience In-Reply-To: References: <20010916222006.J2061@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010917000333.L2061@mrbill.net> On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 08:38:26PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > You could be pregnant... I've got a gut on me, but not THAT bad.. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 04:10:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 10:10:57 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] God bless America In-Reply-To: <20010916003005.748AA11BC8@ohno.mrbill.net>; from rescue-request@sunhelp.org on Sat, Sep 15, 2001 at 07:30:05PM -0500 References: <20010916003005.748AA11BC8@ohno.mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010917101056.A28101@plough.barnyard.co.uk> Francisco Javier Mesa-Martinez wrote: > On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, rwalkup wrote: > > [IRA] kill people. Sometimes the people are URC (cops), sometimes British > > Army, sometimes British shoppers near a car bomb. The first two being legitimate targets. > > And yes, in my idiot youth I was one of those Americans who supported the > > IRA I support their claimed aims. But I am doubtful whether the pIRA really has the aims it claims to, and I certainly abhor the way they go about it. They should stick to military targets - army, police, and government. And incidentally, many try to confuse Sinn Fein - a political party which also has the same aims as the pIRA claims to have - with the pIRA. This is wrong. Whilst many Sinn Fein members are also pIRA supporters, that is not a party matter. Sinn Fein and the other republican parties tend to be slightly left-of-centre, although still broadly supportive of capitalism. > Protestant Unionist are the Protestant response to the mostly Catholic > IRA. No. Unionism is a political movement to try to keep Northern Ireland tied to Great Britain. They are overwhelmingly christian protestant, but are not - just like the republican parties - closed to members of other religions. Unionist parties tend to be fairly right-of-centre, and some are so right-wing they would make Thatcher's teeth curl. There are also various terrorist groups espousing the same cause. Their actions, unlike those of the pIRA, are overwhelmingly directed at civilian targets amongst the republican population of the province. > They are pro-British and want to protect the status Quo of Northern > Ireland (i.e. as a British Colony) both politically and socially (i.e. > British political control and Catholic margination). I fail to see how wanting to protect that status quo can be seen as being pro-British. The British people don't want Northern Ireland. > Even Israel that now tries to present itself as an "innocent" victim of > terrorism had a very active Jewish terrorist network in the late 40s > and 50s. Many would argue that they still do, masquerading as government agencies. > Well Marxist and Communist social views are in a sense almost identical to > the original Christian ideals. Like Christianism they, Marxists inspired > theories, were never implemented correctly. In some sense Jesus was the > first communist. "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's"? Frankly, christianity seems rather confused on the issue. > Lighting Path is more a Guerilla movement than a terrorist one. ^^^^^^^^ the usual translation is 'Shining'. Depends who you ask. To some, they are freedom fighters. To others they are terrorists. Pretty much the same as almost every other liberation/ terrorism movement there has ever been, including: the traitors to the Crown who signed the US Declaration of Independence; the French resistance under the German occupation; the ANC and Nelson Mandela; Ben Gurion and the founders of Israel; the PLO -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david If a job's worth doing, it's worth dieing for From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 05:34:31 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:34:31 +0100 Subject: [geeks] [ndronen@frii.com: Re: [SunHELP] Re: Terrorism] In-Reply-To: <01a201c13ee7$22082090$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH>; from kurt@k-huhn.com on Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 03:38:11PM -0400 References: <20010916124442.B6729@frii.com> <01a201c13ee7$22082090$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010917113431.B28101@plough.barnyard.co.uk> On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 03:38:11PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > hmmmm.... "blindly strident nationalist" smacks of the type that might > engage in terrorist activities (WTC anyone?). No, thank you. It also smacks of a *lot* of what I am hearing from US nationals right now. > The forum is not appropriate. Rescue at sunhelp is a list setup > for and about rescuing older sun equipment. It not a place to argue > theology/politics/philosphy/etc. You're right there. > For the record, I also disagree with his post. I disagree with *some* of his posts. The one from the Guardian, though - which is one of the most well-regarded quality newspapers in .uk - I agree with pretty much 100%. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david The voices said it's a good day to clean my weapons From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 06:07:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 12:07:36 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Authors In-Reply-To: <20010916205236.F2061@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 08:52:36PM -0500 References: <20010916205236.F2061@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010917120736.D28101@plough.barnyard.co.uk> On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 08:52:36PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > I just finished "Cuba" by Stephen Coonts, and will finish "Hong Kong" by the > time the night is out. Looking forward to "America" coming out in paperback. Are these similar to Rutherfurd's and Mitchener's historical fiction? Any good? > Started "The Bear and the Dragon" by Clancy yesterday, butman, thats a big > book. I like to read while in bed lying on my side, and 800+ pages is just > too big to hold with one hand while in the first half of the book. 8-) I'm reading The Reality Disfunction and The Neutronium Alchemist atm - each on its own is bigger than that IIRC, and they were meant to be a single work. But I'm reading them on my Palm. I bought the e-books from . I've bought lots of books from them and can't recommend them too highly. They have *lots* of pulp fiction - ideal for turning the brain off and whiling away a journey. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Some people, when confronted with a problem, think ``I know, I'll use regular expressions.'' Now they have two problems. -- jwz From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 07:27:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 08:27:05 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Q: Need some new batteries for UPSs Message-ID: <002f01c13f74$10afd6c0$0301a8c0@kensportege> So, I am starting to pull my UPSs together,and I have two UPSs that need new batteries - both are re-badged APC units: 1. IBM UPS 400 (APC SmartUPS 400) - has a GP 1270 12v 7 Amps battery 2. Unisys UP-9125 (APC SmartUPS 1250) has two batteries that I can't see model numbers (hard to remove) Questions: APC battery exchange program seems high, but it includes S/H of used battery (nice idea) - anyone used this option before? Comments? I can't seem to find a local battery dealer - any ideas what I might be missing (did usual search of my phone book, nothing under Battery*)? Any pointers to battery dealers on the web? All I have seen so far appear to be OEM dealers... And finally, is it possible/advisable to "upgrade" capacity when replacing the batteries? Nothing major, but maybe take a 400 VA UPS to something like 600 va (well, yeah, that's a 50% increase, how about a 1250 va UPS to 1400)? Thanks in advance, Ken From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 07:41:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 05:41:49 -0700 Subject: [geeks] FT: SGI Indigo2 for ham radio equipment Message-ID: > Looking to trade for: > > 2 meter transceivers and/or packet radio equipment > > HF/shortwave receivers or transceivers (solid state only, > please - no tubes) > > Scanners (Radio Shack Pro-2004/5/6, etc, or a newer trunking- > capable unit) AARRGGHH! No tubes? Real radios glow in the dark dude. I can't believe a geek said no tubes! I love my Hammerlund HQ-160. No finer reciever ever made (except for certain Collins, esp S-line). So, I guess you won't be wanting my minty-mint Kenwood TS-530S hybrid 150 watt digitally tuned HF rig with WARC bands and GC reciever and only three tubes in the circuit (driver and two finals). Your trades seems too tempting. What is a fair geek cash value for the Indy? That would give me an idea of what to offer. I have some spare RF stuff, infact something in every category you mentioned. From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 07:50:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 05:50:32 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Cisco STS-10x Terminal Server Programming Message-ID: I found a doc on cisco's website. I quickly scanned it and it seems to have some relative info., esp about when the machine tries to netboot and setting some bits to make it use the CR entry point into flash. I am sending it to your email address, so if you're on dialup it may take a while to download. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kris Kirby [mailto:kris at catonic.net] > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 11:14 PM > To: 'geeks at sunhelp.org' > Subject: RE: [geeks] Cisco STS-10x Terminal Server Programming > > > On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Fogg, James wrote: > > I am not familiar with the STS-10x, but based on every > other peice of Cisco > > I have touched in 10 years, you are looking at a config > register issue. > > Anything with a CF issue will behave this way. > > > > If you find yourself stuck I can get tech support to tell > me the one or two > > places that CF should be. > > Have tried setting the CF register to 0x2102 but it doesn't stick and > doesn't change the default behavior. I'm also unable to locate another > Cisco STS-10x in my area. > > ----- > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > | > ------------------------------------------------------- > "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 07:55:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 05:55:46 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Cisco STS-10x Terminal Server Programming Message-ID: also try 0X1242. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kris Kirby [mailto:kris at catonic.net] > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 11:14 PM > To: 'geeks at sunhelp.org' > Subject: RE: [geeks] Cisco STS-10x Terminal Server Programming > > > On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Fogg, James wrote: > > I am not familiar with the STS-10x, but based on every > other peice of Cisco > > I have touched in 10 years, you are looking at a config > register issue. > > Anything with a CF issue will behave this way. > > > > If you find yourself stuck I can get tech support to tell > me the one or two > > places that CF should be. > > Have tried setting the CF register to 0x2102 but it doesn't stick and > doesn't change the default behavior. I'm also unable to locate another > Cisco STS-10x in my area. > > ----- > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > | > ------------------------------------------------------- > "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 07:58:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 05:58:17 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Cisco STS-10x Terminal Server Programming Message-ID: Oops.. sorry, last post left out important stuff. Break the boot cycle like you would with the password recovery. when broken, type o/r 0x2142 then i See if it bootens. This manually tells the system where to boot from. > Have tried setting the CF register to 0x2102 but it doesn't stick and > doesn't change the default behavior. I'm also unable to locate another > Cisco STS-10x in my area. > > ----- > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > | > ------------------------------------------------------- > "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 08:05:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 06:05:50 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Cisco STS-10x Terminal Server Programming Message-ID: You can also try... boot system flash "filename" in your config, then boot. btw... if this is a really old IOS, you'll need "write mem" as the command to save the config. write mem works in most current IOS's as a backward compatibility feature, so using it has no ill effects. btw... you can also "write term" to see if anything really exists. You can "write net" to save to tftp. I have been assuming you knew that you have to save the config from RAM to ROM with "copy running-config startup-config", which is the newer version of "write mem". A "show start" reveals whats stored for the next bootup. "show run" shows what is in RAM, but will disapear at boot unless you "copy run start". > -----Original Message----- > From: Kris Kirby [mailto:kris at catonic.net] > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 11:14 PM > To: 'geeks at sunhelp.org' > Subject: RE: [geeks] Cisco STS-10x Terminal Server Programming > > > On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Fogg, James wrote: > > I am not familiar with the STS-10x, but based on every > other peice of Cisco > > I have touched in 10 years, you are looking at a config > register issue. > > Anything with a CF issue will behave this way. > > > > If you find yourself stuck I can get tech support to tell > me the one or two > > places that CF should be. > > Have tried setting the CF register to 0x2102 but it doesn't stick and > doesn't change the default behavior. I'm also unable to locate another > Cisco STS-10x in my area. > > ----- > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > | > ------------------------------------------------------- > "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 10:48:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Q: Need some new batteries for UPSs In-Reply-To: <002f01c13f74$10afd6c0$0301a8c0@kensportege> References: <002f01c13f74$10afd6c0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010917154803.0D55EEA@proven.weird.com> [ On Monday, September 17, 2001 at 08:27:05 (-0400), Ken Hansen wrote: ] > Subject: [geeks] Q: Need some new batteries for UPSs > > APC battery exchange program seems high, but it includes S/H of used > battery (nice idea) - anyone used this option before? Comments? Up here APC's battery prices are almost twice what you can get good third party batteries of identical specifications for. The exchange program doesn't cover the cost of shipping the dead ones back to them either -- that additional postage. > I can't seem to find a local battery dealer - any ideas what I might be > missing (did usual search of my phone book, nothing under Battery*)? Ah, that's too bad -- we've got many good dealers here, and there's even a little retail store about a half mile from where I live that sells every and any kind of battery you can imagine. It's their retail price that was so much less than APC's price. I'm sure they've got a 40% markup too! ;-) > Any pointers to battery dealers on the web? All I have seen so far appear > to be OEM dealers... I did find a large number of people stocking batteries on the WWW, but none that would ship even easy-to-ship sealed batteries to Canada. > And finally, is it possible/advisable to "upgrade" capacity when replacing > the batteries? Nothing major, but maybe take a 400 VA UPS to something > like 600 va (well, yeah, that's a 50% increase, how about a 1250 va UPS > to 1400)? No, definitelly not.... If the firmware in the unit is smart enough you might be able to extend the run time, but that's about it. Any half-decent UPS will simply shut down when you draw too much power through it. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 12:12:25 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 17:12:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Q: Need some new batteries for UPSs In-Reply-To: <20010917154803.0D55EEA@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Greg A. Woods wrote: > Up here APC's battery prices are almost twice what you can get good > third party batteries of identical specifications for. seconded. > The exchange program doesn't cover the cost of shipping the dead ones > back to them either -- that additional postage. shipping batteries == bad > > I can't seem to find a local battery dealer - any ideas what I might be > > missing (did usual search of my phone book, nothing under Battery*)? > > Ah, that's too bad -- we've got many good dealers here, and there's even > a little retail store about a half mile from where I live that sells > every and any kind of battery you can imagine. It's their retail price > that was so much less than APC's price. I'm sure they've got a 40% > markup too! ;-) Find out how the local mechanics get thier batteries from. You'll probably wind up in a store that carries loads of batteries and in different sizes. The local store here (The Battery Store) carries damn near everything -- from large dry cells to UPS batteries of all sizes, and I think they have a dealership on forklift batteries. The 12V 7AH UPS batteries (APC SmartUPS 600 uses two in series) are $18.20; the 12V 11AH UPS batteries my Deltec 600s are $28.70. > > And finally, is it possible/advisable to "upgrade" capacity when replacing > > the batteries? Nothing major, but maybe take a 400 VA UPS to something > > like 600 va (well, yeah, that's a 50% increase, how about a 1250 va UPS > > to 1400)? > > No, definitelly not.... If the firmware in the unit is smart enough you > might be able to extend the run time, but that's about it. Any > half-decent UPS will simply shut down when you draw too much power > through it. In order to increase the capacity, you'd have to upgrade the inverter itself. I've done a few "interesting" things to UPSes to make it easier to handle higher duty cycles (such as soldering a fan across the battery leads) as well as adding additional battery backup (I'm awful -- I've got two 33AH batteries instead of the 7AH cells connected to one UPS). ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 13:05:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:05:56 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Q: Need some new batteries for UPSs Message-ID: > The local store here (The Battery Store) carries damn near > everything -- Thats the store in Harrisburg I mentioned. From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 13:18:24 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Adam Kropelin) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 14:18:24 -0400 Subject: [rescue] Re: [geeks] Q: Need some new batteries for UPSs In-Reply-To: <20010917154803.0D55EEA@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <70D6465CE433D41187110001025FCF302CB9D0@mail.netlinkaccess.com> I found this intersting tidbit in the apcupsd FAQ (http://www.apcupsd.org). You might email Andr=E9 to see if he = experienced any problems long-term, but it certainly seems promising. --Adam > And Andr=E9 Hendrick says:=20 > [For replacement batteries] You need to goto you your local Yamaha SeaDoo shop. There=20 > are 35 AMP Hour deep cycle marine batteries that are direct replacements. These are=20 > gel-cel and will double the runtime and/or cut your recharge time in half.=20 >=20 > Jet Works > 1587 Monrovia Ave. > Newport Beach CA 9266? > Tel: +1 714 548-5259 >=20 > J-W Batteries, Inc. > Tel: +1 714 548-4017 >=20 > WPS 49-1200 > GEL-CELL KB-35 BATTERY >=20 > For those that do not know what this means........ > I found the best battery for APCC UPS products that use In the two systems below:=20 >=20 > SMART-UPS 3000 10.9% is running at 327W runs for 47.0 min. > Smart-UPS 1250 22.3% is running at 279W runs for 54.0 min. >=20 > APCUPSD UPS Network Monitor > Thu Jan 18 21:55:36 PST 2001 > System Model Status Battery Chg Utility UPS Load UPS Temp Batt. Run Time Data > Linux ATA Development SMART-UPS 3000 ONLINE > 100.0 % 120.2 VAC 10.9 % 36.9 C 47.0 min. All data > Linux ATA Development II APC Smart-UPS 1250 ONLINE > 100.0 % 119.6 VAC 22.3 % 45.9 C 54.0 min. All data >=20 >=20 > Look at the numbers and see that these batteries are better and have more total running > energy than standard ones. >=20 >=20 > SMART-UPS 3000 10.9% is running at 327W runs for 47.0 min. > Smart-UPS 1250 22.3% is running at 279W runs for 54.0 min. >=20 > APCUPSD UPS Network Monitor > Thu Jan 18 22:00:45 PST 2001 > System Model Status Battery Chg Utility UPS Load UPS Temp Batt. Run Time Data > Linux ATA Development SMART-UPS 3000 ONLINE > 100.0 % 120.2 VAC 19.2 % 36.9 C 27.0 min. All data > Linux ATA Development II APC Smart-UPS 1250 ONLINE > 100.0 % 119.6 VAC 21.8 % 45.9 C 55.0 min. All data >=20 > SMART-UPS 3000 19.2% is running at 576W runs for 27.0 min. > Smart-UPS 1250 21.8% is running at 273W runs for 55.0 min. > Smart-UPS 1250 46.1% is running at 576W runs for 26.0 min. >=20 > Kind of cool. > The 1250 can outrun the 3000 by a factor of two under identical percentages, or run=20 > head to head for the same time. >=20 > SMART-UPS 3000 is a 48V based or 4 batteries > Smart-UPS 1250 is a 24V based or 2 batteries > Cheers, > Andre Hedrick > Linux ATA Development From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 13:40:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 17 Sep 2001 11:40:53 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Re: [SunHELP] Terrorism In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010917121208.00aa0c28@postoffice.providence.edu> References: <3BA4EC00.2BA58457@braincenter.de> <5.1.0.14.0.20010917121208.00aa0c28@postoffice.providence.edu> Message-ID: <1000752053.3159.3.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Mon, 2001-09-17 at 09:15, Edward Chase wrote: > > How can you think that Usama is not behind this? I do believe that the FBI > or CIA have linked all the known people involved in this incident back to > Usama. Well, they can probably think this the same what that you can't be bothered to spell his name right. Come on people, it's all over the newspapers, can't you even look it up? Osama bin Laden, spelled and capitalized just like that. Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 13:53:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Edward Chase) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 14:53:17 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [SunHELP] Terrorism In-Reply-To: <1000752053.3159.3.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010917121208.00aa0c28@postoffice.providence.edu> <3BA4EC00.2BA58457@braincenter.de> <5.1.0.14.0.20010917121208.00aa0c28@postoffice.providence.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010917145040.042f6cd8@postoffice.providence.edu> Hey, I just copied his name from the message I was replying to... I supposed that I should have noticed that it was spelled incorrectly. At 11:40 AM 9/17/2001 -0700, Gregory Leblanc wrote: >Well, they can probably think this the same what that you can't be >bothered to spell his name right. Come on people, it's all over the >newspapers, can't you even look it up? Osama bin Laden, spelled and >capitalized just like that. > Greg >On Mon, 2001-09-17 at 09:15, Edward Chase wrote: > > > > How can you think that Usama is not behind this? I do believe that the > FBI > > or CIA have linked all the known people involved in this incident back to > > Usama. --------------------------------------------------------------- Edward F. Chase III | echase at providence.edu Providence College | http://www.providence.edu Computer Services | http://studentweb.providence.edu Providence, RI 02918 | From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 14:00:10 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Q: Need some new batteries for UPSs In-Reply-To: References: <20010917154803.0D55EEA@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010917190010.DD261E8@proven.weird.com> [ On Monday, September 17, 2001 at 17:12:25 (+0000), Kris Kirby wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] Q: Need some new batteries for UPSs > > shipping batteries == bad So far as I know there are no restrictions on shipping sealed gelled lead-acid batteries (which APC use exclusively in their smaller machines), except the weight issue. Last time I checked the USPS and the Canadian Postal service both accept them. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 14:32:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Nicholas Dronen) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 13:32:43 -0600 Subject: [geeks] Re: [SunHELP] Terrorism In-Reply-To: <1000752053.3159.3.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com>; from gleblanc@linuxweasel.com on Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 11:40:53AM -0700 References: <3BA4EC00.2BA58457@braincenter.de> <5.1.0.14.0.20010917121208.00aa0c28@postoffice.providence.edu> <1000752053.3159.3.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Message-ID: <20010917133243.A38518@frii.com> On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 11:40:53AM -0700, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > On Mon, 2001-09-17 at 09:15, Edward Chase wrote: > > > > How can you think that Usama is not behind this? I do believe that the FBI > > or CIA have linked all the known people involved in this incident back to > > Usama. > > Well, they can probably think this the same what that you can't be > bothered to spell his name right. Come on people, it's all over the > newspapers, can't you even look it up? Osama bin Laden, spelled and > capitalized just like that. The native languages of Yemen and Saudi Arabia are Arabic, so his name is probably Arabic -- thus (and obviously) the English spelling is a transliteration. That there is a "correct" English spelling of his name, and what that spelling is, is a matter left to language scholars of some sort, not the Associated Press or other US news agencies. Anyway, by your account the FBI's been spelling his name "incorrectly" since June of 1999. http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/topten/fugitives/laden.htm Regards, Nicholas Dronen From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 14:49:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:49:56 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SPARCstation IPC? Message-ID: <002301c13fb1$ee094230$6701a8c0@laboffice> Hello, Recently someone commented that they wish there was a PC with the IPC/IPX formfactor. I just remembered something I found a while back, and thought I would drop it here. Adrian Bawn seems to have taken an IPC and stuck PC components into it. http://www.btinternet.com/~powersoft.pt/sun/ Zach From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 15:00:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:00:12 -0500 Subject: [geeks] speaking of ATX cases Message-ID: <20010917150012.Q2061@mrbill.net> I've got a 1U rackmount case that may be available soon: http://www.sunhelp.org/reviews/1u/1u-front.jpg I may be moving the system to a normal desktop-style case. You'll need rackmount ears, tho, as I dont know what happened to the ones that were on the case (I took them off to fit it on top of another system that was already racked, and they dissapeared). Anybody interested, email me. I'll include the slimline IDE CD-ROM drive in there as well. Has space for the motherboard, two 3.5" HDs (with mounting brackets), etc. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 15:23:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:23:49 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Ermey has an action figure Message-ID: http://rleeermey.com/lindex.html R. Lee Ermey (Gunnery Sargent Hartman in Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket) has an action figure.... ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 15:32:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:32:57 -0500 Subject: [geeks] [edoc@citicom.com: [cfgeeks] Re: Red Cross Bills?] Message-ID: <20010917153257.W2061@mrbill.net> Interesting thought/discussion from another list. Anybody know if this is BS, or what? Bill ----- Forwarded message from edoc ----- To: From: "edoc" Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 09:20:00 -0400 Reply-To: cfgeeks at yahoogroups.com Subject: [cfgeeks] Re: Red Cross Bills? You certain it was a "bill"? They really have no authority to issue bills. I am guessing it was a statement of the approximate cost and a request for a "donation" to replace that expenditure so that they might serve others. I'll have to ask the Red Cross folks over here. Doc I was taling with my Dad and Grandpa, and they had some interesting views about the red cross. One of them had a buddy in Pearl Harbor, he was wounded and mildly burned. The red corss helped patch him up, and gave him a new set of clothes to wear (everything he had was on his ship that went down). He caught the next train home, and one month later, the Red Cross sends him a bill for the clothes that they gave him. There was no mention that they were going to charge him for it, what the heck? They also heard of other stories like that second-hand as well. He said to ask almost any WWII era veteran and he was sure they would have or heard of like stories. Also, I have heard that they bill entities that they help, one time my Dad was helping out in an airplane crash at NY while he was in the reserves in the 60's, He was talking with some of the staff and learned then that the Airlines always get a bill from the Red Cross after a disaster for all hours staffed, supplies, etc.. So it seems they act more like an ambulatory service, charging for their services and asking for donations. Has anyone else heard of these stories? They did speak highly of the Salvation Army relief efforts, and that they were more of a true service entity, and were not out to bill the victims they helped. Gil Young Call Sign: KG4KVX "It's Clobbering Time", The Thing, Fantastic Four, Marvel Comics ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 15:51:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 16:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [rescue] Re: [geeks] Q: Need some new batteries for UPSs In-Reply-To: <70D6465CE433D41187110001025FCF302CB9D0@mail.netlinkaccess.com> References: <20010917154803.0D55EEA@proven.weird.com> <70D6465CE433D41187110001025FCF302CB9D0@mail.netlinkaccess.com> Message-ID: <20010917205150.E061CE8@proven.weird.com> > > And Andr Hendrick says: > > [For replacement batteries] You need to goto you your local Yamaha SeaDoo shop. There > > are 35 AMP Hour deep cycle marine batteries that are direct replacements. These are > > gel-cel and will double the runtime and/or cut your recharge time in half. > > > > Jet Works > > 1587 Monrovia Ave. > > Newport Beach CA 9266? > > Tel: +1 714 548-5259 > > > > J-W Batteries, Inc. > > Tel: +1 714 548-4017 > > > > WPS 49-1200 > > GEL-CELL KB-35 BATTERY This is very interesting news --- is this cell the same size? I.e. will it fit inside my UPS? I tend to run my UPS' at close to their maximum ratings but that means I end up with very little run time. If I can extend the runtime I sure will! What concerned me in the past with doing this is that APC seem to have encoded knowledge of battery characteristics in their firmware and unless the particular UPS has external battery connectors it might not function properly (either not charge correctly or maybe not make full use of the extended capability). -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 16:25:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 16:25:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Ermey has an action figure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > R. Lee Ermey (Gunnery Sargent Hartman in Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket) has > an action figure.... Yep seen it at KBtoys. They also have The McKenzie Brothers(of Great White North, SCTV, Strange Brew) action figures. Comes complete with cases of beer,empty beer bottles, loose bottle caps and doughnuts. |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 18:00:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:00:39 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SPARCstation IPC? References: <002301c13fb1$ee094230$6701a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: <009e01c13fcc$9254e500$0301a8c0@kensportege> Uhm, they forgot the cup outline on top to place your coffee cup towarm your coffee ;^) Neat idea, appears to work fine, but, not very "cool" IMHO... Still, thanks for the link Zach! Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zach Malone" To: Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 3:49 PM Subject: [geeks] SPARCstation IPC? > Hello, > Recently someone commented that they wish there was a PC with the > IPC/IPX formfactor. I just remembered something I found a while back, and > thought I would drop it here. Adrian Bawn seems to have taken an IPC and > stuck PC components into it. > http://www.btinternet.com/~powersoft.pt/sun/ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 18:22:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 23:22:56 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] SPARCstation IPC? In-Reply-To: <009e01c13fcc$9254e500$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > Uhm, they forgot the cup outline on top to place your coffee cup towarm your > coffee ;^) > > Neat idea, appears to work fine, but, not very "cool" IMHO... > > Still, thanks for the link Zach! I don't see a power supply in that thing. > > http://www.btinternet.com/~powersoft.pt/sun/ ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 17 22:51:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Robert Slover) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:51:52 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Re: [edoc@citicom.com: [cfgeeks] Re: Red Cross Bills?] (Bill Bradford) Message-ID: <3BA6C4D8.32C63BC8@earthlink.net> It is true. In the mid-70s, my family lost everything in a flood. I was 8 years old IIRC. The Red Cross 'gave' my mother a pushbroom and sturdy rag mop, and some other cleaning supplies (which all came to naught, since the house itself was useless after the basement walls caved in). Shortly thereafter, she was surprised to get a bill from the Red Cross. My grandmother verified that this was 'standard' procedure for them. They are not a charity, but I don't think they expect to turn a profit either. I'm not sure if all chapters do this, and it is my understanding that chapters function fairly independently. I think the main difficulty I have with it is that no warning is given that you'll be billed. I know my mother certainly wouldn't have accepted the cleaning materials if she'd known what she was being charged...we were a poor family, and the prices were quite beyond what we'd ordinarily have made due with. There are many other organizations that accept donations even while they charge for services...most colleges, for example...and the members of the Red Cross are pledged to go into harm's way with the Armed Forces as need be. As well, they provide services beyond 'disaster' relief, with things like 'Lifeline' which offers 24-hour telephone counselers to potential suicides, domestic abuse victims, rape and incest victims, etc...their costs are therefore probably greater than a 'pure' disaster relief group. My feelings about it are mixed...they certainly 'appear' to provide relief without compensation...but experience indicates otherwise...they do not advertise this fact...and likely receive more 'donations' as a consequence. If this is the practice of individual chapters it bothers me less than if it is a practice of the national organization. Their FAQ does not mention it at all. --Robert > Interesting thought/discussion from another list. Anybody know if this is > BS, or what? > > Bill > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 18 04:29:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 04:29:45 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Re: [edoc@citicom.com: [cfgeeks] Re: Red Cross Bills?] (Bill Bradford) In-Reply-To: <3BA6C4D8.32C63BC8@earthlink.net> References: <3BA6C4D8.32C63BC8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010918042945.M2061@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 10:51:52PM -0500, Robert Slover wrote: > It is true. In the mid-70s, my family lost everything in a flood. I > was 8 years old IIRC. The Red Cross 'gave' my mother a pushbroom and > sturdy rag mop, and some other cleaning supplies (which all came to > naught, since the house itself was useless after the basement walls > caved in). Shortly thereafter, she was surprised to get a bill from the > Red Cross. My grandmother verified that this was 'standard' procedure > for them. They are not a charity, but I don't think they expect to turn > a profit either. I'm not sure if all chapters do this, and it is my > understanding that chapters function fairly independently. With all the money that has been raised with donations (something like $35+ million so far, since Tuesday, I've heard) I certainly wont be happy if I hear them sending out bills after this incident... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 18 07:35:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:35:32 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: [edoc@citicom.com: [cfgeeks] Re: Red Cross Bills?] (Bill Bradford) References: <3BA6C4D8.32C63BC8@earthlink.net> <20010918042945.M2061@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <005501c1403e$6d902dc0$0301a8c0@kensportege> On The Red Cross, I have no answers, only information and opinions: Information: The Red Cross has openings in their collections department (see http://www.redcross.org/jobs/finance.html#CreditCollections ), and I can't for the life of me think what an external customer is if not a victim in an emergency. Opinion: *IF* the Red Cross ofers aid, then presents a bill for the delivered services, well, that worries me, but I don't know enough to make a decision. I mean, the local fire company/first-aid squad has been known to send bills to folks they transport to the hospital, and that's OK (Insurance will typically pick up the tab I suspect, allowing the fire squad/first-aid to continue to operate). If the Red Cross "bill" is handled as guideline document for future giving, then that seems reasonable ("We provided you with $500 in services, how much would you like to contribute? $________"). Now, if failure to "contribute" winds up on your credit report, well, that is bad... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 5:29 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] Re: [edoc at citicom.com: [cfgeeks] Re: Red Cross Bills?] (Bill Bradford) > On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 10:51:52PM -0500, Robert Slover wrote: > > It is true. In the mid-70s, my family lost everything in a flood. I > > was 8 years old IIRC. The Red Cross 'gave' my mother a pushbroom and > > sturdy rag mop, and some other cleaning supplies (which all came to > > naught, since the house itself was useless after the basement walls > > caved in). Shortly thereafter, she was surprised to get a bill from the > > Red Cross. My grandmother verified that this was 'standard' procedure > > for them. They are not a charity, but I don't think they expect to turn > > a profit either. I'm not sure if all chapters do this, and it is my > > understanding that chapters function fairly independently. > > With all the money that has been raised with donations (something like > $35+ million so far, since Tuesday, I've heard) I certainly wont be > happy if I hear them sending out bills after this incident... > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 18 07:44:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:44:34 -0400 Subject: [geeks] On the topic of heat shutdown in Intel CPUs... Message-ID: <000f01c1403f$ac1a3300$0301a8c0@kensportege> An interesting read from Tom's Hardware Guide, dated Sept. 17, 2001: http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010917/index.html Nice pictures of toasted AMD CPUs, along with stories of how PIII/1000 and P4/2000CPUs handle heat overload nicely (don't burn out in under 10 seconds!)... Ken From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 18 08:30:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:30:14 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Re: [edoc@citicom.com: [cfgeeks] Re: Red Cross Bills?] (Bill Bradford) In-Reply-To: <005501c1403e$6d902dc0$0301a8c0@kensportege> References: <3BA6C4D8.32C63BC8@earthlink.net> <20010918042945.M2061@mrbill.net> <005501c1403e$6d902dc0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010918083014.Q2061@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 08:35:32AM -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > Now, if failure to "contribute" winds up on your credit report, well, that > is bad... I fail to see how they could stop and collect enough information from someone in a time of crisis to put it on their credit report later.... Bill > > Ken > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Bradford" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 5:29 AM > Subject: Re: [geeks] Re: [edoc at citicom.com: [cfgeeks] Re: Red Cross Bills?] > (Bill Bradford) > > > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 10:51:52PM -0500, Robert Slover wrote: > > > It is true. In the mid-70s, my family lost everything in a flood. I > > > was 8 years old IIRC. The Red Cross 'gave' my mother a pushbroom and > > > sturdy rag mop, and some other cleaning supplies (which all came to > > > naught, since the house itself was useless after the basement walls > > > caved in). Shortly thereafter, she was surprised to get a bill from the > > > Red Cross. My grandmother verified that this was 'standard' procedure > > > for them. They are not a charity, but I don't think they expect to turn > > > a profit either. I'm not sure if all chapters do this, and it is my > > > understanding that chapters function fairly independently. > > > > With all the money that has been raised with donations (something like > > $35+ million so far, since Tuesday, I've heard) I certainly wont be > > happy if I hear them sending out bills after this incident... > > > > Bill > > > > -- > > Bill Bradford > > mrbill at mrbill.net > > Austin, TX > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 18 13:18:35 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:18:35 -0500 Subject: [geeks] *ping* Message-ID: <20010918131835.V2061@mrbill.net> We have a machine that goes *ping*! -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 18 13:52:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Edward Chase) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:52:58 -0400 Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: <20010918131835.V2061@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010918145212.03cf97d0@postoffice.providence.edu> Is is run by the knights that go "Ni"? At 01:18 PM 9/18/2001 -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: >We have a machine that goes *ping*! --------------------------------------------------------------- Edward F. Chase III | echase at providence.edu Providence College | http://www.providence.edu Computer Services | http://studentweb.providence.edu Providence, RI 02918 | From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 18 15:02:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:02:12 -0500 Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: <20010918131835.V2061@mrbill.net> References: <20010918131835.V2061@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <1914584997.20010918150212@crosswinds.net> BB> We have a machine that goes *ping*! *pong* From a really slow outgoing mail server... *sigh* Gotta get my friend's DSL running properly. -- Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 18 15:07:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Trevor Taylor) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:07:09 -0500 Subject: [geeks] *ping* References: <20010918131835.V2061@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <004a01c1407d$7f85f660$470a0a0a@smartframe.goeframe.net> PONG... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 1:18 PM Subject: [geeks] *ping* > We have a machine that goes *ping*! > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 18 15:40:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:40:42 -0400 Subject: [geeks] *ping* References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010918145212.03cf97d0@postoffice.providence.edu> Message-ID: <051401c14082$32340280$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> No! Its a witch! A wiiiiitch!!! > Is is run by the knights that go "Ni"? > > >We have a machine that goes *ping*! > > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 18 22:00:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Keith Campbell) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 23:00:59 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Q: Need some new batteries for UPSs References: <002f01c13f74$10afd6c0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <00ba01c140b7$5341d260$4db44f0c@q5190> I've got a friend in the electrical & alarm business that can get batteries cheap, which leads me to believe you might find them in your local electrical supply dealer. You may just find the batteries you need are also used in fire alarms and burglar alarms etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Hansen" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 08:27 AM Subject: [geeks] Q: Need some new batteries for UPSs > So, I am starting to pull my UPSs together,and I have two UPSs that need new > batteries - both are re-badged APC units: > > 1. IBM UPS 400 (APC SmartUPS 400) - has a GP 1270 12v 7 Amps battery > > 2. Unisys UP-9125 (APC SmartUPS 1250) has two batteries that I can't see > model numbers (hard to remove) > > Questions: > > APC battery exchange program seems high, but it includes S/H of used > battery (nice idea) - anyone used this option before? Comments? > > I can't seem to find a local battery dealer - any ideas what I might be > missing (did usual search of my phone book, nothing under Battery*)? > > Any pointers to battery dealers on the web? All I have seen so far > appear > to be OEM dealers... > > And finally, is it possible/advisable to "upgrade" capacity when > replacing > the batteries? Nothing major, but maybe take a 400 VA UPS to something > like 600 va (well, yeah, that's a 50% increase, how about a 1250 va UPS > to 1400)? > > Thanks in advance, > > Ken > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 19 17:24:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 18:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: <004a01c1407d$7f85f660$470a0a0a@smartframe.goeframe.net> Message-ID: > > > We have a machine that goes *ping*! Give me a ping, Vasili...one ping only please. From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 05:54:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 06:54:12 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SPARCstation IPC? References: Message-ID: <3BA9CAD4.D9254E42@avoidant.org> Kris Kirby wrote: > I don't see a power supply in that thing. > > > > http://www.btinternet.com/~powersoft.pt/sun/ In the top, no? ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 09:29:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 09:29:05 -0500 Subject: [geeks] testing Message-ID: <20010920092905.H19415@mrbill.net> testing -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 09:35:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 09:35:58 -0500 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day Message-ID: <20010920093558.J19415@mrbill.net> Guy sends me an email yesterday with obviously a homework question. I tell him to look at Sun's web site, and to do his own homework. First thing this morning, i get this reply: From: gstokes at aselart.com Thu Sep 20 07:10:09 2001 Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 07:09:29 -0500 From: Gene Stokes Subject: RE: Solaris OS To: Bill Bradford Reply-To: gstokes at aselart.com I am...ASSHOLE -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bradford [mailto:mrbill at mrbill.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 10:26 PM To: Gene Stokes Subject: Re: Solaris OS www.sun.com/solaris Please do your own homework. On Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 08:30:25AM -0500, Gene Stokes wrote: > Hello, > I am doing research for a class and I have a question. What are three > main characteristics of Solaris? > Thanks, > Gene - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Then, he follows up with this one, with no prompting: From: gstokes at aselart.com Thu Sep 20 07:12:39 2001 Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 07:12:01 -0500 From: Gene Stokes Subject: RE: Solaris OS To: Bill Bradford Reply-To: gstokes at aselart.com And 1 more thing...I am 35...not 18 you fucking ASSHOLE. This is why we cant get along with each other because of rude fucking comments like the one you said...ASSHOLE!! Thanks, Gene - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I send him a response telling him that he's not likely to get help if he calls people names, and that he should do his own research. He seems to not have looked at the URL I gave him, which would have answered his question. The final mail (so far) from him today: From: gstokes at aselart.com Thu Sep 20 07:23:08 2001 Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 07:22:28 -0500 From: Gene Stokes Subject: RE: Solaris OS To: Bill Bradford Reply-To: gstokes at aselart.com And I am...ASSHOLE Why do you think I e-mailed a source that I do not know...what is that called you idiot! Thanks...your best friend, Gene -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bradford [mailto:mrbill at mrbill.net] Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 7:16 AM To: Gene Stokes Subject: Re: Solaris OS Rude fucking comments? You're the one calling people names and cursing when I told you to do your own research. Tip: If you expect to get help from someone, you shouldnt call them names, or send them questions lifted directly out of a test or homework. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - So, i forwarded all of the emails to the president of the company. Lesson 1: if you're going to cuss out someone for no reason, dont do it from your corporate email account. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 09:36:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 10:36:38 -0400 Subject: [geeks] testing References: <20010920092905.H19415@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3BA9FEF6.1CF97647@avoidant.org> Bill Bradford wrote: > > testing passed. ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 09:40:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 09:40:53 -0500 Subject: [geeks] testing In-Reply-To: <3BA9FEF6.1CF97647@avoidant.org> References: <20010920092905.H19415@mrbill.net> <3BA9FEF6.1CF97647@avoidant.org> Message-ID: <20010920094053.K19415@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 10:36:38AM -0400, s at avoidant.org wrote: > Bill Bradford wrote: > > testing > passed. Hrm, weird problems with mailman. I keep having to wipe the queue directory when it gets close to ~300 unsent messages (bounces, etc). Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 09:47:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Edward Chase) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 10:47:43 -0400 Subject: [geeks] testing In-Reply-To: <20010920092905.H19415@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010920104642.0405f498@postoffice.providence.edu> Problems w/ list? or just not used to low volume? I've only been on it for a week so I'm not used to what normal volume would be... At 09:29 AM 9/20/2001 -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: >testing --------------------------------------------------------------- Edward F. Chase III | echase at providence.edu Providence College | http://www.providence.edu Computer Services | http://studentweb.providence.edu Providence, RI 02918 | From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 10:38:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 10:38:20 -0500 Subject: [geeks] testing In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010920104642.0405f498@postoffice.providence.edu> References: <20010920092905.H19415@mrbill.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010920104642.0405f498@postoffice.providence.edu> Message-ID: <20010920103820.N19415@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 10:47:43AM -0400, Edward Chase wrote: > Problems w/ list? or just not used to low volume? Nah, volume is normal - I just had problems with the listserver software this mroning and geeks doesent have a high subscriber-list - so I can use it for testing to see if something goes out. I should just get off my ass and make a "testing" list with me as the only subscriber. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 11:00:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 11:00:08 -0500 Subject: [geeks] [vance@ikickass.org: Mainframe stuff...] Message-ID: <20010920110008.R19415@mrbill.net> FYI.... ----- Forwarded message from Absurdly Obtuse ----- Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:13:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Absurdly Obtuse To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org Subject: Mainframe stuff... Reply-To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org To all those that wanted to see the pictures of Brian Hechinger and I unloading a truckload of IBM S/390 and DEC VAX equipment (you know who you are), the pictures are up on http://www.users.cloud9.net/~sridhar/mainframe/ Peace... Sridhar ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 14:10:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 20 Sep 2001 12:10:27 -0700 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day In-Reply-To: <20010920093558.J19415@mrbill.net> References: <20010920093558.J19415@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <86elp1d6fw.fsf@koyote.cx> Wow. You almost want to poke him and see what he'd say next. For fun. That's bad, isn't it? -Christof From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 14:41:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 14:41:34 -0500 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day In-Reply-To: <86elp1d6fw.fsf@koyote.cx> References: <20010920093558.J19415@mrbill.net> <86elp1d6fw.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <20010920144134.B14220@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 12:10:27PM -0700, koyote at koyote.cx wrote: > Wow. > You almost want to poke him and see what he'd say next. For fun. > That's bad, isn't it? > -Christof Nah, I'm just waiting to see if his boss replies. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 14:51:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 15:51:44 -0400 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day References: <20010920093558.J19415@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <07b301c1420d$b02928a0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > Lesson 1: if you're going to cuss out someone for no reason, dont > do it from your corporate email account. 8-) > I *love* it! Lay out some Smack-Down, Bill. This guy obviously has no idea how to interact with other human beings... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 15:22:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 15:22:36 -0500 Subject: [geeks] MySQL question Message-ID: <20010920152236.E14220@mrbill.net> Anybody know how to reset the root user's password in MySQL? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 15:24:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 15:24:09 -0500 Subject: [geeks] nevermind Message-ID: <20010920152409.F14220@mrbill.net> Nevermind. When trying to use the password for user "root", be sure you're trying to *connect* as user "root". doh! Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 23:28:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:28:42 US/Eastern Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day Message-ID: <200109210328.XAA09670@postoffice.providence.edu> Yup, people can be pretty stupid some times!!! I've got a mailing list here on campus that it supposed to be used for peer to peer support on an outdated software package used on campus. It is a very low volume list, I use it once in a blue moon when some prof. calls me up asking me how to do this, that, or the other thing in this software. Every time I write to the list, I have to explain to the profs. that they are on the list because they have signed up for accounts on this software package and that the list is the only support that exists for the software. I also have to remind them that any replys go to the list and not just back to the sender. If I don't go though this big dissertaion, it gets real funny. > On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 10:27:26PM -0400, dave at cca.org wrote: > > I get hate mail all the time from people that think www.flat-earth.org > > is serious, and it's their duty to educate us... > > Some of it's pretty damn funny. --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 23:45:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:45:49 US/Eastern Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day Message-ID: <200109210345.XAA11443@postoffice.providence.edu> hahahahhaahha You nailed it!!! The school is a much saner place to work during the summer when there are no profs and students. > On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 11:28:42PM +0000, echase at postoffice.providence.edu wrote: > > Every time I write to the list, I have to explain to the > > profs. that they are on the list because they have signed > > up for accounts on this software package and that the list > > is the only support that exists for the software. I also > > have to remind them that any replys go to the list and not > > just back to the sender. > > WHY AM I GETTING THESE EMAILS > TKAE ME OFF THIS LIST > PLEASE STOP IMMEDIATELY > I AM A *PROFESSOR*, YOU WILL LSITEN TO ME > > etc. I spent way too much time in tech support. One of the > best times I ever had, was when I actually got to say: > > "Yes, sir, you may be a {doctor|lawyer|etc}, but right now, > you have a computer problem, and I'm the person who is trying > to help you fix it despite your attitude. You wouldn't try > to tell your mechanic how to fix your car, or wouldnt like it > if someone told you how to {perform surgery|do a court case}, > would you? Thank you. Now, follow my instructions.." > > Someone told me once that I got this "tech support voice" when > doing phones that had this "dont fuck with me, I know what I'm > talking about" tone to it. > > Now, I'm just bitter and burnt. Ex-tech-support-peons make the > best system admins. > > Bill (at this week's UNIX admin all-hands meeting, all six of us, > we all agreed that life would be better if it werent for > those darned users!) 8-) > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 21:27:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:27:26 EDT Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day References: <86elp1d6fw.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <01374222726.dave.13030@cca.org> koyote at koyote.cx writes: >Wow. >You almost want to poke him and see what he'd say next. For fun. >That's bad, isn't it? I get hate mail all the time from people that think www.flat-earth.org is serious, and it's their duty to educate us... Some of it's pretty damn funny. (Even though I only maintain one section of that site, I'm the only person brave/stupid enough to have a mailto tag there, so I get *all* the mail.) -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- --------- "I prefer the ridiculous to the sublime." - James Chance --------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 21:51:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 21:51:01 -0500 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day In-Reply-To: <01374222726.dave.13030@cca.org> References: <86elp1d6fw.fsf@koyote.cx> <01374222726.dave.13030@cca.org> Message-ID: <20010920215101.V14220@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 10:27:26PM -0400, dave at cca.org wrote: > I get hate mail all the time from people that think www.flat-earth.org > is serious, and it's their duty to educate us... > Some of it's pretty damn funny. POST IT! 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 22:22:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 20:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day In-Reply-To: <20010920093558.J19415@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > www.sun.com/solaris > > Please do your own homework. I read the whole thing, and he is an idiot. (Good trick forwarding it to the CEO.) However, may I suggest a lighter tone next time, something like: "The best place to look would be http://www.sun.com/solaris" I get many basenji-related inquiries every week, and some of them scare the living shit out of me. ("Where can I buy a pair, i want to try my hand at breeding dogs." & such) I always try to keep my responses friendly, that way perhaps I can turn them to a better direction instead of making them mad at me and going ahead anyway. For example, my initial response to the above would be: "You fucking moron! Dickweed idiots like you are the reason that there are so many dogs and cats being needlessly put to death each year. If you had more brains than the pus dripping off of an infected goat's penis, you would leave it to people with a full set of firing neurons and a sense of responsibility. Your attitude makes me want to coat my screen with a spray of lung butter." What I write is: "If you've never bred dogs before, especially basenjis, you may want to talk to an established breeder. They can offer you some good advice. If you like, I can give you the name of a breeder in the area." And so it goes... -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 22:29:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:29:02 -0500 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day In-Reply-To: References: <20010920093558.J19415@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010920222902.Z14220@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 08:22:34PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > I read the whole thing, and he is an idiot. (Good trick forwarding it to > the CEO.) > However, may I suggest a lighter tone next time, something like: > "The best place to look would be http://www.sun.com/solaris" For people who honestly want to know, i explain it kindly. I have no patience for people who refuse to do their own homework for stuff like this (obviously CS classes, etc - its obvious from the questions they ask). I *dont* want any more "book certified admins" out there than absolutely necessary - e.g., like the "paper MCSEs"... > I get many basenji-related inquiries every week, and some of them scare > the living shit out of me. ("Where can I buy a pair, i want to try my > hand at breeding dogs." & such) I should post some of the better stupid questions I get, after removing the guilty party's names. Some of them make me fear for mankind. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 22:32:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:32:22 -0500 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day In-Reply-To: <200109210328.XAA09670@postoffice.providence.edu> References: <200109210328.XAA09670@postoffice.providence.edu> Message-ID: <20010920223222.A14220@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 11:28:42PM +0000, echase at postoffice.providence.edu wrote: > Every time I write to the list, I have to explain to the > profs. that they are on the list because they have signed > up for accounts on this software package and that the list > is the only support that exists for the software. I also > have to remind them that any replys go to the list and not > just back to the sender. WHY AM I GETTING THESE EMAILS TKAE ME OFF THIS LIST PLEASE STOP IMMEDIATELY I AM A *PROFESSOR*, YOU WILL LSITEN TO ME etc. I spent way too much time in tech support. One of the best times I ever had, was when I actually got to say: "Yes, sir, you may be a {doctor|lawyer|etc}, but right now, you have a computer problem, and I'm the person who is trying to help you fix it despite your attitude. You wouldn't try to tell your mechanic how to fix your car, or wouldnt like it if someone told you how to {perform surgery|do a court case}, would you? Thank you. Now, follow my instructions.." Someone told me once that I got this "tech support voice" when doing phones that had this "dont fuck with me, I know what I'm talking about" tone to it. Now, I'm just bitter and burnt. Ex-tech-support-peons make the best system admins. Bill (at this week's UNIX admin all-hands meeting, all six of us, we all agreed that life would be better if it werent for those darned users!) 8-) -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 22:38:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:38:45 -0400 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day In-Reply-To: References: <20010920223222.A14220@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010920233845.A31008@cs.millersville.edu> On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 11:45:18PM -0400, Rob wrote: > This job would be great if it wasn't for the *&*(ing customers... > - Clerks Right when that message came, that line had just been spoken on the notebook next to me playing Clerks. > All jobs have shitty bits. No question. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 22:38:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:38:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: Woah (WTC) References: <01366205914.dave.14546@cca.org> Message-ID: <007201c1424e$eff41e40$0100a8c0@MPILUSO2> Please tell me you're not an american! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 8:59 PM Subject: [geeks] Re: Woah (WTC) > kris at catonic.net writes: > > >I have had a little quote running halfway through my head and searched it > >out recently. Go find Def Leppard's "Gods Of War" -- in the last few > >seconds of the track, you hear a (Ronald) Reagan quote: > > Even if I knew for a fact that it would prevent the senseless death > of innocent American civilians, I would not listen to Def Leppard. > > -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- > --------- "I prefer the ridiculous to the sublime." - James Chance --------- > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 22:45:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Rob) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day In-Reply-To: <20010920223222.A14220@mrbill.net> Message-ID: This job would be great if it wasn't for the *&*(ing customers... - Clerks All jobs have shitty bits. No question. - Rob > Now, I'm just bitter and burnt. Ex-tech-support-peons make the > best system admins. > > Bill (at this week's UNIX admin all-hands meeting, all six of us, > we all agreed that life would be better if it werent for > those darned users!) 8-) > From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 20 22:54:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 20:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day In-Reply-To: <20010920223222.A14220@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > "Yes, sir, you may be a {doctor|lawyer|etc}, but right now, > you have a computer problem, and I'm the person who is trying > to help you fix it despite your attitude. You wouldn't try [...] Two true stories about NCGR CEO's. (For those who don't know my history, I was head of systems at the National Center for Pretentious Name...er.. Genome Resources before coming to Sun.) First story: Because I am AT&T (Lucent) Certified on phone switches and voice mail, I took on the responsibility of our new Lucent Definity phone system. During that time that NCGR and its for-profit spin-off were still run by the same CEO, so I reported to him for both companies. One week, while he took off for one of his *many* vacations in Nantucket, our long-distance went out. I spent 4 days on the phone, working with MCI and US/Worst to try and resolve the problem. On day 5 (Friday), "Dr. Ed" returns, and calls me to chew me out: "Do you have any idea how much of a problem this is? Don't you know that a business runs on its phones? Get off your ass and fix it NOW!" That was the last straw in a very bad week. With my horrified co-worker Forrest listining in behind me, I replied: "Ed, cut the pissed-off CEO bullshit, it won't work on me." "Do you realize who you are talking to?" "Yes, I do. You're calling me and bitching me out when I'm doing my best to fix the problem. Instead of pitching a fit, why don't you ask what you can do to help?" But, he was much nicer to me after that. 2nd story: The last CEO I had (6 in 4 years before I left) was an older MD type, who was once commissioner of health in NYC, as well as a former Surgeon General for the US Army. One day, he stopped me and asked the dreaded question: "I have this problem with my PC at home..." To which I replied: "Steve, you're a doctor. Don't you hate it at parties when somebody comes up to you and describes a pain and asks for a diagnosis?" He got the point. (Smart man.) -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 21 02:26:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:26:56 +0100 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day References: <200109210328.XAA09670@postoffice.providence.edu> <20010920223222.A14220@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <005e01c1426e$cbce1140$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> From: "Bill Bradford" > etc. I spent way too much time in tech support. One of the > best times I ever had, was when I actually got to say: > > "Yes, sir, you may be a {doctor|lawyer|etc}, but right now, > you have a computer problem, and I'm the person who is trying > to help you fix it despite your attitude. You wouldn't try > to tell your mechanic how to fix your car, or wouldnt like it > if someone told you how to {perform surgery|do a court case}, > would you? Thank you. Now, follow my instructions.." Hehe, BTDT. I used to actually quite enjoy the aggro customers but sometimes they get so out of hand it's just not funny anymore. We had one bloke who would just consistently phone us to complain about services (or the proceedures for dealing with problems with the services) without even giving us a chance to help, *really* obnoxious. Eventually we were told not to deal with him at all, just hang-up. When *his* management found out he'd been doing this I think they fired him in the end. I actually heard one of the non-techie helpdesk people the other day tell a guy to "calm down before you give yourself a heart attack." Which brought a smile to my face. :) > Someone told me once that I got this "tech support voice" when > doing phones that had this "dont fuck with me, I know what I'm > talking about" tone to it. I think this is something you need to develop if you're going to survive doing support. From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 21 06:38:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 06:38:27 -0500 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day In-Reply-To: <005e01c1426e$cbce1140$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> References: <200109210328.XAA09670@postoffice.providence.edu> <20010920223222.A14220@mrbill.net> <005e01c1426e$cbce1140$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> Message-ID: <20010921063827.Q14220@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 21, 2001 at 08:26:56AM +0100, Will Mc Donald wrote: > We had one bloke who would just consistently phone us to complain about > services (or the proceedures for dealing with problems with the services) > without even giving us a chance to help, *really* obnoxious. Eventually we > were told not to deal with him at all, just hang-up. When *his* management > found out he'd been doing this I think they fired him in the end. One of the best things I saw happen at the last place I did tech support: One year, for Christmas, the president/CEO went to the tech support department. Told them, "If you had the ability to get rid of ONE customer, the most annoying person that calls all the time, who would it be?" They named a guy, unanimously. The boss picked up the phone, called the guy at work, and told him that he was NO LONGER ALLOWED to call tech support at this ISP. He could either get a refund of his fees paid and go to another ISP, or he could give up his tech support priviledges altogether - due to having called every day for the past 2 weeks or so, with stupid questions and problems (when we knew this guy had clue). I dont think I've ever seen a group of geeks so happy. 8-) Boss did this for every major city that we had a separate tech support department for. (I was the in system administration by this time) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 21 07:40:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (John Duksta) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:40:42 -0400 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day In-Reply-To: <005e01c1426e$cbce1140$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> References: <200109210328.XAA09670@postoffice.providence.edu> <20010920223222.A14220@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010921081749.00aecd80@bur-po1.genuity.com> At 08:26 AM 9/21/2001 +0100, Will Mc Donald wrote: >We had one bloke who would just consistently phone us to complain about >services (or the proceedures for dealing with problems with the services) >without even giving us a chance to help, *really* obnoxious. Back when I was doing phone support for DCA's Remote LAN Node product (PPP-based remote access server, but using a proprietary bridging control protocol) in '94, I had a customer from a large Ross Perot owned consulting firm. I was helping him get DHCP working over RLN. RLN was in essense a dialup bridge, you would get assigned a real MAC address and everything. In order to get DHCP working, we had to develop an appropriate bridge filter to let the broadcast DHCP responses back through to the client. Anyway, after I got done telling him how to get the bridge filter setup on RLN, he starts asking me to tell him how to setup a DHCP server on NT. I calmly tell him "Sorry, but I can't do that. I support RLN, not NT. If you're having trouble getting your DHCP server setup, you'll have to contact Microsoft." He starts getting all irate on me, saying that he's evaluating the product for a potentially large account and that if I don't help him with this, he'll recommend another product. I transferred him over to my manager, who told him the same thing I did. > > Someone told me once that I got this "tech support voice" when > > doing phones that had this "dont fuck with me, I know what I'm > > talking about" tone to it. Ahhh, the tech support voice. It is that it becomes second nature to slip into that tone of voice when dealing with (l)users. Gets me in trouble when I'm helping Andrea with something on her machine. She says it makes her feel like I'm being condescending. I tell her I can't help it, it's a programmed scenario response. I think/hope she understands now. -john From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 21 08:26:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (John) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 09:26:53 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Re: (geeks) funny way to start the day Message-ID: <000d01c142a1$19b450e0$1100a8c0@techworld> I have done support at several places and several levels. It never fails. There is always a screamer. At a trading floor that I supported, it was a guy I will call Bob. He called me at 6:00am one morning screaming obscenities. He said in colorful language I will not share that I was to come fix his machine as soon as possible. I managed to extract from his tirade that his sound was not working. When I arrived, I calmly looked at his system as he was yelling at three other people about a trade with Frankfurt. I then called him over to his machine and told him "Bob, see this light on the speaker that is dark? If you press this button labeled 'Power', the light will light up and the sound will work." At that point, he confessed to being stupid and from then on, I was the only support person he never yelled at. I call this my "Kindergarten Teacher" aproach. It works on almost all but the worst of the cranial-anal impacted. All you have to do is remain calm, smile, speak in a soft, friendly voice, and demonstrate to them that they are stupid without insulting them. Many will then insult themselves for your entertainment or elevate you to godhood. Some will do both. For some who don't respond to this tactic, simple information overload will sufice. You start slowly telling them more than they ask when they ask questions untill they start that knowing nod that really means they are hoplessly lost in technobabble. You then can tell them anything that you want them to remember and it will be treated as god's own truth. If you increase the information enough, the eyes will glaze over and they will just stay placidly in place untill you finish whatever upsetting process you desire to inflict on their machine. I like to call this "Verbal Anesthetic". It is not a universal cure, but it can help one keep the remainder of one's sanity... John at tequies.com >From: "Bill Bradford" >> etc. I spent way too much time in tech support. One of the >> best times I ever had, was when I actually got to say: > >> "Yes, sir, you may be a {doctor|lawyer|etc}, but right now, >> you have a computer problem, and I'm the person who is trying >> to help you fix it despite your attitude. You wouldn't try >> to tell your mechanic how to fix your car, or wouldnt like it >> if someone told you how to {perform surgery|do a court case}, >> would you? Thank you. Now, follow my instructions.." >Hehe, BTDT. I used to actually quite enjoy the aggro customers but sometimes >they get so out of hand it's just not funny anymore. >We had one bloke who would just consistently phone us to complain about >services (or the proceedures for dealing with problems with the services) >without even giving us a chance to help, *really* obnoxious. Eventually we >were told not to deal with him at all, just hang-up. When *his* management >found out he'd been doing this I think they fired him in the end. >I actually heard one of the non-techie helpdesk people the other day tell a >guy to "calm down before you give yourself a heart attack." Which brought a >smile to my face. :) >> Someone told me once that I got this "tech support voice" when >> doing phones that had this "dont fuck with me, I know what I'm >> talking about" tone to it. >I think this is something you need to develop if you're going to survive >doing support. >--__--__-- From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 21 09:50:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 09:50:48 -0500 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010921081749.00aecd80@bur-po1.genuity.com> References: <200109210328.XAA09670@postoffice.providence.edu> <20010920223222.A14220@mrbill.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20010921081749.00aecd80@bur-po1.genuity.com> Message-ID: <20010921095048.T14220@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 21, 2001 at 08:40:42AM -0400, John Duksta wrote: > Anyway, after I got done telling him how to get the bridge > filter setup on RLN, he starts asking me to tell him how > to setup a DHCP server on NT. I calmly tell him "Sorry, > but I can't do that. I support RLN, not NT. If you're > having trouble getting your DHCP server setup, you'll > have to contact Microsoft." He starts getting all irate > on me, saying that he's evaluating the product for a > potentially large account and that if I don't help him > with this, he'll recommend another product. I transferred > him over to my manager, who told him the same thing I did. Reminds me of the customer who wanted to get 128K ISDN connections at all of his locations, to do filesharing via Windows Networking over. I warned him it would be slow. He did it anyway. He complained that it was slow, and that we had something "configured wrong". I explained that these were NOT t1 connections, and that Windows Networking was not designed to be used over 128Kbit connections. I finally got on a 3-way conference call with this guy, myself, a guy from Microsoft, and a guy from Ascend (he was using Pipeline 50s and 75s). THEY explained that this was not a "recommended configuration". I emailed this guy (and his boss) a multiple-page email explaining exactly why this was slow, etc. Worst thing was, this guy was a *consultant*, and was telling the customer that the slowness was *our* (the ISPs) fault. We quickly got on the horn with the customer and told them everything that had gone on. He (consultant) still complained. He ended up switching to another ISP, who told him the very same thing. Oh well, win some, lose some. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 21 09:56:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (John Duksta) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:56:27 -0400 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day In-Reply-To: <20010921094609.Y16631@zilla.nu> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010921081749.00aecd80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <200109210328.XAA09670@postoffice.providence.edu> <20010920223222.A14220@mrbill.net> <005e01c1426e$cbce1140$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> <5.0.2.1.0.20010921081749.00aecd80@bur-po1.genuity.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010921105455.031dad20@bur-po1.genuity.com> At 09:46 AM 9/21/2001 -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > > Back when I was doing phone support for DCA's Remote LAN Node > > product (PPP-based remote access server, but using a proprietary > > bridging control protocol) in '94, I had a customer from a > > large Ross Perot owned consulting firm. I was helping him > >I assume you mean Perot Systems and not EDS? I meant EDS... am I confusing corporate lineage again? -john From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 21 10:04:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:04:59 +0100 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day References: <200109210328.XAA09670@postoffice.providence.edu> <20010920223222.A14220@mrbill.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20010921081749.00aecd80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <20010921095048.T14220@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <020f01c142ae$cff70660$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> From: "Bill Bradford" > I emailed this guy (and his boss) a multiple-page email explaining exactly > why this was slow, etc. Worst thing was, this guy was a *consultant*, and > was telling the customer that the slowness was *our* (the ISPs) fault. We > quickly got on the horn with the customer and told them everything that had > gone on. I love doing those long, multi-page email expositions. :) I don't consider myself particularly knowledgeable or skilled at what I do but I like to think I make an effort to find answers myself before calling in product support or you guys. :) Still, it pisses me off the amount of time I spend writing these emails to explain to customer's tech support departments why it's not our fault, how every other user can do whatever-it-is, thus implying that it's something at *their* end, then spending days trying to give them some hint as to where to start trouble shooting. It boils down to the homework this again (which is where this started I believe). If people are paid to provide support for a company and I end up telling them how to perform basic internet problem troubleshooting it's pretty galling. Will. From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 21 10:25:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 11:25:00 -0400 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day References: <200109210328.XAA09670@postoffice.providence.edu> <20010920223222.A14220@mrbill.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20010921081749.00aecd80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <20010921095048.T14220@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <001b01c142b1$94d64700$0301a8c0@kensportege> When I worked for a large mainframe software house I supported an application development product called UFO (User Files Online), which had it's own trivial database called IOX. IOX was a kludge (at best), but it was fine for storing the code users generated. We *explicitly* told our userd not to use IOX for production data, as if it became corrupted (which it did, often), the only recourse was to recover from a recent backup. This warning was on the third page of the manual, a single small paragraph in the middle of an otherwise blank page. So of course, we had a client that used IOX for production data. And of course, the database got corrupted. So, when the client called us up asking us to recover the database, we pointed to the third page of the manual and said the only recourse was to recover from a recent backup. He said that was unacceptable, we had to recover the DB ASAP! I asked him how recently he had backed up his database. They stopped backing the database up *six* months ago! It seems the backups were taking too long (exceeding their batch-window each night) - IOX used its own utilities, and the only useful backup method was to use the IOX utilities, nothing else would work. I passed the call to my manager. There was nothing we could do for them, period. They were not happy... BTW - the tools were fine, for their intended use - UFO could use VSAM, DB/2, IMS, and flat files... There was no reason to use IOX unless you were using it for development/test purposes... Ken _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 21 11:07:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael A. Turner) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 12:07:00 -0400 Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day Message-ID: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA463@terra.whro.org> Here Here. Ex-Tech support myself (three years in the trenchs at ISP tech support) and I still have a mass hate for 99.9% of all mankind. Unfortunatly now that I run the servers I am starting to find I am developing a hate for the tech support personnel also.... Michael A. Turner Systems Engineer WHRO michael.turner at whro.org http://www.whro.org -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bradford [mailto:mrbill at mrbill.net] Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 11:32 PM To: geeks at sunhelp.org Subject: Re: [geeks] funny way to start the day On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 11:28:42PM +0000, echase at postoffice.providence.edu wrote: > Every time I write to the list, I have to explain to the > profs. that they are on the list because they have signed > up for accounts on this software package and that the list > is the only support that exists for the software. I also > have to remind them that any replys go to the list and not > just back to the sender. WHY AM I GETTING THESE EMAILS TKAE ME OFF THIS LIST PLEASE STOP IMMEDIATELY I AM A *PROFESSOR*, YOU WILL LSITEN TO ME etc. I spent way too much time in tech support. One of the best times I ever had, was when I actually got to say: "Yes, sir, you may be a {doctor|lawyer|etc}, but right now, you have a computer problem, and I'm the person who is trying to help you fix it despite your attitude. You wouldn't try to tell your mechanic how to fix your car, or wouldnt like it if someone told you how to {perform surgery|do a court case}, would you? Thank you. Now, follow my instructions.." Someone told me once that I got this "tech support voice" when doing phones that had this "dont fuck with me, I know what I'm talking about" tone to it. Now, I'm just bitter and burnt. Ex-tech-support-peons make the best system admins. Bill (at this week's UNIX admin all-hands meeting, all six of us, we all agreed that life would be better if it werent for those darned users!) 8-) -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX _______________________________________________ GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 21 16:27:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:27:13 -0500 Subject: [geeks] gpg experimentation In-Reply-To: <20010921161432.J9487@zilla.nu> References: <20010921161432.J9487@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010921162713.U14220@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 21, 2001 at 04:14:32PM -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > Hey folks, would any of you pgp/gpg users mind replying to this message > using pgp/gpg? I've signed it to give you my key. > I had mutt perfectly happy with pgp6, now I'm considering moving to > Reagen I've got gpg installed; how do I extract and add your key? or sign a message myself? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 21 16:39:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 17:39:52 EDT Subject: [geeks] funny way to start the day References: <20010920215101.V14220@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <01375173952.dave.12905@cca.org> mrbill at mrbill.net writes: >On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 10:27:26PM -0400, dave at cca.org wrote: >> I get hate mail all the time from people that think www.flat-earth.org >> is serious, and it's their duty to educate us... >> Some of it's pretty damn funny. >POST IT! 8-) http://www.cca.org/woc/felfat-mail/ And the pages they're reacting to are at: http://www.cca.org/woc/felfat/ -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- --------- "I prefer the ridiculous to the sublime." - James Chance --------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 21 20:50:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 01:50:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Lusers Message-ID: I just got off the phone with a user and I'm already two beers ahead of the game. Oh wait, this isn't a.s.r..... ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 21 20:54:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 01:54:34 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Lusers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Sep 2001, Kris Kirby wrote: > I just got off the phone with a user and I'm already two beers ahead of > the game. Oh wait, this isn't a.s.r..... And better still, I have to be at work tomorrow. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 22 00:10:42 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 22:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Egad, I've created a monster! Message-ID: Well, I finally gave in to excess. A ways back, I noticed our old pal Sunguk was selling sets of 4 16M 30-pin SIMMs. I looked up at my "project shelf" and a wicked grin split may face. I ordered a few sets, and when they arrived, I put my plan into action. I rooted around in the closet of mystery and dug out my patented "Maxi T-15" torx driver*. I then proceeded to rip into the guts of the designated patient. Now, I sit and stare at what I have wrought: A Mac SE/30 with 128M of RAM. Unreal. Right now I have an 80M boot disk in it, which means that it has over 1.5x RAM than disk. I remember when the SE/30 was released, and we were amazed at the thought of one with that much memory - this was at a time when a 16M Sun 3/280 was a big deal... *The Torx driver is one I modified almost 15 years ago when I was still in college. I had convinced my parents that what I really needed for Xmas was a 512K Dove memory board and a Datadesk-101 keyboard for my 512Ke. I was dismayed to find no torx drivers long enough in my dad's tools, so I went down to the local hardware store, and bought the longest T-15 driver they had. Still not long enough. Finally, I got it to work by cutting off a chunk of the handle, and trimming the remaining handle to clear the handle of the mac. For some reason, I have never rid myself of that beast... -Pete ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 22 01:09:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 01:09:47 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Egad, I've created a monster! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19083108887.20010922010947@crosswinds.net> PLW> A Mac SE/30 with 128M of RAM. Unreal. Right now I have an 80M boot disk PLW> in it, which means that it has over 1.5x RAM than disk. I remember when PLW> the SE/30 was released, and we were amazed at the thought of one with that PLW> much memory - this was at a time when a 16M Sun 3/280 was a big deal... A truly Geeky Hack and wonderful re-use of equipment! I'm thinking some sort of 'nix will be going on it? Did you know that you can get a PPC conversion for those? (Albeit very few and far-between.) A PPC B/W SE/30 w/128Meg - that's kinda like an '81 Omni with a 318, large quad-barrel, 22gal fuel tank, and the stock transmission. I like it! Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 22 02:07:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 17:07:07 +1000 (EST) Subject: [geeks] Decserver 3000 microservers Message-ID: worth putting on ebay or not? what sort of money are they worth? if any. Grant Diffey aka "nevyn" President of Computerbank Victoria Inc. http://www.computerbank.org.au/ From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 22 13:50:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg Evans) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 13:50:16 -0500 Subject: [geeks] gpg experimentation In-Reply-To: <20010921161432.J9487@zilla.nu> References: <20010921161432.J9487@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010922135016.C17726@parrotheaven.com> --Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Signed reply. --=20 /* Greg Evans, Bloomington, MN., USA - gje at parrotheaven.com */ ------------- "Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" (Dilberts Rules of Order) Reagen B. Ward [ward at zilla.nu] wrote: > Hey folks, would any of you pgp/gpg users mind replying to this message > using pgp/gpg? I've signed it to give you my key. >=20 > I had mutt perfectly happy with pgp6, now I'm considering moving to >=20 > Reagen --Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjus3WgACgkQE8+QKAmQvceOiACg4P9HHgUKHbjT6Dg9dERXPXJ/ zfAAmwcuz1Nv7BMSWIjKKhQD8VaZUHA4 =Vv+U -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v-- From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 22 15:01:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 13:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Egad, I've created a monster! In-Reply-To: <19083108887.20010922010947@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Sep 2001, Mike Hebel wrote: > I'm thinking some sort of 'nix will be going on it? Oh, perhaps Open BSD at some point. Once I stick a 2G drive into it. :-) > Did you know that you can get a PPC conversion for those? > (Albeit very few and far-between.) > A PPC B/W SE/30 w/128Meg - that's kinda like an '81 > Omni with a 318, large quad-barrel, 22gal fuel tank, and > the stock transmission. Wow! I had never heard of a PPC conversion for an SE/30. Now this is truly *kinky*. Therefore, I need to find one... -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 22 15:19:25 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 16:19:25 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Egad, I've created a monster! In-Reply-To: References: <19083108887.20010922010947@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <20010922161925.A3507@cs.millersville.edu> On Sat, Sep 22, 2001 at 01:01:01PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > Wow! I had never heard of a PPC conversion for an SE/30. Now this is > truly *kinky*. Therefore, I need to find one... I suspect that it might not be that much different from doing a PPC conversion to a Color Classic. That is scary to look at. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 22 23:22:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 00:22:57 -0400 Subject: [geeks] XP is _nice_ Message-ID: <3BAD2B61.8924.8521C9@localhost> I've finally got around to playing with WindowsXP, in German no less, and it's very, very nice. I didn't have to install a single driver other than my printer and after 10min of setting up the interface it's exactly how I want it. It's got tons of nice features and is worth upgrading from 2000 I think. With every release Windows is getting better an better. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 22 23:57:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 22 Sep 2001 21:57:00 -0700 Subject: [geeks] XP is _nice_ In-Reply-To: <3BAD2B61.8924.8521C9@localhost> References: <3BAD2B61.8924.8521C9@localhost> Message-ID: <1001221023.1473.17.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Sat, 2001-09-22 at 21:22, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > I've finally got around to playing with WindowsXP, in German no [snip] Anybody know where Mike lives? Let's go trash the place... ;-) Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 22 23:57:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 00:57:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] XP is _nice_ In-Reply-To: <1001221023.1473.17.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> References: <3BAD2B61.8924.8521C9@localhost> <1001221023.1473.17.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Message-ID: <20010923005752.C11094@cs.millersville.edu> On Sat, Sep 22, 2001 at 09:57:00PM -0700, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > On Sat, 2001-09-22 at 21:22, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > > I've finally got around to playing with WindowsXP, in German no > [snip] > > Anybody know where Mike lives? Let's go trash the place... ;-) > Greg Err, Germany? But, it seems to me that XP is well on the way to trashing the place for us. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 01:30:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 01:30:44 -0500 Subject: [geeks] XP is _nice_ In-Reply-To: <3BAD2B61.8924.8521C9@localhost> References: <3BAD2B61.8924.8521C9@localhost> Message-ID: <20010923013044.F3330@mrbill.net> On Sun, Sep 23, 2001 at 12:22:57AM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > I've finally got around to playing with WindowsXP, in German no > less, and it's very, very nice. I didn't have to install a single driver > other than my printer and after 10min of setting up the interface it's > exactly how I want it. It's got tons of nice features and is worth > upgrading from 2000 I think. With every release Windows is getting > better an better. > Mike If you turn off the 'System Recovery' or snapshot-ish feature, its MUCH faster, and when I used it, I used the "Classic" interface as well; the "day glo" interface was just ugly. I prefer my Mac with OS X now. 8-) bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 01:31:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 01:31:11 -0500 Subject: [geeks] XP is _nice_ In-Reply-To: <3BAD2B61.8924.8521C9@localhost> References: <3BAD2B61.8924.8521C9@localhost> Message-ID: <20010923013111.G3330@mrbill.net> On Sun, Sep 23, 2001 at 12:22:57AM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > With every release Windows is getting > better an better. Someone take his kool-aid away, quick! Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 02:42:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 00:42:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Egad, I've created a monster! In-Reply-To: <20010922161925.A3507@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Sep 2001, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > On Sat, Sep 22, 2001 at 01:01:01PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > > Wow! I had never heard of a PPC conversion for an SE/30. Now this is > > truly *kinky*. Therefore, I need to find one... > > I suspect that it might not be that much different from doing a PPC > conversion to a Color Classic. That is scary to look at. Actually, I would dearly love to find a 50MHz 030 card for the SE/30... That would make it a monster... -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 13:28:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:28:00 -0400 Subject: [geeks] XP is _nice_ In-Reply-To: <20010923170228.5BD5811B66@ohno.mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3BADF170.7928.38ACC90@localhost> On 23 Sep 2001, at 12:02, geeks-request at sunhelp.org wrote: > > I've finally got around to playing with WindowsXP, in German no > > less, and it's very, very nice. I didn't have to install a single > > driver other than my printer and after 10min of setting up the > > interface it's exactly how I want it. It's got tons of nice features > > and is worth upgrading from 2000 I think. With every release Windows > > is getting better an better. Mike > > If you turn off the 'System Recovery' or snapshot-ish feature, its > MUCH faster, and when I used it, I used the "Classic" interface as > well; the "day glo" interface was just ugly. Hrm, time to find out what that is in German. I kinda like the new interface, it's a nice change from what I've looked at all these years. And I'm loath to randomly change things for fear of totally screwing up the system. > I prefer my Mac with OS X now. 8-) Pah, I'd like to try it but it's far too much ca$h. And AFAIK it doesn't do Windows network file sharing which is essential to the way I work. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 13:45:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] XP is _nice_ In-Reply-To: <3BADF170.7928.38ACC90@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Sep 2001, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > > I prefer my Mac with OS X now. 8-) > > Pah, I'd like to try it but it's far too much ca$h. And AFAIK it > doesn't do Windows network file sharing which is essential to the > way I work. Get ready - In addition to the NFS and Appleshare in the current version, SMB and others are added in 10.1 - see: http://www.apple.com/macosx/ -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 13:56:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] My love/hate with Mickeysoft... Message-ID: I seem to be running hot/cold with Microsoft again. One one hand, they have produced some of my favorite Mac software, like Word and IE. (Word was a Mac product first, as was Excell. Powerpoint was also Mac first, but was a product of another company...) Let's face it, IE is awesome on a Mac. I don't use Word anymore, but that is due more to the usefulness and low price of Appleworks than the quality of software. However... They are pulling Java support from IE. They have their own answers to questions that have already been asked, like Windows Media player, Active X, and their answer to the univeral VST plug-ins for sequencing. Why?? Why in the hell to they come out with another format, when we have Quicktime, MP3's, and the like already? It just adds another layer of confusion. Plus, windows still sucks. -Pete ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 14:00:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:00:54 -0500 Subject: [geeks] XP is _nice_ In-Reply-To: <3BADF170.7928.38ACC90@localhost> References: <20010923170228.5BD5811B66@ohno.mrbill.net> <3BADF170.7928.38ACC90@localhost> Message-ID: <20010923140054.K3330@mrbill.net> On Sun, Sep 23, 2001 at 02:28:00PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > > I prefer my Mac with OS X now. 8-) > Pah, I'd like to try it but it's far too much ca$h. And AFAIK it > doesn't do Windows network file sharing which is essential to the > way I work. > Mike It doesent? Ever heard of Samba? (OS X is *UNIX* on the backend...) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 16:25:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] My love/hate with Mickeysoft... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010923212545.8AAD7EC@proven.weird.com> [ On Sunday, September 23, 2001 at 11:56:36 (-0700), Peter L. Wargo wrote: ] > Subject: [geeks] My love/hate with Mickeysoft... > > I seem to be running hot/cold with Microsoft again. One one hand, they > have produced some of my favorite Mac software, like Word and IE. (Word > was a Mac product first, as was Excell. Powerpoint was also Mac first, > but was a product of another company...) Just because M$ wrote some software that Apple was able to continue to keep working nicely on the Mac doesn't mean you should use it. IMNSHO IE generally sucks, even on the Mac. But then most browsers suck. The only thing good about IE was that Apple were able to port it to Aqua under OS X without M$'s help and supposedly without too much trouble. > They are pulling Java support from IE. They have their own answers to > questions that have already been asked, like Windows Media player, Active > X, and their answer to the univeral VST plug-ins for sequencing. > > Why?? Why in the hell to they come out with another format, when we have > Quicktime, MP3's, and the like already? It just adds another layer of > confusion. Because they must have proprietary control in order to continue to increase their market share. DO NOT USE M$ SOFTWARE! You have fallen into their trap. "All your $$$ are belong to M$!" MacOS (pre-X) sucks, but at least people have good reasons for using it. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 16:52:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] My love/hate with Mickeysoft... In-Reply-To: <20010923212545.8AAD7EC@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Sep 2001, Greg A. Woods wrote: > DO NOT USE M$ SOFTWARE! You have fallen into their trap. "All your $$$ > are belong to M$!" Oddly enough, the only software of theirs that I am using is free. -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 17:40:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:40:53 -0500 Subject: [geeks] My love/hate with Mickeysoft... In-Reply-To: References: <20010923212545.8AAD7EC@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010923174053.W3330@mrbill.net> On Sun, Sep 23, 2001 at 02:52:00PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > Oddly enough, the only software of theirs that I am using is free. Microsoft makes free software? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 18:03:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 19:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] My love/hate with Mickeysoft... In-Reply-To: <20010923174053.W3330@mrbill.net> Message-ID: > On Sun, Sep 23, 2001 at 02:52:00PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > > Oddly enough, the only software of theirs that I am using is free. > > Microsoft makes free software? I've never paid for a copy of any of the Mickeysoft products I've used... From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 18:05:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 19:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] My love/hate with Mickeysoft... In-Reply-To: References: <20010923212545.8AAD7EC@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010923230518.40F66EB@proven.weird.com> [ On Sunday, September 23, 2001 at 14:52:00 (-0700), Peter L. Wargo wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] My love/hate with Mickeysoft... > > On Sun, 23 Sep 2001, Greg A. Woods wrote: > > > DO NOT USE M$ SOFTWARE! You have fallen into their trap. "All your $$$ > > are belong to M$!" > > Oddly enough, the only software of theirs that I am using is free. That's what you think, and what they want you to think. Meanwhile some of the money you (likely) paid to Apple for the Mac and MacOS went directly to M$ for licensing, and some of it also went into promoting M$ software (by Apple). It's just the same with PCs -- the M$ software the "comes for free" on your new PC is anything but. M$ force PC makers to pay blanket royalties and then force them to include their software on every machine. It's only very recently since the court cases got more intense that venders were allowed (and forced by the courts) to give you your money back, iff you ask, and sign an agreement you won't use the software. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 18:13:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 19:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] My love/hate with Mickeysoft... In-Reply-To: <20010923175529.F2839@zilla.nu> References: <20010923212545.8AAD7EC@proven.weird.com> <20010923175529.F2839@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010923231312.C01FFEB@proven.weird.com> [ On Sunday, September 23, 2001 at 17:55:29 (-0500), Reagen B. Ward wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] My love/hate with Mickeysoft... > > Strange that it's so unstable under OS X. As far as I know they're still supplying their own port and M$ themselves haven't yet released their own native MacOS X port. > MSIE for Mac isn't bad at > all, and is one of the more standards-compliant browsers. Unless M$ Internet Exploder is an entirely different code-base on Windoze than on Mac, that simply can't be true. They're guilty of making as many or more extensions to HTML as anyone else is. > And if your > criteria for measuring quality are stability, size, speed, useability, > and standards compliance, MSIE for Mac is a damn fine browser. Netscape > is piss-poor on all of the above criteria. I don't really like Netscrape either -- it was just the best full-featured browser with a half-decent modern HTML parser that ran on the Unix/X11 platforms I have available to use (I continued to use Mosaic for a lot longer than many people did! ;-). I now run Mozilla, even though it's incomplete and still almost as buggy as Netscrape-4. I understand there are MUCH better browsers for MacOS < X though..... -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 18:49:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] My love/hate with Mickeysoft... In-Reply-To: <20010923174053.W3330@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Sun, Sep 23, 2001 at 02:52:00PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > > Oddly enough, the only software of theirs that I am using is free. > > Microsoft makes free software? IE for mac is free. Way more stable than nutscrape. -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 19:50:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Matthew Poertner) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:50:02 -0700 Subject: [geeks] My love/hate with Mickeysoft... References: Message-ID: <3BAE833A.5040600@mrplaid.com> That will all change with XP. You have to register it online when you set it up. -Matt James Sharp wrote: >>On Sun, Sep 23, 2001 at 02:52:00PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: >> >>>Oddly enough, the only software of theirs that I am using is free. >>> >>Microsoft makes free software? >> > > I've never paid for a copy of any of the Mickeysoft products I've used... > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 20:03:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Matthew Poertner) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:03:02 -0700 Subject: [geeks] *ping* References: Message-ID: <3BAE8646.4000500@mrplaid.com> Rob wrote: > Anyone know how to fix a palm III screen. All the operations, > sync, buttons, stylus sensing works but the screen is very dim and has > vertical bands of non lit pixels. I think mine's heading for the > graveyard after many years of service. It's a Palm IIIx. > > Any suggestions for a Palm compatible replacement? > > R.I.P. old friend. > > - Rob > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > I love my Handspring Platinum. I just wish someone would come out with an ethernet module. From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 21:50:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 21:50:59 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Need Maildir-capable pop3 Message-ID: <20010923215059.B17330@mrbill.net> Anybody know of a good, current Maildir-compatible pop3 daemon? I'm trying to update a system I setup a couple of years ago that is still running the then-current ipop3d, but I cant find it anywhere now - and the pop3 daemon from the current Qmail doesent work. (this box is a virus-scanning mail server, running Postfix with Maildir enabled, and a POP3 daemon... users *only* get their mail from this box via pop3..) BIll -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 21:58:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 22:58:34 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Need Maildir-capable pop3 In-Reply-To: <20010923215059.B17330@mrbill.net> References: <20010923215059.B17330@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <01092322585701.07824@two-time.twmaster.com> On Sun, 23 Sep 2001, you wrote: > Anybody know of a good, current Maildir-compatible pop3 daemon? > I'm trying to update a system I setup a couple of years ago that > is still running the then-current ipop3d, but I cant find it anywhere > now - and the pop3 daemon from the current Qmail doesent work. > > (this box is a virus-scanning mail server, running Postfix with > Maildir enabled, and a POP3 daemon... users *only* get their mail > from this box via pop3..) > I have been very fond of Qpopper. Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 22:13:21 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 23:13:21 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Need Maildir-capable pop3 References: <20010923215059.B17330@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3BAEA4D1.48F9ABA6@avoidant.org> Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know of a good, current Maildir-compatible pop3 daemon? http://nupop.sourceforge.net/ ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 22:54:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 22:54:47 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Need Maildir-capable pop3 In-Reply-To: <3BAEA4D1.48F9ABA6@avoidant.org> References: <20010923215059.B17330@mrbill.net> <3BAEA4D1.48F9ABA6@avoidant.org> Message-ID: <20010923225447.F17330@mrbill.net> On Sun, Sep 23, 2001 at 11:13:21PM -0400, s at avoidant.org wrote: > http://nupop.sourceforge.net/ Already tried that, it keeps telling me I have a bad password. (this is a redhat 6.x box) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 23 22:57:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Matthew Poertner) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 20:57:13 -0700 Subject: [geeks] *ping* References: Message-ID: <3BAEAF19.8010205@mrplaid.com> James Sharp wrote: >>I love my Handspring Platinum. I just wish someone would come out with >>an ethernet module. >> >> > > will the new xircom wireless ethernet springboard module not work? I've > been waiting for them to come out and from what I've seen, they're finally > out. > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > Yeah.. There are wireless modules, but I was waiting for the wired module. Xircom was going to come out with one but then they canceled it. -Matt From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 00:18:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Phil Brutsche) Date: 24 Sep 2001 00:18:15 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Need Maildir-capable pop3 In-Reply-To: <20010923215059.B17330@mrbill.net> References: <20010923215059.B17330@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <1001308695.600.11.camel@fury> On Sun, 2001-09-23 at 21:50, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know of a good, current Maildir-compatible pop3 daemon? Courier POP3, part of the Courier mail system. http://www.courier-mta.org Unfortunately you've got to install all of the Courier mail system just to get the pop3 daemon :( Although if you build the RPMs from source it looks like you can get away with just installing Courier POP3. > I'm trying to update a system I setup a couple of years ago that > is still running the then-current ipop3d, but I cant find it anywhere > now - and the pop3 daemon from the current Qmail doesent work. In a way that doesn't surprise me. I bet if you had qmail on the thing qmail's pop3d would work just peachy. -- Phil From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 00:32:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 00:32:11 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Need Maildir-capable pop3 In-Reply-To: <1001308695.600.11.camel@fury> References: <20010923215059.B17330@mrbill.net> <1001308695.600.11.camel@fury> Message-ID: <20010924003211.J17330@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 12:18:15AM -0500, Phil Brutsche wrote: > Courier POP3, part of the Courier mail system. > http://www.courier-mta.org > Unfortunately you've got to install all of the Courier mail system just > to get the pop3 daemon :( Although if you build the RPMs from source it > looks like you can get away with just installing Courier POP3. RPMs? Who uses RPMs? I compile from scratch, even on RedHat. thanks for the pointer. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 04:10:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:10:18 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Need Maildir-capable pop3 References: <20010923215059.B17330@mrbill.net> <1001308695.600.11.camel@fury> <20010924003211.J17330@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <02ff01c144d8$bc4be640$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> From: "Bill Bradford" > RPMs? Who uses RPMs? I compile from scratch, even on RedHat. thanks > for the pointer. Lazy people. Like me. :) Will. From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 04:46:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (faisal gillani) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 02:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <20010923230518.40F66EB@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010924094604.9004.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com> Hello there ... I have a question for the Western poeple .. why do you say so many things against taliban(muslims) when they order women to cover them selfs & dont even say anything to people in the far east who sells their children for sex ? Faisal (tell me if questions like this are not allowed here ) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 04:46:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (faisal gillani) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 02:46:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] why ?(1) In-Reply-To: <20010923230518.40F66EB@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010924094633.38911.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com> Hello there ... I have a question for the Western poeple .. why do you say so many things against taliban(muslims) when they order women to cover them selfs & dont even say anything to people in the far east who sells their children for sex ? Faisal (tell me if questions like this are not allowed here ) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 04:48:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (faisal gillani) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 02:48:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] why ?(1) Message-ID: <20010924094844.29463.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com> Hello there ... I have a question for the Western poeple .. why do you say so many things against taliban(muslims) when they order women to cover them selfs & dont even say anything to people in the far east who sells their children for sex ? Faisal (tell me if questions like this are not allowed here ) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 05:01:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael S. Schiller) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 06:01:38 -0400 Subject: [geeks] why ? References: <20010924094604.9004.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3BAF0482.C73F8CF8@agrijag.com> Faisal: Why do you assume that tabiban=muslims? I would say that tabiban= a group of people that are harboring a terrorist, that happen to be muslims. The American President said it very clearly the other night when he acknowledged that Muslims are peace loving people, not to be confused with the terrorist extremists. Now I'm not going to say that there aren't Americans that equate all muslims to terrorists, but they are wrong, and there are misguided people all over, not just in the US. -Mike faisal gillani wrote: > Hello there ... > > I have a question for the Western poeple .. why do > you say so many things against taliban(muslims) when > they order women to cover them selfs & dont even say > anything to people in the far east who sells their > children for sex ? > > Faisal > (tell me if questions like this are not allowed here ) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: 423-623-9054 * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 07:20:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:20:49 -0400 Subject: [geeks] why ? References: <20010924094604.9004.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001601c144f3$5941a2e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Allowed, I guess (Bill says "Anything goes" on Geeks maillist), but don't expect anything even approaching a polite discussion of the differences... As to your other question, none of the westerners I know/work/socialize with *ever* discuss the religious beliefs of Muslims, or Jews, or Protestants, Mormans, or Christian Scientists - in the West, most folks I know agree that ones relicous beliefs are just that, *their* beliefs, and quite persoanl and *private*. Ever heard the phrase "Live and Let Live"? Now, as to the second half of your question, no one I know/work/socialize with think it acceptable to treat women as second-class citizens, to be sold as property, etc. This has nothing to do with religion (AFAIK), it has more to do with economics and other societal beliefs. Nothing to do with religion. I assume you were looking for an intelligent response, if not, sorry, but I see no reason to attempt to foist my beliefs on anyone else - I'll *share* them, but only when asked - to do otherwise is considered rude "by most westerners." Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "faisal gillani" To: Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 5:46 AM Subject: [geeks] why ? > Hello there ... > > I have a question for the Western poeple .. why do > you say so many things against taliban(muslims) when > they order women to cover them selfs & dont even say > anything to people in the far east who sells their > children for sex ? > > > Faisal > (tell me if questions like this are not allowed here ) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 08:32:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (faisal gillani) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 06:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <001601c144f3$5941a2e0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010924133244.65996.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com> Ken Well i also do respect other poeple belives & religion but there is a big diffrence between respecting & accepting .. yes i know that you guys dont disscuss other people religions but why do we face difficulty from your side when we try to do something in our religion ... women in Islam are instructed strictly to do parda (cover them self up) no one can deny that . So when taliban instructed women to do parda .. so many westerners opposed that dession ... i mean in CNN they were accusing taliban for doing so .. why then ? yes my friend i have herd this phase but i dont think you guys have herd this ... look around who is not letting people live in palistine ,Iraq ,afganistan ,checnia ,kashmire ... why are muslims such a treat to you ? "with you i mean USA not you " Faisal --- Ken Hansen wrote: > Allowed, I guess (Bill says "Anything goes" on Geeks > maillist), but don't > expect anything even approaching a polite discussion > of the differences... > > As to your other question, none of the westerners I > know/work/socialize with > *ever* discuss the religious beliefs of Muslims, or > Jews, or Protestants, > Mormans, or Christian Scientists - in the West, most > folks I know agree that > ones relicous beliefs are just that, *their* > beliefs, and quite persoanl and > *private*. > > Ever heard the phrase "Live and Let Live"? > > Now, as to the second half of your question, no one > I know/work/socialize > with think it acceptable to treat women as > second-class citizens, to be sold > as property, etc. This has nothing to do with > religion (AFAIK), it has more > to do with economics and other societal beliefs. > Nothing to do with > religion. > > I assume you were looking for an intelligent > response, if not, sorry, but I > see no reason to attempt to foist my beliefs on > anyone else - I'll *share* > them, but only when asked - to do otherwise is > considered rude "by most > westerners." > > Ken > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "faisal gillani" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 5:46 AM > Subject: [geeks] why ? > > > > Hello there ... > > > > I have a question for the Western poeple .. why > do > > you say so many things against taliban(muslims) > when > > they order women to cover them selfs & dont even > say > > anything to people in the far east who sells their > > children for sex ? > > > > > > Faisal > > (tell me if questions like this are not allowed > here ) > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant > messaging with Yahoo! > Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 08:37:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:37:43 -0500 Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <20010924094604.9004.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010923230518.40F66EB@proven.weird.com> <20010924094604.9004.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010924083743.L17330@mrbill.net> Okay, I unsubscribed you from the other list already for not stopping this discussion in the other list. Please dont start it up here with questions guaranteed to incite a flamewar. Normally, "anything goes", but to me it looks like you just want to start a fight. I dont want to see any more responses to this message. Ordinary discussion is fine, but not when its sent with an intention to start a flamewar. BIll On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 02:46:04AM -0700, faisal gillani wrote: > Hello there ... > I have a question for the Western poeple .. why do > you say so many things against taliban(muslims) when > they order women to cover them selfs & dont even say > anything to people in the far east who sells their > children for sex ? > Faisal > (tell me if questions like this are not allowed here ) -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 08:38:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:38:17 -0500 Subject: [geeks] why ?(1) In-Reply-To: <20010924094633.38911.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010923230518.40F66EB@proven.weird.com> <20010924094633.38911.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010924083817.M17330@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 02:46:33AM -0700, faisal gillani wrote: > Hello there ... > I have a question for the Western poeple .. why do > you say so many things against taliban(muslims) when > they order women to cover them selfs & dont even say > anything to people in the far east who sells their > children for sex ? There was no need to send the same question three times. Keep it up, and you'll be unsubscribed and permanently blocked from all the lists. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 08:39:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:39:52 -0500 Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <20010924134013.85080.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3BAF0482.C73F8CF8@agrijag.com> <20010924134013.85080.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010924083952.N17330@mrbill.net> Again, it looks like you just want to start a flamewar. Keep it up and you'll be unsubscribed. Bill On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 06:40:13AM -0700, faisal gillani wrote: > well first of all Us dont even know who did it ..they > are confused cause they couldent find anyone who might > have done this .. > & cause usama has said that he is an enemy of US that > why US is blaming him ... cause seriously wat will > bush say to america people ... > & taliban are not attacking they are just defending .. > yes bush has done good saying that muslims arent to > blame ... to bad peoples are not listening to him .. > & the hate continues .. killing muslims all over the > world . -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 08:40:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (faisal gillani) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 06:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <3BAF0482.C73F8CF8@agrijag.com> Message-ID: <20010924134013.85080.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com> Michael well first of all Us dont even know who did it ..they are confused cause they couldent find anyone who might have done this .. & cause usama has said that he is an enemy of US that why US is blaming him ... cause seriously wat will bush say to america people ... & taliban are not attacking they are just defending .. yes bush has done good saying that muslims arent to blame ... to bad peoples are not listening to him .. & the hate continues .. killing muslims all over the world . Faisal --- "Michael S. Schiller" wrote: > Faisal: > > Why do you assume that tabiban=muslims? I would say > that tabiban= a group of people that are > harboring a terrorist, that happen to be muslims. > The American President said it very clearly the > other night when he acknowledged that Muslims are > peace loving people, not to be confused with the > terrorist extremists. Now I'm not going to say that > there aren't Americans that equate all muslims > to terrorists, but they are wrong, and there are > misguided people all over, not just in the US. > > -Mike > > faisal gillani wrote: > > > Hello there ... > > > > I have a question for the Western poeple .. why > do > > you say so many things against taliban(muslims) > when > > they order women to cover them selfs & dont even > say > > anything to people in the far east who sells their > > children for sex ? > > > > Faisal > > (tell me if questions like this are not allowed > here ) > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant > messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > -- > -Mike > *------------------------------------------------------------------* > *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 > 99 F9 BC 74 74 * > *Email: schiller at agrijag.com \|||/ > http://www.agrijag.com * > *Voice: 423-625-6349 (o o) FAX: > 423-623-9054 * > *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 08:51:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:51:46 -0500 Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <20010924134013.85080.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3BAF0482.C73F8CF8@agrijag.com> <20010924134013.85080.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010924085146.Q17330@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 06:40:13AM -0700, faisal gillani wrote: > well first of all Us dont even know who did it ..they > are confused cause they couldent find anyone who might > have done this .. > & cause usama has said that he is an enemy of US that > why US is blaming him ... cause seriously wat will > bush say to america people ... > & taliban are not attacking they are just defending .. Unsubscribed. My list, my rules, I dont like people who defend terrorists. Bill (and if this guy starts in on the "you hate Muslims" angle, its gonna be REAL funny - two of my best friends and coworkers are Muslim..) -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 12:34:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 12:34:51 -0500 Subject: [geeks] *ping* Message-ID: <20010924123451.D17330@mrbill.net> *ping* Just because I went off on some guy this morning doesent mean that yall have to shut up. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 12:41:25 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:41:25 -0400 Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: <20010924123451.D17330@mrbill.net> References: <20010924123451.D17330@mrbill.net> Message-ID: >*ping* > >Just because I went off on some guy this morning doesent mean that >yall have to shut up. 8-) What is a Visualize box worth these days? A C240 with an FX4 card is on ebay right now for relatively cheap. I can't find any data on the FX4 card so I'm wondering how that box would compare to an Indigo2 IMPACT system. daniel From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 12:44:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:44:51 -0400 Subject: [geeks] *ping* References: <20010924123451.D17330@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3BAF7113.22B5FEE4@avoidant.org> Bill Bradford wrote: > Just because I went off on some guy this morning doesent mean that > yall have to shut up. 8-) Yes it does. heh. ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 12:53:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 12:53:32 -0500 Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: <3BAF7113.22B5FEE4@avoidant.org> References: <20010924123451.D17330@mrbill.net> <3BAF7113.22B5FEE4@avoidant.org> Message-ID: <20010924125332.F17330@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 01:44:51PM -0400, s at avoidant.org wrote: > Bill Bradford wrote: > > Just because I went off on some guy this morning doesent mean that > > yall have to shut up. 8-) > Yes it does. I only go off on people who deserve it - that guy had started his spiel on another list I run and I had to unsubscribe hime to get him to shut up - after repeated requests. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 13:21:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael A. Turner) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:21:23 -0400 Subject: [geeks] *ping* Message-ID: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA468@terra.whro.org> heh not a problem, I have hung out on newsgroups to long to even start to rise to that guys bait. I was just suprised that he travled this far to pick a fight. Doesn't his kind usually live under a bridge? And we are being quite because friendly fire never is. When the big dog comes down of the porch it's best to hide under the porch :-) Michael A. Turner Systems Engineer WHRO michael.turner at whro.org http://www.whro.org -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bradford [mailto:mrbill at mrbill.net] Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 1:54 PM To: geeks at sunhelp.org Subject: Re: [geeks] *ping* On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 01:44:51PM -0400, s at avoidant.org wrote: > Bill Bradford wrote: > > Just because I went off on some guy this morning doesent mean that > > yall have to shut up. 8-) > Yes it does. I only go off on people who deserve it - that guy had started his spiel on another list I run and I had to unsubscribe hime to get him to shut up - after repeated requests. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX _______________________________________________ GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 13:28:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:28:26 -0400 Subject: [geeks] *ping* References: <20010924123451.D17330@mrbill.net> <3BAF7113.22B5FEE4@avoidant.org> <20010924125332.F17330@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3BAF7B4A.F898ED7D@avoidant.org> Bill Bradford wrote: > > Yes it does. > > I only go off on people who deserve it - that guy had started his spiel > on another list I run and I had to unsubscribe hime to get him to > shut up - after repeated requests. I know, I was there. My comment above was just me being a wiseass. I can't help it. ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 13:53:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Rob) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: <3BAF7B4A.F898ED7D@avoidant.org> Message-ID: Anyone know how to fix a palm III screen. All the operations, sync, buttons, stylus sensing works but the screen is very dim and has vertical bands of non lit pixels. I think mine's heading for the graveyard after many years of service. It's a Palm IIIx. Any suggestions for a Palm compatible replacement? R.I.P. old friend. - Rob From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 14:02:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 24 Sep 2001 12:02:17 -0700 Subject: [geeks] My love/hate with Mickeysoft... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1001358140.2359.20.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Sun, 2001-09-23 at 11:56, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > They are pulling Java support from IE. They have their own answers to > questions that have already been asked, like Windows Media player, Active > X, and their answer to the univeral VST plug-ins for sequencing. > > Why?? Why in the hell to they come out with another format, when we have > Quicktime, MP3's, and the like already? It just adds another layer of > confusion. They can't continue to ship Java, more or less. They can keep it in their existing products, but can't add it to any new ones. Since IE is now part of the operating system for MS, they've got to decouple Java from IE (clearly a new version of MS Windows is a new product, and can't include Java). Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 14:04:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:04:14 -0500 Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: References: <3BAF7B4A.F898ED7D@avoidant.org> Message-ID: <20010924140414.I17330@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 02:53:40PM -0400, Rob wrote: > Anyone know how to fix a palm III screen. All the operations, > sync, buttons, stylus sensing works but the screen is very dim and has > vertical bands of non lit pixels. I think mine's heading for the > graveyard after many years of service. It's a Palm IIIx. > Any suggestions for a Palm compatible replacement? > R.I.P. old friend. > - Rob Just get a Visor.. Local Fry's here has 8 meg Visor Pros (refurb) for $99... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 15:20:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:20:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] GPS clocks Message-ID: I'd like to hear anyone's opinions on cheap reliable gps refrence clocks. I'm specifically looking at the one made by gpsclock.com. Anyone know of any other sub $500 complete units(board + antenna + rs-232 interface)? -ben From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 16:10:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:10:17 -0400 Subject: [geeks] *ping* References: Message-ID: <01b401c1453d$533ec9f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > Any suggestions for a Palm compatible replacement? > I went to a Palm V - mostly because I liked the looks. I'm very happy with it - no complaints at all. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 16:18:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:18:33 EDT Subject: [geeks] Need Maildir-capable pop3 References: <20010923225447.F17330@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <01381171832.dave.10314@cca.org> mrbill at mrbill.net writes: >On Sun, Sep 23, 2001 at 11:13:21PM -0400, s at avoidant.org wrote: >> http://nupop.sourceforge.net/ >Already tried that, it keeps telling me I have a bad password. >(this is a redhat 6.x box) If you find out what the bad-passwd-in-pop3 bug is, please let me know! That confused the hell out of me for one PC at work. I eventually gave up and switched that one user to IMAP, and the new mailserver I just put together doesn't exhibit the problem, so I'm not fighting it anymore, but I am curious. (The offending server was slackware on a PC.) -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- --------- "I prefer the ridiculous to the sublime." - James Chance --------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 16:24:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Al Potter) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:24:17 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Palm resurection In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:53:40 EDT." Message-ID: <200109242124.f8OLOHS03801@da4.icsa.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii rstaab at panix.com said: > Anyone know how to fix a palm III screen. Maybe.... BACK UP YOUR DATA! Then, open the case. There is a ribbon cable linking the two circuit boards. CAREFULLY disconnect it, clean (burnish) the end of the cable with a pencil eraser, and reconnect it. Reassemble. This has cleared up the same type of issue for me in the past. AL -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 iQCVAwUBO6+kgduN3h5YyVRRAQLKvgQAsAL64elK1DFLoK7d5szxFtWBVRouJICr dy2hVZ1uzdmBZd0Fa1aCvGAUPYC2iCycb5Gvp+3HnSDrHe/r6VVNRtKa1DXH6jhJ is7ygahmZeZlaQexYD6kb+V5LCPq6eROxy5yeVDpaMZBOKVoE+JJAnXp2NrY+nII xJDvFw4K3EM= =kLxk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 16:26:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:26:02 EDT Subject: [geeks] GPS clocks References: Message-ID: <01381172602.dave.10430@cca.org> bkelley at birch.net writes: >I'd like to hear anyone's opinions on cheap reliable gps refrence clocks. >I'm specifically looking at the one made by gpsclock.com. >Anyone know of any other sub $500 complete units(board + antenna + >rs-232 interface)? I wonder if you could use one as a war detector. GPS is supposed to stop being usefull when "the shit hits the fan", right? Can they stop people from getting the mil channel anymore, or is that distinction completely history? Someone told me once that there was no security whatsoever in the data, and the military relied on the cooperation of the GPS receiver makers to not use the high-resolution mil channel for civilian units. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- --------- "I prefer the ridiculous to the sublime." - James Chance --------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 16:42:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Al Potter) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:42:23 -0400 Subject: [geeks] GPS clocks In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:26:02 EDT." <01381172602.dave.10430@cca.org> Message-ID: <200109242142.f8OLgN003913@da4.icsa.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii dave at cca.org said: > GPS is supposed to stop being usefull when "the shit hits the fan", > right? Can they stop people from getting the mil channel anymore, or > is that distinction completely history? http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/FGCS/info/sans_SA/ It's called selective availability, and was disabled in May of 2000. Details are in the "Statement by the President" at the link above. AL -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 iQCVAwUBO6+ov9uN3h5YyVRRAQIxEAQAzCeDpj2Xmsre0RTU8DIL2HP/wDr0wsAj UqPPBDF5rDXQxsaUsn7cGmSxQ3/CrP7nduFcsOg7rtxzVS2Cf+HMiS7RgiWx1ijK hGFReAaX5+yfbsqBDtMwP05HiWHJs+pVh2DzoL9cuNU5vpghzCZKdIREwQqSLMdf T6Wr9GS0R9Q= =gUjc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 16:45:56 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Erik) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] GPS clocks In-Reply-To: <01381172602.dave.10430@cca.org> Message-ID: > >I'd like to hear anyone's opinions on cheap reliable gps refrence clocks. > >I'm specifically looking at the one made by gpsclock.com. > >Anyone know of any other sub $500 complete units(board + antenna + > >rs-232 interface)? > > I wonder if you could use one as a war detector. > > GPS is supposed to stop being usefull when "the shit hits the > fan", right? Can they stop people from getting the mil channel > anymore, or is that distinction completely history? > > Someone told me once that there was no security whatsoever in > the data, and the military relied on the cooperation of the > GPS receiver makers to not use the high-resolution mil channel > for civilian units. I don't remember the details, but I believe they dropped it a couple of years ago. I haven't really been following the thread, but I know the precision was increased by a firmware update in most Garmin units a couple of years ago, allowing it to be far more accurate, instead of some 50ft radius or something, it was closer to 15-20 IIRC. --- Erik Parker --- From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 16:53:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:53:20 -0400 Subject: [geeks] *ping* References: <01b401c1453d$533ec9f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010924161513.W2839@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <01f401c14543$569c1700$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > I'm still stuck on my Palm3 until it dies, but I'll be replacing it with > one of two things: > > 1. New ARM-based Palm when they ship > 2. That nice clone without a silkscreened area and the CF slot. Yeah - I regretted buying a Palm V as early on as I did. A few months later all sorts of neat-o clones (with more features) were hitting the streets. Then I remembered, I don't regret anything. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 18:13:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:13:12 -0400 Subject: [geeks] HP B0xen In-Reply-To: <3BAF884F.13416.561AC05@localhost> References: <20010924231224.43F3311DD6@ohno.mrbill.net> <3BAF884F.13416.561AC05@localhost> Message-ID: <20010924191312.A16866@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 07:23:59PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > I too wonder about that. The price on PA-RISC systems just fell > through the floor recently, I see C120s and whatnot going for like > $50 decently configured. They have what looks like very nice > graphics cards but I have no idea how good they are. Also, what's > the weird graphics connector on some B-Class machines? Looks > like LCD but... If only they didn't run HP/UX. Any particular reason for the falling prices? I just paid signnificatly more than $50 for a 712 2 months ago. But, for what I want, the 712 is the better choice anyway, so I can't feel too bad. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 18:19:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:19:58 -0400 Subject: [geeks] *ping* References: <3BAF7B4A.F898ED7D@avoidant.org> <20010924140414.I17330@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <001d01c1454f$6e5b61a0$0301a8c0@kensportege> I think Palm has a flat-fee repair service, but suspect the cost will approach that ofr a new/refurb model... I'd look at Palm fo rthe answer (I suspect your concern is the accessories you biught to go with the Palm IIIx. Are you sure the warranty is over? HTH, Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] *ping* > On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 02:53:40PM -0400, Rob wrote: > > Anyone know how to fix a palm III screen. All the operations, > > sync, buttons, stylus sensing works but the screen is very dim and has > > vertical bands of non lit pixels. I think mine's heading for the > > graveyard after many years of service. It's a Palm IIIx. > > Any suggestions for a Palm compatible replacement? > > R.I.P. old friend. > > - Rob > > Just get a Visor.. Local Fry's here has 8 meg Visor Pros (refurb) for > $99... > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 18:21:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:21:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] *ping* References: <01b401c1453d$533ec9f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <004001c1454f$b2209fe0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Palm V is nice (I have one) and the new Handsprings are nice too... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt Huhn" To: Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] *ping* > > Any suggestions for a Palm compatible replacement? > > I went to a Palm V - mostly because I liked the looks. I'm very happy with > it - no complaints at all. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 18:23:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:23:00 -0400 Subject: [geeks] *ping* References: <01b401c1453d$533ec9f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010924161513.W2839@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <004801c1454f$daf35e80$0301a8c0@kensportege> TRGpro, or whatever they changed their name to... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reagen B. Ward" To: Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] *ping* > I'm still stuck on my Palm3 until it dies, but I'll be replacing it with > one of two things: > > 1. New ARM-based Palm when they ship > 2. That nice clone without a silkscreened area and the CF slot. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 18:23:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:23:59 -0400 Subject: [geeks] HP B0xen In-Reply-To: <20010924231224.43F3311DD6@ohno.mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3BAF884F.13416.561AC05@localhost> On 24 Sep 2001, at 18:12, geeks-request at sunhelp.org wrote: > >*ping* > > > >Just because I went off on some guy this morning doesent mean that > >yall have to shut up. 8-) > > What is a Visualize box worth these days? A C240 with an FX4 card is > on ebay right now for relatively cheap. I can't find any data on the > FX4 card so I'm wondering how that box would compare to an Indigo2 > IMPACT system. I too wonder about that. The price on PA-RISC systems just fell through the floor recently, I see C120s and whatnot going for like $50 decently configured. They have what looks like very nice graphics cards but I have no idea how good they are. Also, what's the weird graphics connector on some B-Class machines? Looks like LCD but... If only they didn't run HP/UX. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 18:54:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:54:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Taco Bell Commercials Message-ID: 1. Jeff Bezos looks a *little* too awake -- like he's on speed. 2. The "CQ" commercial isn't bad. They *actually* got the lingo right. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 19:17:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:17:55 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Taco Bell Commercials In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010924191755.H7286@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 11:54:43PM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > 2. The "CQ" commercial isn't bad. They *actually* got the lingo right. Whats this one? I dont watch enough tv to catch these commercials. Bill (taco bell dont advertise on cnn or discovery channel...) -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 19:19:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D.A. Muran-de Assereto) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:19:26 -0400 Subject: [geeks] HP B0xen - RAM In-Reply-To: <20010924191312.A16866@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: Was just looking at the HP boxes on Ebay...not sure of what I would get, but I haven't messed with HPUX in four years or so.... Anyway - I saw a RAM upgrade kit, containing what looked suspiciously like 72-pin parity SIMMS. The seller claims it's for an HP C240. What I want to know is if it's just HP-branded 72-pin parity SIMMS, or is there something special/weird about them. You see, I actually need the RAM for an Alpha. Dave Muran-de Assereto From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 20:05:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: <3BAE8646.4000500@mrplaid.com> Message-ID: > > I love my Handspring Platinum. I just wish someone would come out with > an ethernet module. > will the new xircom wireless ethernet springboard module not work? I've been waiting for them to come out and from what I've seen, they're finally out. From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 21:02:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 02:02:18 +0000 Subject: [geeks] why ? Message-ID: <20010925020219.FEJM8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Most Westerners don't know the reason women "women cover up" just as most in the Middle East may not understand why some of our women do the opposite. I can understand why the women practice (is that a good word to use here?) parda. That doesn't bother me at all, many do that in the city in which I work. It's a different culture, a different religion. CNN can make a big deal out of it. To me, so what? But that's not the only thing. Is it true that the women are not allowed to go to school? If true, I do not agree with that. Now one thing that's practiced in other parts of the world which I cannot understand is female circumcision. I may have an slight idea what that's all about but I don't agree with it, not in the least. Yet it's part of some people's belief system (note I'm not necessarily saying religion here). Maybe a better example would be if someone wanted to build a mosque next to my church, I have no problem with that. Now if they wanted to burn down my church so they can put up a mosque, that's a different story. The Taliban appear to be supporting some individuals who want to "burn down my church" and may have started the process already. I'm not going to accept that. > Ken > > Well i also do respect other poeple belives & > religion but there is a big diffrence between > respecting & accepting .. yes i know that you guys > dont disscuss other people religions but why do we > face difficulty from your side when we try to do > something in our religion ... women in Islam are > instructed strictly to do parda (cover them self up) > no one can deny that . > So when taliban instructed women to do parda .. so > many westerners opposed that dession ... i mean in CNN > they were accusing taliban for doing so .. why then ? > yes my friend i have herd this phase but i dont think > you guys have herd this ... look around who is not > letting people live in palistine ,Iraq ,afganistan > ,checnia ,kashmire ... > why are muslims such a treat to you ? "with you i mean > USA not you " > > > Faisal > > > --- Ken Hansen wrote: > > Allowed, I guess (Bill says "Anything goes" on Geeks > > maillist), but don't > > expect anything even approaching a polite discussion > > of the differences... > > > > As to your other question, none of the westerners I > > know/work/socialize with > > *ever* discuss the religious beliefs of Muslims, or > > Jews, or Protestants, > > Mormans, or Christian Scientists - in the West, most > > folks I know agree that > > ones relicous beliefs are just that, *their* > > beliefs, and quite persoanl and > > *private*. > > > > Ever heard the phrase "Live and Let Live"? > > > > Now, as to the second half of your question, no one > > I know/work/socialize > > with think it acceptable to treat women as > > second-class citizens, to be sold > > as property, etc. This has nothing to do with > > religion (AFAIK), it has more > > to do with economics and other societal beliefs. > > Nothing to do with > > religion. > > > > I assume you were looking for an intelligent > > response, if not, sorry, but I > > see no reason to attempt to foist my beliefs on > > anyone else - I'll *share* > > them, but only when asked - to do otherwise is > > considered rude "by most > > westerners." > > > > Ken > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "faisal gillani" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 5:46 AM > > Subject: [geeks] why ? > > > > > > > Hello there ... > > > > > > I have a question for the Western poeple .. why > > do > > > you say so many things against taliban(muslims) > > when > > > they order women to cover them selfs & dont even > > say > > > anything to people in the far east who sells their > > > children for sex ? > > > > > > > > > Faisal > > > (tell me if questions like this are not allowed > > here ) > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant > > messaging with Yahoo! > > Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > GEEKS: > > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 21:05:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 02:05:47 +0000 Subject: [geeks] why ? Message-ID: <20010925020547.FFYE8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> > I dont want to see any more responses to this message. Ordinary > discussion is fine, but not when its sent with an intention to > start a flamewar. > > BIll Ooops, sorry Bill. I responded before I read this message. I hope my response was not inciting flames. You can delete it if you want to. From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 21:18:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 02:18:19 +0000 Subject: [geeks] GPS clocks Message-ID: <20010925021820.FMAL8481.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> I understand they just shut it off. Reason unknown...which means they have something better now :-> Have to ask the JROTC teachers tomorrow. > On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 05:26:02PM -0400, dave at cca.org wrote: > > > GPS is supposed to stop being usefull when "the shit hits the > > fan", right? Can they stop people from getting the mil channel > > anymore, or is that distinction completely history? > > Well, during the Gulf War, they supposedly ran low on the decryption > chips or something, so they stopped using the encryption on the mil > channels. Everyone's GPS suddenly got more accurate. > > This, of course, is based on rumor. I have no personal knowledge. > > Reagen > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 21:59:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! Message-ID: Somebody came up with a new one: they used basenji.com to relay SPAM by using pwargo at basenji.com as the From: address! Great, now I'm on the rbl, my inbox is full of crap, and I am royally pissed... Anybody got a goos sendmail directive that would prevent this? I guess I will just have to accept SMTP mail only from my internal network... -Pete ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:04:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:04:39 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Taco Bell Commercials References: <002d01c1456f$bf276140$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <028701c1456e$d487e740$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > Are things that tough in "Dot.Bomb" land? > Um, yes. (first hand knowledge) Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:09:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:09:58 -0400 Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! References: Message-ID: <028d01c1456f$9282da20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > Anybody got a goos sendmail directive that would prevent this? I guess I > will just have to accept SMTP mail only from my internal network... > I deny all SMTP from anywhere. However, if I'm on the road and need to send mail, I sometimes setup a temporary rule in sendmail to allow relaying from my IP. More often than not, though, I just use SSH into the mail server and use Mutt to read/send mail. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:11:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:11:18 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Taco Bell Commercials References: Message-ID: <002d01c1456f$bf276140$0301a8c0@kensportege> Geez, the first thing I thought when I saw the ad was "What, he needs the money?" Are things that tough in "Dot.Bomb" land? Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris Kirby" To: "Geeks" Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: [geeks] Taco Bell Commercials > 1. Jeff Bezos looks a *little* too awake -- like he's on speed. > 2. The "CQ" commercial isn't bad. They *actually* got the lingo right. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:18:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! In-Reply-To: <028d01c1456f$9282da20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > I deny all SMTP from anywhere. However, if I'm on the road and need to send > mail, I sometimes setup a temporary rule in sendmail to allow relaying from > my IP. More often than not, though, I just use SSH into the mail server and > use Mutt to read/send mail. Hard to do when I let other folks use basenji.com for email accounts.... -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:22:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:22:13 -0400 Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! References: Message-ID: <003701c14571$45b07de0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Oh Pete, be happy - You'll be famous! I know I always look forward to mail from you, and now I will get more of it! ;^) Ken (Who was amazed that the HP-UX 10.20 box I "threw-up" this weekend had a mailserver that just *worked* - with zero effort on mypart I just sent email to my dynamic DNS URL and it got to me, then outbound mail worked just as well... Amazing. I thought email server config was hard... Of course, since this is a default vendor install from a 4 year old OS, I am sure it is *quite* secure!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter L. Wargo" To: Cc: "Forrest Black" ; "Matt Parker" Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 10:59 PM Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! > Somebody came up with a new one: they used basenji.com to relay SPAM by > using pwargo at basenji.com as the From: address! > > Great, now I'm on the rbl, my inbox is full of crap, and I am royally > pissed... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:26:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] more SPAM info... Message-ID: Looks like it came from glory-innovations.com.tw There is a web site, nothing useful... Gotta figgure out who owns it... I am steamed. Very steamed. -P ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:33:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] more SPAM info... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: O.K., I am calm now. the place that is came from 61.16.61.42 is on the rbl, not me. I guess I need to finish that subscription to it now... Argh. -P ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > Looks like it came from glory-innovations.com.tw > > There is a web site, nothing useful... > > Gotta figgure out who owns it... > > I am steamed. Very steamed. > > -P > > ----- > Peter L. Wargo > pwargo at basenji.com > Owner/operator of basenji.com. > "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:34:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:34:38 -0400 Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! References: Message-ID: <02a001c14573$04dc0c10$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > Hard to do when I let other folks use basenji.com for email accounts.... > Yeah - that can be difficult. Do these other folks have static IPs? That would be easy to restrict. However, it never is that easy. I've heard of sites that setup mail so that a user *must* login via POP3 and get mail before they will allow SMTP connections from that IP. Not sure how to set this up though - though you might be able to do it with shell scripts, and log files. I'm sure there's a simpler and more elegant solution - qmail maybe? Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:44:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:44:46 -0400 Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! In-Reply-To: References: <028d01c1456f$9282da20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010924234446.B21695@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 08:18:01PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > I deny all SMTP from anywhere. However, if I'm on the road and need to send > > mail, I sometimes setup a temporary rule in sendmail to allow relaying from > > my IP. More often than not, though, I just use SSH into the mail server and > > use Mutt to read/send mail. > > Hard to do when I let other folks use basenji.com for email accounts.... Don't these other people have other ways to send mail, like their ISP's SMTP server? -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:48:29 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:48:29 -0500 Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010924224829.L7286@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 07:59:22PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > Somebody came up with a new one: they used basenji.com to relay SPAM by > using pwargo at basenji.com as the From: address! > Great, now I'm on the rbl, my inbox is full of crap, and I am royally > pissed... > Anybody got a goos sendmail directive that would prevent this? I guess I > will just have to accept SMTP mail only from my internal network... > > -Pete Postfix prevents this by default. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:49:26 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:49:26 -0500 Subject: [geeks] more SPAM info... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010924224926.M7286@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 08:33:49PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > O.K., I am calm now. the place that is came from 61.16.61.42 is on the > rbl, not me. I guess I need to finish that subscription to it now... > Argh. > -P I use ORDB now. www.ordb.org. Blocked about 500+ spams since this morning. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:50:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:50:04 -0500 Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010924225004.N7286@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 03:51:13AM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > > Anybody got a goos sendmail directive that would prevent this? I guess I > > will just have to accept SMTP mail only from my internal network... > I've got a script I pulled off of the internet along with a sendmail .mc > fragment that implements POP before SMTP with little pain. I have lots of people with POP3 accounts on ohno/sunhelp - but if they want to *send* mail, they either a. have to have a static IP, or b. use their ISP's SMTP server. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:51:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 03:51:13 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > Anybody got a goos sendmail directive that would prevent this? I guess I > will just have to accept SMTP mail only from my internal network... I've got a script I pulled off of the internet along with a sendmail .mc fragment that implements POP before SMTP with little pain. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:53:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! In-Reply-To: <02a001c14573$04dc0c10$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > I've heard of sites that setup mail so that a user *must* login via POP3 and > get mail before they will allow SMTP connections from that IP. Not sure how > to set this up though - though you might be able to do it with shell > scripts, and log files. I'm sure there's a simpler and more elegant > solution - qmail maybe? Hmmm... In any event, I think I should finally send in my RBL application, as it would've blocked this one. I %&#%$@!! hate spammers, it's a pain in the tail. -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 22:57:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! In-Reply-To: <003701c14571$45b07de0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > Oh Pete, be happy - You'll be famous! "This kind of fame, I could do without. Oy vey..." > I know I always look forward to mail from you, and now I will get more of > it! ;^) Just for that, I should email you all the bounce messages. :-) -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 23:04:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! In-Reply-To: <20010924225004.N7286@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > I have lots of people with POP3 accounts on ohno/sunhelp - but if they want > to *send* mail, they either a. have to have a static IP, or b. use their > ISP's SMTP server. Actually, most (if not all of them) do. I had to when I was using earthlink and basenji.com was elsewhere. I just hate the face that some people are so damn sleazy... -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 23:08:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 04:08:39 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Dog fights (Was: Re: [nlug] Re: Microsoft Licensing Changes...effective October 2001) In-Reply-To: <20010924221327.D2276@negwo.eastcore.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Rick Bradley wrote: > Not wanting to stick my hand in a dog-fight, but I have a feeling a I stuck a hand in a dog fight today. Both hands, really. One for each dog. It was a "small" dog fight, but they were very serious. Going straight for the throat, teeth and all. Ended that quick -- grab for the neck, seperate, and scream: NO! Man, I'm one crazy mofo. 8-) ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 23:15:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 04:15:20 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] why ?(1) In-Reply-To: <20010924094844.29463.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Perhaps a better question to ask is why this idiot feels compelled to post the same message multiple times. Drop him Bill; you have my blessing (yeah, like you need it ;-). ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 23:28:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (James Sharp) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 00:28:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Dog fights (Was: Re: [nlug] Re: Microsoft Licensing Changes...effective October 2001) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Man, I'm one crazy mofo. 8-) > Should we call you Lefty now? From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 23:31:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:31:48 -0500 Subject: [geeks] best site ive seen in a while Message-ID: <20010924233148.Q7286@mrbill.net> I've been reading this for four days: http://www.lowbrow.com Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 23:41:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 04:41:22 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Dog fights (Was: Re: [nlug] Re: Microsoft Licensing Changes...effective October 2001) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, James Sharp wrote: > Should we call you Lefty now? FWIW, I'm left-handed already. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 23:44:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:44:58 -0500 Subject: [geeks] best site ive seen in a while In-Reply-To: References: <20010924233148.Q7286@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010924234457.S7286@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 09:46:20PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > > I've been reading this for four days: > > http://www.lowbrow.com > Whee!!! "I fed a pig bacon" Keep hitting reload. You get some duplicates, but I *still* havent run out of new "moments". Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 23:46:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] best site ive seen in a while In-Reply-To: <20010924233148.Q7286@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > I've been reading this for four days: > > http://www.lowbrow.com Whee!!! "I fed a pig bacon" -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 23:46:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] best site ive seen in a while In-Reply-To: <20010924233148.Q7286@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > I've been reading this for four days: > > http://www.lowbrow.com Whee!!! "I fed a pig bacon" -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 23:47:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Dog fights (Was: Re: [nlug] Re: Microsoft Licensing Changes...effective October 2001) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Kris Kirby wrote: > On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, James Sharp wrote: > > Should we call you Lefty now? > > FWIW, I'm left-handed already. I have no fear of one dog. Two is a different story, but I have been known to yank fighting basenjis apart before. (But the real sight is to see our breeder break up a fight between two packs!) -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Sep 24 23:53:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 04:53:34 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] GPS clocks In-Reply-To: <200109242142.f8OLgN003913@da4.icsa.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Al Potter wrote: > It's called selective availability, and was disabled in May of 2000. Details > are in the "Statement by the President" at the link above. Which isn't to say that Bush can't reactivate SA. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 01:50:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 02:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] more SPAM info... In-Reply-To: <20010924224926.M7286@mrbill.net> References: <20010924224926.M7286@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010925065022.2C744ED@proven.weird.com> [ On Monday, September 24, 2001 at 22:49:26 (-0500), Bill Bradford wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] more SPAM info... > > On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 08:33:49PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > > O.K., I am calm now. the place that is came from 61.16.61.42 is on the > > rbl, not me. I guess I need to finish that subscription to it now... > > Argh. > > -P > > I use ORDB now. www.ordb.org. > > Blocked about 500+ spams since this morning. $ rblcount logfile.0 22 RHSBL (*.rfc-ignorant.org) 4 blackholes.mail-abuse.org 77 dialups.mail-abuse.org 373 inputs.orbz.org 626 outputs.orbz.org 6617 relays.mail-abuse.org 1565 relays.ordb.org 347 relays.osirusoft.com (damn if I know why mail-abuse.org is working for me again -- I explicitly asked MAPS *not* to execute the agreements I originally sent to them after they told me flat-out they would not put my entire /24 in their ACLs -- but I can't complain, especially since orbl.org are still not back in production) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 06:04:29 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:04:29 -0400 Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! In-Reply-To: <20010925033324.F2E1111BFB@ohno.mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3BB02C7D.1338.7E2FFC5@localhost> On 24 Sep 2001, at 22:33, geeks-request at sunhelp.org wrote: > > Hard to do when I let other folks use basenji.com for email > > accounts.... > > > > Yeah - that can be difficult. Do these other folks have static IPs? > That would be easy to restrict. However, it never is that easy. > > I've heard of sites that setup mail so that a user *must* login via > POP3 and get mail before they will allow SMTP connections from that > IP. Not sure how to set this up though - though you might be able to > do it with shell scripts, and log files. I'm sure there's a simpler > and more elegant solution - qmail maybe? There are a couple ways to do smtp auth with qmail. Qmail doesn't have builtin auth but the other programs work fine. "smtpauth" makes the user log into smtp like you suggested. Other schemes make the user check pop3 mail first then lets them send smtp from that address for 30min or so. These are really simple and I wrote one for my current work to deal with roaming users and it works like a charm. Most email clients do pop3 before smtp anyway so the remote lusers only have to put in the email server name and not deal with any kind of smtpauth. Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 07:07:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:07:50 -0400 Subject: [geeks] best site ive seen in a while References: <20010924233148.Q7286@mrbill.net> <20010924234457.S7286@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <005101c145ba$b3365300$0301a8c0@kensportege> Wah! I can't load the site! Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:44 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] best site ive seen in a while > > > http://www.lowbrow.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 07:32:35 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:32:35 -0400 Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! References: <02a001c14573$04dc0c10$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <3BB07963.C296B9D@avoidant.org> Kurt Huhn wrote: > Yeah - that can be difficult. Do these other folks have static IPs? That > would be easy to restrict. However, it never is that easy. Accounts on my box can send from static IPs or use the webmail. It's that easy. > I've heard of sites that setup mail so that a user *must* login via POP3 and > get mail before they will allow SMTP connections from that IP. Sure. It's implemented in Sendmail 8.10 and later. http://www.sendmail.org > to set this up though - though you might be able to do it with shell > scripts, and log files. I'm sure there's a simpler and more elegant > solution The shell scripts, log files and cron method worked fine when I did it a few years ago, before sendmail included SMTP AUTH. I'd share, but the scripts are long gone. It went something like: Once a minute check the log for a successful pop, add the ip address from whence it came to /etc/mail/relay-domains and HUP sendmail. Unfortunately, sendmail is bad, and doesn't keep it's pid when HUPped, so don't do this on a box that monitors such things for security (yes, I do that on other boxes. Watch your pids, ladies and gentelmen!). For expiring ips, you could create /tmp/relays. When adding an ip to relay-domains, touch a file named with the ip in /tmp/relays. Part of the script could check for files in that dir older than ten minutes or whatever. Remove the ip from relay-domains when you find one. To get a little fancier, you should grep relay-domains for the ip before appending it blindly, to account for jackasses like me who have their popclient set to check for mail once a minute. That way you won't be resarting sendmail needlessly. People who leave their mailclient open like that will keep their ability to send if your script keeps touching their /tmp/relays file at each succesful pop. Have fun, and share the result with me if you write this. I'd do it, but don't have time. It should only take a couple of hours. ---sambo - qmail maybe? From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 07:41:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 05:41:22 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Dog fights (Was: Re: [nlug] Re: Microsoft Licensing C hanges...effective October 2001) Message-ID: I've had to break up fights between my Huskies. When two start, the others all join in. Usually I win, otherwise my wolf hybrid wins. Only the hybrid was stupid enough to turn on me, and I have scars and broken fingers from the attempt. She has been edumakated that its a bad idea to turn on the alpha dude. The edumakation involves jumping the dog, rolling her, pinning her and then barking in her face and holding her until she backs down (and pees too, unfortunately). I know it sounds stupid, but it worked like a charm. Professional dog trainers know this technique. Its used for hyper-alpha headstrong dogs. It basically communicates in their language. > I have no fear of one dog. Two is a different story, but I have been > known to yank fighting basenjis apart before. (But the real > sight is to > see our breeder break up a fight between two packs!) > > -Pete > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 09:25:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:25:53 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Are Dave and Mike ok? Message-ID: <003001c145cd$fe993430$6401a8c0@laboffice> Hello, Last night a tornado touched down in the Laurel and College Park area, I dropped Dave and Mike a line to see if they were both ok, and both of the messages bounced. Anyone know how they are doing? Zach From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 09:59:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:59:14 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Are Dave and Mike ok? In-Reply-To: <003001c145cd$fe993430$6401a8c0@laboffice> References: <003001c145cd$fe993430$6401a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: <01092511003300.00723@two-time.twmaster.com> On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, you wrote: > Hello, > Last night a tornado touched down in the Laurel and College Park area, I > dropped Dave and Mike a line to see if they were both ok, and both of the > messages bounced. Anyone know how they are doing? > Zach > We are fine! Power just came back on 15 mins ago and am now just getting services back online. the tornado hit our town about 3/4 of a mile west of us. Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 10:18:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:18:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] HP B0xen - RAM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01092511183302.00723@two-time.twmaster.com> On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, you wrote: > Was just looking at the HP boxes on Ebay...not sure of what I would get, > but I haven't messed with HPUX in four years or so.... > > Anyway - I saw a RAM upgrade kit, containing what looked suspiciously > like 72-pin parity SIMMS. The seller claims it's for an HP C240. What > I want to know is if it's just HP-branded 72-pin parity SIMMS, or is > there something special/weird about them. > You see, I actually need the RAM for an Alpha. HP proprietary only. Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 10:19:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Nicewonger) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:19:17 -0400 Subject: [geeks] HP B0xen In-Reply-To: <3BAF884F.13416.561AC05@localhost> References: <3BAF884F.13416.561AC05@localhost> Message-ID: <01092511202803.00723@two-time.twmaster.com> On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, you wrote: > On 24 Sep 2001, at 18:12, geeks-request at sunhelp.org wrote: > > > >*ping* > > > > > >Just because I went off on some guy this morning doesent mean that > > >yall have to shut up. 8-) > > > > What is a Visualize box worth these days? A C240 with an FX4 card is > > on ebay right now for relatively cheap. I can't find any data on the > > FX4 card so I'm wondering how that box would compare to an Indigo2 > > IMPACT system. > > I too wonder about that. The price on PA-RISC systems just fell > through the floor recently, I see C120s and whatnot going for like > $50 decently configured. They have what looks like very nice > graphics cards but I have no idea how good they are. Also, what's > the weird graphics connector on some B-Class machines? Looks > like LCD but... If only they didn't run HP/UX. > The FX board and the most of the better B series workstations use digital outputs (P&D type) like on LCD's. Otherwise they are very nice items. Mike N From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 10:39:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 15:39:50 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Dog fights (Was: Re: [nlug] Re: Microsoft Licensing C hanges...effective October 2001) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Fogg, James wrote: > hyper-alpha headstrong dogs. It basically communicates in their language. Our beagle is brain-damaged to some extent and wears her emotions on her sleeve, so to speak. She also interprets human guestures as dog guestures. Smiling and laughing have a bad effect on her. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 11:56:31 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (faisal gillani) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <20010924083743.L17330@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010925165631.66177.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com> Ok ... you unsubscribe me .. but why dont you guys listen huh ? we dont wana start a fight .. listen i wasnt the one to start it ... you guys were disscussing it first & seems to me that you were saying all wrong things about afgans .. so that why i jumped into it . did i use any bad words ? no but other people did but you didnt unsubscribe them .. why do you have these double standerds ? dont blame us then if something like 11 sep happens again thanks Faisal --- Bill Bradford wrote: > Okay, I unsubscribed you from the other list already > for not > stopping this discussion in the other list. Please > dont start > it up here with questions guaranteed to incite a > flamewar. > > Normally, "anything goes", but to me it looks like > you just > want to start a fight. > > I dont want to see any more responses to this > message. Ordinary > discussion is fine, but not when its sent with an > intention to > start a flamewar. > > BIll > > On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 02:46:04AM -0700, faisal > gillani wrote: > > Hello there ... > > I have a question for the Western poeple .. why > do > > you say so many things against taliban(muslims) > when > > they order women to cover them selfs & dont even > say > > anything to people in the far east who sells their > > children for sex ? > > Faisal > > (tell me if questions like this are not allowed > here ) > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 12:12:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:12:39 -0500 Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <20010925165631.66177.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010924083743.L17330@mrbill.net> <20010925165631.66177.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010925121239.B2460@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 09:56:31AM -0700, faisal gillani wrote: > dont blame us then if something like 11 sep happens > again Nice threat. Forwarded to Yahoo! abuse department. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 12:36:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:36:52 +0100 Subject: [geeks] XP is _nice_ In-Reply-To: <20010923161611.E2839@zilla.nu>; from ward@zilla.nu on Sun, Sep 23, 2001 at 04:16:11PM -0500 References: <20010923170228.5BD5811B66@ohno.mrbill.net> <3BADF170.7928.38ACC90@localhost> <20010923161611.E2839@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010925183650.D14986@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Sun, Sep 23, 2001 at 04:16:11PM -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > On Sun, Sep 23, 2001 at 02:28:00PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > > > Pah, I'd like to try it but it's far too much ca$h. And AFAIK it > > doesn't do Windows network file sharing which is essential to the > > way I work. > > You mean as a client or server? Server is just SAMBA, client access, > while available via Sharity, is coming standard in 10.1 (though Apple is > quickly running out of September days for the deadline). ObGeekJoke: September has an infinite number of days. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david The voices said it's a good day to clean my weapons From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 12:40:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:40:01 -0500 Subject: [geeks] XP is _nice_ In-Reply-To: <20010925183650.D14986@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> References: <20010923170228.5BD5811B66@ohno.mrbill.net> <3BADF170.7928.38ACC90@localhost> <20010923161611.E2839@zilla.nu> <20010925183650.D14986@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010925124001.D2460@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 06:36:52PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: > > You mean as a client or server? Server is just SAMBA, client access, > > while available via Sharity, is coming standard in 10.1 (though Apple is > > quickly running out of September days for the deadline). > ObGeekJoke: September has an infinite number of days. 10.1 is going to be available starting Saturday. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 13:24:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:24:34 -0500 Subject: [geeks] FS: 540-3966 9G HD in bracket Message-ID: <20010925132434.F2460@mrbill.net> I've got one Sun 540-3966 7200rpm 9G SCA HD (Seagate Cheetah) in spud bracket for sale. Email me if interested with offer; I dunno what these are worth nowdays. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 13:31:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:31:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] why ? References: <20010925165631.66177.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <036801c145f0$430c4630$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > Ok ... you unsubscribe me .. > but why dont you guys listen huh ? > we dont wana start a fight .. listen i wasnt the one > to start it ... you guys were disscussing it first & > seems to me that you were saying all wrong things > about afgans .. so that why i jumped into it . > did i use any bad words ? no but other people did but > you didnt unsubscribe them .. why do you have these > double standerds ? > dont blame us then if something like 11 sep happens > again > Simple reason Faisal - your comments seemed design, purposefully, to start a flame war. This list is run and attended by users who get along well, and even discuss things like vi vs. emacs without degrading to flame wars. Your comments also seem to support terrorists and terrorist activities. We don't take kindly to talk like that 'round here. I'll let you know, for reference only, that other users have been unsubscribed for different reasons. You're not being singled out. Mr Bill asked that the conversation be dropped - you tried to continue it. If you break the rules, bear the punishment. If you view them as double standards, fine. I don't think any of us are going to lose sleep over it. This list is an autocracy, run by Mr Bill and Amy - if you don't like, nobody's keeping you here. Abide by the rules, and you can stay. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 14:07:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:07:36 -0500 Subject: [geeks] FS: 540-3966 9G HD in bracket In-Reply-To: <20010925132434.F2460@mrbill.net> References: <20010925132434.F2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010925140736.H2460@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 01:24:34PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > I've got one Sun 540-3966 7200rpm 9G SCA HD (Seagate Cheetah) > in spud bracket for sale. Email me if interested with offer; > I dunno what these are worth nowdays. SOld. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 15:08:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 16:08:18 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Are Dave and Mike ok? In-Reply-To: <01092511003300.00723@two-time.twmaster.com> References: <003001c145cd$fe993430$6401a8c0@laboffice> <01092511003300.00723@two-time.twmaster.com> Message-ID: <20010925160818.A9067@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 10:59:14AM -0400, Mike Nicewonger wrote: > the tornado hit our town about 3/4 of a mile west of us. Not to wish you guys harm, but I'd love to see the insurance investigator review the inventory and damages. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 15:11:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:11:20 +0100 Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: <01b401c1453d$533ec9f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH>; from kurt@k-huhn.com on Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 05:10:17PM -0400 References: <01b401c1453d$533ec9f0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010925211119.A17216@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 05:10:17PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > > Any suggestions for a Palm compatible replacement? > > > > I went to a Palm V - mostly because I liked the looks. I'm very happy with > it - no complaints at all. The V is OK, the Vx is better if only because of the extra RAM. IME you really want those extra megabytes. See also my review of the m500 as compared to the Vx: http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/reviews/ Since writing that, I've got a memory card for the 500, so need to update the review. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation. -- Johnny Hart From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 15:14:25 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 16:14:25 -0400 Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <20010925122405.E2839@zilla.nu> References: <20010924083743.L17330@mrbill.net> <20010925165631.66177.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com> <20010925121239.B2460@mrbill.net> <20010925122405.E2839@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010925161425.C9067@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 12:24:05PM -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 12:12:39PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 09:56:31AM -0700, faisal gillani wrote: > > > dont blame us then if something like 11 sep happens > > > again > > > > Nice threat. Forwarded to Yahoo! abuse department. > > I really don't see that as a threat, more of a 'If you keep hitting your > head with a hammer, don't blame me if you crack your skull' type of thing. Except the real meaning is something more like "If you keep hitting your head with a hammer, don't blame me if my my friends shoot you." -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 15:23:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 16:23:05 -0400 Subject: [geeks] *DROOL* Message-ID: http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/sunfire15k/ From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 16:37:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:37:19 EDT Subject: [geeks] XP is _nice_ References: <20010925183650.D14986@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <01382173719.dave.10210@cca.org> david at cantrell.org.uk writes: >ObGeekJoke: September has an infinite number of days. Damn straight! -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- --------- "I prefer the ridiculous to the sublime." - James Chance --------- From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 17:07:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:07:46 +0100 Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! In-Reply-To: ; from pwargo@basenji.com on Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 07:59:22PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010925230744.A17932@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 07:59:22PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > Somebody came up with a new one: they used basenji.com to relay SPAM by > using pwargo at basenji.com as the From: address! I very much doubt that putting your address as the From: field would make your server magically start relaying. I'm guessing you just got lucky up till now that no-one raped your server. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H. L. Mencken From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 17:12:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:12:48 +0100 Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! In-Reply-To: ; from pwargo@basenji.com on Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 08:18:01PM -0700 References: <028d01c1456f$9282da20$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010925231247.B17932@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 08:18:01PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > I deny all SMTP from anywhere. However, if I'm on the road and need to send > > mail, I sometimes setup a temporary rule in sendmail to allow relaying from > > my IP. More often than not, though, I just use SSH into the mail server and > > use Mutt to read/send mail. > > Hard to do when I let other folks use basenji.com for email accounts.... Decline to service requests by default. Let anyone send through the server if they are sending to a valid_mailbox_or_forwarding_alias at yourserver. Let anyone send through the server if they are from a trusted IP**. * - or if they are sending to a domain for which you provide secondary MX; at least that's how you configger exim, I assume sendmail is similar. ** - usually machines on the local subnet and a few known-good addresses -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Considering the number of wheels Microsoft has found reason to invent, one never ceases to be baffled by the minuscule number whose shape even vaguely resembles a circle. -- anon, on Usenet From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 17:16:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:16:47 +0100 Subject: [geeks] AAAAAAAAGH! Spammers on the loose! In-Reply-To: <02a001c14573$04dc0c10$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH>; from kurt@k-huhn.com on Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 11:34:38PM -0400 References: <02a001c14573$04dc0c10$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010925231645.C17932@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 11:34:38PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > Hard to do when I let other folks use basenji.com for email accounts.... > > Yeah - that can be difficult. Do these other folks have static IPs? That > would be easy to restrict. However, it never is that easy. I have several users who use my server. They can only send mail through my server if they have their own static IP, otherwise they must use their ISP's smart-host or similar. They can, of course, *collect* their mail via POP or IMAP from anywhere they choose provided that they are appropriately authenticated. > I've heard of sites that setup mail so that a user *must* login via POP3 and > get mail before they will allow SMTP connections from that IP. Not sure how > to set this up though. POP-before-SMTP is a nasty kludge but it works. Just about. If you don't sneeze near it. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 17:18:28 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:18:28 -0500 Subject: [geeks] XP is _nice_ In-Reply-To: <20010925155825.P2839@zilla.nu> References: <20010923170228.5BD5811B66@ohno.mrbill.net> <3BADF170.7928.38ACC90@localhost> <20010923161611.E2839@zilla.nu> <20010925183650.D14986@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> <20010925124001.D2460@mrbill.net> <20010925155825.P2839@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010925171828.Q2460@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 03:58:25PM -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > > 10.1 is going to be available starting Saturday. > I heard today.. I hope it's today either way. They announced it today, wide availability is Saturday, when you can go to select retailers or Apple Stores and pick up the upgrade CD. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 17:32:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:32:27 -0500 Subject: [geeks] FT: Mint SunOS 4.1.3_U1 CD Message-ID: <20010925173227.V2460@mrbill.net> I've got a mint (still-shrinkwrapped) "Solaris 1.1.1 SunSoft Version B" (aka, SunOS 4.1.3_U1) CD here, that I dont need. Would like to trade for small 10baseT hub, decent brand (linksys, netgear, etc..) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 18:05:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:05:36 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] FT: Mint SunOS 4.1.3_U1 CD In-Reply-To: <20010925173227.V2460@mrbill.net> References: <20010925173227.V2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010925180536.Y2460@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 05:32:27PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > I've got a mint (still-shrinkwrapped) > "Solaris 1.1.1 SunSoft Version B" (aka, > SunOS 4.1.3_U1) CD here, that I dont need. Taken. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 18:35:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:35:48 +0100 Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <036801c145f0$430c4630$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH>; from kurt@k-huhn.com on Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 02:31:09PM -0400 References: <20010925165631.66177.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com> <036801c145f0$430c4630$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010926003547.I17932@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 02:31:09PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Simple reason Faisal - your comments seemed design, purposefully, to start a > flame war. True. > Your comments also seem to support terrorists and terrorist activities. Untrue. Or at least, untrue from where I'm sitting. But I've stated my views before and I'm not going to state them again. *threadplonk* -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Educating this luser would be something to frustrate even the unflappable Yoda and make him jam a lightsaber up his arse while screaming "praise evil, the Dark Side is your friend!". -- Derek Balling, in the Monastery From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 19:52:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:52:12 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <20010926003547.I17932@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, David Cantrell wrote: > Untrue. Or at least, untrue from where I'm sitting. But I've stated my > views before and I'm not going to state them again. Um, you don't like Def Leppard? You wouldn't listen to them if it would (insert circumstances)? :) ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 20:44:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:44:34 -0400 Subject: [geeks] why ? References: Message-ID: <043801c1462c$ced0f2b0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, David Cantrell wrote: > > Untrue. Or at least, untrue from where I'm sitting. But I've stated my > > views before and I'm not going to state them again. > > Um, you don't like Def Leppard? You wouldn't listen to them if it would > (insert circumstances)? > hmmm. I also dislike Def Leppard - but got a totally different take on Faisal's comments than Dave. Looking at it again (aaagh, my eyes!) it seems as if it could have been read both ways. Dunno, I guess it depends on your mindset as you're reading it. I would submit, though, that the author did not intend it that way. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 20:55:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Dog fights (Was: Re: [nlug] Re: Microsoft Licensing C hanges...effective October 2001) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Fogg, James wrote: > pees too, unfortunately). I know it sounds stupid, but it worked like a > charm. Professional dog trainers know this technique. Its used for > hyper-alpha headstrong dogs. It basically communicates in their language. 'S how I trained Keegan, using the "dominant down". -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 21:09:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: <20010925211119.A17216@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, David Cantrell wrote: > The V is OK, the Vx is better if only because of the extra RAM. IME you > really want those extra megabytes. See also my review of the m500 as > compared to the Vx: > http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/reviews/ When my IIIc died, I got a handspring visor prism. The screen is great (and active matrix, which the new 505 isn't!), and with the addition of a springboard module that takes smartmedia, I now have 40M on my prism. Plans are underway to upgrade to 136M. GREAT for storing stuff like install notes for Sun Fire 15K's (Yay! I can say the name!) and the like. Also books, photos, movies... -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 21:17:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:17:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] *DROOL* In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Big Endian wrote: > http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/sunfire15k/ Yep, it's cool. Fast, too. -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 21:20:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 25 Sep 2001 19:20:58 -0700 Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <863d5aae0l.fsf@koyote.cx> the prism is nice. I'd like it better if there were easier ways to store and transfer files. (A pdf to paklmtext converter would be nice, too) support for tarballs.....*sigh* From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 21:22:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:22:22 EDT Subject: [geeks] why ? References: Message-ID: <01382222222.dave.12125@cca.org> kris at catonic.net writes: >On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, David Cantrell wrote: >> Untrue. Or at least, untrue from where I'm sitting. But I've stated my >> views before and I'm not going to state them again. >Um, you don't like Def Leppard? You wouldn't listen to them if it would >(insert circumstances)? I like to think that mobalizing against Def Leppard can bring us together in unity and make all Americans realize that all of our various differences are trivial when compared to important things, like hating bad 80s music. On the other hand, I'm having a hard time with all this "Blame Foreigner" talk I've been hearing on the street corner. Sure, Foreigner suck too, but I can't believe *they're* behind the WTC destruction! Please people, let's be rational and not jump to unfounded accusations before the data is in! -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- ------------------------ I like making new friends. ------------------------ -- I make them out of clay and bring them to life with a blood sacrifice. -- From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 21:35:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:35:01 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Dog fights (Was: Re: [nlug] Re: Microsoft Licensing C hanges...effective October 2001) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010925213501.H2460@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 06:55:11PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > 'S how I trained Keegan, using the "dominant down". > -P Had to do it that way with Sam, the St. Bernard I had for three years... finally one day, rolled him over on his back, growled, and put my teeth on his neck. He behaved from then on. (and with a 175 lb dog... this was "entertaining" according to amy) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 21:37:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:37:27 -0500 Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: References: <20010925211119.A17216@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010925213727.I2460@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 07:09:47PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > GREAT for storing stuff like > install notes for Sun Fire 15K's (Yay! I can say the name!) and the like. Its been all over the past two releases of Solaris 8, I dunno why they were so secretive. 8-) Lessee... $ cat /etc/release Solaris 8 4/01 s28s_u4wos_08 SPARC Copyright 2001 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Assembled 01 March 2001 $ cd /usr/platform $ ls SUNW,Sun-Blade-100 SUNW,Ultra-5_10 SUNW,Sun-Blade-1000 SUNW,Ultra-60 SUNW,Sun-Fire SUNW,Ultra-80 SUNW,Sun-Fire-15000 SUNW,Ultra-Enterprise ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SUNW,Sun-Fire-280R SUNW,Ultra-Enterprise-10000 SUNW,Sun-Fire-880 sun4d SUNW,Ultra-1 sun4m SUNW,Ultra-2 sun4u SUNW,Ultra-250 sun4u-us3 SUNW,Ultra-30 sun4us SUNW,Ultra-4 (BTW, wtf exactly is Ultra-4, what systems map to that?) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 21:38:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:38:06 -0500 Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <01382222222.dave.12125@cca.org> References: <01382222222.dave.12125@cca.org> Message-ID: <20010925213806.J2460@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 10:22:22PM -0400, dave at cca.org wrote: > On the other hand, I'm having a hard time with all this "Blame Foreigner" > talk I've been hearing on the street corner. Sure, Foreigner suck too, > but I can't believe *they're* behind the WTC destruction! Please people, > let's be rational and not jump to unfounded accusations before the data > is in! I found it funny that "Killing an Arab" by the Cure *wasnt* on the ClearChannel "banned music" list. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 21:43:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: <863d5aae0l.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: There is Acrobat Reader for palm... -P ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." On 25 Sep 2001 koyote at koyote.cx wrote: > the prism is nice. > > I'd like it better if there were easier ways to store and transfer files. > > (A pdf to paklmtext converter would be nice, too) > > support for tarballs.....*sigh* > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 21:51:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:51:15 EDT Subject: [geeks] why ? References: <20010925213806.J2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <01382225115.dave.10416@cca.org> mrbill at mrbill.net writes: >I found it funny that "Killing an Arab" by the Cure *wasnt* on the >ClearChannel "banned music" list. That list was just bizarre. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- ------------------------ I like making new friends. ------------------------ -- I make them out of clay and bring them to life with a blood sacrifice. -- From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 21:53:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: <20010925213727.I2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 07:09:47PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > > GREAT for storing stuff like > > install notes for Sun Fire 15K's (Yay! I can say the name!) and the like. > > Its been all over the past two releases of Solaris 8, I dunno why they > were so secretive. 8-) Yeah, I know... But being a good employee, I do what my company asks and not talk about it before. (Especially since I work where they are designed.) I may find it silly at times, but I signed a paper agreeing to certain rules, so I follow them. It bugs me when somebody leaks stuff, not only because they went back on their word, but Sun is still a decent company to work for. I get treated professionally, they took great care of me after my accident, and Scott really does read all of his Emails. Yeah, we have our share of problems, but I wish I had started here many years ago. -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 21:57:10 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:57:10 -0500 Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: References: <20010925213727.I2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010925215709.O2460@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 07:53:15PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > Yeah, I know... But being a good employee, I do what my company asks and > not talk about it before. (Especially since I work where they are > designed.) I may find it silly at times, but I signed a paper agreeing to > certain rules, so I follow them. It bugs me when somebody leaks stuff, > not only because they went back on their word, but Sun is still a decent > company to work for. Thats one reason why I took the "RUMORS" stuff off the page(s) and got rid of the mailing list - I got tired of people sending me secret stuff that I couldnt publish. No desire to repeat the first run-in with the Sun legal team (which was resolved quickly and to great satisfaction, I might add; not only did things get settled, but I gained some "official" contacts at Sun who remain good friends to this day). > I get treated professionally, they took great care > of me after my accident, and Scott really does read all of his Emails. He does? Woah, time to polish up that resume! 8-) > Yeah, we have our share of problems, but I wish I had started here many > years ago. I had a chance to go in and talk to the guys here in Austin last December, but the day that I was supposed to do that, I ended up having emergency wisdom tooth surgery. 8-( Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 22:00:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:00:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] why ? References: <01382222222.dave.12125@cca.org> Message-ID: <046801c14637$62666d70$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > I like to think that mobalizing against Def Leppard can bring us > together in unity and make all Americans realize that all of our > various differences are trivial when compared to important things, like > hating bad 80s music. > Agreed. But we should recognize good music from the 80's. The Clash, The Smiths, PIL, The Pixies, The Pogues, The Specials, Beastie Boys, The Cure, Burning Spear, are all what I would consider good music. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 22:02:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:02:55 -0500 Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <046801c14637$62666d70$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <01382222222.dave.12125@cca.org> <046801c14637$62666d70$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010925220255.R2460@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 11:00:16PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Agreed. But we should recognize good music from the 80's. The Clash, The > Smiths, PIL, The Pixies, The Pogues, The Specials, Beastie Boys, The Cure, > Burning Spear, are all what I would consider good music. Dont forget Sisters of Mercy and Joy Division. I'm not "goth" anymore, but I still listen to them. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 22:03:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: <20010925215656.A32567@zilla.nu> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 07:53:15PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > > > Yeah, we have our share of problems, but I wish I had started here many > > years ago. > > Is it true that folks can bring their dogs to work? Supposedly in the bay area. Things are a little weird in San Diego, since our group/function came from non-sun background. (Celerity->Floating Point Systems->Cray->SGI->Sun) I have brought Keegan and Spritzer in a couple of times, though. Scotty is a true dog person. Before I moved to Sun, I had the opportunity to meet his next-door neighbor (old friend of our CEO). He said Scott was very cool, hardly the "hard-driven" CEO type. -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 22:04:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:04:18 -0500 Subject: [geeks] *ping* In-Reply-To: References: <20010925215656.A32567@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010925220418.S2460@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 08:03:07PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > Scotty is a true dog person. Before I moved to Sun, I had the opportunity > to meet his next-door neighbor (old friend of our CEO). He said Scott was > very cool, hardly the "hard-driven" CEO type. I remember that when I had the trouble with Sun Legal, when a couple people emailed Scott directly, he replied to them and said "I'll look into this". That impressed me more than anything else, that the CEO of a company would take the time (or at least enough time to tell someone else to find out and give him a sitrep) to read email from random people about some dorky little web site. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 22:12:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 03:12:40 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <20010925220255.R2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > Dont forget Sisters of Mercy and Joy Division. I'm not "goth" anymore, but > I still listen to them. Guys, Keep the list o' great and influential bands coming. I've been on an 80s kick lately and I'm interested in hearing the bands that inspired some of the more clueful "musicians" of today. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 22:22:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 25 Sep 2001 20:22:38 -0700 Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <20010925220255.R2460@mrbill.net> References: <01382222222.dave.12125@cca.org> <046801c14637$62666d70$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010925220255.R2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <86vgi68wld.fsf@koyote.cx> >Dont forget Sisters of Mercy and Joy Division. I'm not "goth" anymore, but >I still listen to them. Now now. SoM claims to be a rock and roll band. they've always resisted being called goth. :) -C From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 22:24:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:24:39 EDT Subject: [geeks] why ? References: <046801c14637$62666d70$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <01382232439.dave.9230@cca.org> kurt at k-huhn.com writes: >> I like to think that mobalizing against Def Leppard can bring us >> together in unity and make all Americans realize that all of our >> various differences are trivial when compared to important things, like >> hating bad 80s music. >Agreed. But we should recognize good music from the 80's. The Clash, The >Smiths, PIL, The Pixies, The Pogues, The Specials, Beastie Boys, The Cure, >Burning Spear, are all what I would consider good music. I can't think of much 80s stuff I like actually... it's mostly a dark ages period of misused synthesizers between the heavy/grungy 70s stuff (Cooper, Sabbath, Stooges, Dolls) and the metal (Slayer) & punk (Born Against, dropdead, The Locust, etc) revivals of the 90s. PIL I respect but I'm not very familiar with. The Clash I think did their best work earlier. The Specials were good. I actually saw Burning Spear open for The Clash on the horrible we-just-discovered-girls tour. (The one with "Should I stay or should I go". Yeah, real political guys, thanks.) Oh, I know! New wave was 80s. B52s, Adam Ant, The Cars. Good stuff. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- ------------------------ I like making new friends. ------------------------ -- I make them out of clay and bring them to life with a blood sacrifice. -- From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 22:24:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:24:43 EDT Subject: [geeks] why ? References: <20010925220255.R2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <01382232443.dave.9253@cca.org> mrbill at mrbill.net writes: >Dont forget Sisters of Mercy and Joy Division. I'm not "goth" anymore, but >I still listen to them. I think the closest I get to goth is Alien Sex Fiend or maybe early Nina Hagen. Goth comix are better than goth music. Squeeee! -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- ------------------------ I like making new friends. ------------------------ -- I make them out of clay and bring them to life with a blood sacrifice. -- From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 22:42:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 25 Sep 2001 20:42:57 -0700 Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <01382232439.dave.9230@cca.org> References: <046801c14637$62666d70$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <01382232439.dave.9230@cca.org> Message-ID: <86r8su8vni.fsf@koyote.cx> >>Agreed. But we should recognize good music from the 80's. The Clash, The >>Smiths, PIL, The Pixies, The Pogues, The Specials, Beastie Boys, The Cure, >>Burning Spear, are all what I would consider good music. >I can't think of much 80s stuff I like actually... it's mostly a dark >ages period of misused synthesizers between the heavy/grungy 70s stuff >(Cooper, Sabbath, Stooges, Dolls) and the metal (Slayer) & punk (Born >Against, dropdead, The Locust, etc) revivals of the 90s. Iron Maiden? you aren't forgetting earlier maiden? for that matter, the first stages of mettalica were good. Was SLF 70's or 80's? good stuff, anyway. lots of good Queen from the 80's. Let's see what Else I can add. Oingo Boingo had some of their best work in the 80's, though no one seems to know anything about the Danny except one stupid song (weird science). Look into albums like "only a lad". Berlin's pre top gun stuff was good. From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 22:51:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:51:52 -0500 Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <86r8su8vni.fsf@koyote.cx> References: <046801c14637$62666d70$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <01382232439.dave.9230@cca.org> <86r8su8vni.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <20010925225152.V2460@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 08:42:57PM -0700, koyote at koyote.cx wrote: > Iron Maiden? you aren't forgetting earlier maiden? Bronze Maiden? 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 22:54:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:54:49 -0500 Subject: [geeks] mac keyboard mapping Message-ID: <20010925225449.X2460@mrbill.net> The ONLY thing I dont like about the mac is that apple-V is paste as opposed to shift-insert. Anybody know how I can remap shift-insert to send the same keycode as apple-v? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Sep 25 23:55:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 25 Sep 2001 21:55:58 -0700 Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <20010925225152.V2460@mrbill.net> References: <046801c14637$62666d70$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <01382232439.dave.9230@cca.org> <86r8su8vni.fsf@koyote.cx> <20010925225152.V2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <86n13i8s9t.fsf@koyote.cx> >Bronze Maiden? perhaps we should do a cover band. only the really old stuff from before dickinson. neolithic maiden From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 00:05:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:05:32 -0500 Subject: [geeks] new addition: sunmanagers search engine Message-ID: <20010926000532.B2460@mrbill.net> As a lot of you know, I also host the Sun Managers mailing list. (www.sunmanagers.org). Tonight I added a search engine, see http://search.sunmanagers.org. If that proves worthy and works well, I'll be adding the same thing for rescue, geeks, and sunhelp, etc. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 00:19:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:19:55 -0500 Subject: [geeks] mac keyboard mapping In-Reply-To: References: <20010925225449.X2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010926001955.I2460@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 10:20:32PM -0700, Peter L. Wargo wrote: > Just get used to it! (Hell, command-v has been paste since 1984!) Found myself trying to do alt-v at work today to paste.. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 00:20:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] mac keyboard mapping In-Reply-To: <20010925225449.X2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > The ONLY thing I dont like about the mac is that apple-V is paste > as opposed to shift-insert. Anybody know how I can remap shift-insert > to send the same keycode as apple-v? Just get used to it! (Hell, command-v has been paste since 1984!) -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 00:39:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:39:22 -0500 Subject: [geeks] converting mbox spools to html-web-pages? Message-ID: <20010926003922.O2460@mrbill.net> Anybody got a suggestion for a program that I can use on some mbox spools to make indexed web pages? I was looking for pipermail (which is what postfix uses) but I cant find it anywhere anymore... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 00:43:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:43:36 -0500 Subject: [geeks] converting mbox spools to html-web-pages? In-Reply-To: <20010926003922.O2460@mrbill.net> References: <20010926003922.O2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010926004336.P2460@mrbill.net> On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 12:39:22AM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody got a suggestion for a program that I can use on > some mbox spools to make indexed web pages? I was looking > for pipermail (which is what postfix uses) but I cant find it > anywhere anymore... Nevermind. http://www.hypermail.org. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 05:01:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 06:01:18 -0400 Subject: [geeks] PDF t Palm conversion... References: <863d5aae0l.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <002101c14672$308f5380$0301a8c0@kensportege> A PDF to Palm converter would really only be a PDF text extraction tool - it would be pointless to try and retain any format info, as the display is ony what 160 pixels square? You would spend all your time sliding your tiny display over a virtual 8 1/2" x 11" page... Why do you want support for tarballs? There are easier ways to physically transfer 1-8 Meg files between machines, esp. if you have to carry a hotsynch cable with you and install software on each machine you want to communicate with... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] *ping* > the prism is nice. > > I'd like it better if there were easier ways to store and transfer files. > > (A pdf to paklmtext converter would be nice, too) > > support for tarballs.....*sigh* _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 07:34:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:34:49 -0400 Subject: [geeks] *ping* References: Message-ID: <048101c14687$a639a710$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > Is it true that folks can bring their dogs to work? > > Supposedly in the bay area. Things are a little weird in San Diego, since > our group/function came from non-sun background. (Celerity->Floating Point > Systems->Cray->SGI->Sun) > Depends on the company - I've worked at places in the Bay Area where dogs were simply not allowed. However, we have folks that bring their dogs to in to Bungo regularly, we're based in Providence, RI. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 11:35:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:35:05 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] PDF t Palm conversion... In-Reply-To: <002101c14672$308f5380$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > Why do you want support for tarballs? There are easier ways to physically > transfer 1-8 Meg files between machines, esp. if you have to carry a > hotsynch cable with you and install software on each machine you want to > communicate with... Not to mention wearing out your flash cells, which have a finite life. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 15:20:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:20:01 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. Message-ID: <32793E399570D511842A0002B35B4AD923BEB7@ICTI_MAIL> I pulled out my copy of the soundtrack to the movie "Car Wash"... My office mate (a college intern) *never heard* of the movie - it is from all the way back to 1976! George Carlin, Richard Pryor, Prof. Irwin Corey... I feel *old* - am I alone in appreciating this album? (I also like "Repo Man" and "Heavy Metal" soundtracks too!) Ken From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 15:21:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Reagen B. Ward) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:21:19 -0500 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s..j In-Reply-To: <32793E399570D511842A0002B35B4AD923BEB7@ICTI_MAIL>; from Ken.Hansen@ICTI-USA.com on Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 04:20:01PM -0400 References: <32793E399570D511842A0002B35B4AD923BEB7@ICTI_MAIL> Message-ID: <20010926152119.M4713@rs.rackshack.net> Ken Hansen wrote: > I feel *old* - am I alone in appreciating this album? I absolutely love the great theme by Rose Royce. > (I also like "Repo Man" and "Heavy Metal" soundtracks too!) Repo Man had no choice but to be great, as the movie was produced by Mike Nesmith. Ever see 'The Van?' Reagen From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 16:35:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:35:08 -0500 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s..j In-Reply-To: <20010926152119.M4713@rs.rackshack.net> References: <32793E399570D511842A0002B35B4AD923BEB7@ICTI_MAIL> <20010926152119.M4713@rs.rackshack.net> Message-ID: <20010926163508.A2460@mrbill.net> On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 03:21:19PM -0500, Reagen B. Ward wrote: > Repo Man had no choice but to be great, as the movie was produced by Mike > Nesmith. > Ever see 'The Van?' Then there was the movie about the tanker truck chasing a guy across the desert.. I forget the title, but I finally saw it (all the way through) a few months ago. Twisted. Ah. "Duel": http://us.imdb.com/Title?0067023 Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 16:37:36 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Well said. Message-ID: Article says it all: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/21873.html ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 16:51:25 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:51:25 -0700 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s..j Message-ID: Got the tape. 1st speilberg film. Still in college I believe. whats amazing is that it uses formula suspense for all its worth, yet it works. > Ah. "Duel": > > http://us.imdb.com/Title?0067023 > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 17:37:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s..j In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010926223747.96521.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com> IIRC, you can actually see speilberg sitting in the back seat in one shot (like in the rearview mirror)! I think this was his first *real* film, after he graduated, but I could be wrong... Didn't he also do some TV? Ken --- "Fogg, James" wrote: > Got the tape. > > 1st speilberg film. Still in college I believe. > > whats amazing is that it uses formula suspense for > all its worth, yet it > works. > > > Ah. "Duel": > > > > http://us.imdb.com/Title?0067023 > > > > Bill > > > > -- > > Bill Bradford > > mrbill at mrbill.net > > Austin, TX > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 17:42:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s..j In-Reply-To: <20010926152119.M4713@rs.rackshack.net> Message-ID: <20010926224209.52347.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> No - Repo Man was where I learned the value of continuity - in the beginning of the film, "Otto" helps Dean stockwell "get (his) wife's car out of thei bad area." In the ensuing chase, watch the car "Otto" is in, it goes from four door to two door back to four door as the chase progresses. "Nice friends." "Thanks, I made 'em myself." "Put it on a plate, it'll taste better" "No thanks mom, this couldn't taste any better." "We sent all your college money to pay for bibles, in El Salvador." "What about me?" Great film, great sound track ("Let's have a war!")... Ken --- "Reagen B. Ward" wrote: > Ken Hansen wrote: > > > I feel *old* - am I alone in appreciating this > album? > > I absolutely love the great theme by Rose Royce. > > > (I also like "Repo Man" and "Heavy Metal" > soundtracks too!) > > Repo Man had no choice but to be great, as the movie > was produced by Mike > Nesmith. > > Ever see 'The Van?' > > Reagen > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 17:49:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:49:14 -0500 Subject: [geeks] greg woods, email me Message-ID: <20010926174914.I2460@mrbill.net> greg woods - email me; I tried to mail you and got "relaying denied".. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 18:36:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 18:36:04 -0500 Subject: [geeks] AUI Networks In-Reply-To: <000901c146e4$66c26bf0$6401a8c0@laboffice> References: <000901c146e4$66c26bf0$6401a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: <20010926183604.J2460@mrbill.net> On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 07:38:41PM -0400, Zach Malone wrote: > Hello, > I recently discovered that my AUI based machines were starting to > outnumber my 100bT boxes, and that therefore, I ought to look into setting > up a network for them, as the number of 10bT - AUI connectors I am needing > is getting ridiculous. Anyhow, I have been unable to figure out exactly > what sort of network these use, I have not found any hubs/switches that use > AUI ports, and I have also been unable to dig up the cables I would expect > to find if they used a ring arrangement. Can anyone help me out here and > explain how an AUI network is set up, and what sorts of parts I should look > for? > Zach I have a 8 or 12-port (its not in here right now) DEC "hub" that you can have... remind me this weekend. (its all AUI ports.. so you'd just need the DB15 cables, and then one transceiver to connect it to your 10/100baseT network..) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 18:38:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:38:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] AUI Networks Message-ID: <000901c146e4$66c26bf0$6401a8c0@laboffice> Hello, I recently discovered that my AUI based machines were starting to outnumber my 100bT boxes, and that therefore, I ought to look into setting up a network for them, as the number of 10bT - AUI connectors I am needing is getting ridiculous. Anyhow, I have been unable to figure out exactly what sort of network these use, I have not found any hubs/switches that use AUI ports, and I have also been unable to dig up the cables I would expect to find if they used a ring arrangement. Can anyone help me out here and explain how an AUI network is set up, and what sorts of parts I should look for? Zach From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 18:46:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 00:46:38 +0100 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s..j References: <32793E399570D511842A0002B35B4AD923BEB7@ICTI_MAIL> <20010926152119.M4713@rs.rackshack.net> Message-ID: <009401c146e5$8f8c8290$0301a8c0@chimp> From: "Reagen B. Ward" > Ken Hansen wrote: > > > I feel *old* - am I alone in appreciating this album? > > I absolutely love the great theme by Rose Royce. > > > (I also like "Repo Man" and "Heavy Metal" soundtracks too!) > > Repo Man had no choice but to be great, as the movie was produced by Mike > Nesmith. > > Ever see 'The Van?' Repo Man the Alex Cox film? IIRC? Damn good. The Van, if you're referring to the film production of the Roddy Doyle book, is also damn good. As is The Commitments. On a cultural note, I've just been to watch a friend sing in the choir in Leos Janacek's Glagolitic Mass (and some Dvorak). Mental, crazy stuff. It's like Philip Glass crossed with, errr, the theme tune from the League of Gentlemen (not sure if you US people have caught this show yet). I feel all cultured and posh now. Will. PS Judging by the IMDB we're talking about different "Vans". :) From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 19:00:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 20:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] AUI Networks In-Reply-To: <000901c146e4$66c26bf0$6401a8c0@laboffice> References: <000901c146e4$66c26bf0$6401a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: <20010927000023.72EEFEC@proven.weird.com> [ On Wednesday, September 26, 2001 at 19:38:41 (-0400), Zach Malone wrote: ] > Subject: [geeks] AUI Networks > > I recently discovered that my AUI based machines were starting to > outnumber my 100bT boxes, and that therefore, I ought to look into setting > up a network for them, as the number of 10bT - AUI connectors I am needing > is getting ridiculous. Anyhow, I have been unable to figure out exactly > what sort of network these use, I have not found any hubs/switches that use > AUI ports, and I have also been unable to dig up the cables I would expect > to find if they used a ring arrangement. Can anyone help me out here and > explain how an AUI network is set up, and what sorts of parts I should look > for? Basically "AUI" (attachment unit interface) is just the electrical interface specification to connect a transceiver to an Ethernet chip. http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/779/smbiz/service/knowledge/pinouts/aui.htm There are such things as AUI MAUs (multiple attachment units), but you're almost infinitely better off sticking with individual transceivers, especially if you already have an investment in UTP Ethernet components. 10baseT AUI trancievers are a dime a dozen from surplus dealers now that most companies are moving from 10baseT to 100baseT. (well maybe $1-$2 each... :-) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 19:08:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 20:08:40 -0400 Subject: [geeks] AUI Networks References: <000901c146e4$66c26bf0$6401a8c0@laboffice> <20010927000023.72EEFEC@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <000b01c146e8$91c1d1c0$6401a8c0@laboffice> > There are such things as AUI MAUs (multiple attachment units), but > you're almost infinitely better off sticking with individual > transceivers, especially if you already have an investment in UTP > Ethernet components. This is to hook up a bunch of pizza boxes that are stacked on my desk, and the cabling is a mess already, I would prefer to simplify things if at all possible. Thanks for the info though. Zach From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 19:15:28 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 20:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] AUI Networks In-Reply-To: <20010927000023.72EEFEC@proven.weird.com> References: <000901c146e4$66c26bf0$6401a8c0@laboffice> <20010927000023.72EEFEC@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20010927001528.D0B5CEC@proven.weird.com> [ On Wednesday, September 26, 2001 at 20:00:23 (-0400), Greg A. Woods wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] AUI Networks > > There are such things as AUI MAUs (multiple attachment units), but > you're almost infinitely better off sticking with individual > transceivers, especially if you already have an investment in UTP > Ethernet components. grrr..... sorry I've made a mistake there.... "MAU" is "media attachment unit" A tranciever is a MAU, for example. What I meant to say was there are multi-port MAUs. I have an Allied-Telesis CentreCOM 8-port MAU, for example. The reason I recommend staying away from them is that they're not lot more reliable than an individual tranciever and when one breaks you've got N machines cut off the net instead of one.... :-) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 19:41:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 20:41:44 EDT Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s..j References: <009401c146e5$8f8c8290$0301a8c0@chimp> Message-ID: <01383204144.dave.5988@cca.org> wmcdonald at orctel.co.uk writes: >Repo Man the Alex Cox film? IIRC? Damn good. Repo Man is killer, especially on repeat viewings. ("Food") My favourite punk movie is "Suburbia" (the 1980s film about squatter punks, not the 90s film about mall-rats). The best part: no professional actors, only punks off the street. Very real. (Flea from the Chilli Peppers plays a main character.) >The Van, if you're referring to the film production of the Roddy Doyle book, >is also damn good. As is The Commitments. The Commitments - is that the one about the guys attempting to put together an Irish blues band, they begin to get good then fall apart with infighting? That's a great movie, if it's the one I'm thinking of. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- ------------------------ I like making new friends. ------------------------ -- I make them out of clay and bring them to life with a blood sacrifice. -- From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 20:11:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 21:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] AUI Networks In-Reply-To: <000b01c146e8$91c1d1c0$6401a8c0@laboffice> References: <000901c146e4$66c26bf0$6401a8c0@laboffice> <20010927000023.72EEFEC@proven.weird.com> <000b01c146e8$91c1d1c0$6401a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: <20010927011159.D7483EC@proven.weird.com> [ On Wednesday, September 26, 2001 at 20:08:40 (-0400), Zach Malone wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] AUI Networks > > > There are such things as AUI MAUs (multiple attachment units), but > > you're almost infinitely better off sticking with individual > > transceivers, especially if you already have an investment in UTP > > Ethernet components. > This is to hook up a bunch of pizza boxes that are stacked on my desk, and > the cabling is a mess already, I would prefer to simplify things if at all > possible. Thanks for the info though. You're going to have one Ethernet cable per box, right? Would you rather have a heavy shielded 15-conductor AUI cable, or a CAT-3 cable? -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 20:58:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 20:58:44 -0500 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" Message-ID: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> I like this show more than any other Star Trek I've ever seen. Its great without being geeky, and gritty enough to not seem like a morals play (e.g., ST:TNG). I'm looking forward to next week. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 21:16:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (D.A. Muran-de Assereto) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:16:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: And the Vulcan is a serious babe, too. :) Dave Muran-de Assereto > -----Original Message----- > From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf > Of Bill Bradford > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 21:59 > To: geeks at mrbill.net > Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" > > > I like this show more than any other Star Trek I've ever seen. > Its great without being geeky, and gritty enough to not seem like > a morals play (e.g., ST:TNG). > > I'm looking forward to next week. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 21:38:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: HEY! Re: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: Don't get carried away! Us Left-coasters are not there yet.... -P ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > I like this show more than any other Star Trek I've ever seen. > Its great without being geeky, and gritty enough to not seem like > a morals play (e.g., ST:TNG). > > I'm looking forward to next week. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 21:38:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: HEY! Re: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: Don't get carried away! Us Left-coasters are not there yet.... -P ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > I like this show more than any other Star Trek I've ever seen. > Its great without being geeky, and gritty enough to not seem like > a morals play (e.g., ST:TNG). > > I'm looking forward to next week. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 21:45:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:45:53 -0400 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" References: Message-ID: <001501c146fe$875e8280$6401a8c0@laboffice> At least they didn't decide to put her in a corset (*cough* 7 of 9 *cough*). It looks substantially better then Voyager, possibly even attaining the level of TNG, though that would surprise me. Maybe Rick Berman has finally learned how to set up a halfway decent show. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "D.A. Muran-de Assereto" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 10:16 PM Subject: RE: [geeks] "Enterprise" > And the Vulcan is a serious babe, too. :) > > Dave Muran-de Assereto > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf > > Of Bill Bradford > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 21:59 > > To: geeks at mrbill.net > > Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" > > > > > > I like this show more than any other Star Trek I've ever seen. > > Its great without being geeky, and gritty enough to not seem like > > a morals play (e.g., ST:TNG). > > > > I'm looking forward to next week. > > > > Bill > > > > -- > > Bill Bradford > > mrbill at mrbill.net > > Austin, TX > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 21:51:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:51:32 -0400 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <065601c146ff$53a6a700$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > I like this show more than any other Star Trek I've ever seen. > Its great without being geeky, and gritty enough to not seem like > a morals play (e.g., ST:TNG). > > I'm looking forward to next week. > PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: No spoilers - I elected to miss Enterprise tonight in order to watch Junkyard Wars. Enterprise is being replayed on Sunday night here, so I'll see it then. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 22:04:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 20:04:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <065601c146ff$53a6a700$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: > > No spoilers - I elected to miss Enterprise tonight in order to watch > Junkyard Wars. Enterprise is being replayed on Sunday night here, so I'll > see it then. Ya, as it turns out we missed it - both UPN channels we get on the dish are not pacific time - it was on from 5-7 tonight, so we are watching ti sunday. -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 22:23:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:23:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <065601c146ff$53a6a700$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> <065601c146ff$53a6a700$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010927032330.419C5EC@proven.weird.com> [ On Wednesday, September 26, 2001 at 22:51:32 (-0400), Kurt Huhn wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] "Enterprise" > > PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: > > No spoilers - I elected to miss Enterprise tonight in order to watch > Junkyard Wars. Enterprise is being replayed on Sunday night here, so I'll > see it then. I thought everyone who watched TV would be more than accustomed to "spoilers" by now -- you don't think there are really any important plot twists or anything that you won't get the full effect of unless you see it first-hand do you? :-) (I personally haven't yet decided if I'll bother ever watching it, so the more spoilers I hear, the better! :-) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 22:35:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:35:55 -0500 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <001501c146fe$875e8280$6401a8c0@laboffice> References: <001501c146fe$875e8280$6401a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: <20010926223555.M2460@mrbill.net> On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 10:45:53PM -0400, Zach Malone wrote: > At least they didn't decide to put her in a corset (*cough* 7 of 9 *cough*). > It looks substantially better then Voyager, possibly even attaining the > level of TNG, though that would surprise me. Maybe Rick Berman has finally > learned how to set up a halfway decent show. Level of TNG? TNG was nothing but a morality play every episode. This is nice and gritty. I like it. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 22:37:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:37:53 -0500 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <065601c146ff$53a6a700$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> <065601c146ff$53a6a700$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010926223753.N2460@mrbill.net> On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 10:51:32PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: > No spoilers - I elected to miss Enterprise tonight in order to watch > Junkyard Wars. Enterprise is being replayed on Sunday night here, so I'll > see it then. > Kurt WHY? Watch Enterprise, then watch JW when they repeat it 2 hours later like all the TLC/Discovery shows.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 22:48:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 03:48:05 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] AUI Networks In-Reply-To: <20010926183604.J2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > I have a 8 or 12-port (its not in here right now) DEC "hub" that you can > have... remind me this weekend. (its all AUI ports.. so you'd just need > the DB15 cables, and then one transceiver to connect it to your 10/100baseT > network..) I also have a 8-port AUI-style DEC hub. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 22:53:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 03:53:27 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <20010926223555.M2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > Level of TNG? TNG was nothing but a morality play every episode. This is > nice and gritty. I like it. How come I never noticed this? Probably because I grew up watching TNG (found the tape to the other day where I'd taped The Last Episode Ever of TNG). Wadn't bad; Didn't like That Thing That That Vulcan Did To The Crew. Did not expect to see that much skin in two minutes tho. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 23:05:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:05:13 -0500 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <20010927032330.419C5EC@proven.weird.com> References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> <065601c146ff$53a6a700$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010927032330.419C5EC@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <193109103704.20010926230513@crosswinds.net> GAW> [ On Wednesday, September 26, 2001 at 22:51:32 (-0400), Kurt Huhn wrote: ] >> Subject: Re: [geeks] "Enterprise" >> >> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: >> >> No spoilers - I elected to miss Enterprise tonight in order to watch >> Junkyard Wars. Enterprise is being replayed on Sunday night here, so I'll >> see it then. GAW> I thought everyone who watched TV would be more than accustomed to GAW> "spoilers" by now -- you don't think there are really any important plot GAW> twists or anything that you won't get the full effect of unless you see GAW> it first-hand do you? :-) GAW> (I personally haven't yet decided if I'll bother ever watching it, so GAW> the more spoilers I hear, the better! :-) I only have one thing to say - wrong theme music. Period. Everything else I give one season where I don't criticize like I do any new show. Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 23:06:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:06:11 -0500 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <000901c14709$e5c7aa30$6401a8c0@laboffice> References: <001501c146fe$875e8280$6401a8c0@laboffice> <20010926223555.M2460@mrbill.net> <000901c14709$e5c7aa30$6401a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: <20010926230609.O2460@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 12:07:16AM -0400, Zach Malone wrote: > So what do you like outside of the most recent series? Did you like > Voyager, despite its flaws (How was it that a Borg cube took out half the > Federation at Wolf-359, and yet Voyager took out cubes on a regular basis > all on its own?). TOS with its attempts to find a new way to engage Kirk in > a battle to save some bimbo in 3/4s of the episodes? DS9 had decent > characters, but they got stuck in a loop doing war related episodes. > Anyhow, I think TNG was one of the best Star Treks, with its character > development, its large crew (it didn't focus on only 4 characters), and its > plot. > Zach Actually, after watching Enterprise, I dont really *like* any of the older series. I watches TOS, watched MOST of TNG (missed the last couple years of it), and never watched or got into DS9 or Voyager.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 23:07:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zach Malone) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 00:07:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" References: <001501c146fe$875e8280$6401a8c0@laboffice> <20010926223555.M2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <000901c14709$e5c7aa30$6401a8c0@laboffice> > Level of TNG? TNG was nothing but a morality play every episode. This is > nice and gritty. I like it. So what do you like outside of the most recent series? Did you like Voyager, despite its flaws (How was it that a Borg cube took out half the Federation at Wolf-359, and yet Voyager took out cubes on a regular basis all on its own?). TOS with its attempts to find a new way to engage Kirk in a battle to save some bimbo in 3/4s of the episodes? DS9 had decent characters, but they got stuck in a loop doing war related episodes. Anyhow, I think TNG was one of the best Star Treks, with its character development, its large crew (it didn't focus on only 4 characters), and its plot. Zach From geeks at sunhelp.org Wed Sep 26 23:52:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 04:52:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s..j In-Reply-To: <20010926231638.C39569@zilla.nu> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > I was referring to the one starring Mark Hamil as a kid who wants a van > to get chicks. All I can think of when I think of Mark Hamill is "Cock-nocker". ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 00:30:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Geoff Reed) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:30:55 -0700 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s..j In-Reply-To: <20010926231638.C39569@zilla.nu> References: <009401c146e5$8f8c8290$0301a8c0@chimp> <32793E399570D511842A0002B35B4AD923BEB7@ICTI_MAIL> <20010926152119.M4713@rs.rackshack.net> <009401c146e5$8f8c8290$0301a8c0@chimp> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010926222937.00a38ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Um... do you possibly mean Mark hamill as a highschool motorheadgeek who builds a corvette that gets "stolen" ... movie's called "corvette summer"... came out within a year or so of star wars IIRC At 11:16 PM 9/26/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 12:46:38AM +0100, Will Mc Donald wrote: > > > The Van, if you're referring to the film production of the Roddy Doyle > book, > > is also damn good. As is The Commitments. > >I was referring to the one starring Mark Hamil as a kid who wants a van >to get chicks. > >Reagen >_______________________________________________ >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 02:55:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 27 Sep 2001 00:55:59 -0700 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <86elotukxc.fsf@koyote.cx> >I like this show more than any other Star Trek I've ever seen. >Its great without being geeky, and gritty enough to not seem like >a morals play (e.g., ST:TNG). Yah- it's got promise. Despite the clearly star wars and lexx bits :) The thing that always bugged me the most about TNG was lounge chairs on a warship bridge and the distinct lack of photon torpedos...... :) -C From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 03:03:24 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 27 Sep 2001 01:03:24 -0700 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <193109103704.20010926230513@crosswinds.net> References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> <065601c146ff$53a6a700$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010927032330.419C5EC@proven.weird.com> <193109103704.20010926230513@crosswinds.net> Message-ID: <86adzhukkz.fsf@koyote.cx> >I only have one thing to say - wrong theme music. Period. Everything >else I give one season where I don't criticize like I do any new show. dude, how right. the theme music blows chunks. it's about as exploratory and uplifting in mood as... well, hell- even "suicide is painless" had more get up and go than the new trek theme. -C From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 04:11:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 11:11:38 +0200 Subject: [geeks] AUI Networks Message-ID: just buy some TP transceivers and plug them on the hosts AUI interface . "Zach Malone" @sunhelp.org on 27/09/2001 01:38:41 Please respond to geeks at sunhelp.org Sent by: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org To: cc: Subject: [geeks] AUI Networks Hello, I recently discovered that my AUI based machines were starting to outnumber my 100bT boxes, and that therefore, I ought to look into setting up a network for them, as the number of 10bT - AUI connectors I am needing is getting ridiculous. Anyhow, I have been unable to figure out exactly what sort of network these use, I have not found any hubs/switches that use AUI ports, and I have also been unable to dig up the cables I would expect to find if they used a ring arrangement. Can anyone help me out here and explain how an AUI network is set up, and what sorts of parts I should look for? Zach _______________________________________________ GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 06:00:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (McMichael, David) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:00:19 -0400 Subject: [geeks] LARGE BOOT DISK ON A3500 Message-ID: <1AE13ACECA51D511BA5600204804EE4ABF29A9@rbmail102.chamb.disa.mil> SUN, I have an A3500. I have replaced the disks in slots 0,1 and 2 with three 36GBT disk of my own. I am trying to boot from slot 0 but the system is not seeing that disk. When I run 'format' I see slots 1 & 2 ... I have heard that a large boot disk might require a patch or firmware upgrade...? Any ideas on this situation.. Regards, Wlfpck92 at aol.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 06:16:37 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (John Duksta) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:16:37 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <32793E399570D511842A0002B35B4AD923BEB7@ICTI_MAIL> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> At 04:20 PM 9/26/2001 -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: >I pulled out my copy of the soundtrack to the movie "Car Wash"... > >My office mate (a college intern) *never heard* of the movie Oh man... kids these days. No pop cultural history at all. We've got kids fresh out of college at my office who have never seen Repo Man, THX-1138, Sleeper and a host of other important films. It kills me. And it's not like I'm that much older than them (I'm only 31) -john From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 07:20:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:20:27 -0400 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> <065601c146ff$53a6a700$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010926223753.N2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <003701c1474e$cde4a720$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > WHY? Watch Enterprise, then watch JW when they repeat it 2 hours later > like all the TLC/Discovery shows.. > My body shuts down at 11:00pm - If I tried to watch JW at 12:00, I'd be asleep after the first five minutes. I have one of those brains/body combos that simply refuses to work after so long. Some nights I'm comatose at 10:00. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 08:35:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:35:09 -0500 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <003701c1474e$cde4a720$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> <065601c146ff$53a6a700$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010926223753.N2460@mrbill.net> <003701c1474e$cde4a720$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010927083509.R2460@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 08:20:27AM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > My body shuts down at 11:00pm - If I tried to watch JW at 12:00, I'd be > asleep after the first five minutes. > I have one of those brains/body combos that simply refuses to work after so > long. Some nights I'm comatose at 10:00. One word: TiVo. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 09:56:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Mosiejczuk) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] PDF t Palm conversion... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Kris Kirby wrote: > > Why do you want support for tarballs? There are easier ways to physically > > transfer 1-8 Meg files between machines, esp. if you have to carry a > > hotsynch cable with you and install software on each machine you want to > > communicate with... > > Not to mention wearing out your flash cells, which have a finite life. Uh, wearing out the flash cells is not an issue... unless your taking special steps to put stuff in flash (which not only PalmOS units have) stuff goes in RAM.... just average normal RAM. A Palm is never truly 'off'. Well, except when you take out the batteries for a while =) --Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 10:05:28 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Mosiejczuk) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 11:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > I like this show more than any other Star Trek I've ever seen. > Its great without being geeky, and gritty enough to not seem like > a morals play (e.g., ST:TNG). > I'm looking forward to next week. *sob* Our local cable made a deal with UPN to carry UPN for primetime (yeah, our local cable, time-warner.... it's only Buffy and Enterprise that made them cave this far). So I thought we were set. The wife agreed to TiVo it last night while I was out. I came home. She decided to record Enterprise on the silly combo TV/VCR our roommate has so TiVo could get a West Wing re-run she hadn't seen. And of course the little combo screwed up the recording. Oh well. --Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 12:35:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:35:49 -0500 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s..j In-Reply-To: <20010927112149.L362@zilla.nu> References: <009401c146e5$8f8c8290$0301a8c0@chimp> <01383204144.dave.5988@cca.org> <20010927112149.L362@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010927123548.A2460@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 11:21:50AM -0500, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > The only Suburbia I know is the one by Eric Bogosian and Richard > Linklater about losers hanging out by a convenience store. You sure that wasnt "Clerks"? 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 13:17:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Dombrowski) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:17:48 -0400 Subject: [geeks] TNG In-Reply-To: <20010927133718.C925B11CE2@ohno.mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3BB3350C.25495.13BC6C88@localhost> On 27 Sep 2001, at 8:37, geeks-request at sunhelp.org wrote: > > Level of TNG? TNG was nothing but a morality play every episode. > > This is nice and gritty. I like it. > So what do you like outside of the most recent series? Did you like > Voyager, despite its flaws (How was it that a Borg cube took out half > the Federation at Wolf-359, and yet Voyager took out cubes on a > regular basis all on its own?). TOS with its attempts to find a new > way to engage Kirk in a battle to save some bimbo in 3/4s of the > episodes? DS9 had decent characters, but they got stuck in a loop > doing war related episodes. Anyhow, I think TNG was one of the best > Star Treks, with its character development, its large crew (it didn't > focus on only 4 characters), and its plot. TNG was sooo cool. I used to watch it religiously as a kid and it influenced me a lot. Anyway, me real question, where does one get old episodes? Is there a site with DIVXs for download or a DVD out? Mike From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 13:29:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 27 Sep 2001 11:29:14 -0700 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> Message-ID: <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> >Oh man... kids these days. No pop cultural history at all. >We've got kids fresh out of college at my office who have >never seen Repo Man, THX-1138, Sleeper and a host of other >important films. It kills me. And it's not like I'm that >much older than them (I'm only 31) huh. just like so many of us early 30's guys have never seen all those silly 1950's and 60's beach movies that some of our parents bother us about. Guess we have no cultural history, either. Hell, for that matter, I don't watch 1920's era films. Guess I'm just a hoser, eh? :) -C From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 13:38:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 27 Sep 2001 11:38:55 -0700 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s..j In-Reply-To: <20010927112149.L362@zilla.nu> References: <009401c146e5$8f8c8290$0301a8c0@chimp> <01383204144.dave.5988@cca.org> <20010927112149.L362@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <86lmj0qy0w.fsf@koyote.cx> >The only Suburbia I know is the one by Eric Bogosian and Richard >Linklater about losers hanging out by a convenience store. Never saw it. The Suburbia I remember comes from way back. TR, man. Guess what? Chicken guts! From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 13:47:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:47:51 -0500 Subject: [geeks] TNG In-Reply-To: <3BB3350C.25495.13BC6C88@localhost> References: <20010927133718.C925B11CE2@ohno.mrbill.net> <3BB3350C.25495.13BC6C88@localhost> Message-ID: <20010927134751.C2460@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 02:17:48PM -0400, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > TNG was sooo cool. I used to watch it religiously as a kid and it > influenced me a lot. Anyway, me real question, where does one get > old episodes? Is there a site with DIVXs for download or a DVD out? TNN (formerly The Nashville Network, now The National Network; they're getting rid of the "hick" content) now plays them. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 14:09:38 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 27 Sep 2001 12:09:38 -0700 Subject: [geeks] TNG In-Reply-To: <3BB3350C.25495.13BC6C88@localhost> References: <3BB3350C.25495.13BC6C88@localhost> Message-ID: <868zf0qwlp.fsf@koyote.cx> >TNG was sooo cool. I used to watch it religiously as a kid and it >influenced me a lot. Anyway, me real question, where does one get >old episodes? Is there a site with DIVXs for download or a DVD out? I'll admit to liking the first borg run. that's about it. We got episosdes taed and mailed to us in the mid east and europe when it was on. (I was in the military through most or all of TNG) I distinctly remember wanting to hang riker from the tail of one of our P-3's. Maybe I got a false impression since I only saw maybe 20 episodes. -C From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 14:51:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (John Duksta) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:51:34 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927155034.0356b0d8@bur-po1.genuity.com> At 11:29 AM 9/27/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >Oh man... kids these days. No pop cultural history at all. > >We've got kids fresh out of college at my office who have > >never seen Repo Man, THX-1138, Sleeper and a host of other > >important films. It kills me. And it's not like I'm that > >much older than them (I'm only 31) > >huh. just like so many of us early 30's guys have never seen all those >silly 1950's and 60's beach movies that some of our parents bother us >about. Guess we have no cultural history, either. Oh, but I have seen those 50's and 60's beach movies :) And 20's and 30's silent films too. Perhaps I'm just a media junkie... -john From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 15:09:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 27 Sep 2001 13:09:48 -0700 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927155034.0356b0d8@bur-po1.genuity.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010927155034.0356b0d8@bur-po1.genuity.com> Message-ID: <86vgi4pf8z.fsf@koyote.cx> >Oh, but I have seen those 50's and 60's beach movies :) >And 20's and 30's silent films too. >Perhaps I'm just a media junkie... Heh. I'm far from it. With the one exception of having gone through a phase fo diggin out old 1960's and early 70's dramas- expecially sutherland films... hell, I still don't see more than 20% of movies that show in theatres. From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 15:12:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:12:33 -0400 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> <065601c146ff$53a6a700$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010926223753.N2460@mrbill.net> <003701c1474e$cde4a720$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010927083509.R2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <00cf01c14790$c18d2500$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > I have one of those brains/body combos that simply refuses to work after so > > long. Some nights I'm comatose at 10:00. > > One word: TiVo. Word. A new paintball gun is on the priority list though. Gotta get me an Impulse before I even consider a TiVo - then it has to get by the CFO (my wife :-). Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 15:21:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:21:46 -0400 Subject: [geeks] TNG References: <20010927133718.C925B11CE2@ohno.mrbill.net> <3BB3350C.25495.13BC6C88@localhost> <20010927134751.C2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <012f01c14792$0ad800d0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > TNN (formerly The Nashville Network, now The National Network; > they're getting rid of the "hick" content) now plays them. > Yeah - that's a shame too - I like the "hick" content. You can't find shows like American Shooter or Everything Outdoors on any other station. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 15:31:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:31:46 +0100 Subject: [geeks] why ? In-Reply-To: <046801c14637$62666d70$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH>; from kurt@k-huhn.com on Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 11:00:16PM -0400 References: <01382222222.dave.12125@cca.org> <046801c14637$62666d70$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010927213146.C21786@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 11:00:16PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Agreed. But we should recognize good music from the 80's. The Clash, The > Smiths, PIL, The Pixies, The Pogues, The Specials, Beastie Boys, The Cure, > Burning Spear, are all what I would consider good music. Many of whom are still going strong. I saw Burning Spear just a couple of months ago. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david There is no sigmonster From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 15:51:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:51:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] TNG In-Reply-To: <012f01c14792$0ad800d0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: > Yeah - that's a shame too - I like the "hick" content. You can't find shows > like American Shooter or Everything Outdoors on any other station. I agree. The only other station I've ever seen that sort of thing on was a PBS station out of Tulsa. They had a show called "Outdoor Oklahoma". It basically boiled down to hunting/fishing game'o'the season + some nature and conservation stuff. Sponsored by the state of oklahoma I believe |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 17:09:17 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:09:17 EDT Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from Message-ID: <01384180917.dave.10381@cca.org> geoffr at zipcon.net writes: >Um... do you possibly mean Mark hamill as a highschool motorheadgeek who >builds a corvette that gets "stolen" ... movie's called "corvette >summer"... came out within a year or so of star wars IIRC Hmmm... my friend used to have a band called "Corvette Summer". I guess that's where that's from. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- ------------------------ I like making new friends. ------------------------ -- I make them out of clay and bring them to life with a blood sacrifice. -- From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 17:09:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:09:18 EDT Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. References: <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <01384180918.dave.10401@cca.org> koyote at koyote.cx writes: >Hell, for that matter, I don't watch 1920's era films. Guess I'm just a hoser, eh? :) Silent films rule. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- ------------------------ I like making new friends. ------------------------ -- I make them out of clay and bring them to life with a blood sacrifice. -- From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 17:09:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:09:19 EDT Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s..j References: <86lmj0qy0w.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <01384180919.dave.10421@cca.org> koyote at koyote.cx writes: >>The only Suburbia I know is the one by Eric Bogosian and Richard >>Linklater about losers hanging out by a convenience store. >Never saw it. The Suburbia I remember comes from way back. TR, man. >Guess what? >Chicken guts! That's the one! It was directed by what's-her-name who also did Decline & Fall, right? -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- ------------------------ I like making new friends. ------------------------ -- I make them out of clay and bring them to life with a blood sacrifice. -- From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 17:09:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:09:20 EDT Subject: [geeks] TNG References: <20010927143321.E14348@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <01384180919.dave.10441@cca.org> ward at zilla.nu writes: >Never heard that one. Once saw a usenet sig: >Wesley Crusher + Airlock = Good Idea Have you seen his weblog? It's surprisingly good. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- ------------------------ I like making new friends. ------------------------ -- I make them out of clay and bring them to life with a blood sacrifice. -- From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 17:10:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:10:30 +0100 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s..j References: <009401c146e5$8f8c8290$0301a8c0@chimp> <01383204144.dave.5988@cca.org> <20010927112149.L362@zilla.nu> <20010927123548.A2460@mrbill.net> <20010927124112.P362@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <009e01c147a2$5c54cd20$0301a8c0@chimp> From: "Reagen B . Ward" > On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 12:35:49PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 11:21:50AM -0500, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > > > The only Suburbia I know is the one by Eric Bogosian and Richard > > > Linklater about losers hanging out by a convenience store. > > > > You sure that wasnt "Clerks"? 8-) > > While I enjoyed clerks, I definately suggest that everyone look for the > Suburbia I mentioned. Esp if you like Parker Posey. I vividly (well, as vivid as my memory gets) remember watching Suburbia when I was a 14 year old or so dissafected youth and absolutely loving it. I only saw it once and haven't ever seen it for sale or on TV since. On a cinematic note, AI. Just been to see it. What on *earth* was that all about?! I thought I had a vague idea what to expect but my god was I wrong. There's the usual Speilberg slush and I'm sat there thinking "This is bad, but watchably, enetertainingly so." Then, just when I thought it was about over it all just went ape-shit. Will. From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 17:17:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:17:16 +0100 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <009f01c147a2$5ce5e990$0301a8c0@chimp> From: > >Oh man... kids these days. No pop cultural history at all. > >We've got kids fresh out of college at my office who have > >never seen Repo Man, THX-1138, Sleeper and a host of other > >important films. It kills me. And it's not like I'm that > >much older than them (I'm only 31) > > > huh. just like so many of us early 30's guys have never seen all those silly 1950's and 60's beach movies that some > of our parents bother us about. Guess we have no cultural history, either. I have. And I'm 29. :) Beach Blanket Bingo, Muscle Beach Party etc. They're pretty godamn awful. Amusing and even endearing for the kitsch value though. > Hell, for that matter, I don't watch 1920's era films. Guess I'm just a hoser, eh? :) Unsurprisingly, I do. :) And I wouldn't say not watching old films makes you a (h)loser, it probably implies that you have more of a life than some of us... then again, you are on this list. ;) Will. From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 17:36:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:36:51 +0100 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 08:58:44PM -0500 References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010927233651.G21786@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 08:58:44PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > I like this show more than any other Star Trek I've ever seen. > Its great without being geeky, and gritty enough to not seem like > a morals play (e.g., ST:TNG). No spoilers if you please - we don't get it here for a few weeks yet. -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david The voices said it's a good day to clean my weapons From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 17:41:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 17:41:06 -0500 Subject: [geeks] TNG In-Reply-To: References: <012f01c14792$0ad800d0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010927174106.G2460@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 03:51:20PM -0500, Benjamin Kelley wrote: > The only other station I've ever seen that sort of thing on was a PBS > station out of Tulsa. They had a show called "Outdoor Oklahoma". > It basically boiled down to hunting/fishing game'o'the season + some > nature and conservation stuff. Sponsored by the state of oklahoma I > believe Dude - "Outdoor Oklahoma" KICKS ASS. (born in OKC, grew up in Anadarko, went to college in Chickasha, moved to Austin in '96...) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 17:43:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:43:48 EDT Subject: [geeks] TNG References: <20010927172104.B78369@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <01384184348.dave.14475@cca.org> ward at zilla.nu writes: >On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 06:09:20PM -0400, dave at cca.org wrote: >> ward at zilla.nu writes: >> >> >Never heard that one. Once saw a usenet sig: >> >> >Wesley Crusher + Airlock = Good Idea >> >> Have you seen his weblog? It's surprisingly good. >Who, the actor? Yep. Don't know the URL though. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- ------------------------ I like making new friends. ------------------------ -- I make them out of clay and bring them to life with a blood sacrifice. -- From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 18:48:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Tugrul Galatali) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:48:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [geeks] TNG In-Reply-To: <3BB3350C.25495.13BC6C88@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Sep 2001, Mike Dombrowski wrote: > influenced me a lot. Anyway, me real question, where does one get > old episodes? Is there a site with DIVXs for download or a DVD out? *looks at a stack of ~50 cds on his desk* Tugrul Galatali From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 18:50:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 00:50:19 +0100 Subject: [geeks] TNG References: <20010927172104.B78369@zilla.nu> <01384184348.dave.14475@cca.org> Message-ID: <031e01c147af$3e8113a0$0301a8c0@chimp> From: > ward at zilla.nu writes: > > >On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 06:09:20PM -0400, dave at cca.org wrote: > >> ward at zilla.nu writes: > >> > >> >Never heard that one. Once saw a usenet sig: > >> > >> >Wesley Crusher + Airlock = Good Idea > >> > >> Have you seen his weblog? It's surprisingly good. > > >Who, the actor? > > Yep. Don't know the URL though. Remind me tomorrow morning (BST) to find you some good Wesley links I got sent recently. :) In fact, I may have a copy of that mail here somewhere. Nope. But here we have them anyway... http://www.memepool.com/Search/index.cgi?terms=wesley From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 21:39:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:39:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] TNG In-Reply-To: <20010927174106.G2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: > Dude - "Outdoor Oklahoma" KICKS ASS. > > (born in OKC, grew up in Anadarko, went to college in Chickasha, > moved to Austin in '96...) Yes it does. I lived my first 18 years in Coffeyville KS, right across the north border. 70ish miles due north of Tulsa |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 21:49:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 02:49:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] dammit. Message-ID: *Sigh*. The puppy that we've been nursing along since she showed up on our doorstep (8/12/01) got hit today. It was quick, and the driver of the car did the right thing. dammit. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 21:50:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:50:55 -0500 Subject: [geeks] dammit. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010927215055.P2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 02:49:07AM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > *Sigh*. The puppy that we've been nursing along since she showed up on our > doorstep (8/12/01) got hit today. It was quick, and the driver of the car > did the right thing. > dammit. 8-( Bill (3 cats, 1 st bernard) -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 22:04:01 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 20:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] dammit. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You have Chan's and my sympathies. -Pete ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Kris Kirby wrote: > > *Sigh*. The puppy that we've been nursing along since she showed up on our > doorstep (8/12/01) got hit today. It was quick, and the driver of the car > did the right thing. > > dammit. > > ----- > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > | > ------------------------------------------------------- > "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 22:12:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:12:02 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> Message-ID: <007301c147cb$58af4820$0301a8c0@kensportege> Dr. Strangelove. World According to Garp, Raising Arizona, 12 Angry Men, Tora, Tora, Tora, Midway, Mr. Blandings builds his dream house... Lots of great movies out there, most of them made before I was paying for my own movie tickets... And I'm 37. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Duksta" To: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 7:16 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. > At 04:20 PM 9/26/2001 -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > >I pulled out my copy of the soundtrack to the movie "Car Wash"... > > > >My office mate (a college intern) *never heard* of the movie > > Oh man... kids these days. No pop cultural history at all. > We've got kids fresh out of college at my office who have > never seen Repo Man, THX-1138, Sleeper and a host of other > important films. It kills me. And it's not like I'm that > much older than them (I'm only 31) > > -john > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 22:25:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:25:33 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> The question is really, "how much time did you spend in front of the TV *before* VCRs and Cable were commonly available?" In the late 70's I watched a lot of movies from the 50's and 60's - Oh, and what about "Take the money and run"? That was a great movie! Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. > >Oh man... kids these days. No pop cultural history at all. > >We've got kids fresh out of college at my office who have > >never seen Repo Man, THX-1138, Sleeper and a host of other > >important films. It kills me. And it's not like I'm that > >much older than them (I'm only 31) > > > huh. just like so many of us early 30's guys have never seen all those silly 1950's and 60's beach movies that some of our parents bother us about. Guess we have no cultural history, either. > > Hell, for that matter, I don't watch 1920's era films. Guess I'm just a hoser, eh? :) > > -C > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 22:28:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:28:49 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <20010927143220.D14348@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <011501c147cd$b122cc00$0301a8c0@kensportege> Ohh, and "Advice for the married man"? (Deny, deny, deny!) Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reagen B . Ward" To: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. > How to stuff a wild bikini is still a favorite of mine. And Mad Mad Mad > Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad World. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 22:32:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:32:48 -0400 Subject: [geeks] TNG References: <20010927133718.C925B11CE2@ohno.mrbill.net> <3BB3350C.25495.13BC6C88@localhost> <20010927134751.C2460@mrbill.net> <012f01c14792$0ad800d0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010927152634.H14348@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <014201c147ce$3fbd7320$0301a8c0@kensportege> Don't they run The Rockford Files? Great show (as is/was Columbo)... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reagen B . Ward" To: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] TNG > On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 04:21:46PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > Yeah - that's a shame too - I like the "hick" content. You can't find shows > > like American Shooter or Everything Outdoors on any other station. > > And the Dukes, of course. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 22:35:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:35:05 -0400 Subject: [geeks] why ? References: <01382222222.dave.12125@cca.org> <046801c14637$62666d70$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010927213146.C21786@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <014e01c147ce$9142e540$0301a8c0@kensportege> Anyone else hear the song "World Destruction"? George Clinton and Johnny Rotten as lead vocalists, Bernie Worrel on synth - a *great* song from the mid-eighties... It was real popular on Princeton Univ. Radio one summer... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Cantrell" To: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] why ? > On Tue, Sep 25, 2001 at 11:00:16PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > > Agreed. But we should recognize good music from the 80's. The Clash, The > > Smiths, PIL, The Pixies, The Pogues, The Specials, Beastie Boys, The Cure, > > Burning Spear, are all what I would consider good music. > > Many of whom are still going strong. I saw Burning Spear just a couple of > months ago. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 22:38:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Amit Sardesai) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Student Message-ID: Hello, I need some information from you regarding QOS in wireless networks.I am a student at UMBC and i have a project in which i have multiple networks such as Bluetooth, wireless LAN etc.I need to derive each QOS parameter in these networks as a function of the number of packets sent such that i want to optimally divide the total number of packets among the networks.Also the function may have dependencies among the different QoS parameters.Can u help me to have more info regarding this Thanks and Regards, Amit Sardesai From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 22:40:21 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 22:40:21 -0500 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <007301c147cb$58af4820$0301a8c0@kensportege> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <007301c147cb$58af4820$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010927224021.U2460@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 11:12:02PM -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > Dr. Strangelove. I got the *book* that this was based on, which was even cooler. Bill (currently debating watching "A Better Tomorrow" with CHow-Yun Fat, but I'll have to reboot to OS9 to do it...) -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Thu Sep 27 22:42:00 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 22:42:00 -0500 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010927224200.V2460@mrbill.net> On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 11:25:33PM -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > The question is really, "how much time did you spend in front of the TV > *before* VCRs and Cable were commonly available?" I didnt watch a lot of TV *until* we got a VCR.. then my family went NUTS - watched all the bad B movies we could find. "Nail Gun Massacre" was one I particuarly remember. > In the late 70's I watched a lot of movies from the 50's and 60's - Oh, and > what about "Take the money and run"? That was a great movie! Nothing beats the original Smokey and the Bandit movie... The scene where one tractor-trailer "turns into" about 50 of them.. makes me laugh every time.. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 01:10:13 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 27 Sep 2001 23:10:13 -0700 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <86elotukxc.fsf@koyote.cx> References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> <86elotukxc.fsf@koyote.cx> Message-ID: <1001657413.1369.60.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Thu, 2001-09-27 at 00:55, koyote at koyote.cx wrote: > >I like this show more than any other Star Trek I've ever seen. > >Its great without being geeky, and gritty enough to not seem like > >a morals play (e.g., ST:TNG). > > > Yah- it's got promise. Despite the clearly star wars and lexx bits :) > > > The thing that always bugged me the most about TNG was lounge chairs on a > warship bridge and the distinct lack of photon torpedos...... It's not a warship though. The main bridge is on the saucer section, which is primarily scientific "stuff" and crew quarters. If you look at the "battle bridge", it's a lot more functional for a warship. I never saw them to be lacking photon torpedos, got any examples? Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 02:15:05 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 08:15:05 +0100 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <007301c147ed$63c10560$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> From: "Ken Hansen" > In the late 70's I watched a lot of movies from the 50's and 60's - Oh, and > what about "Take the money and run"? That was a great movie! "Give me the money, I have a gub?" "No, that definately says bun." Still one of the funniest scenes ever. :) Will. From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 03:35:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (William S.) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 01:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Big 50: The Day the Earth Stood Still Message-ID: <20010928083547.9138.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Today marks the 50th Anniversary of the release of "The Day the Earth Stood Still". In my opinion, this is the best sci-fi movie ever made. Bill Amsterdam, NL __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 07:46:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 08:46:15 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> <007301c147ed$63c10560$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> Message-ID: <000d01c1481b$903e3f80$0301a8c0@kensportege> What about when he tips the Host at the fancy restaurant - with his haul from the local gumball machines - a handfull of coins! Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Mc Donald" To: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 3:15 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. > From: "Ken Hansen" > > > In the late 70's I watched a lot of movies from the 50's and 60's - Oh, > and > > what about "Take the money and run"? That was a great movie! > > "Give me the money, I have a gub?" > > "No, that definately says bun." > > Still one of the funniest scenes ever. :) > > Will. > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 08:04:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 14:04:27 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Anyone else having a month like mine? Message-ID: <009a01c1481e$1b2e1c30$7100000a@deepthought> All, Well I have had a truly joyous month so far. At the beginning of the month my wife and I finally fully split. Fun Then there was the rape case and my computers being siezed. Laugh Riot Then the following friday I head out to Southern Illinois to meet up with a friend. Just before I leave she calls me to say she cant pick me up at the airport and I have to make my way to Jacksonville from Chicago on my own. I get into chicago two hours late on friday night after everything is shutdown and try and get a flight down to Springfield Il, which is about 30 miles from Jville. No dice the next flight isnt until the next day. No busses or trains either. But I can get to St. Louis which is supposedly only 60 miles from Jville and my friend will pick me up there. So I get the flight to St Louis, but when I get there jsut as the airport is about to close I cant get in touch with my friend. Great fun So I decide, ok it's 60 miles, I'll jsut get a car service to take me out. Only 1 problem. It turned out to be 90 miles and cost $180.00 joy So then I finally get into Jville, and I cant get in touch with my friend. For three days. It turns out her roomate has been erasing my messages or not passing them on to her, or just out an out lying to her because he doesnt like me. He actually told her I had left and didnt want to see her at one point. I was supposed to be staying with her, but I ended up having to stay in an overpriced hotel. Sheer joy Finally we manage to get together on monday. I'm supposed to leave on tuesday afternoon.Of course I wake up tuesday morning to scenes of the world trade center being crashed into. I literally woke up and turned the TV on jsut as the second plane was crashing into it. What a way to wake up huh. Now remember I'm a dual citizen living in Ireland. I always travel with multiple sets of travel documents from different contries. My father is a known associate of terrorist organizations. I work in the security business and tend to have lots of questionable things on or about my person. Utter bliss So I get to spend the next 8 days in a hotel room in southern illinois with Aer Lingus not answering their phones. They literally put a message on the voicemail saying not to call them for a few days. In the meantime I'm still in a hotel, for a total of 12 nights when I had plannned on staying with a friend. My credit card is maxed and I'm running out of cash. Plus I still have to find a way to get back from Jville to Chicago. At least I got to spend three full days with my friend. Finally they book me on a flight back to Dublin, but I get a sinus infection from the airplane, and spend the weekend drugged to the gills with a head that feels like spikes are being pounded into it. I'm supposed to make a presentation to my board on monday which I have to put off because Im sick. Tuesday my mother calls me. She jsut went through another bout with cancer a few months ago, and she got through it, but she's still beeen sick and they jsut found out why. She has a tumor growing around her brain stem. They are not sure if it's operable or not, if it is she may be ok if not she has six months to live. Indescribable ecstacy So last night, still with a sinus infection two members of the board call us in for a meeting. My company is a joint venture between an Irish company and an english company each having 50% stake. The english company just told the irish company that they are almost bankrupt and are pulling out of the JV. We as a company are doing quite well, but 50% of our money just got taken away from us. We are going to have to lay off half our staff, and our planned expansion is of course put on hold. We were planning to triple the size of the company we were doing so well. I'm not sure if I'm going to stay on or not since the future is so uncertain. It's been an interesting month lemme tell ya Chris Byrne From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 09:21:07 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 07:21:07 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Anyone else having a month like mine? Message-ID: Hey, at least you got all your shit outta the way at once. It could have dribbled in across a full year. Very sorry to hear about your mom. My mother fought for 18 years with the cancer demon. I just recently survived the blood-letting around my company. If I had been axed I would have been dead. New house in New Hampshire, old house just won't sell, don't want to go back to Pennsylvania, no work in PA anyways and I'm mortgaged out the wazoo with two houses. I can't wait for the economy to get better. Is the Irish tiger still roaring? In other words, is there other work there if you get the axe? > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Byrne [mailto:chris at chrisbyrne.com] > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:04 AM > To: geeks at sunhelp.org > Subject: [geeks] Anyone else having a month like mine? > > > All, > > Well I have had a truly joyous month so far. > > At the beginning of the month my wife and I finally fully split. > > Fun > > Then there was the rape case and my computers being siezed. > > Laugh Riot > > Then the following friday I head out to Southern Illinois to > meet up with a > friend. Just before I leave she calls me to say she cant pick > me up at the > airport and I have to make my way to Jacksonville from > Chicago on my own. I > get into chicago two hours late on friday night after > everything is shutdown > and try and get a flight down to Springfield Il, which is > about 30 miles > from Jville. No dice the next flight isnt until the next day. > No busses or > trains either. But I can get to St. Louis which is supposedly > only 60 miles > from Jville and my friend will pick me up there. > > So I get the flight to St Louis, but when I get there jsut as > the airport is > about to close I cant get in touch with my friend. > > Great fun > > So I decide, ok it's 60 miles, I'll jsut get a car service to > take me out. > Only 1 problem. It turned out to be 90 miles and cost $180.00 > > joy > > So then I finally get into Jville, and I cant get in touch > with my friend. > For three days. It turns out her roomate has been erasing my > messages or not > passing them on to her, or just out an out lying to her > because he doesnt > like me. He actually told her I had left and didnt want to > see her at one > point. I was supposed to be staying with her, but I ended up > having to stay > in an overpriced hotel. > > Sheer joy > > Finally we manage to get together on monday. I'm supposed to leave on > tuesday afternoon.Of course I wake up tuesday morning to > scenes of the world > trade center being crashed into. I literally woke up and > turned the TV on > jsut as the second plane was crashing into it. What a way to > wake up huh. > > Now remember I'm a dual citizen living in Ireland. I always > travel with > multiple sets of travel documents from different contries. My > father is a > known associate of terrorist organizations. I work in the > security business > and tend to have lots of questionable things on or about my person. > > Utter bliss > > So I get to spend the next 8 days in a hotel room in southern > illinois with > Aer Lingus not answering their phones. They literally put a > message on the > voicemail saying not to call them for a few days. In the > meantime I'm still > in a hotel, for a total of 12 nights when I had plannned on > staying with a > friend. My credit card is maxed and I'm running out of cash. > Plus I still > have to find a way to get back from Jville to Chicago. At > least I got to > spend three full days with my friend. > Finally they book me on a flight back to Dublin, but I get a > sinus infection > from the airplane, and spend the weekend drugged to the gills > with a head > that feels like spikes are being pounded into it. I'm > supposed to make a > presentation to my board on monday which I have to put off > because Im sick. > > Tuesday my mother calls me. She jsut went through another > bout with cancer a > few months ago, and she got through it, but she's still beeen > sick and they > jsut found out why. She has a tumor growing around her brain > stem. They are > not sure if it's operable or not, if it is she may be ok if > not she has six > months to live. > > Indescribable ecstacy > > So last night, still with a sinus infection two members of > the board call us > in for a meeting. > > My company is a joint venture between an Irish company and an english > company each having 50% stake. The english company just told the irish > company that they are almost bankrupt and are pulling out of > the JV. We as a > company are doing quite well, but 50% of our money just got > taken away from > us. We are going to have to lay off half our staff, and our planned > expansion is of course put on hold. We were planning to > triple the size of > the company we were doing so well. > I'm not sure if I'm going to stay on or not since the future is so > uncertain. > > It's been an interesting month lemme tell ya > > Chris Byrne > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 09:38:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:38:08 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <000d01c1481b$903e3f80$0301a8c0@kensportege> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> <007301c147ed$63c10560$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> <000d01c1481b$903e3f80$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010928103808.A25371@cs.millersville.edu> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 08:46:15AM -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > What about when he tips the Host at the fancy restaurant - with his haul > from the local gumball machines - a handfull of coins! I was at a resturant the other month where the discussion came up of whether it was better to leave a 10% tip in cash, or a 33% tip in really small change. Since we didn't want to undertip the waitress, we left the incredibly large pile ($14 worth) of change on the table. And since then I always make a point of carrying extra cash to resturants even when someone else claims they are paying. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 09:54:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Benjamin Kelley) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:54:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] Big 50: The Day the Earth Stood Still In-Reply-To: <20010928083547.9138.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Today marks the 50th Anniversary of the release of > "The Day the Earth Stood Still". > > In my opinion, this is the best sci-fi movie ever > made. Klaatu barada *cough,cough*nikto*cough*. |=================================================| Benjamin L. Kelley Birch Telecom Unix Systems Administrator Email: bkelley at birch.net Phone: 816-300-1907 CellPhone: 816-582-8462 Pager: bkelley-page at birch.net or 816-855-8729 Web: HTTP://www.birch.com |=================================================| From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 10:26:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:26:49 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Big 50: The Day the Earth Stood Still In-Reply-To: References: <20010928083547.9138.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010928102649.B2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 09:54:51AM -0500, Benjamin Kelley wrote: > Klaatu barada *cough,cough*nikto*cough*. dude, dont make me spit my mt. dew on my nice 21"! 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 10:29:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:29:27 -0500 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <20010928103808.A25371@cs.millersville.edu> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> <007301c147ed$63c10560$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> <000d01c1481b$903e3f80$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010928103808.A25371@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20010928102927.C2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 10:38:08AM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > I was at a resturant the other month where the discussion came up of > whether it was better to leave a 10% tip in cash, or a 33% tip in really > small change. > Since we didn't want to undertip the waitress, we left the incredibly > large pile ($14 worth) of change on the table. I've been known to leave tips that were bigger than the *check* before. Amy and I were at a restaraunt a couple of weeks ago, and I dont remember how, but the waitress mentioned that she was having to work a double shift and had two kids at home. I think our check was only $15 or so, and I left her a $10 tip. I used to always way-overtip our favorite waitress at a local 24-hour cafe (she always knew what we wanted to drink, always went out of her way to say hi even if we werent in her section, etc) but she quit, so we dont go back there much. I'll always prefer a place with mediocre food and good service over somewplace with great food and shitty service. For those in or near Austin, Cool River Cafe is *highly* recommended. Good prices, EXCELLENT service, and they dont look down their nose snootily at you when you come in in jeans and a tie-dyed tshirt to shit next to froofy SUV-driving yuppies. www.coolrivercafe.com. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 10:30:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:30:12 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Big 50: The Day the Earth Stood Still In-Reply-To: <20010928101532.H78369@zilla.nu> References: <20010928083547.9138.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> <20010928101532.H78369@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010928103012.D2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 10:15:32AM -0500, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > She likes electronics stores (EPO in Houston), doesn't mind computers > and cables, lets me leave tubes and wires (and careful notes) strewn > about without tidying them up, but she is definately missing the guy > movie gene. Dude. Do what I did last week. Watch a chick movie with her! We PPV'ed "Chocolat". To my amazement, I *really liked it*. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 11:10:35 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Michael A. Turner) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 12:10:35 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. Message-ID: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA470@terra.whro.org> Um what exactly goes in at this cafe? I , while not being a prude, do not intend to shit next to any SUV driving yuppies as a whole..... Not unless their is a stall wall seperating us that is. Michael A. Turner Systems Engineer WHRO michael.turner at whro.org http://www.whro.org snootily at you when you come in in jeans and a tie-dyed tshirt to shit next to froofy SUV-driving yuppies. www.coolrivercafe.com. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX _______________________________________________ GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 11:11:11 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:11:11 -0500 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA470@terra.whro.org> References: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA470@terra.whro.org> Message-ID: <20010928111111.F2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 12:10:35PM -0400, Michael A. Turner wrote: > Um what exactly goes in at this cafe? I , while not being a prude, > do not intend to shit next to any SUV driving yuppies as a whole..... Not > unless their is a stall wall seperating us that is. Austin has its share of SUV-driving yuppies. You have to put up with them just as you have to put up with anybody else you dont like. I dont choose my places to eat based on who goes there. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 11:13:29 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Zimmerman, Jim) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:13:29 -0600 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. Message-ID: <9F2ABADBBA07D311BA2D0008C70718BB0579AF4D@DENNTEX003.qwest.net> ---- Jim Zimmerman K0JLZ RHCE Staff IT Systems Engineer Hosting Engineering 303-226-9937 jim.zimmerman at qwest.com -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bradford [mailto:mrbill at mrbill.net] Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:29 AM To: geeks at sunhelp.org Subject: Re: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 10:38:08AM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > I was at a resturant the other month where the discussion came up of > whether it was better to leave a 10% tip in cash, or a 33% tip in really > small change. > Since we didn't want to undertip the waitress, we left the incredibly > large pile ($14 worth) of change on the table. I've been known to leave tips that were bigger than the *check* before. Amy and I were at a restaraunt a couple of weeks ago, and I dont remember how, but the waitress mentioned that she was having to work a double shift and had two kids at home. I think our check was only $15 or so, and I left her a $10 tip. I used to always way-overtip our favorite waitress at a local 24-hour cafe (she always knew what we wanted to drink, always went out of her way to say hi even if we werent in her section, etc) but she quit, so we dont go back there much. I'll always prefer a place with mediocre food and good service over somewplace with great food and shitty service. For those in or near Austin, Cool River Cafe is *highly* recommended. Good prices, EXCELLENT service, and they dont look down their nose snootily at you when you come in in jeans and a tie-dyed tshirt to shit next to froofy SUV-driving yuppies. ^^^^ I hope you didn't really mean that! www.coolrivercafe.com. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX _______________________________________________ GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 11:31:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (William S.) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Big 50: The Day the Earth Stood Still In-Reply-To: <20010928103012.D2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010928163127.44085.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> If you liked "Chocolat", I am sure you would enjoy the movie "Billy Elliot". I would not limit it by classifying it as a "chick" movie... just one for experiencing deep feelings. Bill Amsterdam, NL --- Bill Bradford wrote: > > Dude. Do what I did last week. Watch a chick movie > with her! > > We PPV'ed "Chocolat". To my amazement, I *really > liked it*. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 11:40:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:40:03 -0500 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <20010928102927.C2460@mrbill.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> <007301c147ed$63c10560$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> <000d01c1481b$903e3f80$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010928103808.A25371@cs.millersville.edu> <20010928102927.C2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010928114003.I2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 10:29:27AM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > For those in or near Austin, Cool River Cafe is *highly* recommended. > Good prices, EXCELLENT service, and they dont look down their nose > snootily at you when you come in in jeans and a tie-dyed tshirt to > shit next to froofy SUV-driving yuppies. I just now re-read this and noticed the typo. SIT. SIT. SIT. I meant SIT. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 11:41:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:41:08 -0500 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <20010928111514.I78369@zilla.nu> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> <007301c147ed$63c10560$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> <000d01c1481b$903e3f80$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010928103808.A25371@cs.millersville.edu> <20010928102927.C2460@mrbill.net> <20010928111514.I78369@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010928114108.J2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 11:15:14AM -0500, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 10:29:27AM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > > shit next to froofy SUV-driving yuppies. > Hey Bill! Check your age, location, job, and car. :) 27, Austin, sysadmin, and a Kia Sportage (doesent quite qualify as a SUV..) I ate a bag of pork rinds last night. That disqualifies me from being a yuppie. 8-) Oh, and I dont own a suit or a tie. Last time I wore one, was my wedding... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 11:41:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:41:52 -0500 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <9F2ABADBBA07D311BA2D0008C70718BB0579AF4D@DENNTEX003.qwest.net> References: <9F2ABADBBA07D311BA2D0008C70718BB0579AF4D@DENNTEX003.qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010928114152.K2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 10:13:29AM -0600, Zimmerman, Jim wrote: > For those in or near Austin, Cool River Cafe is *highly* recommended. > Good prices, EXCELLENT service, and they dont look down their nose > snootily at you when you come in in jeans and a tie-dyed tshirt to > shit next to froofy SUV-driving yuppies. > ^^^^ > I hope you didn't really mean that! I just a few minutes ago noticed the typo. doh. :s/hit/it/ Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 12:28:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 12:28:22 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Big 50: The Day the Earth Stood Still In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98243712969.20010928122822@crosswinds.net> >> Today marks the 50th Anniversary of the release of >> "The Day the Earth Stood Still". >> >> In my opinion, this is the best sci-fi movie ever >> made. BK> Klaatu barada *cough,cough*nikto*cough*. "Well I said most of it!" - Ash Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 12:50:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 18:50:33 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Anyone else having a month like mine? References: Message-ID: <004801c14846$1378a9b0$7100000a@deepthought> From: "Fogg, James" > Hey, at least you got all your shit outta the way at once. It could have > dribbled in across a full year. Oh yeah, I had one of those years in '96. My fiancee killed herself, my house burned down, my car blew up, and my grandfather died. Very bad year. > > Very sorry to hear about your mom. My mother fought for 18 years with the > cancer demon. > Well this is her thrid time around with it. We'll see how things go. If anyones tough enough to beat it it's her. > Is the Irish tiger still roaring? In other words, is there other work there > if you get the axe? Ireland is having what you might call a crisis of confidence right now. The economy is still in very good shape, but people are getting nervous so they stop spending as much money, which of course makes the economy slow down a bit, which makes people more nervous... you know the whole vicious circle thing. I personally wont get the ax unless the whole thing goes under since I'm the core of the company. I designed all the service offerings, write all the policies and procedures, manage all the techies etc... etc... but our managing director has decided to step down to save his salary and benefits and we will be directly managed by the director of the surviving JV partner. My new girlfriend wants me to move to Austin when she does at the beginning of the year. I'm seriously starting to think about it. I really like Ireland, but I dont know if I like the situation I'm in right now. Things will have to develop further before I really know. Chris Byrne From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 13:05:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: 28 Sep 2001 11:05:19 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Anyone else having a month like mine? In-Reply-To: <009a01c1481e$1b2e1c30$7100000a@deepthought> References: <009a01c1481e$1b2e1c30$7100000a@deepthought> Message-ID: <86snd7yyw0.fsf@koyote.cx> And to think, I'm just dealing with having been out of work for 5 months..... From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 13:18:50 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:18:50 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Anyone else having a month like mine? In-Reply-To: <004801c14846$1378a9b0$7100000a@deepthought> References: <004801c14846$1378a9b0$7100000a@deepthought> Message-ID: <20010928131850.N2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 06:50:33PM +0100, Chris Byrne wrote: > My new girlfriend wants me to move to Austin when she does at the beginning > of the year. I'm seriously starting to think about it. I really like > Ireland, but I dont know if I like the situation I'm in right now. Things > will have to develop further before I really know. I'd recommend against it at this point unless you want to end up washing dishes for a living. Right now there are NO hi-tech jobs available. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 13:38:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 14:38:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> <007301c147ed$63c10560$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> <000d01c1481b$903e3f80$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010928103808.A25371@cs.millersville.edu> <20010928102927.C2460@mrbill.net> <20010928111514.I78369@zilla.nu> <20010928114108.J2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <004e01c1484c$bd6f8000$0301a8c0@kensportege> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. > I ate a bag of pork rinds last night. That disqualifies me from being > a yuppie. 8-) Was this really a question? ;^) I suspect eating a bag of Pork Rinds qualifies your lower GI tract as a toxic waste area (but was there really a question about that either?) ;^) > Oh, and I dont own a suit or a tie. Last time I wore one, was > my wedding... That was last year - did you get married in a *borrowed* suit? ;^) A little humor before the weekend... Ken _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 13:49:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Big Endian) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 14:49:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie In-Reply-To: <20010928134208.R78369@zilla.nu> References: <20010928134208.R78369@zilla.nu> Message-ID: >I'm in need of a web log/diary/thingie that can be easily updated via >email, preferably with the capability to also handle attached images. www.yourgoingtohavetorollyourown.com daniel From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 14:03:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Greg A. Woods) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 15:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie In-Reply-To: References: <20010928134208.R78369@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010928190340.0D2A6ED@proven.weird.com> [ On Friday, September 28, 2001 at 14:49:41 (-0400), Big Endian wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie > > [ On Friday, September 28, 2001 at 13:42:08 (-0500), Reagen B . Ward wrote: ] > > Subject: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie > > > > I'm in need of a web log/diary/thingie that can be easily updated via > > email, preferably with the capability to also handle attached images. > > www.yourgoingtohavetorollyourown.com I dunno about that... Depending on Raegen's exact requirements, maybe even something like GNATS (with one of the many web front-ends) or Bugzilla, or something similar, will fulfill them.... There's not a lot of difference between problem tracking and ticketing systems and a "log/diary/thingie". -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 14:51:48 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 15:51:48 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> <007301c147ed$63c10560$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> <000d01c1481b$903e3f80$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010928103808.A25371@cs.millersville.edu> <20010928102927.C2460@mrbill.net> <20010928111514.I78369@zilla.nu> <20010928114108.J2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <01d101c14857$05c6e500$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > 27, Austin, sysadmin, and a Kia Sportage (doesent quite qualify as a > SUV..) > What!? I can't think of anything more SUV-y. How so? I mean - it's a little sporty, quite utilitarian, doesn't that account for the Sport Utility Vehicle monicker? That's like me saying "My Ford Taurus is not quite a family sedan...." :) Admit it, you're a yuppie. I'm a yuppie. A good portion of this list is yuppies. We don't have to like it - but it's, unfortuantely, true. Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 15:02:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 15:02:27 -0500 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <004e01c1484c$bd6f8000$0301a8c0@kensportege> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> <007301c147ed$63c10560$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> <000d01c1481b$903e3f80$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010928103808.A25371@cs.millersville.edu> <20010928102927.C2460@mrbill.net> <20010928111514.I78369@zilla.nu> <20010928114108.J2460@mrbill.net> <004e01c1484c$bd6f8000$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010928150227.R2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 02:38:16PM -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > That was last year - did you get married in a *borrowed* suit? ;^) Actually that was March 31st, ~7 months ago. I got married in a suit jacket, dress shirt, and pair of dress pants. I guess that qualifies as a "suit". The pants wore out and the cats peed on the jacket, so I tossed it.... Bill (why oh why do I have cats that go and pee on things when I piss them off?) -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 15:03:20 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 15:03:20 -0500 Subject: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie In-Reply-To: <20010928134208.R78369@zilla.nu> References: <20010928134208.R78369@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010928150320.S2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 01:42:08PM -0500, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > I'm in need of a web log/diary/thingie that can be easily updated via > email, preferably with the capability to also handle attached images. Hrm, good luck.. SunHELP is based on a highly-modified PHPWebLog (www.phpweblog.org). Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 15:11:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (bill pointon) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 16:11:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Big 50: The Day the Earth Stood Still References: <20010928083547.9138.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3BB4D964.8BC8C5CD@earthlink.net> klatu verada nicto "William S." wrote: > Today marks the 50th Anniversary of the release of > "The Day the Earth Stood Still". > > In my opinion, this is the best sci-fi movie ever > made. > > Bill > Amsterdam, NL > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. > http://phone.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 15:15:29 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 15:15:29 -0500 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <01d101c14857$05c6e500$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> <007301c147ed$63c10560$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> <000d01c1481b$903e3f80$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010928103808.A25371@cs.millersville.edu> <20010928102927.C2460@mrbill.net> <20010928111514.I78369@zilla.nu> <20010928114108.J2460@mrbill.net> <01d101c14857$05c6e500$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010928151529.T2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 03:51:48PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > 27, Austin, sysadmin, and a Kia Sportage (doesent quite qualify as a > > SUV..) > What!? I can't think of anything more SUV-y. How so? I mean - it's a > little sporty, quite utilitarian, doesn't that account for the Sport Utility > Vehicle monicker? I have the lame 2WD version. "hauls lots of shit, including the dog, and gets my fat ass from point A to point B". If I'd thought it out better, I would have just bought an old Volvo station wagon. > Admit it, you're a yuppie. I'm a yuppie. A good portion of this list is > yuppies. We don't have to like it - but it's, unfortuantely, true. My image of "yuppie" is somewhat in the middle of all these: - David Spade in "P.C.U." - Michael J. Fox in "Family Ties" - Suit jacket, dress shoes, very Young Republican - shops at the Gap, J. Crew, etc. - Woman who weighs 95 lbs driving a Ford Expedition to the grocery store, talking on her cell phone the entire way, SLOWING DOWN to go over the railroad tracks, with a "MY (SON|DAUGHTER) IS A (LOCAL SCHOOL) (SOCCER|FOOTBALL|CHEERLEADING) STAR AND HONOR ROLL STUDENT" window sticker or bumper sticker - etc I drive a Kia Sportage (definitely not a BMW) with a broken tape player, TiVo sticker in the window, and a small American flag on a window-mount bracket sticking up from the rear passenger window. Most of my clothes are from Wal-Mart or Casual Male Big and Tall. I'm wearing a year-old pair of Doc Martens, and I bought my wedding ring at Zales in the mall. ("I cant be a yuppie, I've had my hand up a cow's ass...") I grew up in a town so small (~3000 people) that when my mom was sick and not at work one day, the UPS delivery guy drove the four blocks from her office to our house, to deliver a package - because he knew where we lived (one UPS guy for the whole town). A town so small that EVERYONE knew me or my mother (I hated this after a while.). A town where the traffic tickets and police log was printed in one column of the paper every day. I went to college in a town that had (*gasp*) 10,000 people, to a school with a total enrollment of 3000, and then had minor culture shock when I moved to Oklahoma City in 1995, then on to Austin in late '96. My first night in Austin, I was supposed to get to town, then call my employer, who would fix me up with a place to stay while I found an apartment. Well, I got to town (10pm at night, never having driven in such traffic before - I found out later a UT Football game had just gotten out), and the number he gave me was wrong/disconnected. Luckily I had the phone number of the only other person I knew in town, and gave them a call. (He was a friend off of the SWGoths list, and at the time I was gradually getting un-goth). I managed to crash at his house (where a party was going on), and we all got up (most of the people, mind you, in full "Goth Regalia") and went to have breakfast somewhere at 6am. We ended up, on a Saturday morning, at Magnolia Cafe, a little 24-hour joint on the south end of town. Picture six full-dress goths (some of us big, some small, some almost indecent) piling out of a Jeep Cherokee to stumble in and order breakfast. In Oklahoma, this would have caused quite a ruckus, or at least some raised eyes, some muttered commemnts, or perhaps even "I'm sorry, you'll have to go elsewhere, we dont serve your kind". In Austin - the waitress, who had a tongue piercing, looked at us and said "You guys DEFINITELY had a rough night; lemme get some coffee and I'll be right back". Later, she complimented one guy on his makeup. I fell in love with this town right then, and bought a house here in February of '99. I "fell out" with the local Goth crowd (too much politics, etc) in late '98, but by then I had Amy and all of my friends from the SunHELP lists. 8-) (okay, enough rambling...) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 15:35:29 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Al Potter) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 16:35:29 -0400 Subject: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:50:57 CDT." <20010928135057.S78369@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <200109282035.f8SKZUn03754@da4.icsa.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ward at zilla.nu said: > >I'm in need of a web log/diary/thingie that can be easily updated via > >email, preferably with the capability to also handle attached images. > > www.yourgoingtohavetorollyourown.com Why not set up a mailing list with yourself as the only member (mailman?), get one of those automatic archivers going (mailman builtin) and just NOT forbid attachments (I think mailman can do this). AL -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 iQCVAwUBO7TfEduN3h5YyVRRAQJfDQQAt24NshGkCLaZ1RYr9p4IzrZ7VOvdv1Gw Hbx8jXmeb6DHF2SqltaUQseStBlXkvzE16372yXJPoN1TGZ21TiQr3V52ya+M47P UPZwgzUfHggooePTikxd3FNTFP+jny/oJaXau8JjDIVHQZbFfoPWRcUnCatmGfbe FSK0qm09lJo= =dc2C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 15:44:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Mosiejczuk) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 16:44:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <20010928114003.I2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > > shit next to froofy SUV-driving yuppies. > I just now re-read this and noticed the typo. > SIT. SIT. SIT. I meant SIT. I just saw you correct the other guy who called you on it. It felt like when a friend doesn't catch you are joking and corrects you... you just wait for a minute and they catch up. And then 2 emails later, is Bill catching up =) --Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 15:47:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 16:47:55 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <20010928151529.T2460@mrbill.net> References: <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> <007301c147ed$63c10560$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> <000d01c1481b$903e3f80$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010928103808.A25371@cs.millersville.edu> <20010928102927.C2460@mrbill.net> <20010928111514.I78369@zilla.nu> <20010928114108.J2460@mrbill.net> <01d101c14857$05c6e500$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010928151529.T2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010928164755.A4489@cs.millersville.edu> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 03:15:29PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > > Admit it, you're a yuppie. I'm a yuppie. A good portion of this list is > > yuppies. We don't have to like it - but it's, unfortuantely, true. > > My image of "yuppie" is somewhat in the middle of all these: > > - David Spade in "P.C.U." > - Michael J. Fox in "Family Ties" > - Suit jacket, dress shoes, very Young Republican Suit jackets are out. Now it is Polo shirts and Kahki pants with deck shoes, at least in my mind, although Doc Marten-esque shoes are rapidly being subverted for yuppie usage also. > - shops at the Gap, J. Crew, etc. > - Woman who weighs 95 lbs driving a Ford Expedition to the grocery > store, talking on her cell phone the entire way, SLOWING DOWN to > go over the railroad tracks, with a "MY (SON|DAUGHTER) IS A (LOCAL SCHOOL) > (SOCCER|FOOTBALL|CHEERLEADING) STAR AND HONOR ROLL STUDENT" window sticker > or bumper sticker > - etc Actually has a cell phone and a PDA would be another common point for that list. I consider it all the more important to avoid getting a cell phone now that I have a Palm. BTW, today's yuppie frequently seems to be last years preppy. > ("I cant be a yuppie, I've had my hand up a cow's ass...") Eww. That's just plain disgusting. -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 16:22:10 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Fogg, James) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 14:22:10 -0700 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. Message-ID: > > Admit it, you're a yuppie. I'm a yuppie. A good portion > of this list is > > yuppies. We don't have to like it - but it's, unfortuantely, true. I can't be a yuppie, I have no college degree, I fix all my own plumbing/electrical/carpentry/etc., my SUV is old and small, (Suzuki), and I can't be a yuppie, cause I ain't urban! I live in a town of less than 1000 people, keep dawgs and sheeps and anything furry and cute (but no cats, lov'em, but can't stand cat piss). However, I make a yuppie techno wage, own a couple of suits and keep my hair short (a new idea brought on by gradual baldness). The suits are for fancy events, the usual mode is denim and boots (and lumber-jack flannel in the winter). From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 16:35:53 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 17:35:53 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010927071347.030e1e80@bur-po1.genuity.com> <86pu8cqyh1.fsf@koyote.cx> <00e401c147cd$3c41d660$0301a8c0@kensportege> <007301c147ed$63c10560$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> <000d01c1481b$903e3f80$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010928103808.A25371@cs.millersville.edu> <20010928102927.C2460@mrbill.net> <20010928111514.I78369@zilla.nu> <20010928114108.J2460@mrbill.net> <01d101c14857$05c6e500$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010928151529.T2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <024a01c14865$901c6000$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > My image of "yuppie" is somewhat in the middle of all these: > Nod. My image of yuppie is more pragmatic - late-twenties/early-thirties, above average income, comfortable living, lots of toys. That's probably why I consider myself a yuppie - even if my attitude is more Joe Dirt than M. J. Fox. Consider - to a construction worker, I *am* a yuppie :) I've even been called a yuppie once - by a freind who fixes cars for a living. I told him if he used a computer for more than surfing for pr0n he might be a yuppie too.... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 16:50:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 17:50:23 -0400 Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. References: Message-ID: <026f01c14867$96d6dea0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > > However, I make a yuppie techno wage, own a couple of suits and keep my hair > short (a new idea brought on by gradual baldness). The suits are for fancy > events, the usual mode is denim and boots (and lumber-jack flannel in the > winter). That's kinda where I was going with this. I also have no degree, grew up on farms, and I wear t-shirts, Vans, and ripped jeans to the office (when I go). My $PHB title pushes me close to edge into yuppiedom, as does my sensible family sedan (Taurus). The PT Cruiser launched me right over and branded me a yuppie forever. If I could only get out of the suburbs, I might make some recovery... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 18:20:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 18:20:12 -0500 Subject: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie In-Reply-To: <20010928181001.X78369@zilla.nu> References: <20010928135057.S78369@zilla.nu> <200109282035.f8SKZUn03754@da4.icsa.net> <20010928181001.X78369@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010928182012.Y2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 06:10:02PM -0500, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > An excellent idea. Does mailman allow image display, etc? Nope; the archiver just treats it as straight text. HOWEVER, you can use pretty much any archiver you like - maybe hypermail? BTW, anybody think a geeks/rescue search engine on the archives would be useful? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 19:08:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 19:08:43 -0500 Subject: [geeks] [kevin@inscoe.org: [cfgeeks] FUTURE OF WWV AND WWVH TIME SIGNALS] Message-ID: <20010928190843.D2460@mrbill.net> I normally dont forward stuff. but y'all need to take the survey. 8-) KEEP WWV! Bill ----- Forwarded message from Kevin Inscoe ----- To: cfgeeks at yahoogroups.com From: Kevin Inscoe Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 08:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: cfgeeks at yahoogroups.com Subject: [cfgeeks] FUTURE OF WWV AND WWVH TIME SIGNALS We need to keep this! We really do and not just for time sake for calibration of receivers sake as well. And please don't remind me yet again about how GPS has the time code yes I know that but what if the bird fails? ~kevin --- "Dave Armbrust, AE4MR" wrote: > From: "Dave Armbrust, AE4MR" > To: "FL Ham" > Subject: [FLham] FUTURE OF WWV AND WWVH TIME SIGNALS > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:12:35 -0400 > Reply-to: "Dave Armbrust, AE4MR" > > FUTURE OF WWV AND WWVH TIME SIGNALS > > The National Institute of Standards and Technology > (NIST) is > conducting a survey of WWV and WWVH listeners to > find out how they > use the standard time and frequency broadcast > services. > > September 30th is the deadline for completing the > survey, > which is available on the Web at > http://www.timesurvey.nist.gov/ > -- and that deadline is fast approaching. > > John P. Lowe, leader of NIST's Time and Frequency > Services Group, > insists that a shutdown of WWV is not imminent. But > he confirmed to > Sky & Telescope reader Bob Konior that the data > collected could > ultimately be used to determine whether WWV and WWVH > remain on the > air -- especially given the popularity of NIST's > other outlets. (For > example, its Web-based time server gets in excess of > 3 million hits a > day.) The last WWV-WWVH user survey was conducted in > 1985. > > "Those amateurs who use this radio time service to > time events will be > left to their own devices if this service is removed > from the air," > comments Konior. > > We urge amateur and professional astronomers who > rely on highly > accurate shortwave time signals to participate in > the survey so > their views will be known. > > 73-- > Dave Armbrust - AE4MR > ARRL WCF Section Manager > (941)378-1701 Fax: (941)929-0040 > > > --- > Submissions flham at qth.net > > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 19:28:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 20:28:18 -0400 Subject: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie References: <20010928134208.R78369@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <001501c1487d$a3afbdc0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Private news server? Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reagen B . Ward" To: "SunHelp Geeks List" Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 2:42 PM Subject: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie > I'm in need of a web log/diary/thingie that can be easily updated via > email, preferably with the capability to also handle attached images. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 19:44:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 10:44:34 +1000 (EST) Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: Arrg.. Startrek don't SPEAK to me about startrek.. Channel nine in .au has yet to show two series's of DS9.... Grant Diffey aka "nevyn" President of Computerbank Victoria Inc. http://www.computerbank.org.au/ On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: >I like this show more than any other Star Trek I've ever seen. >Its great without being geeky, and gritty enough to not seem like >a morals play (e.g., ST:TNG). > >I'm looking forward to next week. > >Bill > >-- >Bill Bradford >mrbill at mrbill.net >Austin, TX >_______________________________________________ >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 19:44:34 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 10:44:34 +1000 (EST) Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: Arrg.. Startrek don't SPEAK to me about startrek.. Channel nine in .au has yet to show two series's of DS9.... Grant Diffey aka "nevyn" President of Computerbank Victoria Inc. http://www.computerbank.org.au/ On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: >I like this show more than any other Star Trek I've ever seen. >Its great without being geeky, and gritty enough to not seem like >a morals play (e.g., ST:TNG). > >I'm looking forward to next week. > >Bill > >-- >Bill Bradford >mrbill at mrbill.net >Austin, TX >_______________________________________________ >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 19:46:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 20:46:52 EDT Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. References: <20010928102927.C2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <01385204652.dave.13386@cca.org> mrbill at mrbill.net writes: >I'll always prefer a place with mediocre food and good service over >somewplace with great food and shitty service. >For those in or near Austin, Cool River Cafe is *highly* recommended. >Good prices, EXCELLENT service, and they dont look down their nose >snootily at you when you come in in jeans and a tie-dyed tshirt to >shit next to froofy SUV-driving yuppies. My favourite restaurant in Providence used to be this tiny family-run Cambodian place, but they sold it last fall and the new owners suck. There's a Mexican place near my house where spanish gang members hang out and sometimes people glare out you like they're going to kill you, but the food is fantastic. I'll only go there with people who I know are comfortable with this section of town. (Nervousness attracts trouble.) The only "nice" somewhat expensive restaurant I like is owned by a friend, so I know everyone who works there, most of the customers at the cheap meals (brunch, but not dinner), and my artwork is all over the walls. Maybe 1/4 of the time they don't let me pay. :-) -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- ------------------------ I like making new friends. ------------------------ -- I make them out of clay and bring them to life with a blood sacrifice. -- From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 19:55:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Ekholm) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 19:55:58 -0500 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: ; from dmuran@worldnet.att.net on Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 10:16:41PM -0400 References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010928195558.A10823@ekholm.org> I hate to say it - you are not the only one that has something for her. When watching i noticed something - and got a dump of it. http://www.ekholm.org/tent.jpg you all remember the rub down scene, right? :-) On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 10:16:41PM -0400, D.A. Muran-de Assereto wrote: > And the Vulcan is a serious babe, too. :) > > Dave Muran-de Assereto > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: geeks-admin at sunhelp.org [mailto:geeks-admin at sunhelp.org]On Behalf > > Of Bill Bradford > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 21:59 > > To: geeks at mrbill.net > > Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" > > > > > > I like this show more than any other Star Trek I've ever seen. > > Its great without being geeky, and gritty enough to not seem like > > a morals play (e.g., ST:TNG). > > > > I'm looking forward to next week. > > > > Bill > > > > -- > > Bill Bradford > > mrbill at mrbill.net > > Austin, TX > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -Mike Ekholm -- UNIX Sys Admin | ekholm at ekholm.org | http://www.ekholm.org | IRC: Nalez ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's hard to find people in society who can administer UNIX and professionally carry a weapon." - Jim Williams, former FBI Computer Intrusion Squad agent From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 19:59:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 19:59:27 -0500 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <20010928195558.A10823@ekholm.org> References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> <20010928195558.A10823@ekholm.org> Message-ID: <20010928195927.G2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 07:55:58PM -0500, Mike Ekholm wrote: > http://www.ekholm.org/tent.jpg > you all remember the rub down scene, right? > :-) You have WAY too much free time... BIll -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 20:11:23 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Ekholm) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 20:11:23 -0500 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" In-Reply-To: <20010928195927.G2460@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 07:59:27PM -0500 References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> <20010928195558.A10823@ekholm.org> <20010928195927.G2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010928201123.A10908@ekholm.org> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 07:59:27PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 07:55:58PM -0500, Mike Ekholm wrote: > > http://www.ekholm.org/tent.jpg > > you all remember the rub down scene, right? > > :-) > > You have WAY too much free time... Naah, just saw it, said to myself "wtf was that", saw it again, and then got a screenshot of it. -Mike Ekholm -- UNIX Sys Admin | ekholm at ekholm.org | http://www.ekholm.org | IRC: Nalez ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's hard to find people in society who can administer UNIX and professionally carry a weapon." - Jim Williams, former FBI Computer Intrusion Squad agent From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 21:00:30 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:00:30 -0400 Subject: [geeks] HP dumps HP-UX on Itanium (from slashdot) Message-ID: <00c801c1488b$9b479be0$0301a8c0@kensportege> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01C14868.FD509580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable see http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=3D01/09/28/1517220&mode=3Dthread Quote: A reader writes "On Tuesday HP announced that it is closing a lab in NJ. = This was an HP-UX development lab, responsible for porting HP-UX to = IA64. The lab employed top engineers, including some who have worked in = Unix kernels for over 20 years (originally from Bell Labs, Novell, and = other companies). " That report came from a soon-to-be former employee.=20 Ken ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01C14868.FD509580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
see http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=3D01/09/28/1517220&mode=3D= thread
 
Quote:
 
A reader writes "On Tuesday HP announced= =20 that it is closing a lab in NJ. This was an HP-UX development lab,=20 responsible for porting HP-UX to IA64. The lab employed top engineers, = including=20 some who have worked in Unix kernels for over 20 years (originally from = Bell=20 Labs, Novell, and other companies). " That report came from a = soon-to-be=20 former employee.
 
Ken
------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01C14868.FD509580-- From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 21:08:10 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 02:08:10 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Fogg, James wrote: > events, the usual mode is denim and boots (and lumber-jack flannel in the > winter). I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok.... ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 21:10:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 28 Sep 2001 19:10:52 -0700 Subject: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie In-Reply-To: <20010928181001.X78369@zilla.nu> References: <20010928135057.S78369@zilla.nu> <200109282035.f8SKZUn03754@da4.icsa.net> <20010928181001.X78369@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <1001729452.3387.0.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Fri, 2001-09-28 at 16:10, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 04:35:29PM -0400, Al Potter wrote: > > > Why not set up a mailing list with yourself as the only member (mailman?), get > > one of those automatic archivers going (mailman builtin) and just NOT forbid > > attachments (I think mailman can do this). > > An excellent idea. Does mailman allow image display, etc? You'll need to replace the built-in archiver with something that "doesn't suck". I think mhonarc is pretty good. Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 21:14:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 28 Sep 2001 19:14:14 -0700 Subject: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie In-Reply-To: <20010928182012.Y2460@mrbill.net> References: <20010928135057.S78369@zilla.nu> <200109282035.f8SKZUn03754@da4.icsa.net> <20010928181001.X78369@zilla.nu> <20010928182012.Y2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <1001729655.3389.5.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> On Fri, 2001-09-28 at 16:20, Bill Bradford wrote: > BTW, anybody think a geeks/rescue search engine on the archives would > be useful? Yep, I certainly do. I dig through my local archives for things all the time. Sometimes I point the folks on gimpnet to a piece of the archives for a "gem of wisdom". I really like some of the customizations that J C Lawrence has done on his mailman-based archives. He's even written up instructions on how he set things up. I've got details archived here. Greg From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 21:43:08 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 19:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] HP dumps HP-UX on Itanium (from slashdot) In-Reply-To: <00c801c1488b$9b479be0$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > A reader writes "On Tuesday HP announced that it is closing a lab in > NJ. This was an HP-UX development lab, responsible for porting HP-UX > to IA64. The lab employed top engineers, including some who have > worked in Unix kernels for over 20 years (originally from Bell Labs, > Novell, and other companies). " That report came from a soon-to-be > former employee. Hmmm... Could mean that they are: A) Going to go with True64 on IA64. B) Realizing that IA64 will truly SUCK, and are focusing on PA-RISC. C) Just fucking clueless. I vote C, as HP gets my "we have no set direction" award. What ever happened to Superdome, anyhow? -Pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 21:58:06 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 19:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [rescue] Re: [geeks] HP dumps HP-UX on Itanium (from slashdot) In-Reply-To: <20010928214956.L78369@zilla.nu> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > including those running HP-UX, but IA64 just doesn't meet the hype. It > could have been something amazing, but Intel pulled a Motorola. beg pardon? I don't remember motorola making a chip that draws more power then an *entire* sparc5... -pete From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 22:00:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 23:00:57 -0400 Subject: [geeks] HP dumps HP-UX on Itanium (from slashdot) References: Message-ID: <031601c14892$f9c49680$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > I vote C, as HP gets my "we have no set direction" award. What ever > happened to Superdome, anyhow? > HP gets my "our wintel stuff sucks ass" award. My Mother-in-Law has returned her HP Pavillion no less than *4* times to circuit city due to hardware failure. Maybe there's a reason why those are always offered in the MSN rebate specials. When I was field tech with a contractor doing HP field repair, we made several bold attempts to stay in the HP business, but had to discontinue field support of HP's Wintel hardware. It simply wasn't cost effective - we lost money on every call.... Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 22:12:24 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:12:24 -0500 Subject: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie In-Reply-To: <1001729655.3389.5.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> References: <20010928135057.S78369@zilla.nu> <200109282035.f8SKZUn03754@da4.icsa.net> <20010928181001.X78369@zilla.nu> <20010928182012.Y2460@mrbill.net> <1001729655.3389.5.camel@peecee.linuxweasel.com> Message-ID: <20010928221224.W2460@mrbill.net> URL to his instructions? Bill On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 07:14:14PM -0700, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > On Fri, 2001-09-28 at 16:20, Bill Bradford wrote: > > BTW, anybody think a geeks/rescue search engine on the archives would > > be useful? > > Yep, I certainly do. I dig through my local archives for things all the > time. Sometimes I point the folks on gimpnet to a piece of the archives > for a "gem of wisdom". I really like some of the customizations that J > C Lawrence has done on his mailman-based archives. He's even written up > instructions on how he set things up. I've got details archived here. > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 22:15:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 23:15:49 -0400 Subject: [geeks] HP dumps HP-UX on Itanium (from slashdot) References: Message-ID: <001d01c14895$0a6fa360$0301a8c0@kensportege> If you read the article, they *stole* (recruited) these folks from all the top shops (AT&T/Lucent, SCO, others) - these guys were working on porting HP-UX applications to IA-64 technology... Maybe, if they were working on porting HP-UX to Alpha their careers would be different... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter L. Wargo" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] HP dumps HP-UX on Itanium (from slashdot) > On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Ken Hansen wrote: > > > A reader writes "On Tuesday HP announced that it is closing a lab in > > NJ. This was an HP-UX development lab, responsible for porting HP-UX > > to IA64. The lab employed top engineers, including some who have > > worked in Unix kernels for over 20 years (originally from Bell Labs, > > Novell, and other companies). " That report came from a soon-to-be > > former employee. > > Hmmm... Could mean that they are: > A) Going to go with True64 on IA64. > B) Realizing that IA64 will truly SUCK, and are focusing on PA-RISC. > C) Just fucking clueless. > > I vote C, as HP gets my "we have no set direction" award. What ever > happened to Superdome, anyhow? > > -Pete > > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 22:43:31 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:43:31 -0500 Subject: [geeks] HP dumps HP-UX on Itanium (from slashdot) In-Reply-To: <20010928221623.N78369@zilla.nu> References: <001d01c14895$0a6fa360$0301a8c0@kensportege> <20010928221623.N78369@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <20010928224330.Y2460@mrbill.net> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 10:16:23PM -0500, Reagen B . Ward wrote: > HP still plans to keep Compaq's decision to EOL the Alpha, no? At work (a big Sun/Alpha shop), we figured that was part of the *deal* - Compaq had to dump the alpha for the deal to go forward. Keep in mind this acquisition has been under discussions for *18 months*. Looks like all the "good" features of the Alpha will end up rolled into the next revision of Itanium, though.. so it basically *will be* Alpha. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 22:59:12 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 20:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] My gross X-Rays... Message-ID: I added a link to my home page, but here they finally are: http://homepage.mac.com/pwargo/PhotoAlbum2.html I made sure the finger ones were nice and clear for Bill's sake. :-) -Pete ----- Peter L. Wargo pwargo at basenji.com Owner/operator of basenji.com. "Zamfier has sold more records than the Indigo Girls. As it should be." From geeks at sunhelp.org Fri Sep 28 23:11:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kris Kirby) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 04:11:15 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] HP dumps HP-UX on Itanium (from slashdot) In-Reply-To: <031601c14892$f9c49680$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Kurt Huhn wrote: > HP gets my "our wintel stuff sucks ass" award. My Mother-in-Law has > returned her HP Pavillion no less than *4* times to circuit city due to > hardware failure. Maybe there's a reason why those are always offered in > the MSN rebate specials. > > When I was field tech with a contractor doing HP field repair, we made > several bold attempts to stay in the HP business, but had to discontinue > field support of HP's Wintel hardware. It simply wasn't cost effective - we > lost money on every call.... This has much more to do with the OEM than you think. I used to work in the plant that made Vectras; we built Pavillions when low on orders. You name it. Hard drives were dropped and still installed, ESD spec violated, rough handling, etc. The generally poor design in regards to cooling made them prone to failure as well. The number one contributing factor that I can think of is the over all quality of the parts -- most were rock-bottom cheap, and to this say I wonder how a few Vectras made it out with (stripped) ASUS motherboards. I remember building the 550MHz machine when it first came out. Woah. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 06:17:51 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 06:17:51 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Big 50: The Day the Earth Stood Still In-Reply-To: <20010928103012.D2460@mrbill.net> References: <20010928083547.9138.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> <20010928101532.H78369@zilla.nu> <20010928103012.D2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <192307892225.20010929061751@crosswinds.net> BB> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 10:15:32AM -0500, Reagen B . Ward wrote: >> She likes electronics stores (EPO in Houston), doesn't mind computers >> and cables, lets me leave tubes and wires (and careful notes) strewn >> about without tidying them up, but she is definately missing the guy >> movie gene. BB> Dude. Do what I did last week. Watch a chick movie with her! BB> We PPV'ed "Chocolat". To my amazement, I *really liked it*. My wife and I saw that in the theatre. I was surprised - it had just enough of a 'magic' content to keep me interested. Dame Judith was wonderful! That reminds me - I still owe her another chick flick... Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 06:24:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Hebel) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 06:24:02 -0500 Subject: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie In-Reply-To: <20010928134208.R78369@zilla.nu> References: <20010928134208.R78369@zilla.nu> Message-ID: <59308262893.20010929062402@crosswinds.net> RBW> I'm in need of a web log/diary/thingie that can be easily updated via RBW> email, preferably with the capability to also handle attached images. It's not that small or simple but you _might_ be able to use Scoop. I think you could adjust something to allow e-mail based updates. IANASD - I Am Not A Scoop Developer. Just my $.02 worth. Mike Hebel mailto:drone8of9 at crosswinds.net http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.html http://drone8of9.crosswinds.net/documents/Mike_Hebel_Current_3.doc From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 07:28:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 08:28:04 -0400 Subject: [geeks] emailable web log/diary/thingie In-Reply-To: <20010928182012.Y2460@mrbill.net> References: <20010928135057.S78369@zilla.nu> <200109282035.f8SKZUn03754@da4.icsa.net> <20010928181001.X78369@zilla.nu> <20010928182012.Y2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010929082804.A18634@cs.millersville.edu> On Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 06:20:12PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > BTW, anybody think a geeks/rescue search engine on the archives would > be useful? Extremely usefull for finding gear talked about in messages with incorrect subject lines -- Joshua D. Boyd From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 09:17:44 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (William S.) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 07:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] All this talk of music has me playing stuff from the '70s.. In-Reply-To: <01385204652.dave.13386@cca.org> Message-ID: <20010929141744.70437.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Here is Amsterdam, NL, me and my SO usually go to "Gaucho's" which is an Argentinian steak house. We are there just about every Saturday night (Not this time, I am home sick with a severe allergy/cold thingy.). Back a couple visits the manager came out with a complimentary bottle of wine to take with us. Nice gesture I think. Good food and good service is appreciated. Bill --- dave at cca.org wrote: > My favourite restaurant in Providence used to be > this tiny family-run > Cambodian place, but they sold it last fall and the > new owners suck. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 09:36:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 09:36:09 -0500 Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME Message-ID: <20010929093609.B2460@mrbill.net> Read below for what I just posted to austin.general. I am *so* pissed off right now. ---- I was at Fry's yesterday, went to the Mac section, and asked the sales guy on duty if they would have MacOS 10.1 available tomorrow. His words: "Yes, both the full and upgrade versions. The upgrade CD kits will be free. We have plenty, but Apple wont let us put them out until Saturday morning." I asked him what time they opened on Saturday, and he said 8am. I get to Fry's at 7:50 this morning, and find four other like-minded individuals waiting by the front door to get their upgrade copies as well. We're informed by every employee that goes in, "Oh, we dont open till 9, no matter what someone told you." So, we tough it out. Waited outside until 9am. By 8:50, the line out front had grown to at least 50 people, most of whom were there for their OSX 10.1 upgrade CDs. 9:05 gets around, they finally let us in. The group moves en masse to the Mac section of the store, where the sales guy points to the full retail copy of 10.1 on the shelf, for $129. "no, we came for the free upgrade CD set" "Sorry, we dont have any." I'm surprised there wasnt a riot at this point. At least five of us had been waiting for over an hour. Quite a few people waited out front at least thirty minutes. Store employees *knew* why people were lining up out front, but yet they didnt come out and say "oh, we dont have the upgrade CD sets". According to the "spokesperson" who was dealing with the crowd inside the store, "They're in the system, but they havent arrived at this store yet, and they'll have to go through receiving, etc." More than one person asked him in front of the group "Why'd your people lie to us? Why'd you make us wait?" and he just shrugged. "All we have available is the full retail version here..." I wouldnt be surprised if they *did* have them, stuck on a shelf in back, but wanted to try to make people buy the full version if they were desperate. The same guy ended up taking people's names and phone numbers down, but I know there's a snowball's chance in hell that I'll get a phone call when the upgrade CD set arrives. I'll probalby get it QUICKER by paying $20 to Apple and waiting six weeks. I'd also been planning on doing some shopping after I got my upgrade CDs - instead, I walked out. It may be quite a while before I give Fry's any more of my money. Not only did they waste an hour and a half of my time on a Saturday morning, they've really pissed me off. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 09:58:49 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (William S.) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 07:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME In-Reply-To: <20010929093609.B2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010929145849.20327.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Why doesn't Apple offer the upgrade via download? People with broadband could probably FTP it pretty quickly that way. Bill Amsterdam, NL --- Bill Bradford wrote: > > Read below for what I just posted to austin.general. > I am *so* pissed > off right now. > > ---- > > I was at Fry's yesterday, went to the Mac section, > and asked the sales guy . . . __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 10:01:25 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 10:01:25 -0500 Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME In-Reply-To: <20010929145849.20327.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010929093609.B2460@mrbill.net> <20010929145849.20327.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010929100125.D2460@mrbill.net> On Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 07:58:49AM -0700, William S. wrote: > Why doesn't Apple offer the upgrade via download? > People with broadband could probably FTP it pretty > quickly that way. Its at least 450meg. Thats why its a CD set. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 10:29:10 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 11:29:10 -0400 Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME References: <20010929093609.B2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <000701c148fb$7d198460$0301a8c0@kensportege> Bill, IIRC, everyone from California (Fry's homeland) warned you that having a Fry's was a mixed blessing at best. The honeymoon is over - reality has set in. Sorry. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: ; Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 10:36 AM Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME > > Read below for what I just posted to austin.general. I am *so* pissed > off right now. > > ---- > > I was at Fry's yesterday, went to the Mac section, and asked the sales guy > on duty if they would have MacOS 10.1 available tomorrow. His words: "Yes, > both the full and upgrade versions. The upgrade CD kits will be free. We > have plenty, but Apple wont let us put them out until Saturday morning." > I'd also been planning on doing some shopping after I got my upgrade > CDs - instead, I walked out. It may be quite a while before I give Fry's any more of my money. Not only did they waste an hour and a half > of my time on a Saturday morning, they've really pissed me off. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 10:36:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 10:36:09 -0500 Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME In-Reply-To: <000701c148fb$7d198460$0301a8c0@kensportege> References: <20010929093609.B2460@mrbill.net> <000701c148fb$7d198460$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010929103609.F2460@mrbill.net> On Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 11:29:10AM -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > IIRC, everyone from California (Fry's homeland) warned you that having a > Fry's was a mixed blessing at best. > The honeymoon is over - reality has set in. Crappy service and having to maybe take refurb products back I can deal with. Outright *LIES* to *direct questions*, is another. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 11:11:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 17:11:03 +0100 Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME In-Reply-To: <20010929145849.20327.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com>; from wilby98@yahoo.com on Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 07:58:49AM -0700 References: <20010929093609.B2460@mrbill.net> <20010929145849.20327.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010929171102.F25930@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 07:58:49AM -0700, William S. wrote: > Why doesn't Apple offer the upgrade via download? > People with broadband could probably FTP it pretty > quickly that way. Would you want N hundred thousand people downloading M hundred megabytes at the same time? -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Educating this luser would be something to frustrate even the unflappable Yoda and make him jam a lightsaber up his arse while screaming "praise evil, the Dark Side is your friend!". -- Derek Balling, in the Monastery From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 11:12:02 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 17:12:02 +0100 Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME In-Reply-To: <20010929100125.D2460@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 10:01:25AM -0500 References: <20010929093609.B2460@mrbill.net> <20010929145849.20327.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> <20010929100125.D2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010929171202.G25930@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 10:01:25AM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 07:58:49AM -0700, William S. wrote: > > Why doesn't Apple offer the upgrade via download? > > People with broadband could probably FTP it pretty > > quickly that way. > > Its at least 450meg. Thats why its a CD set. Anyone have an ISO I can dl? -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david If a job's worth doing, it's worth dieing for From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 12:07:22 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Ekholm) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 12:07:22 -0500 Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME In-Reply-To: <20010929100125.D2460@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 10:01:25AM -0500 References: <20010929093609.B2460@mrbill.net> <20010929145849.20327.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> <20010929100125.D2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010929120722.A12576@ekholm.org> On Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 10:01:25AM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 07:58:49AM -0700, William S. wrote: > > Why doesn't Apple offer the upgrade via download? > > People with broadband could probably FTP it pretty > > quickly that way. > > Its at least 450meg. Thats why its a CD set. Yeah? so what, a 3 or 4 hour download? IMHO they should make ISO's or something avalable. -Mike Ekholm -- UNIX Sys Admin | ekholm at ekholm.org | http://www.ekholm.org | IRC: Nalez ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's hard to find people in society who can administer UNIX and professionally carry a weapon." - Jim Williams, former FBI Computer Intrusion Squad agent From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 12:17:19 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 13:17:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME In-Reply-To: <20010929103609.F2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: That sounds like SOP at fries (outright lies). Nick On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 11:29:10AM -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > > IIRC, everyone from California (Fry's homeland) warned you that having a > > Fry's was a mixed blessing at best. > > The honeymoon is over - reality has set in. > > Crappy service and having to maybe take refurb products back I can > deal with. Outright *LIES* to *direct questions*, is another. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 12:35:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 13:35:43 -0400 Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME References: <20010929093609.B2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <03e501c1490d$2da44f70$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > I'd also been planning on doing some shopping after I got my upgrade > CDs - instead, I walked out. It may be quite a while before I give Fry's > any more of my money. Not only did they waste an hour and a half > of my time on a Saturday morning, they've really pissed me off. > I hate to say it Bill, but you found out what millions of Bay Area residents already knew. Fry's is notorious for bait-n-switch operations - as well as questionable advertising. Sometimes it works against them: My dad and I both saw a 25" television listed in a local Fry's ad (when I was living in Livermore down the street from The LLL) for $189 - a very good price for the name brand (Sony I think, not sure, was a few years ago). The way the ad was lined up, the price "$189" was next to the 25" TV - anyone with, or without, half a brain would have assumed that 25" TV was priced at $189. Upon going to Fry's and asking for the $25" TV for $189, we were informed that it was a mistake in the ad layout - the TV we were inquiring about was actually $350. Naganna happen... My dad and I were righly pissed, especially after waiting in line for 2 hours to be the first ones in line to each get one of the "limited stock on hand". Between the two of us threatening to call the BBB, the local police, the this, the that, so on and so forth - we finally walked out with two 25" TVs for $189 each. Fry's must have be used to having customers roll over and pay whatever they're told when they get to the store - and defenitely were not counting on a couple of hicks from Ohio (pronounced "Ahia" if you're talking to me...). My wife's stepfather has been on similar adventures, he always get's his way - ever hear a crotchety 50 year old Irish man curse - my gracious!!! Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 12:42:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 12:42:47 -0500 Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME In-Reply-To: <20010929120722.A12576@ekholm.org> References: <20010929093609.B2460@mrbill.net> <20010929145849.20327.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> <20010929100125.D2460@mrbill.net> <20010929120722.A12576@ekholm.org> Message-ID: <20010929124247.G2460@mrbill.net> On Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 12:07:22PM -0500, Mike Ekholm wrote: > > Its at least 450meg. Thats why its a CD set. > Yeah? so what, a 3 or 4 hour download? IMHO they should make ISO's or > something avalable. > -Mike Ekholm Do *you* want to pay the bandwidth and hosting bill for putting that image online? 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 13:03:46 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Peter L. Wargo) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 11:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME In-Reply-To: <03e501c1490d$2da44f70$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: > I hate to say it Bill, but you found out what millions of Bay Area residents > already knew. Fry's is notorious for bait-n-switch operations - as well as > questionable advertising. Yep, we went through this with a 13" TV/VCR for my den - We picked the one we wanted off the shelf, they went and got the box, we took it home. Upon opening it, I found that it was *totally* different than the one on the shelf. "Oh yeah, they changed that model" Well, why have it on display? We finally got them to give us a much more expensive one that had the feature I needed (dual video-in) for the same price. It's the last time I went to Fry's. I hate to say it, but CompUSA is much better at customer service around here - I am always treated professionally, refunds are never a problem, and at least at the one I go to, the Mac headz are knowledgable enough *not* to inspire my wrath.) (Scares me to think that I was woking with Macs when somee of them were still wearing diapers.) -P From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 15:24:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 15:24:32 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Fry's makes good. Message-ID: <20010929152432.L2460@mrbill.net> First, sorry for the crosspost to both geeks & rescue, but I was *really* pissed this morning. Anyway, everything has been resolved. See my followup message to austin.general: ---- After the debacle this morning, I decided to call Fry's up around 1pm and see if they had the OS X 10.1 upgrade, or at least see what they said. I called, got to the Software department, and asked about the 10.1 *upgrade* kit. "Sir, is your name on the list?" "yes, I was one of the people there at 9am this morning" "Okay, if your name is on the list, please come back by; we have sixty copies and one is being held for you. I severely apologize for this morning. Just come by to the software department, tell us your name, and we'll get your upgrade kit." So, I got the wife and the truck and we headed down there. Walked in, got to the software department. Gave them my name, they checked it off the list, and handed me the OSX 10.1 upgrade kit and a penny. Why the penny? The price marked on the price tag was $0.01, so they could have a trackable inventory and I could have a receipt to show for it at the door. Went to the register, handed them the kit, they scanned it, the lady went "a penny?" and I handed her the penny, she gave me my receipt, and we left. 8-) On the way out, I talked to the guy at the door, and he explained what happened this morning. "All these people this morning, I was like "have a good day", but they were telling me off and cussing. I decided to find out what was up, and got a manager. The manager went out and found the box of upgrades in the truck, and got them out - they were here, but nobody had unloaded them from the truck yet. I'm really sorry that you had to come back this afternoon, man." In any case, they reserved the 60 copies or so that they had, for the people who had come in at 9am and then had to leave their name on a list. People that came in later (after the first 60) were put on a list for the next shipment that was coming in on Tuesday. I havent installed it yet, but am doing that next. Just thought I'd update everyone on how things went, and my faith in Fry's is restored. 8-) Pete, Raegan, look for an email from me later today.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 20:12:16 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 20:12:16 -0500 Subject: [geeks] OS X v10.1 - first impressions Message-ID: <20010929201216.I12889@mrbill.net> First thoughts: WOW ITS FAST ITS SNAPPY ITS NOT SLUGGISH ANYMORE I LIKE IT -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 20:33:47 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 21:33:47 -0400 Subject: [geeks] OS X v10.1 - first impressions References: <20010929201216.I12889@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <003601c1494f$f3f44300$0301a8c0@kensportege> I don't recall you ever refering to it a sluggish before... ;^) Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 9:12 PM Subject: [geeks] OS X v10.1 - first impressions > First thoughts: > > WOW > > ITS FAST > > ITS SNAPPY > > ITS NOT SLUGGISH ANYMORE > > I LIKE IT _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 21:04:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 21:04:40 -0500 Subject: [geeks] OS X v10.1 - first impressions In-Reply-To: <003601c1494f$f3f44300$0301a8c0@kensportege> References: <20010929201216.I12889@mrbill.net> <003601c1494f$f3f44300$0301a8c0@kensportege> Message-ID: <20010929210440.P12889@mrbill.net> On Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 09:33:47PM -0400, Ken Hansen wrote: > I don't recall you ever refering to it a sluggish before... ;^) Well, they sped up things like window resize, etc.. I'd say overall its at least a 50-75% performance increase.. and the DVD player is ROCK SOLID. better than the *dedicated stand-alone* DVD player I had for a while.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 22:21:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 23:21:43 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Good for a laugh, if nothing else... Message-ID: <04bd01c1495f$0ac6dc50$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> I gety spam many times daily - the price I pay for having had an email address for several years. I don't complain, I just use my delete key.... Until this came in. I actually fell off my chair laughing - the Compu-Dome is hysterical. Click the link, it'll be worth it in belly laughs alone... This violates nearly every grain of common sense in my body :) ---------------------------- Kurt Huhn IMPORTANT NOTICE! http://www.freelotto.com/offer.asp?offer=22644&id=5568138 - Eliminate harmful cell phone radiation by up to 90% - Protect yourself and those you love for just $28 - Your cell phone could be causing you: > Memory Loss > Fatigue > Concentration Loss > Dizziness > Headaches > Distorted Vision ... AND MORE! From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 23:29:52 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 00:29:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] "Enterprise" References: <20010926205844.K2460@mrbill.net> <065601c146ff$53a6a700$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010926223753.N2460@mrbill.net> <003701c1474e$cde4a720$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> <20010927083509.R2460@mrbill.net> <00cf01c14790$c18d2500$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <3BB69FC0.E725EFF4@avoidant.org> Kurt Huhn wrote: > Word. A new paintball gun is on the priority list though. Gotta get me an > Impulse before I even consider a TiVo - then it has to get by the CFO (my > wife :-). For cheapo TiVo substitute, I use a peecee with a bt848-based video card ($49 @ CopmUSA) and a big hard drive. T'works. ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Sat Sep 29 23:32:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 00:32:45 -0400 Subject: [geeks] dammit. References: Message-ID: <3BB6A06D.3802C9E6@avoidant.org> On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Kris Kirby wrote: > > > > > *Sigh*. The puppy that we've been nursing along since she showed up on our > > doorstep (8/12/01) got hit today. It was quick, and the driver of the car > > did the right thing. condolences. ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 00:08:45 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 01:08:45 -0400 Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME References: <20010929093609.B2460@mrbill.net> <20010929145849.20327.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> <20010929100125.D2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3BB6A8DD.74DEA266@avoidant.org> Bill Bradford wrote: > > Why doesn't Apple offer the upgrade via download? > > People with broadband could probably FTP it pretty > > quickly that way. > > Its at least 450meg. Thats why its a CD set. So? I recently dl'd Solaris for two platforms, and previously there were the countless versions of various BSD's and Linuces beginning with 90M of Slackware from wcarchive.cdrom.com in 1994 over a 14.4 modem. Overnight. Now I can get 650M iso's in less than ten minutes. Solaris for Intel was 4 cd's. Running concurrent downloads had them on my hard drive and burned to cd in less than half an hour. ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 00:12:33 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 01:12:33 -0400 Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME References: <20010929093609.B2460@mrbill.net> <20010929145849.20327.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> <20010929100125.D2460@mrbill.net> <20010929120722.A12576@ekholm.org> <20010929124247.G2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3BB6A9C1.701F0F9D@avoidant.org> Bill Bradford wrote: > Do *you* want to pay the bandwidth and hosting bill for putting that > image online? 8-) I will. I work for a hosting company that has fiber directly into three major pops. Give it to me, baby. Someone make an iso and pass it my way. I'll put it up. ---sambo From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 08:39:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Adam Kropelin) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 09:39:58 -0400 Subject: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME References: <20010929093609.B2460@mrbill.net> <20010929145849.20327.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> <20010929100125.D2460@mrbill.net> <20010929120722.A12576@ekholm.org> <20010929124247.G2460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <026101c149b5$65da2d30$02c8a8c0@kroptech.com> Well, Sun does it for the Solaris CD set, and there's something like five CDs in that... Of course Sun probably has more resources to waste on it. --Adam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] GRRR. FRYS CAN BLOW ME > On Sat, Sep 29, 2001 at 12:07:22PM -0500, Mike Ekholm wrote: > > > Its at least 450meg. Thats why its a CD set. > > Yeah? so what, a 3 or 4 hour download? IMHO they should make ISO's or > > something avalable. > > -Mike Ekholm > > Do *you* want to pay the bandwidth and hosting bill for putting that > image online? 8-) > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 09:22:35 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ross Alexander) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 10:22:35 -0400 Subject: [geeks] dammit. In-Reply-To: ; from kris@catonic.net on Fri, Sep 28, 2001 at 02:49:07AM +0000 References: Message-ID: <20010930102235.C7986@cc175284-a.union1.nj.home.com> * Kris Kirby: > > *Sigh*. The puppy that we've been nursing along since she showed up on our > doorstep (8/12/01) got hit today. My condolences. - Ross Alexander rossalexander at home.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 14:02:03 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Jim Thompson - w3lap) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 15:02:03 -0400 Subject: [geeks] W3LAP Says: The President of the United States needs you! Message-ID: <3BB76C2B.B387224F@america.net> W3LAP Says: The President of the United States needs you! The Office of the Presidential Prayer Team has asked that I relay this information to my friends and colleagues so that it will reach its goal of enlisting 2.8 million people (1% of the population) to pray regularly for the President--especially in our current crisis. I recommend that you join this effort. There is no fee or obligation. Just sign up and you'll receive a window decal in the mail, plus e-mail updates on the specific prayer needs of the President and his Cabinet. To sign up, go to http://www.PresidentialPrayerTeam.org -- Jim Thompson - w3lap From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 15:17:55 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 15:17:55 -0500 Subject: [geeks] hrm Message-ID: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> How to delete this file? I've tried all the normal tricks; quoting, escaping, etc.. -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 15:25:25 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Ekholm) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 15:25:25 -0500 Subject: [geeks] hrm In-Reply-To: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 03:17:55PM -0500 References: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010930152525.A2322@ekholm.org> what shell are you using? ekholm at bigone:/tmp> touch '????' ekholm at bigone:/tmp> ls -l total 1680 -rw-r--r-- 1 ekholm root 0 Sep 30 15:24 ???? -rw------- 1 ekholm root 311448 Sep 28 07:40 dtdbcache_:0 -rw-rw-r-- 1 root sys 10960 Sep 28 07:40 ps_data -rw-r--r-- 1 ekholm root 0 Sep 28 07:41 sdtvolcheck500 -rw-r--r-- 1 ekholm root 4 Sep 28 07:40 speckeysd.lock -rw-rw-r-- 1 root sys 511012 Sep 28 07:40 ups_data ekholm at bigone:/tmp> rm '????' ekholm at bigone:/tmp> ls -l total 1680 -rw------- 1 ekholm root 311448 Sep 28 07:40 dtdbcache_:0 -rw-rw-r-- 1 root sys 10960 Sep 28 07:40 ps_data -rw-r--r-- 1 ekholm root 0 Sep 28 07:41 sdtvolcheck500 -rw-r--r-- 1 ekholm root 4 Sep 28 07:40 speckeysd.lock -rw-rw-r-- 1 root sys 511012 Sep 28 07:40 ups_data this is ksh. On Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 03:17:55PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > How to delete this file? I've tried all the normal tricks; > quoting, escaping, etc.. > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -Mike Ekholm -- UNIX Sys Admin | ekholm at ekholm.org | http://www.ekholm.org | IRC: Nalez ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's hard to find people in society who can administer UNIX and professionally carry a weapon." - Jim Williams, former FBI Computer Intrusion Squad agent From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 15:27:57 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 16:27:57 EDT Subject: [geeks] W3LAP Says: The President of the United States needs you! References: <3BB76C2B.B387224F@america.net> Message-ID: <01380162757.dave.12450@cca.org> w3lap at america.net writes: >W3LAP Says: The President of the United States needs you! >The Office of the Presidential Prayer Team has asked that I relay this >information to my friends and colleagues so that it will reach its goal >of enlisting 2.8 million people (1% of the population) to pray regularly >for the President--especially in our current crisis. I recommend that >you join this effort. There is no fee or obligation. Just sign up and >you'll receive a window decal in the mail, plus e-mail updates on the >specific prayer needs of the President and his Cabinet. The 700 Club was once getting people to call in and pledge to pray at a certain hour every day, so they could have people praying nonstop round the clock. I don't remember what it was for, probably "May God in his infinite mercy kill everyone that doesn't think exactly as we do." or something to that effect. Anyways. I called up to ask how they were normalizing for timezones. They couldn't give me a good answer for that one. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- ------------------------ I like making new friends. ------------------------ -- I make them out of clay and bring them to life with a blood sacrifice. -- From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 15:32:40 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Will Mc Donald) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:32:40 +0100 Subject: [geeks] hrm References: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <004101c149ef$203e9bf0$0301a8c0@chimp> In bash... rm ?[TAB] [ENTER] does the job nicely. :) It actually expands to... rm \?\?\?\?\? See this output. [root at fw tset]# ls [root at fw tset]# touch ????? [root at fw tset]# ll total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Sep 30 21:28 ????? [root at fw tset]# rm \?\?\?\?\? rm: remove `?????'? yes [root at fw tset]# ll total 0 [root at fw tset]# rm \?\?\?\?\? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 9:17 PM Subject: [geeks] hrm > How to delete this file? I've tried all the normal tricks; > quoting, escaping, etc.. > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 15:34:04 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 15:34:04 -0500 Subject: [geeks] hrm In-Reply-To: <004101c149ef$203e9bf0$0301a8c0@chimp> References: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> <004101c149ef$203e9bf0$0301a8c0@chimp> Message-ID: <20010930153404.Y12889@mrbill.net> On Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 09:32:40PM +0100, Will Mc Donald wrote: > In bash... > rm ?[TAB] [ENTER] > does the job nicely. :) If its the only file in the directory. Its not. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 15:34:41 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 16:34:41 EDT Subject: [geeks] hrm References: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <01380163441.dave.12154@cca.org> mrbill at mrbill.net writes: >How to delete this file? I've tried all the normal tricks; >quoting, escaping, etc.. >-rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? Single quotes. And for future reference, if you run across something so weird even single quoting won't get it, a one-line C program will do the trick. -------- David Fischer --------- dave at cca.org --------- www.cca.org -------- ------------------------ I like making new friends. ------------------------ -- I make them out of clay and bring them to life with a blood sacrifice. -- From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 15:45:14 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 15:45:14 -0500 Subject: [geeks] hrm In-Reply-To: <0109302147091C.12160@raquel.hmv.net> References: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> <0109302147091C.12160@raquel.hmv.net> Message-ID: <20010930154514.Z12889@mrbill.net> On Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 09:47:09PM +0100, Mike Meredith wrote: > On Sunday 30 September 2001 21:17, you wrote: > > How to delete this file? I've tried all the normal tricks; > > quoting, escaping, etc.. > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? > What about 'rm -i *' ? That did it. What was even stranger was this: [localhost:/] root# ls -al total 1368329 < - snip junk -> -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? [localhost:/] root# ls '?????' ls: ?????: No such file or directory Maybe its just a MacOS X-weird-isim. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 15:47:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Meredith) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:47:09 +0100 Subject: [geeks] hrm In-Reply-To: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> References: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <0109302147091C.12160@raquel.hmv.net> On Sunday 30 September 2001 21:17, you wrote: > How to delete this file? I've tried all the normal tricks; > quoting, escaping, etc.. > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? What about 'rm -i *' ? From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 15:54:31 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:54:31 +0100 Subject: [geeks] hrm In-Reply-To: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 03:17:55PM -0500 References: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010930215430.A13433@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 03:17:55PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > How to delete this file? I've tried all the normal tricks; > quoting, escaping, etc.. > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? rm -i * and say no to everything apart from that file, perhaps? -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Do not be afraid of cooking, as your ingredients will know and misbehave -- Fergus Henderson From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 16:00:09 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (David Cantrell) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 22:00:09 +0100 Subject: [geeks] hrm In-Reply-To: <20010930154514.Z12889@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 03:45:14PM -0500 References: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> <0109302147091C.12160@raquel.hmv.net> <20010930154514.Z12889@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010930220008.C13433@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> On Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 03:45:14PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? > > Maybe its just a MacOS X-weird-isim. Errm, it might have been something important, like whatever fucked up madness they do to emulate resource forks and desktop things ... -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david The voices said it's a good day to clean my weapons From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 16:12:18 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 17:12:18 -0400 Subject: [geeks] DMCA strikes again? Message-ID: <058901c149f4$996dead0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Being an avid paintball player, I've also been known to dabble in airsoft collecting. Recently, in order to fund the purchase of a new paintball gun, I decided to sell one of my airsoft pistols - a Glock knockoff made by KWC (Kein Well Corp, Taiwan). I listed it on eBay, and bidding was pretty fierce - it reached $60 from a $14.95 starting price within 3 days. I thought it was odd, but didn't complain. At 10PM on the third day of the listing I recieve an email from eBay, exeprted below: ----------------------- We regret to inform you that your listing: 1010959360 KWC Glock 17 gas airsoft replica has been ended at the request of Glock, Inc., a member of eBay's Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program, because they filed a sworn statement that it offers a product or contains material which violates their copyright, trademark or other rights. In the interest of protecting all eBay users, we end such listings to avoid any association with potentially infringing or unlawful items. ------------------------ So, says I, WTF!!? I mean, what copyright? The pistol carries no Glock logos, and certainly doesn't pretend to be a 9mm handgun. All Glock logos are replaced with KWC logos, and the Austrian emblem on the side does not exist on the KWC lookalike. After some research, I find that there are *no* Glock lookalikes available for sale inside the US, with the exception of a Japanese maker, KSC. KSC makes fine replicas, and has licensed the use of the Glock logo from Glock, Inc (I also own one of these). Further research reveals that websites that *did* offer Glock replicas from various compaines, no longer do - and none will talk about why. One site, Tapco.com, simply states that they are no longer being imported. However, KWC is still importing several other replicas and lookalikes - including tons of Colt 1911 knockoffs. So the company is still in business, just not importing anything even remotely Glock-ish. In fact, they still produce Glock knockoffs - they just never make it to the US. Glock, and the agent that requested the auction be ended, have yet to respond to emails and phone calls. Hmmmmmm....... It used to be that copyright laws were very clear cut, and something was allowed to *resemble* another product, as long as logos and trademarked markings were not used. I suspect, that import laws allowed KWC (and other companies) to import Glock look-alikes, because not a single one carried the Glock logo - despite resembling the overall shape of a Glock. Could it be that Glock has invoked the broad powers of the DMCA and stopped import of anything that resembles a Glock - save for licensed trademark users like KSC? This is a *very* recent developement, and seems to fall within the last 3 months... What would Glock, Inc hope to gain from taking this action? Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 16:21:54 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 14:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] hrm In-Reply-To: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010930212154.15825.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> by inode number? Ken --- Bill Bradford wrote: > How to delete this file? I've tried all the normal > tricks; > quoting, escaping, etc.. > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 > ????? > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 16:24:43 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Meredith) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 22:24:43 +0100 Subject: [geeks] hrm In-Reply-To: <20010930154514.Z12889@mrbill.net> References: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> <0109302147091C.12160@raquel.hmv.net> <20010930154514.Z12889@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <0109302224431D.12160@raquel.hmv.net> On Sunday 30 September 2001 21:45, you wrote: > What was even stranger was this: > ls: ?????: No such file or directory Possibly a GNU ls weirdism. I think it displays control characters as '?'. From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 16:29:35 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Meredith) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 22:29:35 +0100 Subject: [geeks] hrm In-Reply-To: <20010930220008.C13433@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> References: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> <20010930154514.Z12889@mrbill.net> <20010930220008.C13433@linux-laptop.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <0109302229351E.12160@raquel.hmv.net> On Sunday 30 September 2001 22:00, you wrote: > On Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 03:45:14PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? > > > > Maybe its just a MacOS X-weird-isim. > > Errm, it might have been something important, like whatever fucked up > madness they do to emulate resource forks and desktop things ... Nope. All that weirdness is done with directories. From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 16:31:15 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Ken Hansen) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 14:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] DMCA strikes again? In-Reply-To: <058901c149f4$996dead0$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> Message-ID: <20010930213115.31672.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com> After much snippage, I comment below... Ken --- Kurt Huhn wrote: > Being an avid paintball player, I've also been known > to dabble in airsoft > collecting. Recently, in order to fund the purchase > of a new paintball gun, > I decided to sell one of my airsoft pistols - a > Glock knockoff made by KWC > (Kein Well Corp, Taiwan). > > I listed it on eBay, and bidding was pretty fierce - > What would Glock, Inc hope to gain from taking this > action? I think Glock is: a) Protecting their product, and all trade marks, service marks, and design (aka look and feel, thanks Apple!) b) The requirements to have an item dropped by eBay are quite low I imagine - they seem to put all responsibility on the owner of the rights - they (eBay) are only acting as a "tool" of the rights holder (the sworn deposition makes the rights holder liable for any violations, and holds eBay blameless I assume) - but IANAL. c) Glock is *probably* within their rights to fight sales of knock-offs. The way around this is to not use any words that describe it as a "Glock" or similar to a "Glock" - they can't check every sale! Also, consider a 3-day auction (get in and out quickly). Do you have any info on the bidders? Try for a private sale if you do... Ken ===== Ken n2vip at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 16:55:27 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 17:55:27 -0400 Subject: [geeks] DMCA strikes again? References: <20010930213115.31672.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <05b401c149fa$a0adc940$2002a8c0@TRIUMPH> > a) Protecting their product, and all trade marks, > service marks, and design (aka look and feel, > thanks Apple!) > That's where I take exception. The goddamn look-n-feel complaint. Maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong. All I know is that corporations with lawyers seem to have more ability to make national policy than elected officials and the people they (supposedly) represent. Up until recently, these imitations/knockoffs/look-alikes were all over the place - legally! I mean, it's not like they're competing with Glock for handgun sales... I could be wrong, but I really don't like the look-n-feel feel complaint - unless it can be proven that the offending product/manufacturer was attempting to steal customers from a copyright holder company through subversive advertising and product design methods. > Do you have any info on the bidders? Try for a private > sale if you do... > Unfortunately, eBay completely wiped any record of the auction from their databases. that means, I can't try to contact any of the bidders because I don't have any record of who was bidding. Bleagh.... I've also been threatened with being suspeded from eBay if I relist the item without permission from Glock, Inc. To suddenly make it illegal to have or sell an item due to a new law goes against everything I know and love about the US. For instance - I own, can sell, and can buy all sorts of high capacity magazines for firearms - as long as they were produced and originally sold before the ATF hi-cap magazine ban took effect. Perfectly legal. I'm not allowed to manufacture any, or own any manufactured after the ban though. That's like saying that I wouldn't be allowed to sell an e-Machines or Gateway all-in-one computer because they resemble an iMac. Anyone know if this is actually the case? Kurt From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 17:58:39 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 17:58:39 -0500 Subject: [geeks] OSX 10.1 available, etc Message-ID: <20010930175839.B12889@mrbill.net> For those of you *who are not able* to get the OS X 10.1 upgrade CD in your area, I"ll have an ISO available for download later this evening. I've also got a .dmg of the 10.1 development tools disc, which doesent come with the upgrade - only the 10.1 full set. Please email me directly (off-list) if you need access. Note: I'm only providing this as a courtesy to people who need it and cant get it otherwise; I'm taking it down once everyone I know of that needs it, has it. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 18:02:32 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Chris Byrne) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 00:02:32 +0100 Subject: [geeks] hrm References: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> <0109302147091C.12160@raquel.hmv.net> <20010930154514.Z12889@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <002a01c14a04$0036cac0$03aca5c2@deepthought> That's also one of the signatures of a rootkit for solaris I saw about a year ago. I cant recall the name of it at the moment but the guy who got in was good. He ended up getting into one of our proramming contractors through a vulnerability in the SSHD they were using and setting up a keystroke logger. Then he hit our systems. We were able to isolate him to three systems unfortunately one of them was our firewall management server, which meant we had to rebuild the ENTIRE damned security management architecture from known good read only media (you dont screw around with something like this), it took almost six weeks to get everything fixed. Chris Byrne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 21:45 Subject: Re: [geeks] hrm > On Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 09:47:09PM +0100, Mike Meredith wrote: > > On Sunday 30 September 2001 21:17, you wrote: > > > How to delete this file? I've tried all the normal tricks; > > > quoting, escaping, etc.. > > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? > > What about 'rm -i *' ? > > That did it. > > What was even stranger was this: > > [localhost:/] root# ls -al > total 1368329 > < - snip junk -> > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? > [localhost:/] root# ls '?????' > ls: ?????: No such file or directory > > Maybe its just a MacOS X-weird-isim. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 18:14:58 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Mike Ekholm) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 18:14:58 -0500 Subject: [geeks] hrm In-Reply-To: <20010930154514.Z12889@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 03:45:14PM -0500 References: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> <0109302147091C.12160@raquel.hmv.net> <20010930154514.Z12889@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010930181458.B2322@ekholm.org> the file could have been '????? ' its fun to pipe ls output through od -c and find spaces. On Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 03:45:14PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 09:47:09PM +0100, Mike Meredith wrote: > > On Sunday 30 September 2001 21:17, you wrote: > > > How to delete this file? I've tried all the normal tricks; > > > quoting, escaping, etc.. > > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? > > What about 'rm -i *' ? > > That did it. > > What was even stranger was this: > > [localhost:/] root# ls -al > total 1368329 > < - snip junk -> > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? > [localhost:/] root# ls '?????' > ls: ?????: No such file or directory > > Maybe its just a MacOS X-weird-isim. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -Mike Ekholm -- UNIX Sys Admin | ekholm at ekholm.org | http://www.ekholm.org | IRC: Nalez ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's hard to find people in society who can administer UNIX and professionally carry a weapon." - Jim Williams, former FBI Computer Intrusion Squad agent From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 19:11:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Rob) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 20:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] hrm In-Reply-To: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> Message-ID: rm -- \?\?\?\?\? This ought to fix your problem. - Rob On Sun, 30 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > How to delete this file? I've tried all the normal tricks; > quoting, escaping, etc.. > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From geeks at sunhelp.org Sun Sep 30 19:11:59 2001 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (Rob) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 20:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] hrm In-Reply-To: <20010930151755.X12889@mrbill.net> Message-ID: rm -- \?\?\?\?\? This ought to fix your problem. - Rob On Sun, 30 Sep 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > How to delete this file? I've tried all the normal tricks; > quoting, escaping, etc.. > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Sep 24 01:15 ????? > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > Austin, TX > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks >